The opposite is happening. The more Denuvo is developed, the more crackers are fading away due to the time commitments to get games to work.
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Far Cry: Primal & Rise of the Tomb Raider Will Be Protected By Denuvo Anti-Tamper
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
The opposite is happening. The more Denuvo is developed, the more crackers are fading away due to the time commitments to get games to work.
CecilRousso
Member
Ok, that seems to pretty much confirm that Denuvo has it's own server depency, and is Securom MKII. Good to know. Then I will treat Denuvo games like I treated Securom games.
That you can be locked out from your game for longer periods of time actually makes it worse then Securom.
Shuggananas
Banned
tringworldso
Member
Denuvo is actually an evolution of Securom made by former members of it so some of the shady crap it pulls off should not surprise anyone.
http://www.denuvo.com/
Right now there's no evidence it installs anything. It's an anti-tamper for the .exe, it doesn't extend beyond that.
Starbuck2907
Member
Give it time. The more popular this stuff becomes, the bigger of a target it becomes for the hacker community.
All these new games using it will only increase the number of folks working to crack it.
All these new games using it will only increase the number of folks working to crack it.
TheLegendOfMart
Banned
Denuvo has been reported in The Division as well. Expect it in a lot of upcoming Ubisoft releases and probably elsewhere as well.
Only reason I'm against Denuvo is the potential to stop the PC modding community that helps these games flourish well after release.
Preorder cancelled.
Fucking sucks as I was really excited to play it as well.
SmartWaffles
Member
Only if the original DRM (Steam, Origin, whatever) requires a online check once in a while, Denuvo does not change how the original DRM behaves.
EDIT: it looks like does phone home.
CecilRousso
Member
This page seem to still be up to date.
http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_3rd_Party_DRM_on_Steam
The description for Denuvo:
It's pretty cute that they're calling it anti tamper and not DRM.
http://pcgamingwiki.com/wiki/The_Big_List_of_3rd_Party_DRM_on_Steam
The description for Denuvo:
It's pretty cute that they're calling it anti tamper and not DRM.
GrantDaNasty
Member
Look, end of the day, piracy is a problem. It's a problem for longer-term preservation and modification, but some folks, even if they could afford it, take piracy as an option for granted ('course, piracy might be lessened if games actually had demos, or at the very least, you could make sure a game RUNS on your specs well enough via benchmark tools), as such it's a tough problem to solve.
I wish companies made some sort of agreement that 6 months-1 year afterwards they would loosen the DRM present on a title, but that's a whole other can of worms.
I wish companies made some sort of agreement that 6 months-1 year afterwards they would loosen the DRM present on a title, but that's a whole other can of worms.
well eula speaks for itself , why would Ubisoft lie about it?? Especially when they are stripping themselves from liability if it does anything problematic just couple rows below.
I would say the exact error message i posted above is direct confirmation that i goes a bit beyond just anti-tampering...
But it actually isn't. Piracy does not represent lost sales.
in long terms it does. in gaming first world the market is more healthy so you may not feel it. but in some regions such as in chinese language regions, there is no longer a thriving single player game development scene (mobile also), precisely because of piracy. even when a game already costs less than 10 us dollars (or 2 us dollars on mobile) ppl still pirate.
its just one of the factors, not entire reason. Thats like saying,that existence of guns is precise reason of current imigration crisis.
Well there are even publishers who claimed that the resselling on consoles is on the same level as piracy and it destroys the industry .... remember
online-only Xbox One
GrantDaNasty
Member
Look, I only have anecdotal evidence on my side, but I have quite a few friends who shake their head when I buy a game on Steam that I've already played through in the past (via legal and....non-legal means), and it's become a routine where I will get on my soapbox about how people shouldn't take pride in pirating shit.
my point still stands that piracy could mean lost sales even if it doesnt in immediate terms.
how to combat it is another issue though. i dont agree with aggressive drm solutions either.
DRM performs online checks to ensure that you own the software at the 'activation' phase. Denuvo helps to ensure that someone cannot modify that binary to break that DRM.
The actual DRM process isn't Denuvo (Denuvo's own site suggests using Steam or Origin for DRM).
Honestly it's been the reverse for me, I know a lot of people who used to pirate PC games who started legally buying games on Steam after I sent them a game on Steam and they started using the service.
FunkyDealer
Banned
Most software these days leave traces. I don't expect Denuvo to leave anything particularly nasty.
I'm glad there's a functional weapon against piracy. I'm confident there will be a way around it long before we need to really worry about preservation.
I'm glad there's a functional weapon against piracy. I'm confident there will be a way around it long before we need to really worry about preservation.
CecilRousso
Member
You don't see the downside, with an additional server depency, where an additional company must authorize your use of your purchase, and where a technical failure can lock you out from the game for 24h or more?
The actual implication is the same though, Denuvo must authorize your use of your purchase whenever you install it.
Linkstrikesback
Member
Yes it does. I am sure any big name game loses some number of sales from piracy. To say it doesn't is foolish. It is, if nothing else, statistically impossible that nobody who pirates a game would otherwise buy it.
yeah i can agree with that ;-)
But i just dont think that the actual lost sales number ( nonmeasurable abstract metric) is radically different with or without drm . (like steamspy sales of NoDRM Ground Zeroes and Denuvo Phantom Pain)
I even read the article from one of the indies that they got slight bump in sales after pirate version went online thx to positive word-of-mouth.
IMO the actual quality of the game and word-of-mouth are the main to influence the gained/lost sales... but yeah i have no idea how it works in AAA world, i only know some people who were in years ago and now are all indie
I still find the "evidence" that the executable obfuscation that Denuvo performs needs any sort of online check lacking. Network activity on your PC is not some magic box, anybody could start a Denuvo game and see if it sends out some TCP/IP messages to somewhere other than Steam/uPlay or what have you. This should be trivally easy to prove with Wireshark, but all PCGamingWiki has is a link to the EULA of Lords of the Fallen, which needs the online check for Steam anyway. Does not convince me in the least, especially because these sorts of online checks are always causing people trouble and somebody would go through the trouble of showcasing this behaviour not just claiming BS without evidence.
(And no, a support page is also not direct evidence)
Not sure what you mean, but Denuvo is anti-tamper. It checks that no-one altered the binary. But it's up to the binary (which Denuvo is protecting) to decide whether you have the right to run it.
In most cases, denuvo will simply be protecting origin/valve DRM, and I doubt most people have the faintest idea which games do/don't use Denuvo.
IMHO Denuvo is a good idea, simply because it's stopped everyone bitching endlessly about DRM/piracy, but I doubt it actually makes much of a difference to anyone's revenue.
FantasticMrSnake
Member
Open = free?
Maybe they should made a drm-free version after 2 or 3 years.
BTW: I read when lord of the fallen came up, that Denuvo was frying SSDs, was that true? I didn't read nothing related after that, so I think it wasn't true.
I'd love to see some of these AAA publishers come up with clever new reasons as to why their titles aren't selling.
edit:
DRM is never a good idea - its a temporary solution to a permanent problem that always impacts the paying customer. Piracy, in one form or the other is here to stay.
edit:
DRM is never a good idea - its a temporary solution to a permanent problem that always impacts the paying customer. Piracy, in one form or the other is here to stay.
CecilRousso
Member
I'm talking about the signs pointing towards that Denuvo uses online activations.
I prefer to think that there is no smoke without fire when it comes to things like this. I would love to be proven wrong, and that Denuvo doesn't use online activation, but there are way too many things pointing to it now. Reddit discussions, support discussions, the same error message for several games that are know to use it, the wiki, etc.
I might very well be wrong, but until I know that I am, I won't value Denuvo games as much as game without it. There have been way too many fuckups when it comes to these things in the past.
But I can get a source that clearly states that Denuvo doesn't use online activation, then I'm fine with it.
Turin Turambar
Member
Lots of misinformation in the thread already. Again, Denuvo is an Antitamper mechanism, to work IT HAS to be accompanied from another drm, be the center steam, ubisoft dry, etc. It's that real drm that calls home, can limit account sharing, etc. Thanks Ubisoft or square Enix for that.
but why woould the real DRM called home to a website owned by CEO of Denuvo??
Never had a problem with it, didn't even notice it existed in Dragon Age Inquisition before someone pointed it out to me, so definitely will not be a deterrent in my game purchasing habits.
Denuvo is pretty tame compared to previous DRM schemes, such as Starforce or always online Uplay.
Denuvo is pretty tame compared to previous DRM schemes, such as Starforce or always online Uplay.
Zepp Twofist
Member
I'm not for DRM in general, but I have yet to see credible sources explaining what Denuvo actually does. It would be interesting to see if it does anything more than what the company claims (encrypt/decrypt executables).
Unfortunately it ends up being just another opaque piece of anti consumer software you have to fill your PC with in order to play games these days, but the concept of owning your own hardware and software has been out the window since the time Richard Stallman stopped getting haircuts.
Unfortunately it ends up being just another opaque piece of anti consumer software you have to fill your PC with in order to play games these days, but the concept of owning your own hardware and software has been out the window since the time Richard Stallman stopped getting haircuts.
All Denuvo games need to first be launched while online:
Steam itself has no online validation requirement. For games that just use CEG ("Steam DRM"), you can install a game then immediately switch to Offline Mode just fine.
Turin Turambar
Member
All Denuvo games need to first be launched while online:
Steam itself has no "online check".
Steam drm, if used, has a first online check, from what I understand. You need the first check for the offline mode to work. At least that's how I always thought it worked.
For once this seems to be a drm that helps games curb the frontloaded piracy thus helping for sales.
On the other all kinds of drm sucks and preservation is a big issue for me.
would be good if they deactivated the drm after 1 year or something like that so the game can still be preserved while helping the frontloaded sales. But who am I kidding, they will never do anything to games once they have hte money.
At least this drm seems to not affect games in a performance or bugfest kind of way...
On the other all kinds of drm sucks and preservation is a big issue for me.
would be good if they deactivated the drm after 1 year or something like that so the game can still be preserved while helping the frontloaded sales. But who am I kidding, they will never do anything to games once they have hte money.
At least this drm seems to not affect games in a performance or bugfest kind of way...
I ran a test prior to posting, just to be sure.
Now this is interesting. Maybe a response to some of the cracks that basically "emulate" the DRM activation thus circumventing Denuvo? Technically only an extension of Steams CEG though. But I stand corrected!All Denuvo games need to first be launched while online:
Steam itself has no online validation requirement. For games that just use CEG ("Steam DRM"), you can install a game then immediately switch to Offline Mode just fine.
Turin Turambar
Member
Welp, it seems I was wrong then.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I love how people blindly defend piracy as if everyone is doing it for noble fuckin' reasons and there's absolutely no harm done to anyone.
It's way too cute.
"But if it's a digital product, nobody is taking any money away from anyone."
Hilarious.
KaoteK
Member
No one spends that kind of money on consoles over here, a chipped xbox is like 200 dollars.
Also how the fuck do you think a poor person can afford a pc for games? Plus have access to a credit card to buy them?
Seriously, are you sure you live in a third world country?
Theft ≠ Copyright infringement, I mean it's not even a debate, the legal and common definitions are very different.
Their website claims it doesn't, and I haven't seen any evidence that it does.
However, note that Denuvo protects the *game binary* directly.
So, AFAICT, if a game performs activation during installation, then Denuvo is useless - as it will not protect the DRM. So, for Denuvo to work, the activation must be performed at 'first run'.
But that has nothing to do with denuvo actually doing any "DRM" features, a large selling point of Denuvo is that it allows a developer/publisher to choose their own DRM system.
It's not DRM for a start.
well there are reports of this message appearing even when the steam is forced offline and game has available update, even though in offline mode there shouldn't be a way of it knowing there is update
CecilRousso
Member
If the game is depedent on their servers to be able to run, it actually is. Even if it doesn't validate exactly who is contacting them, you're not allowed to play your game without Denuvo saying so. So for the paying end customer, the result is the same.
Anecdotal evidence and all, but here it goes: I have two friends who bought Dragon Age: Inquisition after trying and failing to run a pirate copy. One of them also purchased Max Payne 3 under similar circumstances.
Then again, those were exceptions. I don't know how many games they would buy if piracy disappeared overnight.
Is these AAA games is even woth to preserve tho...
These game is always spectacle for its ages
Tomb Raider game from year 2027 wilĺ make my eyes bleed if seeinģ this 2016 game.
ClaptoVaughn
Member
Out of curiosity, based on what is known, how would Skyrim's moddability have been affected if it had been released with Denuvo? And what types of mods would be affected, if any?
I accept there is an online check in the form of forcing you to put Steam into Online Mode after you install it. That does not, in any shape or form, mean that "you're not allowed to play your game without Denuvo saying so". In fact, in the case above, for 99% of the users, nothing would ever change, they would not even know about it without looking it up.
And it is a reality that Denuvo is a very unobtrusive piece of software, which is a tremendous achievement on part of the developer. I accept that one can morally decline the use of games that enact DRM by use of this obfuscator, but you are being ridiculously alarmist. The paying customer notices nothing, in case of the Steam check. Except if they happen to install a game, put Steam into Offline Mode and then start it, which is not how you usually use Steam, and even then, it is a bit annoying at best.
The argument for preservation stands, but I do feel that is a larger topic than PC DRM anyway. Gaming is larger than the PC space, after all.