• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fargo - Season 2 - a new true crime chapter takes us to 1979 Sioux Falls - Mon on FX

From CM Punk on Twitter:

CVIDRkYWcAAKOgJ.jpg:large

If these two met they would have a lot of common ground. Minorities exploited and taken for granted by white superiors who both said "fuck this" and went rogue on the exact same day. Part of me wants to see them fight, part of me wants to see them team up.
 

Redd

Member
Okay Peggy has grown on me but wtf would Hanzee let Peggy get close to him with scissors. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Really? Really???
 
Okay Peggy has grown on me but wtf would Hanzee let Peggy get close to him with scissors. Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Really? Really???

Some have read the scene as him basically asking her to drive the scissors into the base of his neck, without actually asking her to do that.

And then he snapped out of it when he saw the cops comin.
 

Saty

Member
Fargo continues to be one of the most artificially written shows i've ever seen. It really is remarkable. They decided they are going to hit certain plot points and heck everything else.

- Good to have it settled Hank was being an awful stupid cop not checking on Peggy before leaving.
- Fat Edd, who was already tired from running away from the police station, outruns a car!!!!! Amazing. Hank and Lou had a car, started from the same position, knowing where Ed goes, against a tired and 'heavyset' person -- who then had to carry Dodd's body from the basement to a car! -- and they still getting there before Peg and Ed leavs! HOLY SHIT.

- 'Damn it, we dubbed it a 'massacre' in S1, so we got start dropping bodies'. Cue Hanzee going over the edge and shooting everybody on sight.
- Dunno whatever that Peggy zoning-out supposed to mean but good thing it happened. Why, how else can we have Dodd escape!
- Dodd leaving Peggy alive and turning his back to her even after recognizing she's a threat and delighting in the thought of killing her. You see, he's just misogynist enough for us to have a convenient 'turning of the tables' scene.
- Hanzee shoots everybody except the store owner that has the newspaper and phone next to him. You see, he's just sloppy enough because how else are we going have the cops raid the cabin and have Hanzee flee? How else are we going to go through with the plot we wanted to at the expense of everything else?
- Cops are sitting on their hands doing nothing to find Peggy and Ed. Thank god for that phone call!

I don't know how to put it. It's sad people look at this as 'best show ever' material. There's fun to be had watching Fargo. You just need to check-out your brain and let any criticism fly by - don't think too hard about it. Do that and you'll enjoy the cinematography, editing, acting, the preposterous-ness, some of the humor and the soundtrack (what was the drum beat at the end?). Don't watch it for the plotting or characters.
 

Emerson

May contain jokes =>
- Hanzee shoots everybody except the store owner that has the newspaper and phone next to him. You see, he's just sloppy enough because how else are we going have the cops raid the cabin and have Hanzee flee? How else are we going to go through with the plot we wanted to at the expense of everything else?

Hmm, I wonder where they got this idea? It's not like there's any other Coen Brothers universe assassin-type characters who go around arbitrarily deciding who they do or don't kill.
 

orioto

Good Art™
That was really something else. One of the best episode i ever saw on television. It's just a little sad that somewhere, it makes you realize the rest of the season wasn't that tense, dense nor actually fun. It was so beautiful and moody, but a little cold for me.
 

haikira

Member
Ha, I'm such an idiot. I had it in my head this was an eight episode season, so walked away from the latest episode thinking "wow, that's a ballsy way to end the show. I'll need to sleep on whether or not I like that ending".

But yeah, this season has been stellar. Just watched seven and eight together, and they were both great.
 
Fargo continues to be one of the most artificially written shows i've ever seen. It really is remarkable. They decided they are going to hit certain plot points and heck everything else.

- Good to have it settled Hank was being an awful stupid cop not checking on Peggy before leaving.
- Fat Edd, who was already tired from running away from the police station, outruns a car!!!!! Amazing. Hank and Lou had a car, started from the same position, knowing where Ed goes, against a tired and 'heavyset' person -- who then had to carry Dodd's body from the basement to a car! -- and they still getting there before Peg and Ed leavs! HOLY SHIT.

- 'Damn it, we dubbed it a 'massacre' in S1, so we got start dropping bodies'. Cue Hanzee going over the edge and shooting everybody on sight.
- Dunno whatever that Peggy zoning-out supposed to mean but good thing it happened. Why, how else can we have Dodd escape!
- Dodd leaving Peggy alive and turning his back to her even after recognizing she's a threat and delighting in the thought of killing her. You see, he's just misogynist enough for us to have a convenient 'turning of the tables' scene.
- Hanzee shoots everybody except the store owner that has the newspaper and phone next to him. You see, he's just sloppy enough because how else are we going have the cops raid the cabin and have Hanzee flee? How else are we going to go through with the plot we wanted to at the expense of everything else?
- Cops are sitting on their hands doing nothing to find Peggy and Ed. Thank god for that phone call!

I don't know how to put it. It's sad people look at this as 'best show ever' material. There's fun to be had watching Fargo. You just need to check-out your brain and let any criticism fly by - don't think too hard about it. Do that and you'll enjoy the cinematography, editing, acting, the preposterous-ness, some of the humor and the soundtrack (what was the drum beat at the end?). Don't watch it for the plotting or characters.

how is this real
 
I'm liking this season for the most part but it's a definite step down from season 1 for me. That doesn't mean season 2 is shit or anything; it just means season 1 was just that damn good.
 
Ha, I'm such an idiot. I had it in my head this was an eight episode season, so walked away from the latest episode thinking "wow, that's a ballsy way to end the show. I'll need to sleep on whether or not I like that ending".

But yeah, this season has been stellar. Just watched seven and eight together, and they were both great.

ROFL.
 
I remember after the first couple episodes or so being like man, that Hanzee character seems interesting, too bad he'll pry just be an underutilized side character/henchman that'll get offed too soon. Really like the direction the show has gone.
 

poppabk

Cheeks Spread for Digital Only Future
I don't completely disagree. Fargo should not be in any discussion of 'best-of' tv, and I'm getting tired of how convenient some of the plot developments are, but it does work as pulp, and it's fun as hell to watch.
I think that is what it is going for - its not supposed to be realistic - at least the first season gave that impression, this season is a bit more by the books. Part of the point of the show is the intersection of fates of different characters and people making strange or stupid decisions and where they lead to.
I was disappointed that Hank really did just not check on Peggy, with the weird UFO stuff in his house, coupled with the obvious need for a flashback, I thought that we would get something more interesting and surreal.
 

Niraj

I shot people I like more for less.
Just caught up, easily the funniest episode of the season. Nice contrast between those moments and the more violent ones (Dodd hanging Ed, the knife in the foot, etc). Sucks that there are only two left, been loving it.
 

Fury451

Banned
Just caught up, easily the funniest episode of the season. Nice contrast between those moments and the more violent ones (Dodd hanging Ed, the knife in the foot, etc). Sucks that there are only two left, been loving it.

Well the good news is that a season three is coming. It's gonna be really interesting to see how they follow up this one though.
 

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
I disagree. Olive Kitteridge was pretty niche and it did well for the actors. HBO seems to get more respect than FX.

I was mainly referring to the main Best Limited Series Emmy.

Acting is anyone's guess - Sherlock, American Horror Story, American Crime Story, American Crime are all just as likely to win acting awards as Show Me a Hero or Fargo imo.
 

Saty

Member
lord knows that there wasn't anything in that movie peggy would resonate with on any level
Not to the point where she's oblivious to what's going on right next to her. And lets not ponder to much how Dodd got himself free.
Hmm, I wonder where they got this idea? It's not like there's any other Coen Brothers universe assassin-type characters who go around arbitrarily deciding who they do or don't kill.
Been a while since i watched that film but i don't remember it bothering that much. Maybe because the film wasn't full with those kind of things. But lets say i hated it and it was bad, how does it excuse it from happening again? Why do you think the show is obliged to do follow everything the Coens did? If you're going to shoot down every negative because 'thats how those two film-makers did their movies' then i'm going to have assign every positive to them too and not the actual showrunner and his writing team.

The fact remains unchanged: Hanzee would like to be alive and free and alone with Peggy, Edd and Dodd. So him not killing the guy who can identify him, call the police and point them to where he went is trash.

how is this real
Do you have something to say? Do you have a case why what i listed doesn't actually negatively reflect on the quality and writing of this show? Do you have an explanation why a certain type of writing that gets shredded in every other show gets a pass in 'Fargo', by viewers and critics alike?

Fargo is a perfect example for a show where the characters serve the plot, no matter how stupidly and ridiculously the events and characters need to be twisted to hit that plot. What's generally considered as good\competent writing doesn't have it or minimizes it. Fargo relishes in it. Every other show gets torn apart doing that kind of stuff; Fargo gets lauded. It's bad writing, bad plotting, paper-thin characters all in the service of the plot.

Please explain this dissonance between Fargo and everything else, where the former's fault and flaws get ignored or marginalized. It was the same for S1.
Like i said, you can enjoy Fargo but it's disparaging to watch it being praised as this or that despite it's bag of issues that sadly gets swept under the carpet.
 

firehawk12

Subete no aware
The writing in Fargo is always heightened though, where you can literally see someone moving the pieces around the chess board in order to tell the story they want to tell. It's almost like a fable or fairy tale.

I would say something like The Leftovers, which is trying to be serious, is a much better target for that particular criticism.
 

Saty

Member
The writing in Fargo is always heightened though, where you can literally see someone moving the pieces around the chess board in order to tell the story they want to tell. It's almost like a fable or fairy tale.

I would say something like The Leftovers, which is trying to be serious, is a much better target for that particular criticism.

I tend to agree with the sentiment. However, the escalating frequency and severity of these instances are just too much to let slide in my taste.
 

B33

Banned
Don't let them stymie your work, Saty.

I look forward to your post-mortem on Season 2.

I don't agree with you, but I find your posts entertaining.
 
Fargo continues to be one of the most artificially written shows i've ever seen. It really is remarkable. They decided they are going to hit certain plot points and heck everything else.

- Good to have it settled Hank was being an awful stupid cop not checking on Peggy before leaving.
- Fat Edd, who was already tired from running away from the police station, outruns a car!!!!! Amazing. Hank and Lou had a car, started from the same position, knowing where Ed goes, against a tired and 'heavyset' person -- who then had to carry Dodd's body from the basement to a car! -- and they still getting there before Peg and Ed leavs! HOLY SHIT.

- 'Damn it, we dubbed it a 'massacre' in S1, so we got start dropping bodies'. Cue Hanzee going over the edge and shooting everybody on sight.
- Dunno whatever that Peggy zoning-out supposed to mean but good thing it happened. Why, how else can we have Dodd escape!
- Dodd leaving Peggy alive and turning his back to her even after recognizing she's a threat and delighting in the thought of killing her. You see, he's just misogynist enough for us to have a convenient 'turning of the tables' scene.
- Hanzee shoots everybody except the store owner that has the newspaper and phone next to him. You see, he's just sloppy enough because how else are we going have the cops raid the cabin and have Hanzee flee? How else are we going to go through with the plot we wanted to at the expense of everything else?
- Cops are sitting on their hands doing nothing to find Peggy and Ed. Thank god for that phone call!

I don't know how to put it. It's sad people look at this as 'best show ever' material. There's fun to be had watching Fargo. You just need to check-out your brain and let any criticism fly by - don't think too hard about it. Do that and you'll enjoy the cinematography, editing, acting, the preposterous-ness, some of the humor and the soundtrack (what was the drum beat at the end?). Don't watch it for the plotting or characters.

Just as a possible answer to a couple of these points:

I think it's been shown that Hank isn't in the right state of mind to be doing much of anything properly. The scene when his daughter goes over to his house and sees all the cryptic writing all over the walls? That was clearly supposed to illustrate that.

Maybe I need to go back and watch both episodes (since the timeline isn't shown to completion until both had aired) but IT seemed like they were in no hurry to get there since according to Hank the Gerhardt's had left. I'm fairly certain they didn't drive over to Ed's house right away

Hanzee shooting people isn't at all unusual for this show. It trades in acts of violence. Always has always will. I seriously doubt the showrunners "backed" themselves into a corner with last seasons massacre talk and are now just throwing Hanzee at people to fix the problem. They have an idea where they are going with him and every other character.

I'll give you Peggy zoning out. It seemed a little easy BUT she did have a conversation with an imaginary man in Dodd's place not 24 hours before so does it really stretch credulity that much that she wouldn't notice?

Dodd keeping her alive? That actually makes total sense for his character. He's a misogynist, as you yourself pointed out (which wasn't new to this episode, he's been subjecting his daughter and mother to it all season) who sees women as Satan. He clearly doesn't think they're capable of intelligent thought. No threat to him. You argued that he was already taken down by her so he should be wise now but that would be underestimating how highly he thinks of himself. The man thinks no one can take him on certainly not a woman. I'm sure he saw it as dumb luck the first time and it wouldn't happen again. Just my opinion but that seems totally on point with who his character has been all season.

Hanzee didn't shoot the store owner because the store owner told him what he wanted to hear and wasn't a complete bigot. He may be brutal but he wasn't killing without compunction until the bar. He was tired of the mistreatment which was the EXACT reason why he chose to kill Dodd....and why he wanted to get the haircut and run away. I have no doubt had he had the chance and a little time he would have slipped away easily regardless of whether or not the store owner identified him. Has he given you the impression at all this season that he's worried about cops finding him or his ability to get away with violence when he needs to? No I didn't think so

As for the cops....which ones? The two who actually give a shit about finding them? Hank, who we established isn't all there and Lou. Sioux Falls don't give a shit. Christ that other cop doesn't want to have anything to do with any of the stuff going on. SO basically it's left to Lou to handle a gang war, an assassin indian on the run AND the crazy couple. Gotta prioritize homie.

I think it's sad that you would actually be disheartened by other people enjoying this show. I for one certainly watch it (and all Cohen bros films) thinking of them as taking place in a parallel universe to our with just a smidge of Looney Tunes in it but to say that the plot or characters are poorly written is just not knowing how to find the subtlety underneath the bombast

I wanted to add an addendum to your later post
Fargo is a perfect example for a show where the characters serve the plot, no matter how stupidly and ridiculously the events and characters need to be twisted to hit that plot. What's generally considered as good\competent writing doesn't have it or minimizes it. Fargo relishes in it. Every other show gets torn apart doing that kind of stuff; Fargo gets lauded. It's bad writing, bad plotting, paper-thin characters all in the service of the plot.

Please explain this dissonance between Fargo and everything else, where the former's fault and flaws get ignored or marginalized. It was the same for S1.
Like i said, you can enjoy Fargo but it's disparaging to watch it being praised as this or that despite it's bag of issues that sadly gets swept under the carpet.

You're on point that Fargo is a show about characters first and plot second but I think that's in keeping with the tone of most of the Coehn brother's films. They've always relished putting "regular" people in uncomfortable or unbelievable circumstances and this show is certainly trying to emulate that. I can understand not appreciating the show because of this, and even because of some of the reasons you stated earlier, but it's not disparaging by any stretch that it would receive praise for executing what it sets out to do marvelously well. The show is a technical masterpiece (this season) unlike anything I've seen on television before so it should be getting lauded just for that but if people can appreciate the wonderful writing as well why is that so insulting?

Bad art is always subjective sometimes that shit is just bad and everyone knows it but at some point you have to ask yourself why am I the only one that feels this way about the show? Are there merits to it I'm not picking up on? Is it just not my cup of tea? I'd argue for you it's the latter and you're letting it get in the way of your judgement.
 

-griffy-

Banned
Fargo is a perfect example for a show where the characters serve the plot, no matter how stupidly and ridiculously the events and characters need to be twisted to hit that plot.

No, the Walking Dead is a perfect example of that. Characters constantly do stupid things that don't make sense because the plot necessitates they do them. All character actions in Fargo make logical sense in the context of the story and those characters, and those character actions drive the plot forward. The characters are imperfect people that make mistakes, the show addresses that. It's practically one of the core themes of what a Fargo story is. It is literally the opposite of what you complain about.
 
No, the Walking Dead is a perfect example of that. Characters constantly do stupid things that don't make sense because the plot necessitates they do them. All character actions in Fargo make logical sense in the context of the story and those characters, and those character actions drive the plot forward. The characters are imperfect people that make mistakes, the show addresses that. It's practically one of the core themes of what a Fargo story is. It is literally the opposite of what you complain about.

Thank you. This is exactly one of the points I brought up. The Coen brothers movies have always been about normal people in extraordinary circumstances and Fargo is no different. The show is based (in spirit at least ) on one of their movies so of course it's character driven.
 
- Good to have it settled Hank was being an awful stupid cop not checking on Peggy before leaving.

He was smashed in the head with the butt of a rifle and was clearly concussed. Hence, why he was taken away in an ambulance. Plus, he awoke and went to the station first because of the distress call about the ambush. Stupid, not really. Sloppy, perhaps.

- Fat Edd, who was already tired from running away from the police station, outruns a car!!!!! Amazing. Hank and Lou had a car, started from the same position, knowing where Ed goes, against a tired and 'heavyset' person -- who then had to carry Dodd's body from the basement to a car! -- and they still getting there before Peg and Ed leavs! HOLY SHIT.

Ed and Lou were not running away from the police station. They were shown twice quietly walking through the woods so as not to attract any attention to themselves. The only time Ed runs is after Hank pulls up in the car. Granted, it's still a bit of a stretch that he gets to the house before them. If I were writing it, I'd have Lou take Hank to hospital first. After all, he's not just a coworker but his father in law as well. That would better explain Ed and Peg having time to get away.
- 'Damn it, we dubbed it a 'massacre' in S1, so we got start dropping bodies'. Cue Hanzee going over the edge and shooting everybody on sight.

Well, he shoots two dudes in the knees and lets one run away. Kills the bartender, two cops and kills Dodd. So he shot 6 people and killed 4. Excessive, but not exactly a massacre and certainly not "everybody on sight."

- Dunno whatever that Peggy zoning-out supposed to mean but good thing it happened. Why, how else can we have Dodd escape!

Peggy being whacked has been well established both prior to this episode and at the very beginning of this one. Her zoning out is not a shock.

- Dodd leaving Peggy alive and turning his back to her even after recognizing she's a threat and delighting in the thought of killing her. You see, he's just misogynist enough for us to have a convenient 'turning of the tables' scene.

Dodd doesn't recognize any woman as a threat. And it has been well established that he is misogynistic.
- Hanzee shoots everybody except the store owner that has the newspaper and phone next to him. You see, he's just sloppy enough because how else are we going have the cops raid the cabin and have Hanzee flee? How else are we going to go through with the plot we wanted to at the expense of everything else?

Already noted that Hanzee did not "shoot everybody."

- Cops are sitting on their hands doing nothing to find Peggy and Ed. Thank god for that phone call!

Not sure what this is supposed to even mean. Cops work on phone tips all the time, even more so back in '79.

I don't know how to put it. It's sad people look at this as 'best show ever' material. There's fun to be had watching Fargo. You just need to check-out your brain and let any criticism fly by - don't think too hard about it. Do that and you'll enjoy the cinematography, editing, acting, the preposterous-ness, some of the humor and the soundtrack (what was the drum beat at the end?). Don't watch it for the plotting or characters.

I don't look at it as the best show ever. But I do think it's really good. I'd probably rate Breaking Bad higher, but horror of horrors, that had even more suspension of disbelief than this. (The melting bath tub, the plane that crashes right over Walter's house, Death by ATM etc. etc.) Again, your general complaints can be leveled at just about any show or creative medium ever. "How convenient that X happened because of something person Y did!" Yep, there's fun to be had at watching Fargo. I'd say you're not having it. But I suppose your fun comes in getting on the internet and being the contrarian.
 
The only issue I have so far is Dodd's daughter being killed by Bear. It would've been great to see Dodd find out and the two confront each other. Or maybe Dodd would've have cared since she's a "whore". Seems like a pivotal plot point to just quickly disappear.

As for Hanzee, I don't buy the Peggy driving the scissors into his neck. I think he just wanted to leave and start a new life somewhere. Also, not sure whether he would've let Peggy and Ed live if the cops didn't show up, even though it makes the audience suggest he was going to let them live.
 
The fact remains unchanged: Hanzee would like to be alive and free and alone with Peggy, Edd and Dodd. So him not killing the guy who can identify him, call the police and point them to where he went is trash.

Maybe he doesn't like killing innocent people? His actions at the cabin made it look like he wanted to get away from the life he has been living as well.
 
The only issue I have so far is Dodd's daughter being killed by Bear. It would've been great to see Dodd find out and the two confront each other. Or maybe Dodd would've have cared since she's a "whore". Seems like a pivotal plot point to just quickly disappear.

Yeah, that disappointed me as well. Mostly because I wanted a big Bear/Dodd showdown at the end.
 
Maybe he doesn't like killing innocent people? His actions at the cabin made it look like he wanted to get away from the life he has been living as well.

He did seem somewhat reluctant to take aim at one of the cops during the station siege when they went to grab Ed. although to be honest I can't remember if that was just the lights being turned off so he couldn't get a shot.

I also have this terrible nightmare that he'll come across some kid and briefly monologue to him, imparting his world view and the like, and for that kid to grow up to be Malvo.
 
Onion A|V Club's "Polite Fight" video series:

- Is there such a thing as too much Fargo analysis?
On this week’s Polite Fight, Gus asks John how far critical viewers can or should push their analyses of a show’s smallest details—like two quick jump cuts that caught Gus’ eye in Monday night’s episode of Fargo. The short answer, by our hosts’ reckoning, is to trust your instincts. This talk of fixating on small details leads Gus, with the help of a commenter, to point out a few unobtrusive nods to the show’s elusive alien presence, and John finally asks the million dollar question: Does this season of Fargo need to resolve its UFO references into something concrete?

John then takes a line from Peggy’s hallucinated self-help guru to articulate one of Fargo’s most important preoccupations, the postmodern notion of, as John puts it, the “detachment of signifier from signified.” Gus links that idea to the title of this episode, “Loplop,” which a commenter illuminated in the discussion thread for Zack Handlen’s review. We finish with a quick observation on the ever-versatile split screen and a commenter, who connects Fargo to Stephen King by way of John Carpenter.
 

pj

Banned
The latest episode was funny, but I think it's out of place with the rest of the series. I'm kind of surprised the cabin scenes didn't have a laugh track. They definitely went a couple steps too far with the silliness.

No, the Walking Dead is a perfect example of that. Characters constantly do stupid things that don't make sense because the plot necessitates they do them. All character actions in Fargo make logical sense in the context of the story and those characters, and those character actions drive the plot forward. The characters are imperfect people that make mistakes, the show addresses that. It's practically one of the core themes of what a Fargo story is. It is literally the opposite of what you complain about.

What is the context that makes sense of Peggy's decision to drive away from the scene when she hit that Caulkin boy? If the reason is "because she's nuts", then she could do literally anything and it would make "logical sense"
 

-griffy-

Banned
The latest episode was funny, but I think it's out of place with the rest of the series. I'm kind of surprised the cabin scenes didn't have a laugh track. They definitely went a couple steps too far with the silliness.



What is the context that makes sense of Peggy's decision to drive away from the scene when she hit that Caulkin boy? If the reason is "because she's nuts", then she could do literally anything and it would make "logical sense"

The context is that when you learn more about her character, you realize she's delusional and has aspirations for a fantasy life, seeking a catch-all cure for what she perceives as her unfulfilling and boring life, and unable to perceive or face the problems directly in front of her (stealing TP, hoarding magazines). When she hits Rye, she hopes if she simply ignores the problem it will go away by itself, while also subconsciously creating a new problem that will allow her to escape from her current life. It ticks both her character flaw and character desire, thereby making perfect sense in the context of her character.
 
Top Bottom