captainclutch777
Member
Well isn't the PS5 SSD around twice the speed? So half that? I'm not an expert, just going off the data that seems to be going around.
Faster loading (ps5) vs more power (xsx) ?
- Thread starter skneogaf
- Start date
Well isn't the PS5 SSD around twice the speed? So half that? I'm not an expert, just going off the data that seems to be going around.
MrFunSocks
Banned
The difference in load times will make literally zero difference to games. The difference in power will.
Xbox wins this.
Xbox wins this.
wordslaughter
Banned
That would be the absolute best case scenario yes - Whatever the XSX load time is in seconds, cut that in half and there's your PS5 load time.
On PC it definitely doesn't work that way, but we'll know for sure by November.
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loktaiextatus
Member
So you think cutting loading times in half, being able to stream an area twice as quickly and other things will mean less to games than a slightly, slightly crisper image that digital foundry
will point out by zooming in, that is a smaller difference than the difference between TV brands?
MrFunSocks
Banned
But when you say "cutting loading times in half, being able to stream an area twice as quickly" we're talking milliseconds if it's something that affects the game design. It won't make any difference as both are fast enough for that. The Unreal 5 demo wasn't even maxing out a regular SSD, let alone the Series X's I/O system.
wordslaughter
Banned
You are assuming the difference in performance between the two will be so small as to be unnoticeable.
That may not be true.
But probably more accurately - Sometimes the difference will be unnoticeable while in other games the difference will definitely be noticeable. There is still so much we don't know yet. Does the PS5 have VRS? Are they both equal in raytracing or not? Maybe one of them has developed a competitor to DLSS while the other hasn't. etc.
loktaiextatus
Member
Why would it be milliseconds. have you seen the Xbox series X load something in milliseconds? No we're talking cutting 40 seconds into 20 seconds or
being able to build an area with confidence in streaming assets so quickly you may not need the loading screen at all.
The unreal demo has nothing to do with this. You are pointing out something ironically very much applicable to the floating point operations.
Youre talking about locking a game to 60fps on the series X ... for the PS5 not to be able to get close to the same number it must mean the series X is totally maxed out
and is hitting 60fps with every percent of its GPU. If the Series X is running a game at 60FPS locked but it is actually capable of hitting 70fps the PS5 will also
hit 60fps if the floating point operations are your only metric.
MrFunSocks
Banned
So you think that games are going to be designed around loading an area in 20 seconds? Lol no. For it to be a factor in game design it has to be instant, which is where milliseconds comes into it.
I have no idea where you got any of that "locking a game to 60fps" crap from, I didn't say a word about that.
loktaiextatus
Member
Maybe this maybe that. All we know now is the difference is less than HALF that of the PS4 pro and Xbox one X and the Xbox is at a major speed disadvantage in I/O.
Weather EITHER manifests depends on the games- but even when power is not an issue you run into times when it equalizes. Look at resident evil 3 on the pro and X
they eventually dropped the resolution because the one X could not hold steady at true 4k even though the PS4 Pro is a third less capable by the terraflop metric.
loktaiextatus
Member
Im giving you examples of real world power differences. And its not "crap" its literal truth as anyone who has EVER enabled VSYNC on a PC would know perfectly well.
The Xbox series X has yet to show any game loading in a second or two.... as opposed to the rumors of the PS5 loading games like Kena in a few seconds menu to in-game
or moving between areas in spiderman in less than a second.
wordslaughter
Banned
Yeah. Moving from HDD to SSD was singnificant. But after that, the improvements have been lackluster. Moving from a regular SSD to a very fast NVMe does not provide much benefit to load times.
BUT ... maybe there are some IO improvements going on in the consoles that the PC doesn't have yet?
We'll find out soon. There's definitely going to be a TON of loading time comparions between the PS5 and XSX... but also with PC added. If you have a fast PC with a PCIe 4.0 NVMe will it load games as fast as the consoles? Or do we have to wait for Microsoft to make some "under the hood" improvements to Windows before we see real improvements? I'm genuinely curious.
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loktaiextatus
Member
Literally no PC gamer is going to buy a new video card for a 15 percent increase in floating point at the cost of fill rate....
They may however upgrade from a PCIE 3.0 SSD to a PCIE 4.0 SSD for double the transfer speed.
I think the PS5 loading will be close to twice as fast. They spent a lot of their budget on that aspect so would be a bit of a problem if it's, say, only 20% faster in real terms.
Let's face it, shorter load times are objectively better.
That said, it doesn't outweigh the power for me. I've replayed some older games in recent times on a One X where loading times have been pretty snappy compared to the original games. It's a nice QoL improvement but I'd swap better graphics for shorter load times.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Really depends on the difference. If we're talking a 20% power reduction in exchange for going from 10 seconds loading to instantaneous, I'll take the faster (or lack of) load times any day of the week. But if we're talking about a 20% power reduction in exchange for a 20% reduction in loading times (or even halving them), I'd probably take the extra power.
ThatOneGrunt
Member
Load times look incredibly fast on the XSX. Just a few seconds for BC titles not running virtually and not utilizing the full power of the console. I can live with that.
If I choose "power", I get the best of both worlds. XsX all day long.
If I choose "power", I get the best of both worlds. XsX all day long.
Vawn
Banned
Let's wait and see real world examples.
If I can visually notice the difference with my naked eye, I'd vote more power. If that difference is only apparent if I watch a DF video first, it's meaningless.
Chances are I'll easily be able to notice the faster SSD, but not any graphical fidelity differences without staring hard at two images side by side.
But in the end, who cares? Games. That's ALL that really matters.
If I can visually notice the difference with my naked eye, I'd vote more power. If that difference is only apparent if I watch a DF video first, it's meaningless.
Chances are I'll easily be able to notice the faster SSD, but not any graphical fidelity differences without staring hard at two images side by side.
But in the end, who cares? Games. That's ALL that really matters.
wordslaughter
Banned
Those are some EXTREME apples to oranges comparisons you are making.
You are comparing actual XSX load times shown so far to *RUMORS* of how fast the PS5 can load Kena. 1. Different games completely. 2. Who says the XSX can't load Kena in "a few seconds" just like the PS5?
And in your second sentence you are comparing a PS exclusive to ... your imagination that the XSX couldn't do it as fast... but it's an exclusive so we'll never know.
Some first class mental gymnastics going on here.
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DavidGzz
Gold Member
It will also really come down to how a particular dev optimizes a game on each console. Will the XSX have 60 vs. 50 fps on PS5 or vice versa depending on resolution? Is 5 seconds less of a wait worth 10 frames if you're only loading once every 30 minutes? Comes down to a matter of opinion but opinions will change depending on your preferred platform.
loktaiextatus
Member
No mental gymnastics involved at all. What do you expect to compare? PS5 games running on Xbox to Xbox games running on switch?
This whole thread is " whats better " and unfortunately youre going to compare apples and oranges when its two different systems.
15% isnt apples and oranges though we have real examples of 15 percent differences in GPU power and what they do for games and
especially what they do in locked FPS situations... which is to say you must have the "Faster" gpu really pushed to its limit to hit a frame rate cap that a 15 percent
slower card cant hit . Do we have examples right now? No. But the thread asks for a vote, the thread asks for a comparison. Should we wait? Sure.
What we do know is the I/O is double the speed. Is it magic special sauce? No. We know the throughput is there, we know about it on PC, we know the
mechanisms by which it works and can move data.
Why are you so resistant to giving the PS5 its I/O advantage, but I am sure you're not at all worried that the 15 percent will manifest itself in obvious ways?
teezzy
Banned
Tell a PC player that they can either gain 5 to 10 extra FPS or trim their load times by 5 seconds, and see which one they pick. I don't think the results will be what you think.
loktaiextatus
Member
I am a PC player. If youre already at 100FPS going to 105FPS would mean a hell of a lot less than cutting a loading time from 20 seconds to 10, opening games in half the time....
Who is this magical mystical PC gamer? Some professional PC gamer?
No PC gamer who has a 10.3TF video card is going to buy as their next upgrade a 12.1 TF card. They'd hardly consider it an upgrade.
But a whole different generation of storage interface sure is.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
People thinking that the PS5 will have half the loading times of an XSX in third party games are in for a huge disappointment.
wordslaughter
Banned
No. You can absolutely make apples to apples comparisons between the PS5 and XSX. And the honest answer is that we just have to wait a little bit before we can do these tests. But instead you are comparing real XSX loading time OF COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES to a RUMOR of how fast the PS5 can load Kena. And then you compared a PS exclusive to ... your imagination of how fast the XSX would load a PS exclusive.
The PS5 has an IO advantage yes. But it still remains to be seen as to what that IO advantage will mean in actual game loading times.
Does an IO that's 2x fast fast equate to 2x faster loading times? I'm skeptical that the relationship is linear.
loktaiextatus
Member
Well what we do know for sure from GPUs is that Terraflops are not a linear increase either.
going from a 14tf card to a 30tf card is good for about a 40-50 percent increase in FPS comparing to the 3080.... and going from the 3080 to the 3090, a 20 percent terraflop increase
is good for about a 10 percent performance improvement in games.
Bluemaster77
Banned
SSDs have little to impact on core compute (GPU , CPU, RAM speed). SSDs are great for assisting with STREAMING not rendering.
wordslaughter
Banned
So you have decided the difference between the two will be less than 5%? And specifically chose a framerate range that noone would care about anyway? OK. That's not disingenuous of you at all /s.
And while you may be right that most PC gamers wouldn't UPGRADE their GPU from 10 to 12TFLOPS that's NOT the same thing as saying you wouldn't be able to see the difference in performance between them.
Also the difference is 12.2 TFLOPS locked and sustained compared to "boosting up to" 10.2 TFLOPS for unknown amounts of time "when conditions allow." The devil is in the details.
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Bluemaster77
Banned
THIS - Storage performance is NOT linear. Also theres only so fast storage needs to be, understand that its a race to 0. Where as GPUs and CPUs can become infinitely more capable and have scaling demands.
loktaiextatus
Member
See the difference in a frame counter? Sure. See the difference as in "I play this game on a 10.3 TF gpu and the next week I play it on a 12.1tf gpu and I notice a big difference" - No. highly unlikely.
Why are you rounding up 12.15 to 12.2 and rounding down 10.28 to 10.2... sort of shows something.
Bluemaster77
Banned
Storage doesn't work like that. Storage is incredibly complex, expect faster loading on PS5 but not 2x
Bluemaster77
Banned
lol this guy is all over the place.
wordslaughter
Banned
Sure you'd be able to see a difference. If said game can be locked to 60fps on 12.2TFLOPS it's going to be an unlocked 40-60fps on 10.2TFLOPS ( especially since we're NOT talking about a locked 10.2TFLOPS in this case. Only "boosting up to" ). So you'll either have to put up with a variable framerate which is VERY noticeable or you'll have to lower the graphics settings, resolution or both.
loktaiextatus
Member
Ok let me choose a real world frame rate.
Console games get locked at 30, or 60, maybe 120 this generation
If the Xbox is rendering exactly 60fps and the ps5 is rendering exactly fps, is one better?
If one is capable of 68 and the other is capable of 60, and they're both locked. which is better?
If the PS5 can pull out 30FPS and the XBOX can technically do 40- but its locked to 30 because
no way it will hit 60.. .will it be better?
Will you see instances of a game running on 10.3TF at 30 that can hit 60 ( the next common lock point) at 12.2 TF, with the same settings?
No.. that isnt happening.
So where is the improvement?
loktaiextatus
Member
I am not sure if youve ever used a boost mode on a modern video card but those speeds are held pretty much consistently.
I guess you must know better than cerny who said the worst case would be a few percent. So a few percent might be what... dropping from 10.3 to 10.2?
And yet.. I notice you think you can lock at 60 with no dips with 12TF but think losing 15% of your floating point operation equals dropping 30% of your performance.
That doesnt add up.
Stuart360
Member
Although the ssd speed difference on PS5 will be 'super important' going forward, especially if XSX does show noticeable differences in 3rd party face offs, both consoles will still be going from 1-2min loading to 10-20 second loading. So yes one may load faster, but both will show a HUGE advantage over current gen. So for me, it would be the more powerful console.
loktaiextatus
Member
I know , He cant even get his rounding straight. Interesting. yes I know you thought you were being clever but.. yeah not so much.
Mr. Nobody
Member
12 TF of stable RDNA 2 power on a faster storage medium than what most console users have experienced or a Variable amount of power without having to wait an extra 5 seconds of loading. Developers have founds creative ways over the years to hide minutes of loading. Give them more power and let them create something amazing.
CatLady
Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
I appreciate that you're working very hard at selling PS5 SSD/load times, but sorry I'm voting Power.
Threeshotgamer
Banned
I don't give a fuck I just want good games. Preferably on PC but it's not a deal breaker.
wordslaughter
Banned
If the PS5 is capable of just barely locking to 60FPS and the XSX is capable of 80FPS then they will lock both games to 60 but the XSX then has the option of turning up the graphical settings, raytracing, resolution or all of the above.
There's the improvement.
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loktaiextatus
Member
Insane Metal
Member
Speed is king.
I mean... power.
I mean power + speed.
I mean... power.
I mean power + speed.
loktaiextatus
Member
Where are you getting a frame rate drop of 25-33 percent out of the PS5 doing 15 % fewer floating point operations?
Not disingenuous at all ...
loktaiextatus
Member
I appreciate that you're working very hard at selling XBOX's 15% GPU difference but Im voting 100% I/O bandwidth increase.
