Fallout 3: Official Forums Opened!

Borys

Banned
That's right Fallout fans - the official Fallout 3 forums can be found on Bethesda's site:

http://www.bethsoft.com/bgsforums/index.php?showforum=32

They have 2 different forums one for Fallout 3 and one for past Fallout games (just like with TES series).

Obli\/i0n with gUnZ?
Dumbed down, consolized crap?
Or maybe better than Fallout 2?

LET YOUR VOICE BE HEARD

EDIT: The NMA & RPG Codex guys are already wrecking havoc there :lol
EDIT 2: Steve Meister is the lead programmer? Neat-o.
 
I love rpg codex members :lol

edit: bethesda doesn't care whatever the hell happens with the finished product
it will sell. that's all that will count.
 
This is pretty interesting:

A few weeks ago, Kieron Gillen predicted that Fallout 3 “will disappoint Fallout fans and delight everyone else”. He questioned why Bethesda bought the license if they could have an easier time of it just developing their own post-apocalyptic RPG from scratch. Why bother with a sequel if the fans of the series will be disappointed? His conclusion: “Bethesda are just dirty big Fallout fans and would love to play in the Sandbox.”

I think there’s more to it than that; ultimately, Bethesda needs Fallout. What’s more, they need Fallout 3 to please the fans. They didn’t need Fallout before announcing they had started work on the game, but they do now. It’s quite a journey getting to that conclusion, but take a seat next to this burning oil drum, help yourself to some rotgut… well, it’s mostly rotgut; don’t worry about the lumps… and let me explain.

There’s a fundamental key that any developer or publisher bravely striding into the Fallout universe should know, and if they don’t, they’ll learn it by the time their game is released: Fallout is all about the fans. The decent games stopped coming almost ten years ago; what’s left is a fanbase that’s notorious amongst geek and gaming culture for being rabid, mutated, angry, discordant, for infighting and for being argumentative and perverse.

If Beth doesn't want Fallout 3 to follow Deus Ex: Invisible War or Thief 3 or Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel steps (meaning: LOW SALES) they should listen to Fallout fans.

Makes sense, at least to me.
 
Also the official TEASER SITE is open:

http://fallout.bethsoft.com/

Poster-768.jpg
 
Jefklak said:
I love rpg codex members :lol
Very. Their stuff is awesome to read. It speaks to my soul.
the "Why it'll be a disaster" thread said:
Let's fondly remember Fallout 1 and 2.

They were dirty. They were bloody. They were ugly, intensely atmospheric, mature and pleasantly complex. Not complex in the way of AD&D 3rd Ed., mind you - the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system actually made sense and was a blast to build your character in.

Remind you of anything?

Oh yeah - that would be the early Bethsoft products. You know - Arena, Daggerfall, even Morrowind (to a degree). So maybe you couldn't pick the "bloody mess" trait - but may I remind you of The (unabridged) Real Barenziah. Neither Fallout series nor early TES were exactly family friendly, and nor were they simplistic enough to appeal to the mouth-breathing, ADD-ridden console crowd.

Fallout said:
"Your attack rips through the Wasteland Dweller's midsection. Her childbearing days are over as she collapses in a limp heap"
 
Even if some of the doomsday rants I've seen around come true, it's still better than nothing I figure. Don't get me wrong, I want a true Fallout sequel that rocks the 2nd game in every way. But I'll definitely take a more sandboxy first or third person Fallout RPG over no Fallout at all.

And, you know, at least it's not a consolized Counter Strike 2.0.....
 
pc/360/ps3 ?

Im hoping the game is third person though...I enjoy what Ive played of oblivion so far...but I much prefer third person

very cool artwork!

peace
 
nelsonroyale said:
pc/360/ps3 ?

Im hoping the game is third person though...I enjoy what Ive played of oblivion so far...but I much prefer third person

peace

You'd be a valuable poster on NMA.
 
The NMA & RPG Codex guys are already wrecking havoc there

Nice to see people holding the fort for the Fallout series IMO (I to fear that Bethesta might drop the ball completely), even though they are easily comparable to the Gestapo at times.
 
There's also some insightful stuff there, between the flames:
Bethesda aren't exactly well-known for their amazing writing or stories.. and their NPC's are the laughing stock of the RPG genre. That's what "hard core Fallout fanatics" should worry about, not which view the camera takes or if they'll actually have to care about participating in the combat this time.
I agree 100%.
 
So I'm a complete fallout noob... But I'm curious, what are the core qualities of a true fallout game that if Bethesda changed, would cause Fallout 3 not to be "true Fallout game" in spirit? Basically, what makes fallout what it is?
 
Geoff9920 said:
So I'm a complete fallout noob... But I'm curious, what are the core qualities of a true fallout game that if Bethesda changed, would cause Fallout 3 not to be "true Fallout game" in spirit? Basically, what makes fallout what it is?

The storyline, dialogue, npc's, etc. A lot of us, while we may like Oblivion, don't think Bethesda is up to the task of writing a game that is true to Fallout.
 
The "NPC INTERACTION" thread there is awesome. It sums up my feelings on Oblivion NP"C"s perfectly:
"They sell guns at Bob's Guns!"

"They sure do!"

"Bye!"

----

"After 40 years living in this radioactive wasteland, I've become unable to cope with the pain of existence. Tomorrow I'm going to wander out into the desert to get torn apart by a Deathclaw and just end it all."

"I've heard others say the same!"

"Bye!"
 
Durante said:
There's also some insightful stuff there, between the flames:
I agree 100%.

TES is know for lore (where most of the story lies), not it's thousands of NPCs. Morrowind's and Tribunal's stories were very good and well written, by the way.

TES has a ridiculously large game scope. Lots of NPCs, large cities, lots of books, lots of dungeons, guilds, world areas etc. There's so much that of course it's quality suffers. Jesus H! It's a huge sprawling mess, and it's great in it's own way.

Fallout has a very small, dense scope. Few things to do, but the quality is high. Quests branch, dialogue branches. Most of the small NPC population spouts one-liners, but the few who have dialogue (and the even fewer who have voice acting) are excellent for the most part.

The two games have a polar opposite scope. Just because Bethesda has made nothing but TES with it's huge great mess, doesn't mean they can't make a small, but dense and excellent game. Same goes or a different developer vice versa.

If you don't understand why TES is weak in certain areas, and why Bethesda isn't incapable of doing something else with different strengths, well then **** it. You're not worth any time.
 
Clevinger said:
The two games have a polar opposite scope. Just because Bethesda has made nothing but TES with it's huge great mess, doesn't mean they can't make a small, but dense and excellent game. Same goes or a different developer vice versa.
You have a very positive attitude. That's great for you. Watch out that you don't get too disappointed.

It's not just a question of scale. It's a question of immersion and honest world-building. May I remind you that there's not a single child in vanilla Morrowind or Oblivion.
 
Wow that is some no restraint, balls-to-the-wall trolling going on. Too bad much of it is wasted-the Bethesda haters/RPGCodex Neanderthals far outnumber any actual fans of Bethesda and Fallout.

Let me help with the COMMUNITY FAQ:

Q: What is NMA?
A: No Mutants Allowed. It's a forum for people who hate other people. I hear some of them like this "Fallout" game. (thanks to a poster on QT3 for this quote).
 
Durante said:
You have a very positive attitude. That's great for you. Watch out that you don't get too disappointed.

It's not just a question of scale. It's a question of immersion and honest world-building. May I remind you that there's not a single child in vanilla Morrowind or Oblivion.

It's not a positive attitude, it's open-mindedness. I don't care either way. I loved both Fallout games, but if Fallout 3 is a bad game or if it's a bad Fallout game, you know what? I won't buy it, I'll say "oh well", and then I'll move the **** on.


No children? Is this seriously something we criticize in games now? Children really affect your immersion? Does not being able to have a child also effect your immersion? Not getting pregnant?
 
Durante said:
It's not just a question of scale. It's a question of immersion and honest world-building. May I remind you that there's not a single child in vanilla Morrowind or Oblivion.

Goodness knows Fallout needs children! I mean, one of the oft-mentioned features of the game is the ability to shoot a kid in the crotch with a rocket launcher simply because you feel like it. That's roleplaying according to strict NMA/RPGCodex guidelines!

I have faith that Bethesda will put together a great, detailed living world with no soul and a completely tattered, incoherent narrative. There's no point in going there and talking about it, though-Bethesda is going to make the game they want to make, and all the whining and complaining about the kind of game they are going to make doesn't matter, because in the end they are the ones that will determine how the future of the franchise looks-it's their baby now.
 
MightyHedgehog said:
?

Fallout was already a sandbox. Wasteland was a sandbox. Lots of games were sandbox before sandbox even knew it was sandbox.

I have faith in Bethsoft.

I've never played the originals, but the storyline and premise intrigues me. I love Bethesda so that's got me more interested.
 
Clevinger said:
No children? Is this seriously something we criticize in games now? Children really affect your immersion? Does not being able to have a child also effect your immersion? Not getting pregnant?
That's not a good argument. Not being given the choice to have a child is completely different in magnitude and required suspension of disbelief compared to being presented with a - otherwise purportedly realistic - world in which there is not a single child - without even the slightest hint of an explanation.

:lol
 
Fragamemnon said:
Wow that is some no restraint, balls-to-the-wall trolling going on. Too bad much of it is wasted-the Bethesda haters/RPGCodex Neanderthals far outnumber any actual fans of Bethesda and Fallout.

I wish Bethesda would just make a 360 exclusive multiplayer-only deathmatch Fallout 3. Then the fans could see how bad it could be.
 
Durante said:
That's not a good argument. Not being given the choice to have a child is completely different in magnitude and required suspension of disbelief compared to being presented with a - otherwise purportedly realistic - world in which there is not a single child - without even the slightest hint of an explanation.

:lol

The explanation would be twice the work with little benefit. You'd double animations and meshes for children. Add clothes skins for children. Add dialogue/voice acting for children. For what? So Durante could go, "Hmm, there are children in this game and not in most others. Immersion up, Bethesda. Immersion, up."
 
I'm sure you knew this, but I was obviously talking about a lore-based explanation. The real-world reasons are easy to understand. (Though I believe you forgot "Jack Thompson" on your list)

Also, when you say that most other games don't have children, you are right - but that doesn't mean it reduces their immersiveness. Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines, for example, is a very immersive game without any children - you just wouldn't expect any to be around in the environments portrayed. TES games, OTOH, try to simulate whole towns, for months. That makes it ever so slightly harder to swallow.

I guess I should mention that I was a big Bethsoft fan until Oblivion, and still like them well enough. I just don't believe they have it in them to produce dialog even remotely as compelling as most in the Fallout games. But we'll see.
 
What's with the need for children? I mean, my favorite game of all time, Wasteland, has children you can kill (right from the first few minutes actually), but that never struck me as important, I guess.
 
Durante said:
I'm sure you knew this, but I was obviously talking about a lore-based explanation. The real-world reasons are easy to understand. (Though I believe you forgot "Jack Thompson" on your list)

Also, when you say that most other games don't have children, you are right - but that doesn't mean it reduces their immersiveness. Vampire The Masquerade - Bloodlines, for example, is a very immersive game without any children - you just wouldn't expect any to be around in the environments portrayed. TES games, OTOH, try to simulate whole towns, for months. That makes it ever so slightly harder to swallow.

I guess I should mention that I was a big Bethsoft fan until Oblivion, and still like them well enough. I just don't believe they have it in them to produce dialog even remotely as compelling as most in the Fallout games. But we'll see.

Seems like nitpicking, but I understand a little. I've never had small things like that effect my judgement of a game, maybe I'm abnormal. For instance, I never looked at Bloodlines and said, "All that shit happened in one night???"/"Why does the night never end? Shouldn't I sleep soon?"
 
Needs 3 things for me:

-Immersive atmosphere.
-Violence and mature dialogues.
-GREAT sidequests.

Don't care about 3rd person view or first.

I would love to see this game like a mix of The Fall: LDoG and Vampire Bloodlines.
 
Clevinger said:
"All that shit happened in one night???"/"Why does the night never end? Shouldn't I sleep soon?"
See, I did think exactly that. Many times during the game.

But I agree that those details aren't even that important, most games - even those based around immersion - have many such glaring inconsistencies. If they can just get the characters, dialogs and writing right, and make quests that can be solved by more than just fighting, I'll be exceedingly joyful. I'm not the kind of fan that will only accept isometric turn-based battles. My problem is that I don't trust Bethsoft with those bare fundamentals. I hope you are right and they just need some focus.
 
if they have the levelling system of oblivion i will cry. Same with constant dungeon/cave quests. It needs to be mature, have all the gore and dark humour of the original games. I could deal with it being first person too. Just dont dumb it down Oblivion style please Bethesda :(
 
I'm really worried about the future of the fallout series. If the game is devoid of any of the black humor, retro 50's style, brutal violence, or post apocalyptic immersive atmosphere it fails in my book....Bethesda has a tall order to fill and I don't think they have what it takes to pull it off.

I'd much rather see this in Bioware's hands IMO
 
indie hands > bioware hands
check planewalker games or vault dwellers own game
I can see bioware making it an action RPG with their mass effect engine just like bethesda. Urgh²

Too late for all that, let's instead Play & enjoy arcanum
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
I'm really worried about the future of the fallout series. If the game is devoid of any of the black humor, retro 50's style, brutal violence, or post apocalyptic immersive atmosphere it fails in my book....Bethesda has a tall order to fill and I don't think they have what it takes to pull it off.

I'd much rather see this in Bioware's hands IMO
I can understand being apprehensive over it possibly not meeting expectations, but why would Bethsoft get rid of the very things the property is defined by (black humor, retro look, violent combat, atmosphere)? They paid a pretty penny for it, after all. Seems like a lot of excessive hand-wringing on those points.
 
Durante said:
Nah. Troika. But that train left long ago, no use crying about it now.

Yeah but at the very least Bioware is a more competent storytelling group...I mean that's their 'thing' whereas Bethesda had some pretty graphics in Oblivion and it was a huge world but I've never cared for their stories or their gameplay in any of their games I've played.

I can understand being apprehensive over it possibly not meeting expectations, but why would Bethsoft get rid of the very things the property is defined by (black humor, retro look, violent combat, atmosphere)? They paid a pretty penny for it, after all.

AFAIK they've never done anything remotely close to something like this which is why I'm worried they'll make this "Post Apocalyptic Oblivion" (to use an oversimplification)
 
ElectricBlue187 said:
AFAIK they've never done anything remotely close to something like this which is why I'm worried they'll make this "Post Apocalyptic Oblivion"
I'd give Bethsoft more credit than that. Just because you haven't seen them do it doesn't mean they won't come through nicely. I mean, I'd be more worried if they had done a post-apocalyptic RPG before and royally screwed it up in ways you mention. That would give me cause for alarm.
 
Honestly, I think the Fallout games are highly overrated. They are great games, but not equal to the Black Isle games, the Gold Box series or other landmark PC games like Planescape:Torment.

If the post-apocalyptic setting was represented (in amount of games) like the traditional D&D setting for the PC ... Fallout would just be a small footnote from the 90's. I mean, when you talk about that genre, there is Fallout and Wasteland and not much else. It's such a rich, exciting setting to use as a backdrop in your games .. I'm surprised it hasn't been used more in the past 20 years.


With the sad state of western RPGs, I am just pumped that it's a single player experience. Hopefully, it doesn't have cruddy NPC issues like it's predecessors did.
 
ToxicAdam said:
Honestly, I think the Fallout games are highly overrated. They are great games, but not equal to the Black Isle games, the Gold Box series or other landmark PC games like Planescape:Torment.
I tend to agree, but those games are still quite good.

If the post-apocalyptic setting was represented (in amount of games) like the traditional D&D setting for the PC ... Fallout would just be a small footnote from the 90's. I mean, when you talk about that genre, there is Fallout and Wasteland and not much else. It's such a rich, exciting setting to use as a backdrop in your games .. I'm surprised it hasn't been used more in the past 20 years.
Sadly, there aren't enough titles that want to explore that setting. I think it has to do with the real-life end of the Cold War and the theme kinda falling out of favor with the general populace.

With the sad state of western RPGs, I am just pumped that it's a single player experience. Hopefully, it doesn't have cruddy NPC issues like it's predecessors did.
Well, Troika was kind of singular in that regard (if you're talking about scripting issues and buggy shit :lol)... Fallout 2 could've used stronger NPC action, but was still a very nice step up. I want the game to be party based...more like the tactical battling of Wasteland. Hell, even Fallout Tactics came closer to Wasteland, in that regard, than Fallout 1 or 2 ever did. Too bad MicroForte didn't put in cities (with missions and subplots and such) or just place all missions on a single, contiguous world, like Jagged Alliance or something.
 
Prime crotch said:
Great then we could have another buggy mess like Arcanum. I love Troika but they can't code for shit.

Oh please, cut the bull talk
there were bugs, but on my 5+ playthroughs (pretty hardcore eh :rolleyes: ), I never ever encountered one. Besides from the obvious not so finished quest here and there - blame the publisher, not the developer. Read the interview @ rpgcodex.com about Cain and co. why most people complained about "bugs". It's because in Arcanum, everything reacts on everything, and that's pretty hard to debug. Nothing in terms of NPC reaction has been scripted.

Killing a random guy in a bar might get your ass kicked in one place, and might not impress anybody in another town. The bartender may be reliefed 'cause he hated that client anyway, or scared and run off to the police. The dark looking dwarf in the corner may be raging with madness since it's his brother you killed, or may not give a shit. Or may go to his friends, and you can't finish a side quest because you've upset his family.

Edit: damn can't find the interview, give me a couple of minutes
Edit2: http://rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=130

Regular game idea:

What the player experiences: You were told that the wealthy owner of the Inn can help you find the buried treasure. You walk into a bar. The bartender greets you with a fine "Hello Stranger! Come and enjoy a pint of ale on the house!" You will notice that you when you click on anyone else in the room you get a generic "good day sir", you certainly can't attack anyone, and if the game let you fire off an explosive spell, it wouldn't do any damage in room and no one would notice that anything had happened. You talk to the inn keeper and he says if you give him 10 gold, he'll give you the map to the secret treasure! So you do.

What the developers were thinking: Well, this has to be this way, right? I mean, the bartender has knowledge that keeps the quest moving along so we can't kill him. And what if we attacked someone else in the corner of the bar? We couldn't have that because it would look strange if the people just sat there! And I mean, c'mon, if you can kill this guy, wouldn't that mean you can kill the others too? Oh plus, our publisher informed us yesterday that we have to take out all the kids in the game because we can't sell the game in Germany if it has kid killing. Yeah..... killing people in a friendly town is out of the question.


Troika game:

What the player experiences: You walk into a bar. The bartender greets you with a fine "Hello Stranger! Come and enjoy a pint of ale on the house!" At this point, you shoot an arrow through his neck.... he drops dead, the bar maid and most of the patrons freak out and run for the door... You laugh maniacally until you notice some guy in the corner (who happens to be the bartenders' brother in law enjoying a pint himself) unsheathing his vorpal sword and coming after you with bloody vengeance in his eyes... You kill him too and take his sword. You search the inn and find a key underneath a bottle of whiskey behind the bar. The key opens a lockbox upstairs in his room where you find a map.

What Troika was thinking: Hey, what if I want to shoot the bartender? Yeah, I hate those stereo-typical jolly fat bartender guys. It'll be more trouble, but we'll make sure you can get the map some how. For the people in the room, we'll have them check against your faction and skills, if you attack anyone, they will determine if they are scared, hostile, or unmoved by your actions. If they are scared they'll run, hostile they'll attack, and unmoved they will just sit there drinking a beer while all hell breaks loose. Yeah, we should put at least on guy in the bar who's tough as nails. The tough quiet dude who calmly drinks his beer... The guy you DO NOT want to mess with. Yeah, and if you kill anyone in this inn, the cops in town will attack you on sight. The more neutral shopkeepers will still sell to you, but they will jack the prices up because even they think you are a cold blooded killer.


Now, the Troika way is much more difficult to implement. All RPG fans will notice that Troika games are often times buggy. The Troika way is much harder to test because of all of the possibilities within the game and the level. When the game is near completion and you need another few months to make sure it's tight and bug free, the publisher will rarely give you the time or money to make it happen. Many times, Publishers underestimate how difficult it is to test a game this open ended and they don't give you proper testing resources. This was the case for Arcanum and Temple for sure.
 
Yeah, yeah people say the same thing when talking about Oblivion as well when people complain about the deadbrain AI. For the record I liked Arcanum, but I would have loved it if it weren't for the interface and the terrible battle system, which btw was even worse than Fallout's.
Even Bloodlines, my favorite RPG of that year, had sloppy coding or design that got in the way of enjoying the game.
 
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