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Fargo - Season 2 - a new true crime chapter takes us to 1979 Sioux Falls - Mon on FX
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
No way, I've watched several interviews of him with his normal voice, but I didn't know. Hah. That's pretty cool. But I hardly think it meant anything, just an easter eggs for those who recognised his voice.
Cornballer
Member
- Fargo: In Memoriam (youtube)
People defending the UFO, the horrendous tie ins to season 1 and the Hanzer face transplant are so caught up in their own farts it's hilarious to read. I liked this season a lot until this shit turned its ugly head around the corner and it retroactively ruined it for me.
The whole "it's an absurdist reality" argument is total shit. There's a difference between absurd coincidence (like the movie Fargo or stuff like Jackie Brown or Pulp Fiction) and just simply bending the rules of storytelling to the point of it becoming "HEY LET'S JUST DO WHATEVER THE FUCK". Just because you claim to be an expert on everything Coen doesn't make it justified that some of the most crucial plot decisions are forced upon us by a HUGE ALIEN SHIP IN THE SKY. It's almost embarrassing how big and sticky the Coen Brothers circle jerk is around the writers room at this show. Like the deaf kids playing baseball in the last episode for example. They couldn't just be kids.. Oh no! It has to be quirky and Coen-y. Let's make them deaf!
Awful finale. That Hanzee thing.. I'm laughing it's so bad.
The whole "it's an absurdist reality" argument is total shit. There's a difference between absurd coincidence (like the movie Fargo or stuff like Jackie Brown or Pulp Fiction) and just simply bending the rules of storytelling to the point of it becoming "HEY LET'S JUST DO WHATEVER THE FUCK". Just because you claim to be an expert on everything Coen doesn't make it justified that some of the most crucial plot decisions are forced upon us by a HUGE ALIEN SHIP IN THE SKY. It's almost embarrassing how big and sticky the Coen Brothers circle jerk is around the writers room at this show. Like the deaf kids playing baseball in the last episode for example. They couldn't just be kids.. Oh no! It has to be quirky and Coen-y. Let's make them deaf!
Awful finale. That Hanzee thing.. I'm laughing it's so bad.
I agree. I find the UFO thing much worse than the Hanzee 'reveal', because of its bigger impact on the plot, but the Hanzee thing is so absolutely bizarre to me. Why did Hawley bend over backwards for such a pointless connection?
Fancy Clown
Member
Finally watched the finale. Overall I like it for the most part(apart from the Hanzee thing...). I thought it was a much better finale than season 1's, since my issue with the first season was that everything ended wayyyy too neat and tidy, both morally and otherwise. Everyone got exactly the fate they deserved and everything was tied up with a bow. This was a lot messier and more ambiguous, which is fitting for the more complex and ambitious season. I particularly loved how Mike's arc ended. He wild wests his whole way through the show, only to be rewarded with a 9-5 desk job--something he is particularly ill suited for. It's fantastically ironic.
Overall, the season is one of the best pieces of tv I've seen, although I still think some of the turns in the last two episodes were a little disappointing so it definitely didn't fully capitalize on its full potential. But still a near flawless run of 8 episodes is nothing to knock, and the final two weren't bad. Hopefully for season 3 they are able to build on what they learned even further and fully stick the landing.
Still not sure how I feel about the UFO stuff. Didn't really like its inclusion in the penultimate episode, but I kind of like how low key they played it off in the finale. Still really don't like the narrator in the prior episode. I think that one was by far the weakest episode of the season.
Overall, the season is one of the best pieces of tv I've seen, although I still think some of the turns in the last two episodes were a little disappointing so it definitely didn't fully capitalize on its full potential. But still a near flawless run of 8 episodes is nothing to knock, and the final two weren't bad. Hopefully for season 3 they are able to build on what they learned even further and fully stick the landing.
Still not sure how I feel about the UFO stuff. Didn't really like its inclusion in the penultimate episode, but I kind of like how low key they played it off in the finale. Still really don't like the narrator in the prior episode. I think that one was by far the weakest episode of the season.
Cornballer
Member
.Noah Hawley said:
Only 1 is deaf and the two kids are supposed to be the 2 killers from season 1 but in child form.
Kind of agree about the Hanzee twist though.
Personally I LOVED the UFO.
As people pointed out above, it wasn't needed...but that's the genius of it. The main plot points it interfered with; the judge assassination that started the whole thing and saving the cop against bear, were minor quibbles. The kid already heavily botched the assassination so the writers could have just written him getting hit. And the Bear vs cop scene was already in the slightly unreal realm when he took 5 bullets up close and kept running.
If there was a whole alien abduction scene...etc...id understand the issues with suspension of belief. But there are much bigger Deus Ex Machina's that take place in other 'premier' tv shows that don't get slack. The aliens impact is basically some light that distracted two characters for two seconds each...its not a deal breaker. Its a small quirky aspect in an already quirk show.
That said, one of the best seasons ive seen in television ever
As people pointed out above, it wasn't needed...but that's the genius of it. The main plot points it interfered with; the judge assassination that started the whole thing and saving the cop against bear, were minor quibbles. The kid already heavily botched the assassination so the writers could have just written him getting hit. And the Bear vs cop scene was already in the slightly unreal realm when he took 5 bullets up close and kept running.
If there was a whole alien abduction scene...etc...id understand the issues with suspension of belief. But there are much bigger Deus Ex Machina's that take place in other 'premier' tv shows that don't get slack. The aliens impact is basically some light that distracted two characters for two seconds each...its not a deal breaker. Its a small quirky aspect in an already quirk show.
That said, one of the best seasons ive seen in television ever
It's weird but I don't think the UFO has that much affect on the plot. It distracts Rye, Bear, and Hanzee but really it's not crucial. Each of those incidents is pretty minor. Rye could have just been in a stupor after what he did, Lou could have got the gun sooner and Hanzee could have been caught by surprise Lou shooting Bear, giving the same small window for Peggy to scald him. I don't particularly like the UFO either even if it does add to the surrealist bent but since it could be excised so easily, it's not such a big deal me either.
The Hanzee/Tripoli stuff is worse since it doesn't seem to add anything.
Coffee Dog
Banned
The UFO ties into the central themes of the season in a way the hanzee stuff doesn't. It's far better. If you took the UFO stuff out I think you'd be missing the greatest intrusion of the core themes of unknown outside interference into the lives of the characters outside of the brief Reagan diversion.
Ampersands
Member
Been reading through this thread when I started the show on Sunday and now I've finally reached the end. The show (and the thread) were very entertaining. I have this to say:
I loved the UFO. They set it up perfectly and gave it just enough presence to make it enjoyable. I felt this season was very good at fulfilling expectations whether it was plot, character, or otherwise.
There are plotholes which, although not story-destroying, are undeniably present. I think the overall cohesiveness of the art direction and characters helped smooth over these cracks, so they don't really bother me when all's said and done.
I didn't like the narration shift of the final few episodes. I got used to the montage style openings so maybe I was just reluctant to see them go.
The characters were fantastic. I really appreciate how the humor can come through without straying from the personalities they've defined for the characters. Kirsten Dunst was amazing as Peggy and definitely deserves an Emmy for her role. Her character was the kind of stupid that, in the hands of an unconvincing actor, would've been obnoxious (like those Fargo cops). Lou's wife deserves more praise too.
Most of the references, Coen and S1, went over my head. In my viewing of the final episode, I actually fast-forwarded (DVR) past the scenes where Mike gets an office job and Hanzee becomes Tripoli. It was only this thread that enlightened me to that (and many other references), and I have to say, those revelations soured my impression of the show. I agree with most others that the show works perfectly standalone.
The final episode should've ended when the Fargo theme kicks in. The presence of the UFO made me believe that the show doesn't need to explain everything so it threw me off when they basically did that in the end.
Overall, very impressed with this show. Can't wait til Season 3!
I loved the UFO. They set it up perfectly and gave it just enough presence to make it enjoyable. I felt this season was very good at fulfilling expectations whether it was plot, character, or otherwise.
There are plotholes which, although not story-destroying, are undeniably present. I think the overall cohesiveness of the art direction and characters helped smooth over these cracks, so they don't really bother me when all's said and done.
I didn't like the narration shift of the final few episodes. I got used to the montage style openings so maybe I was just reluctant to see them go.
The characters were fantastic. I really appreciate how the humor can come through without straying from the personalities they've defined for the characters. Kirsten Dunst was amazing as Peggy and definitely deserves an Emmy for her role. Her character was the kind of stupid that, in the hands of an unconvincing actor, would've been obnoxious (like those Fargo cops). Lou's wife deserves more praise too.
Most of the references, Coen and S1, went over my head. In my viewing of the final episode, I actually fast-forwarded (DVR) past the scenes where Mike gets an office job and Hanzee becomes Tripoli. It was only this thread that enlightened me to that (and many other references), and I have to say, those revelations soured my impression of the show. I agree with most others that the show works perfectly standalone.
The final episode should've ended when the Fargo theme kicks in. The presence of the UFO made me believe that the show doesn't need to explain everything so it threw me off when they basically did that in the end.
Overall, very impressed with this show. Can't wait til Season 3!
On episode 7 right now and I'm really not enjoying it. It's still a good show, but compared to the first one it's very dissapointing. The characters don't really do it for me and the story line isn't really that gripping. Maybe it will get better in the next three episodes but I doubt it.
Looks nice. Thanks for the recommendation.
So, I'm five episodes into season 2...
And I think it's good, but I really don't think the season is as strong as the first. That could change, but I'm actually surprised how in love most are with season 2 when it feels like a bit of a plod, anchored by some boring characters and Kirsten Dunst, who is probably the most "interesting" character in the show, as challenging as that character is.
I'm about to start watching episode 6, and I hope I start loving it as much as everyone else, but man, I'm kind of bummed out.
And I think it's good, but I really don't think the season is as strong as the first. That could change, but I'm actually surprised how in love most are with season 2 when it feels like a bit of a plod, anchored by some boring characters and Kirsten Dunst, who is probably the most "interesting" character in the show, as challenging as that character is.
I'm about to start watching episode 6, and I hope I start loving it as much as everyone else, but man, I'm kind of bummed out.
bobbyrawlins
Banned
Same. There were a handful of cool moments throughout, but I never saw whatever the fuck everybody else saw. Season 1 > season 2 and it's not even close.
brianjones
Member
i might be in the minority but i liked the second season better
STILLethal
Member
Season 1 > Season 2
Billy Bob, nuff said
Billy Bob, nuff said
ftfy
The Silver
Member
Just binged this season and I loved it a lot more than season 1.(which to me was mostly held up by Malvo)
I had to pause for a minute when the actual goddamn UFO flying saucer showed up, I really liked it though and how it ties in to the real life UFO sightings that were going on around that time. The narrator coming in, making the events seem like a story being told helped alleviate the craziness of the UFO.
It seemed like they were going in the direction of Hanzee becoming Malvo but then he's actually Tripoli(who I did not remember at all and had to look him up again). The guy Hanzee was talking to telling him about how his empire will fall like all the rest sealed it to me that it really was him and not some decoy.
He didn't get to go out like some badass, hardly anyone does. An injured shell of Malvo gets shot in a cabin by some cop Malvo previously put the fear of god into. Dodd gets unexpectedly shot in the head after he's held hostage by the most bumbling lucky criminals in history, Rye gets run over by some random woman on the road, Lester just falls in an iced over lake, Hanzee let his success slow him down(made him fat and more complacent) and he gets shot in his office by a better more efficient killer than him.
I had to pause for a minute when the actual goddamn UFO flying saucer showed up, I really liked it though and how it ties in to the real life UFO sightings that were going on around that time. The narrator coming in, making the events seem like a story being told helped alleviate the craziness of the UFO.
It seemed like they were going in the direction of Hanzee becoming Malvo but then he's actually Tripoli(who I did not remember at all and had to look him up again). The guy Hanzee was talking to telling him about how his empire will fall like all the rest sealed it to me that it really was him and not some decoy.
He didn't get to go out like some badass, hardly anyone does. An injured shell of Malvo gets shot in a cabin by some cop Malvo previously put the fear of god into. Dodd gets unexpectedly shot in the head after he's held hostage by the most bumbling lucky criminals in history, Rye gets run over by some random woman on the road, Lester just falls in an iced over lake, Hanzee let his success slow him down(made him fat and more complacent) and he gets shot in his office by a better more efficient killer than him.
Butts-a-plenty
Banned
I think Malvo got exactly what he wanted in the end. He made Gus chose to kill.
toythatkills
Member
I don't know how I felt about that episode. It was very watchable television but at the same time it gave us nothing that we didn't already know until about five minutes before the end.
I don't think I agree. I think Malvo still wanted and expected to be one step ahead and not be shot. For him survival and to keep on terrorizing another day was more important than getting one over on Gus, who was a mere pawn to him as he saw him up till that point.
RastaMentality
Banned
Season 2 was phenomenal and it elicited way more reactions out of me than s1 did.
Another forced WINK WINK to season 1 then.
Turin Turambar
Member
I didn't like the fact it was the entire episode... like that. I mean, I liked how it went, but instead of skipping those characters and plot thread in episode 7 and dedicating episode 8 for them, I think it would have been a better choice to mix it up with the other more normal scenes, so it should have been distributed in episode 7 and 8.
Monocle
Member
I agree. Season 2 had an extremely impressive aesthetic and a solid cast, but Season 1's story and characters did so much more for me. Nothing in S2 even approaches the quirky brilliance of Billy Bob Thornton as Malvo, who made a powerful impression on me from the start and remained an absolutely compelling presence throughout the season. Easily one of the greatest villains ever put to screen.
Unlike S1, S2's plot strands didn't come together in a satisfying way, or create anything greater than their parts. All of the coincidences and intrigue, the connections and non sequiturs, finally amounted to a massacre, a couple of punch lines, and some hamfisted tie-ins to S1. Where was the poetic inevitability we had in Lester Nygaard's fate, the bittersweet victories of Molly Solverson and Gus Grimly, the mythical quality that pervaded Lorne Malvo's impish manipulations and their consequences? Compared to S1, S2 is grander in scope but slighter in effect. Both seasons are cascades of folly, but S1 had something extra: themes and currents working under the surface, building to something more profound than an ending or an answer, or the next chapter. It was a parable in the making, a story about much more than its finite facts and details.
This is why S1's strange happenings, like the fish falling from the sky, didn't break my suspension of disbelief like S2's UFO. S1 always had one foot in Biblical myth or folklore and the other on solid ground, and its mysteries were earned. S2's UFO shows up out of nowhere in the first episode and puts the season's major events into motion. That's a poor start for a series that previously anchored itself in human nature and relatable motives. S1 commenced with a long suffering husband giving in to a dark impulse with a little nudge from a stranger. S2 cheapens its promising start at the diner with... what? A shared hallucination? Actual aliens? The UFO's appearance in the final episode is just as inexplicable. It contributes nothing to the story, actually diluting the human drama, and it raises distracting questions. The UFO is there for audiences to nod in recognition and say, "Oh yeah, people were going nutty over UFOs back then." It's shoehorned pop weirdness no better than the same in American Horror Story: Asylum. A poor substitute for the authentically mysterious elements in Season 1, where nature and chance appeared to be on the devil's side.
Monocle
Member
Thanks. That's interesting, and more frustrating in a way, since it confirms the alien thing was a truly contrived tangent. Not worth the minor payoff of Peggy's great line, "It's just a flying saucer, Ed." Definitely not worth the clumsy stab at profundity that was Hank Larsson's weird monologue about his obsession with inventing a symbolic language to end the miscommunication at the heart of human conflict or whatever.
He's not a "good man," Betsy honey, he's a crazy man. What a sad, unfitting endnote for a character who could have represented clear-sighted integrity like Chief Thurman in early S1 (or Molly and Gus, even though Lou kind of takes that role in the second season).
Maybe that's unfair, but the alien angle really rubbed me the wrong way. It doesn't fit Fargo's established universe, which centers on human concerns.
Just finished the season and I really enjoyed it. The finale was actually nice and meditative for the characters, and I just thought overall the show was just fun and excellent plotting. Looking forward to season 3 and I'll definitely check out season 1 some point before its premiere.
Three days ago, I had a fleeting understanding that the show was good. I knew it was shot in my home town and I liked the movie quite a bit.
Fast forward three days.
All caught up.
Show is unbelievable.
The aliens are dumb and added nothing, the Tripoli connection was dumb and added nothing but other than that truly brilliant show.
I love that Ed and Peggy got to experience having a child for a little bit with Dodd.
Season 1 was very straight forward, this one was so layered with relationships and goals that it was unreal they all played out so well.
Typewriters aren't just for women anymore. Remember that, Mr. Milligan.
Fast forward three days.
All caught up.
Show is unbelievable.
The aliens are dumb and added nothing, the Tripoli connection was dumb and added nothing but other than that truly brilliant show.
I love that Ed and Peggy got to experience having a child for a little bit with Dodd.
Season 1 was very straight forward, this one was so layered with relationships and goals that it was unreal they all played out so well.
Typewriters aren't just for women anymore. Remember that, Mr. Milligan.
RustyNails
Member
I can accept Hanzee's about turn. I dont need everything telegraphed to show why someone could go the way Hanzee did. There was a definite resentment from the way he was treat like shit and dirt despite returning from Vietnam as a war hero. I can also accept Peggy's zany-ness. But the UFO shit is absolutely unacceptable. It's not even subtle, like crazy shit going inside Peggy's head or something. No. Rye and Bear, two central characters are killed directly as a result of the UFO. Maybe the creators were trying to tap into the UFO hysteria around early 80s or the Roswell Incident. But to use it as a plot mcguffin was totally unacceptable. That's like a cardinal sin of filmmaking.
As my wife and I watched the 9th episode, I said "is there only UFOs when Peggy is on screen?"
Kieran saw it and immediately got smashed by her, then the big shootout.
Was wondering if some of it was filtered through her insane brain. But the convo at Lous house destroyed that.
Kieran saw it and immediately got smashed by her, then the big shootout.
Was wondering if some of it was filtered through her insane brain. But the convo at Lous house destroyed that.
Oh, and the only disappointment I had was no Lou getting shot giving him his limp.
Also, sitting on the porch waiting for someone, knowing they were coming...
Or wait, he did wait and they didn't come that night. So maybe just the being shot thing. Traffic Stop in Sioux Falls actually being a huge shootout with a UFO sighting that makes him go "yo, fuck this I'm opening a diner".
Also, sitting on the porch waiting for someone, knowing they were coming...
Or wait, he did wait and they didn't come that night. So maybe just the being shot thing. Traffic Stop in Sioux Falls actually being a huge shootout with a UFO sighting that makes him go "yo, fuck this I'm opening a diner".
I'm late here, but thank you. You've pointed out exactly why this doesn't work at all. One of my favorite seasons of tv ever and it completely nosedived in the last two episodes from the narration blatantly spelling things out, to the pointless UFO gimmick, to the completely ridiculous and forced Tripoli thing. It seems like Hawley got caught way up his own butt with the ending and retroactively ruined the whole season for me.Then I remember how much the season heavily reuses exact shots and motifs from all the Coen movies and wonder if the show was ever as good this season as I thought. Plus, the Coens are always a lot more subtle with their surreal humor.
Though, in the deaf kids (kid, most likely), that was a nod to Wrench and Numbers from S1, as they both worked for Tripoli.
RustyNails
Member
Highlight of the season, and the best episode by far was the town drunk Lawyer dude going in to represent Ed in the county jail. The writing. My god. I was laughing so hard at all of his lines.
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
Yo, that season was TIGHT. Loved it. Peggy and Mike Milligan definitely my favorite characters.
Not sure if this is a spoiler thread, so:
Not sure if this is a spoiler thread, so:
Really wanted to see Ed and Peggy escape.
And lol at the whole UFO bit.
And lol at the whole UFO bit.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
I'm about 7 episodes in, goddamn, this show is kind of amazing. The 1st season was good but they elevated their fucking game here, and the cast is killing it.
Solideliquid
Member
Just finished season 2. It's just about my favorite show now.
What are you guys saying about Hanzee and Tripoli? Can someone explain? And does Mike have anything to do with Season 1?
Hanzee has plastic surgery and becomes Tripoli from season one. Those kids on the baseball diamond are Wrench and Numbers from S1. Mike has no direct connection to S1 that we know of. ☺
Solideliquid
Member
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