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Federal appeals court maintains suspension of Trump’s immigration order

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C

commedieu

Banned
SJurgenson said:
The article being quoted in the tweets is this one on the blog Lawfare.

Having just read it, it's pretty good. I have a few issues with it however.



Straight up, fuck off. A speaker/writer instantly looses all credibility the second they spout the chic alt-right term 'virtue signaling'. A megalomaniac president throws childish tantrums on Twitter and directly questions the legitimacy of the judicial branch multiple times -- then his Justice Department attorneys use the flaccid defense of 'of course the courts can't exercise oversight in this matter' -- and somehow the courts laying the absolutely justified smackdown is 'justice signaling'? Fucking hell.

The quoted statute the tweets are referencing is this one:



The article and tweets quoting it seem to be missing (or ignoring) the fact that the court didn't really have to even consider it at this point. Congress can give any powers they want to give to the President, but that doesn't mean they are legal -- they still have to be constitutional and they still have to be executed for lawful/reasonable/non-discriminatory purposes.

At this early (pre-trial/pre-discovery) stage, the court just sidestepped on this particular issue by determining that there is enough preliminary evidence that the executive order is harmful to the States' interests and the public interest. That decision then justifies the continued effect of the temporary restraining order. The government attorneys completely punted on even trying to justify that the executive order was attempting to execute statutory powers for a reasonable purpose. When questioned on what the particular need was for immediately enacting the executive order and requesting an emergency stay of the TRO, they never answered -- they just gave the bullshit argument that the court can't review it, 'something something national security something separation of powers something'.

It did not matter to the court, when considering this early-stage motion to grant a stay to the TRO, that Congress enacted that statute -- the Government did not even seriously attempt to justify the need for the executive order in the first place. The ruling went to some length to call them out on that fact, and explicitly says that that government should put up or shut up:



The reason the ruling does not quote or go into depth on the statute is that the Government did not even attempt to justify the EO under the statute with evidence. It's not the court's job to submit evidence and defend the Government's actions -- that's the Justice Department attorney's job, and they didn't do it.
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They said clucking, couselor/solicitor.
 
N

NealMcCauley

Member
Tovarisc said:
Breitbart got exclusive interview with Spicer about this ruling. Spicer doesn't say anything we don't already know, but good on Breitbart for scoring exclusive like this after lid was called.

Here: https://twitter.com/ashleyfeinberg/status/829855768434397187
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God I just watched this. Studio/field production was what I chose for my major's concentration and this would be laughed out of the department. A professor would show it to future classes as a "Don't do this" lesson.
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
SJurgenson said:
The reason the ruling does not quote or go into depth on the statute is that the Government did not even attempt to justify the EO under the statute with evidence. It's not the court's job to submit evidence and defend the Government's actions -- that's the Justice Department attorney's job, and they didn't do it.
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There is no evidence to support the ban, really. They're talking about revising it now apparently and I simply don't see how. We know it's a muslim ban. We know the facts do not justify it and surely didn't factor into the decision (the exclusions speak volumes).

Going even more broad would just get slammed down harder. Going less broad defeats the point and would still fail the evidence test, unless they were to only target the high-risk countries EXCLUDED by the the current ban. I see no way forward here unless maybe they were to specify refugees only. Even then I would hope courts would say fuck off.
 
K

Knoxcore

Member
Fancyarcher said:
It's scary, yes. Our president thought he could be a king, thankfully the law told him otherwise.

Also, I'm not exactly sure this has to lot do with what I just typed, but eh.
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What's more scary is the millions of his supporters who are defending his actions. These poll numbers are frightening.
 
C

canoli2006

Member
There's breaking news on CNN.com right now ah ere Trump was asked if there could be a new immigration executive order to which Trump replied "nothing is off the table." What the heck does that even mean? Scary.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
canoli2006 said:
There's breaking news on CNN.com about a new immigration executive order to which Trump replied "nothing is off the table." What the heck does that even mean? Scary.
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afaik it's in reference them being open to idea of scrapping current EO and writing new, narrower, one. Question / problem is if Trump is too proud to do it.
 
P

Pai Pai Master

Banned
That's basically their only option. they only have 14 days to push this to a broader appeals court or the SCOTUS. If they couldn't provide a valid oral argument for this thing by now, there's no way they can do so, on the level it needs to be to stand up to SCOTUS scrutiny, in 2 weeks.

The issue with them drafting a new EO is it puts airports and industries in chaos again until it gets suspended, and the fundamental basis of the policy does not stand up to constitutional law. If he does it again the backlash will be even more massive.
 
C

canoli2006

Member
Tovarisc said:
afaik it's in reference them being open to idea of scrapping current EO and writing new, narrower, one. Question / problem is if Trump is too proud to do it.
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But that "nothing is off the table" reply struck me as something even worse that Trump could do.
 
T

Tovarisc

Member
White House Rewriting Trump’s Controversial Travel Ban Order: Sources

.....White House lawyers are working on a rewrite of his executive order that could pass legal muster, NBC News has learned.

The work began several days before the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals shot down the White House's bid to lift a temporary restraining order....

Trump's legal team still believes it will be eventually proven correct on the merits of the current executive order, the official said. And they are looking into several options, including continuing the court battle as well as signing a new immigration EO "very soon."

Several sources close to President Trump told MSNBC's Joe Scarborough that White House lawyers and working on language for the executive order that would be able to find favor with the federal courts.

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ontroversial-travel-ban-order-sources-n719356
 
O

orochi91

Member
Tovarisc said:
White House Rewriting Trump’s Controversial Travel Ban Order: Sources

.....White House lawyers are working on a rewrite of his executive order that could pass legal muster, NBC News has learned.

The work began several days before the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals shot down the White House's bid to lift a temporary restraining order....

Trump's legal team still believes it will be eventually proven correct on the merits of the current executive order, the official said. And they are looking into several options, including continuing the court battle as well as signing a new immigration EO "very soon."

Several sources close to President Trump told MSNBC's Joe Scarborough that White House lawyers and working on language for the executive order that would be able to find favor with the federal courts.

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ontroversial-travel-ban-order-sources-n719356
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Trump's legal team still believes it will be eventually proven correct on the merits of the current executive order, the official said.
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Sounds like the POTUS and his cronies are hoping for another terrorist attack on American soil.
 
George Washington

George Washington

Member
Trump is going to have fun dealing with the courts for the next 4 years. This executive order was a disaster and his admistration did little to justify it.

Hopefully democrats grow a backbone and block further appointments to the Supreme Court just like how republicans did against Obama.
 
S

ShadowSwordmaster

Banned
Tovarisc said:
White House Rewriting Trump's Controversial Travel Ban Order: Sources

.....White House lawyers are working on a rewrite of his executive order that could pass legal muster, NBC News has learned.

The work began several days before the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals shot down the White House's bid to lift a temporary restraining order....

Trump's legal team still believes it will be eventually proven correct on the merits of the current executive order, the official said. And they are looking into several options, including continuing the court battle as well as signing a new immigration EO "very soon."

Several sources close to President Trump told MSNBC's Joe Scarborough that White House lawyers and working on language for the executive order that would be able to find favor with the federal courts.

Source: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news...ontroversial-travel-ban-order-sources-n719356
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I'm sure they will screw it up again.
 
B

Bisnic

Really Really Exciting Member!
orochi91 said:
Sounds like the POTUS and his cronies are hoping for another terrorist attack on American soil.
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Let's just hope they're not evil enough to orchestrate that attack themselves and putting the blame on some innocent muslims.

I think I'm probably watching too many tv shows, but at this point the current government almost looks like it's coming straight from a tv show...
 
M

Malyse

Member
tumblr_ol53p3HhTv1qlsrn9o1_500.gif

tumblr_ol53p3HhTv1qlsrn9o2_500.gif


https://twitter.com/CNN/status/829892081241972736
 
SerTapTap

SerTapTap

Member
canoli2006 said:
But that "nothing is off the table" reply struck me as something even worse that Trump could do.
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He can't go broader, they already smashed down this one, they'd just file a restraining order even faster this time. But going narrower defeats the point of the already idiotic ban. They don't know what they're doing they're just going to try to save face in some moronic way. Any sane president would have dropped this by now.

orochi91 said:
Sounds like the POTUS and his cronies are hoping for another terrorist attack on American soil.
Click to expand...

He's practically begging for it so he'll look good on twitter. He doesn't care about American lives, he cares about looking right.
 
S

Shoeless

Member
Sir TapTap said:
He's practically begging for it so he'll look good on twitter. He doesn't care about American lives, he cares about looking right.
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If all else fails, he can simply make a terrorist attack. Just have a special agent plant a bomb somewhere, then leave a note with some extremist group taking responsibility. Do that two or three times, and people will be up in arms to do something, especially if it happens in the rust belt.
 
U

uncredited male

Member
orochi91 said:
Sounds like the POTUS and his cronies are hoping for another terrorist attack on American soil.
Click to expand...

I figure that has always been the plan. Float some unconstitutional BS, get it struck down, and then when shit happens blame the courts and push for expanded authority and less accountability.

And I would not be surprised if it works.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
uncredited male said:
I figure that has always been the plan. Float some unconstitutional BS, get it struck down, and then when shit happens blame the courts and push for expanded authority and less accountability.

And I would not be surprised if it works.
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Always does. I just hope the false flag attempts to boost trumps support are seen through quickly. He's pretty much egging people to do something that will be blamed on terrorism. That should be abundantly clear, this is messaging to his unhinged stans.

If it's a real terrorist attack, we will go full again, and likely blame iran. Even if it wasn't iran. It will be irans fault.
 
L

Loudninja

Member
uncredited male said:
I figure that has always been the plan. Float some unconstitutional BS, get it struck down, and then when shit happens blame the courts and push for expanded authority and less accountability.

And I would not be surprised if it works.
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People need to stop thinking Trump is smart or has a plan.
 
I

i-Lo

Member
There'll be a purge.
Or, here is more sinister thought: Can he freeze national safety and security related operations to hold them hostage until his demands are met or allow for some terrorist plot to unfold in order to proclaim "told you so" and swing public approval for his actions?
 
Z

Zolo

Member
i-Lo said:
There'll be a purge.
Or, here is more sinister thought: Can he freeze national safety and security related operations to hold them hostage until his demands are met or allow for some terrorist plot to unfold in order to proclaim "told you so" and swing public approval for his actions?
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For that, I think the other question would be 'Could he do that without the public figuring out?'
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
They're not appealing the TRO. Probably a smart move.

@CNBCnow
BREAKING: White House doesn't plan to take stay of Trump's immigration ban to Supreme Court, plans to defend its merits - @NBCNews
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Also, wut:

@AP_Politics
BREAKING: President Trump says he's considering signing a `brand new order' on immigration.
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B

Back-In-Black

Banned
whyamihere said:
They're not appealing the TRO. Probably a smart move.



Also, wut:
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I think it's REALLY dumb to get this case decided on the merits. I do think the government has a very good chance of winning on the merits with regards to the majority of the order but the WA AG is still going to try to take this all the way to the Supreme Court. And, regardless of how that plays out it will allow the Court to specifically define the President's scope in this situation. Thus, no matter what the Executive's power here will likely be diminished.
 
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