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Fargo - Season 2 - a new true crime chapter takes us to 1979 Sioux Falls - Mon on FX
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
I understand all of those words but I just don't buy it. It's too unrealistic of a reaction. A much simpler explanation is she did it because the entire season is predicated on Rye being killed and everyone not knowing who dun it.
Peggy and Fat Damon are the chaos engines making ridiculous decisions that keep the show moving.
The point of it is that it's an unrealistic reaction that makes sense for that character to make. I've said this before, but that is the inciting incident of this season equivalent to Lester spontaneously hammering his wife to death in season 1 or Jerry concocting an absurd fake/real kidnapping of his wife in order to steal money from his father in law. They are all actions a "normal" person would never make, but the characters in those moments believe it is the best thing to solve their problems. In all cases the characters continue to make a series of stupid, yet logical in their context, decisions that continue to drive the plot forward.
Peggy is an even weirder character with a more specific character flaw, and therefore her actions are even more absurd on the face of it, but it's so well developed that I don't see how Peggy's actions are any harder to swallow than, say, Jerry stealing a car off his own lot and giving it to the criminals, without doing any of the backend paper work to even try to make the disappearance of the vehicle seem legit. In both cases I understand why that character is doing the things they are doing.
Cornballer
Member
- Andy Greenwald/Chris Ryan podcast: Ep. 8: 'The Watch'
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Is this the closest thing to a TV podcast in 2016 now.
Salty Catfish
Member
Billy Bob Thornton was in his 20s in '79 so an appearance from Malvo wouldn't be inconceivable. I hope they don't do it though, his presence as a pure force of chaos wouldn't benefit from any backstory.
sir_kevith
Member
I agree. There is a million ways they could've killed Rye mysteriously so that it set off a war and have that part of the show work. Peggy and Ed are just entertaining. One is in lala land and the other is very realistic. They are so wrong for each other but it's a small town so they try to make it work.
I can see people getting tired of the sheer number of coincidences in the show but it's kinda the point. It doesn't make it bad if they continue to be so creative.
I listen to AfterBuzz TV podcasts after almost every episode of tv I watch, they're fucking great.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
Cornballer
Member
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Gozer the Gozerian
Member
So Fargo could have been a TV series as far back as 1997, here's the full pilot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yvUx9UvzVA
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Thank Christ it'll be contemporary. I love this season, but I hated the setting.
I wanna see Mike Milligan's kids.
I don't see the Sulversons returning, we've seen too much of them. Same with Gus, and Gus's kid is too young to be a great character yet. Bob Odenkirk returning could be okay.
I kinda expect the guy who sold Lorne Malvo stuff to return. His complete misunderstanding of Lorne Malvo (trying to sell him a pink police scanner, warning him of a zombie apocalypse) was funny and is something you could re-use easily without feeling like a retread.
BossDarkseid
Member
Oh I know. I feel like it'd be too much. A reference, sure, but I feel like Malvo actually appearing, be it as a younger Malvo or the Devil, would be too much for Fargo. I could imagine Hanzee/Mike mentioning that someone told them once about how the human eye can see more shades of green than any other colour, but apart from that...
Long post warning.
They had to go straight to Ed's. Hank stopped Lou from chasing him saying they know where he's going. Ed's the hot lead fugitive running away who the Gerdahts are looking for to kill. There's no other choice but to get him asap. The people at the police station would have radioed-over to tell them Bear left so there shouldn't have been any reason not to drive straight to the house.
Here's what you do: Peggy told Hank she intends to leave to her Seminar - that's the first lead to where Peg and Ed may run to. Call Sioux Falls PD and make them pay a visit to the hotel to check it out.
Peg and Ed didn't leave with their car. Hank knows the Blue Lincoln was the car Dodd arrived in with his guys. Two of them are found at the house, Peggy, Edd and Dodd aren't. That car is missing. Get an APB for the description of the car. Send the pictures of Ed, Peggy and Dob for every town in the area. We see a police cars stopping near Ed on one of his phone calls. That cop should know the authorities are looking for Dodd's car and for a person matching Ed's description.
None of that sort is alluded to have taken place last episode or this episode. It's like they were trying to search leads w\o knowing where to begin.
Lets continue: Hanzee goes to the hotel and gets Peggy's friend to narrow down her hideout location. If Hanzee only kills bigots then he spares her, right? So she calls the cops, tells them all and they know where to look right? And if he does kill her, somebody at the hotel by the morning will discover it and call them and that should have been at least mentioned in the last 2 eps, even as a dead-end lead, right?
But there's none of that. We have no indication the authorities doing any of these basic stuff and they are literally gifted the location out-of-nowhere by the shop owner who very conveniently Hanzee left capable of doing so.
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A fat man winning a race against a car + moving a hefty body from the basement and still gets it done before Hank and Lou and arrive is probably the most outrageous piece of writing i saw this TV season - and there's plenty of competition.
Most of the better shows don't do that or try to minimize or aren't as painfully obvious in doing so. Fargo doesn't, and it actually intensifies this kind of writing as the season goes along. Coupled with mostly paper-thin and skin-deep characters and characterization i can't agree with overly-positive accolades it's receiving.
They had to go straight to Ed's. Hank stopped Lou from chasing him saying they know where he's going. Ed's the hot lead fugitive running away who the Gerdahts are looking for to kill. There's no other choice but to get him asap. The people at the police station would have radioed-over to tell them Bear left so there shouldn't have been any reason not to drive straight to the house.
Oh, it's not unusual. My disappointment with that is that i expected the massacre to be a combination and a culmination of the Gerhardts\Milligan\Ed&Peggy\Police mix-up. What we got was mostly inconsequential to that - Hanzee seeing that 'memorial' and losing it.
Yes, but the imaginary person was taking the place of a real man, it wouldn't have happened if it was just an empty chair in my eyes. Anyhow, lets say Peggy is oblivious, there's still the part of Dodd somehow untying himself from what seemed am impossible position. They are taking shortcuts to get where they wanted. Why not just have Dodd say that he has to poop, which probably would entail getting him untied and go from there?
Dodd expressed his fear of Peggy to Ed. He pleaded him to get her away from him. He recognized her as a threat, she stabbed him twice. He talked about he's going to mess her up when he gets free. So either kill her right away or tie her up or make sure she won't won't interrupt you and don't turn your back to her. He's a leader of a crime organization - act like. You can always dig deep enough and come up with some justification or reason he did what he did but at certain point it becomes excuses.
Hanzee would have had that time if he made sure that the one guy that can take away that time by calling the cops wouldn't be able to. Why invite trouble? So don't kill the store owner: knock him out. Tie him up. Bust up the telephone. Doing none? That's bullshit that's only there to serve the plot because they couldn't get Hank and Lou at the cabin any other way.
That's part of the problem. These city-spawning crimes and crime-lords and there's still the sense like only Hank and Lou are on the job, that no other policemen are doing anything.
Here's what you do: Peggy told Hank she intends to leave to her Seminar - that's the first lead to where Peg and Ed may run to. Call Sioux Falls PD and make them pay a visit to the hotel to check it out.
Peg and Ed didn't leave with their car. Hank knows the Blue Lincoln was the car Dodd arrived in with his guys. Two of them are found at the house, Peggy, Edd and Dodd aren't. That car is missing. Get an APB for the description of the car. Send the pictures of Ed, Peggy and Dob for every town in the area. We see a police cars stopping near Ed on one of his phone calls. That cop should know the authorities are looking for Dodd's car and for a person matching Ed's description.
None of that sort is alluded to have taken place last episode or this episode. It's like they were trying to search leads w\o knowing where to begin.
Lets continue: Hanzee goes to the hotel and gets Peggy's friend to narrow down her hideout location. If Hanzee only kills bigots then he spares her, right? So she calls the cops, tells them all and they know where to look right? And if he does kill her, somebody at the hotel by the morning will discover it and call them and that should have been at least mentioned in the last 2 eps, even as a dead-end lead, right?
But there's none of that. We have no indication the authorities doing any of these basic stuff and they are literally gifted the location out-of-nowhere by the shop owner who very conveniently Hanzee left capable of doing so.
I didn't say its sad people enjoy the show, i myself listed the reasons you would so. But i do think it's sad that what Fargo is doing in terms of plotting and characters is enough to award her 'best tv show on air\ever' accolades. I've enjoyed quite a lot stuff that i wouldn't dare to call as even being 'good' so it's frustrating seeing faults and criticism downplayed or ignored as if recognizing them will make you enjoy it less.
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You're mixing up the timeline. Hank was smashed in the head, then drove the car and picked up Lou and then they returned to the empty house and then Lou called the ambulance. If the concussion was that bad he couldn't check the basement when woke up then he shouldn't be driving a car and i doubt he could help at the police station in that situation. Anyhow, he had a situation with Peggy and 3 criminals inside the house - that's the immediate concern he should have addressed when he came back to consciousness.
Hanks' driving a car, he's fine enough. You chase the lead (Ed going to his house) as far as you can or call an ambulance to Edd's house location while driving there in case you need to continue the chase and leave Hank at Peggy's house. If i were writing i would do in completely different way that actually holds water and isn't ridiculous.
A fat man winning a race against a car + moving a hefty body from the basement and still gets it done before Hank and Lou and arrive is probably the most outrageous piece of writing i saw this TV season - and there's plenty of competition.
Check the first section of the post for my comments on these.
I'm not the biggest BB fan, but it is much better than Fargo. Yes, it had its bad moments (although 2 of your examples aren't really issues of suspending belief). My criticism can be leveled against most shows because it's at the basic level of writing and plotting. It's common for negatively-received shows to have their characters serve the plot. It's common for them to handwave, bend and break characterization or simple logic or whatever needs be in order to bring forward what they decided to do .It's built on it. (this season of Homeland is a great example).
Most of the better shows don't do that or try to minimize or aren't as painfully obvious in doing so. Fargo doesn't, and it actually intensifies this kind of writing as the season goes along. Coupled with mostly paper-thin and skin-deep characters and characterization i can't agree with overly-positive accolades it's receiving.
How can you be saying this with a straight face? Let me get it straight: TWD acting stupidly and doing stupid stuff = bad. Fargo characters acting stupidly and doing stupid stuff = not bad? Both shows are an example for characters serving the plot. The veneer might be better in 'Fargo' but the bottom line is the same. No, most of the character actions i criticized in Fargo don't make sense in the context of the story. You can try to excuse them, maybe some more easily than others, but you can do so with TWD as well. You don't think TWD depicts its characters as imperfect people who make mistakes? Why is this defense OK and applicable for Fargo but not for TWD? And what about none character action stuff like Ed outrunning a car? How is that not a blatant preposterous writing that overrides everything else just for the sake of enabling the plot to proceed in a certain way?
Drifter_InA_Cage
Member
Baldmove is what you're looking for:
http://baldmove.com/category/fargo/
I used to listen to AfterBuzz because they seem like the most popular tv podcast out there, but don't anymore because it's pretty much completely amateur compared to bald move podcasts.
Dodd&Peggy best couple
it's hilarious to see someone trying so hard and being wrong at the same time.
Saty needs his weekly gaf dose of "let's waste my whole day writing posts where I pretend that this show is really bad, oh and also let's again point out how S1 was bad too"
it's hilarious to see someone trying so hard and being wrong at the same time.
I feel like Saty is actively trying to misinterpret and misunderstand elements of both the show and posts in this thread.
Characters in the Walking Dead do stupid things that don't make sense, because they contradict previous things in the show, established rules, and previous character actions, or because the blocking of a given scene is so sloppy that it just logistically makes zero literal sense. It makes no sense in the context of the show or outside of it. Characters in Fargo do stupid things that do make sense, in the context of the characters themselves and the story being told.
Characters in the Walking Dead do stupid things that don't make sense, because they contradict previous things in the show, established rules, and previous character actions, or because the blocking of a given scene is so sloppy that it just logistically makes zero literal sense. It makes no sense in the context of the show or outside of it. Characters in Fargo do stupid things that do make sense, in the context of the characters themselves and the story being told.
Cornballer
Member
- Fargo - See It, Then Be It: Selected Scene - Episode 8 (youtube)
Dunst killing it in this scene.
Spectral Glider
Member
I didn't mix one thing up. You, on the other hand, project shit and motivations that didn't happen in the show to have things fit your arguments. For instance, how does Hank know he had Peggy and 3 criminals in the house? Answer, he doesn't. When Hanzee approaches from behind, Hank thought it was Peggy because he had no clue anybody else was in the house. That was the whole point. If he can even remember who hit him when came to, he still has ZERO knowledge of anybody else being in the house because he was out cold when the rest of them entered it. And when he comes to, all of the vehicles are gone except for Dodd's. And, the concussion was that bad because he specifically says to Lou, "Maybe you drive, I'm seeing double."
Cornballer
Member
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
I find the decor of the 70s fucking awful. It's a detracts my ability to try and get invested in a movie or show. It really turns me off. On the other hand, I loved Mad Men, because although it was set in the 50s, 60s, and early 70s, the film felt contemporary due to how the show was shot. I dunno. It's hard to explain. Also, as with Mad Men, I love The Americans.
The Americans is set in the 80's though.
I quite enjoy the 70's as a backdrop I must say. Works for Fargo at least.
DiscoJer
Member
Hrrrmph. The decor of the 1970s represents mankind's cultural peak.
tryagainlater
Member
It's like a Burn Notice reunion...of 2 actors.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Yeah. His acting abilities came out for Fargo.
I love his silly demeanor when talking while Ed was suffocating.
I love his silly demeanor when talking while Ed was suffocating.
I did not realize Dodd is the guy from Burn notice. . .
He also starred in Touching Evil alongside Vera Farmiga and Bradley Cooper.
He was also in Sicario:He also starred in Touching Evil alongside Vera Farmiga and Bradley Cooper.
StopMakingSense
Member
He was also in Sicario:
Christ that was him?
Cool, sounds good.
Jere Burns is in it later (among others)!
No fucking way, Wynn Duffy is in it too!?
He was also in Sicario:
Wow, no idea that was him.
Freewheelin'
Member
Thought he was good in Changeling too
ZackieChan
Member
Can you guys tell that Clark Kent is actually Superman?
Throw a mustache on a guy and he's a chameleon, eh? Jeffrey Donovan is awesome - I'd recognize him everywhere. I don't even need him holding a cup of yogurt to know it's him.
No, they don't. What a great blanket statement to use to thwart any criticism. I could easily try and twist stuff like that regarding TWD.
Unless the 'context' of the characters in Fargo is to be as malleable as the writers want them to be to enable the specif plot progression they want. Which makes those character props that serve the plot.
Is the context of Hank is to be an incompetent police officer that somehow risen to the position of Sheriff but isn't capable to do the basics of his job? Not following evidence that indicate hit-and-run, not checking Peggy's house, not issuing an APB for Dodd's car etc.
Is the context of Hanzee to be careless enough that he won't prevent the store owner calling the cops and causing him more trouble because that's the only way the writers decided that should happen?
Is this for real? Hank was standing in the porch, facing Dodd and his guys. Dodd started closing in and then Hank was struck by Hanzee from behind. Are you fucking kidding me trying to argue that Hank wouldn't be aware of that? He told Peggy to hide in the house. He saw Dodd approaching him with his two guys and then he blacked out. So when he wakes up it's imperative for Hank to check the house. There are no 2 ways about it. No ifs or buts. His last recollection is Peggy hiding and at least 3 men coming for her. He freaking admonishes himself in last week's ep that he didn't check the house. Dodd's car is still here so he obviously should check the house. What if Dodd's car wasn't there and Peggy's body was in the house, huh? Hank ought to have check the house. Period. The only reason he didn't was because that would fuck up the specific and stupid way the writers wanted the plot to progress. Yeah, Hank's concussion was 'that bad' that he drove a car and picked up Lou before handing him the wheel.
See, this is the part what where people will start jumping through every kind of hoop to try and excuse shows they like. Every point of question or criticism is washed away, everything actually 'makes sense'. Every action is justifiable. Nothing is wrong, no sir. Every bad piece of wiring is let out of the hook. The clueless Sheriff, the cops that don't do a single thing to find who they are looking after, critical info unmentioned, a guy that basically invites the cops to interrupt him, a guy beating a car to a destination.
Just stop. Recognizing unsatisfactory\flawed writing won't cause you to like the show less. It won't reflect badly on you that you still love the show. It's digging your heels in and stretching everything imaginable to deflect criticism in a show's defense that will.
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Btw, forgot to ask: Was it feasible\plausible the way in which Ed got Mike's number?
I did not realize Dodd is the guy from Burn notice. . .
I watched a couple of episodes of Burn Notice but did not recognize Dodd from there. To be honest, I think I've never seen Dodd in any other show or movie.
excelsiorlef
Member
You are an island of one on this man.
Newspaper article revealed where Milligan was staying. Ed called the operator, operator connected to fron desk, front desk rang his room.
That was an entire scene man.
internetwolf
Banned
He was also in Sicario:
whoa this movie looks great!
MisterFalcon
Member
Touching Evil had a lot of future stars in it, Donovan got overshadowed.
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