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[64gigabyteram]

Can't debunk anything I said huh

Why the fuck would I go into an indepth essay about why you're fucking wrong when the most popular games on every platform run at 60, they're marketed as a new standard for consoles, and every gamer on the fucking planet openly admits it looks better?

 

[Represent.]

Still the most played games because they play well... which wouldn't be the case if they ran at 30fps. The only trash thing here is your opinions.

60fps is ideal for MP games. The second you start wanting that shit in single player narrative games you need to get the fuck out.

 

[Roman Empire]

Time to upgrade your optical lenses op. Why not get the best of both worlds, and opt for higher refresh rates and resolution?

 

[MiguelItUp]

I mean, that's your opinion, and that's totally fine. But I disagree.

Honestly, I'd rather have a compromise of both for 60fps.

 

[Represent.]

Why the fuck would I go into an indepth essay about why you're fucking wrong when the most popular games on every platform run at 60, they're marketed as a new standard for consoles, and every gamer on the fucking planet openly admits it looks better?

How am I wrong? Show me one single player game that had its trailer captured and screenshots released in 60fps performance mode? Show me one console that DIDNT have "next gen graphics" as the major selling point? LOL shit show me one AAA single player developer that sacrificed their games graphics in favor of performance

 

[Rykan]

60fps is ideal for MP games. The second you start wanting that shit in single player narrative games you need to get the fuck out.

Yeah no, how about you get "the fuck out" and go back to the movie theater, where you belong. You can gawk over CGI in there.

How am I wrong? Show me one single player game that had its trailer captured and screenshots released in 60fps performance mode? Show me one console that DIDNT have "next gen graphics" as the major selling point? LOL shit show me one AAA single player developer that sacrificed their games graphics in favor of performance

All of these points have already been addressed. "B-But video game trailers" continue to remain a poor argument because people aren't PLAYING trailers. Trailers are for watching, not playing. You've already been caught spreading misinformation about default modes of several games.

You keep drawing the wrong conclusions. "Graphics are the most important selling point of next generation gaming". You're right, they are. But that doesn't mean that gamers want it to come at the expense of playability. Because a 60 FPS game on PS5 will still blow away anything of the previous gen.

"Trailers use fidelity modes" again, Yes. True. But that's because playability isn't a factor, so having fidelity mode for trailers makes sense. That doesn't mean that gamers don't want to play in the performance mode when they get to actually PLAY the game themselves.

 

[balls of snow]

I still think it depends on the game.
I can definitely see the argument in favor of visual fidelity when it comes to big cinematic games. Games like TLOU2, RDR2 or Horizon Zero Dawn would probably had a lower impact if their visuals had been scaled back enough to run at 60fps on a base Ps4.

Though I'd be happy if this gen we stayed at the visual fidelity of stuff like RDR2, Demon Souls, Gow Ragnarok and Rift Apart while maintaining 60fps and innovating in other areas besides visuals.

Gears 5 was made with 60 fps in mind. While a beautiful game, its not talk about in the same league as red dead 2 or tlou 2.

 

[AJUMP23]

I like both.

 

[poppabk]

We don't have anything that couldn't be done at 60 currently. I am sure a lot of people would somehow overcome their abject loathing of 30 FPS if it allowed for some new paradigm in gaming, but for slightly better reflections or shadows etc most would rather take the frames.

 

[Pop]

 

[01011001]

We don't have anything that couldn't be done at 60 currently. I am sure a lot of people would somehow overcome their abject loathing of 30 FPS if it allowed for some new paradigm in gaming, but for slightly better reflections or shadows etc most would rather take the frames.

exactly. I can understand it with Zelda on the small tablet that is the Switch.

but having no 60fps option in a game that runs at 4k or 1440p, when usually it could easily be implemented by simply dropping the resolution to 1080p or lowering some settings like shadow detail, that's just unacceptable.

1080p is exactly 25% of 4k, and it's about 56% of 1440p
so simply dropping the resolution from 4k or 1440p to 1080p means you only have to draw a fraction of the pixels while still having a respectable resolution, a resolution which is still the most popular on PC monitors for example.

 

[The Stig]

Both perspectives are entirely valid and good arguments can be made for both.
I prefer framerate in most cases, especially more action/timing oriented games.

 

[SmokedMeat]

60fps is ideal for MP games. The second you start wanting that shit in single player narrative games you need to get the fuck out.

I'd like to hear your explanation for why it's ideal for multiplayer.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

 

[AtomicStarving]

I will never choose resolution over fps. Period.

 

[SlimySnake]

Next time people should avoid to cry at the thought of a console that cost more than 500 dollars, if not, shut the fuck up, it's your fucking fault for being a crybaby cheap fuck if we can't have both.

lol well said. I remember people saying $399 is the most they would pay for a console. like gtfo. this is what you get.

Consoles should be $599 minimum. They are a 7 year investment. The $299 PS1 would be $600 today, but we are cheap fucks who will spend thousands on iphones, hundreds on bars and clubs, $10 for avacado toast, hundreds on onlyfan subs, and $6 for a cup of coffee, but $600 is too much for a console.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

"Trailers use fidelity modes" again, Yes. True. But that's because playability isn't a factor, so having fidelity mode for trailers makes sense. That doesn't mean that gamers don't want to play in the performance mode when they get to actually PLAY the game themselves.

In trailers they also play at very low sensitivity, so the 30fps cap is harder to see.

30fps is for players who hasn't learned to use a controller properly.

 

[Philfrag]

Look, I think these discussions are great to have. They're important when trying to figure out what makes a great game from a technical stand point. but....I have never heard the argument that fidelity is king over framerate from people who actually have access to higher framerates. I see it everytime. Someone talks about how upgrading to 120hz is a waste of money and how it isn't needed. Then they venture into the land of higher frames and they finally get it, their minds are changed.

Its very hard to explain why 120 is better than 60 or why 60 is better than 30. You can't do it with description. Its something that needs to be experienced. And once you experience it, you just can't go back. So sure, enjoy your fidelity, you're a freer man than I. I'm now forever an fps slave and poorer for it.. Its great most of the time but tragic when devs don't know how to optimize their games.

 

[Kataploom]

LOL... Then why 30fps and not 24fps? The ones arguin in favor of more fps always say "more is better" or "60fps to keep good graphics is ok but if I can do 90 or 120 with same quality that's great"... But I've never EVER seen anyone say "less than 30? gimme that, push the graphics!" or "They should go down to 15 so fidelity is better"... Hmmmm

Maybe I'm spoiled by having played too much Nintendo games and since the end of 7th gen on PC for 3rd parties, but I've tried to play A Plague Tales: Requiem and, even tho I can perfectly run the game at 30-40 fps on medium/high at around 900p (which I'm ok with, btw), I think I'd rather wait until I can play the game at least at the same quality but proper 60fps... Game just doesn't feel the same... Then I go play fucking Lucky's Tale which is very simple game but very smooth and oh man... the difference in "feel" is just way too much...

 

[Spaceman292]

My bad you're right about halo infinite.

No coincidence it's one of the uglier AAA games in existence then

Yeah but the only thing people could agree on with that game is that the gameplay was really fun. That must partly be down to the frame rate.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Play whatever the fuck you want in whatever mode is available to you. I don't see why this has to be a fight among consumers.

The irony is in devs making a game and thinking that graphical fidelity must be the top priority.
While making a game.
It's quite literally like writing a book and not caring if the writing is stilted and awkward, as long as the paper is high quality with gold lining and the cover art is from an award-winning artist.

I laughed my ass off at that guy whiteknighting the new Arkam game devs, going "I wish gamers knew how much you lose by targeting 60fps". Dude, while moving my character around I can't even focus on all that background shit you've so carefully crafted if it moves at 30fps on an OLED.

 

[fart town usa]

I don't like 30fps on PS5, at least when it comes to nex-gen games.

I'd pick framerate over fidelity but that's mostly because I'm still rocking 1080p. HDR and higher resolutions don't exist in my house.

 

[Sleepwalker]

Yeah well why stop there OP? Why don't we go down to 24fps? Why dont they trim down all the gameplay and get better fidelity? Oh right that's called a movie. Perhaps check them out.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

You can choose between fps and resolution. We are not sacrificing anything. If you want better fidelity, resolution is way more expensive than frame-rate. We just need to start running games at 1080p and relying on upscale tech to give us somewhat clean image. Even there is easy to put a 60fps option with lower settings. Your argument don't make sense. And I can wager that most people will choose fps anyway, just see the games we have today. 60 is always the preferred mode.

 

[rofif]

Nothing ruins more the console gaming experience that 30 fps, I was always a PC gamer but with this new gen I bought a PS5 and 60 fps in a big screen is glorious, for me the most annoying thing is people that prefer graphics over playability, if you want better graphics go to the cinema.

I don't agree. Bloodborne jaggies are more off putting than it's 30fps… which is one of fastest, least laggy 30 fps.

Frame rate whoring is just annoying. You can do better. Your brain can do better

 

[Captain Toad]

I'm exasperated with this '60fps or nothing' attitude that has infected gaming recently. Sure it's nice if a game runs at a steady 60hz but I'd far far rather the developers get their game looking as nice as possible at a steady 30fps than sacrifice fidelity. I didn't pay all that money for a PS5 just to play smoother running PS4 games.

Who's with me? You can't all be framerate fanatics surely?

You're wrong.

/thread

 

[lh032]

my main issue with 30fps is that...it doesnt stay locked sometimes, it falls below 30

 

[Pejo]

If you're playing a moviegame or walking sim, then sure. But anything gameplay focused is made better by higher framerate, it's not really a discussion worth having in my opinion.

 

[rofif]

lol well said. I remember people saying $399 is the most they would pay for a console. like gtfo. this is what you get.

Consoles should be $599 minimum. They are a 7 year investment. The $299 PS1 would be $600 today, but we are cheap fucks who will spend thousands on iphones, hundreds on bars and clubs, $10 for avacado toast, and $6 for a cup of coffee, but $600 is too much for a console.

True. It's a 500$ box and the nouveau riche pc boys who discovered 60fps think that they deserve everything the way they want because they can't spend 10 minutes adjusting to different frame rate. I still think this ignorance comes with time. They will see what mistake it was to move consoles in pc direction

I am fine with 500 console and fine with its limitations. I find it really impressive in fact how good consoles are time and time again.

And I miss times when games were just games. Now everyone obsesses over this shit and devs have to make 7 modes of which none is good and 30 fps is way slower than 30 fps modes used to be in some games(proved in few games. Most are still ok)

 

[rofif]

Yeah well why stop there OP? Why don't we go down to 24fps? Why dont they trim down all the gameplay and get better fidelity? Oh right that's called a movie. Perhaps check them out.

Always the same pointless stupid shit talking. No. 24 fps is not the same. Game is not a movie. If you played at 24 fps and then switched to 30 it's like a jump from 30 to 60 lol.

 

[Fbh]

Gears 5 was made with 60 fps in mind. While a beautiful game, its not talk about in the same league as red dead 2 or tlou 2.

True, The Coalition are really good at pushing nice visuals with good performance. Id with Doom Eternal is another example that also looks great for a game targeting 60fps on console.
With that said, Gears 5 was only 60fps on the substantially more powerful Xbox One X. On the basic One S it was 30fps and could drop the resolution close to 720p on heavy scenes. Now imagine if they had designed the visuals and world aiming at locked 1080p/60fps on the One S.

 

[rodrigolfp]

one of this worst controlling third person games no matter the framerate.

AFAIK is the worst ever on PC.

 

[rofif]

Gears 5 was made with 60 fps in mind. While a beautiful game, its not talk about in the same league as red dead 2 or tlou 2.

yeah gears 5 is not in the same league as Sony games graphically (gameplay too)
But gears 1,2 and 3 all pushed their tech the best at the time

 

[64gigabyteram]

lol well said. I remember people saying $399 is the most they would pay for a console. like gtfo. this is what you get.

Consoles should be $599 minimum. They are a 7 year investment. The $299 PS1 would be $600 today, but we are cheap fucks who will spend thousands on iphones, hundreds on bars and clubs, $10 for avacado toast, and $6 for a cup of coffee, but $600 is too much for a console.

This defeats the entire purpose of a console. Who the hell is gonna buy a 599 console??? At that point get a pc

 

[SlimySnake]

This defeats the entire purpose of a console. Who the hell is gonna buy a 599 console??? At that point get a pc

Same people who spent thousands on PS5s from scalpers. Same people who are lining up to buy $550 consoles outside the u.s. this thing is still selling out.

Times have changed since the 90s. We spend more on everything. ive seen garbage men and maids wear $150 ear pods. $150 GPUs now sell for $1,600 and sell out. It;s insane to expect consoles to remain the same price 3 gens in a row.

 

[Hero_Select]

I agree with you OP. I love the sharpness of 4K

 

[rodrigolfp]

Next time people should avoid to cry at the thought of a console that cost more than 500 dollars, if not, shut the fuck up, it's your fucking fault for being a crybaby cheap fuck if we can't have both.

Truer works were never said best.

"Mimimi I want ma top graphics at 30 fps but I am cheap AF and will pay US$500 maximum for ma gaming machine with paid online, and then complain that I only get 4xAF, N64 RT reflections only, medium/low/lower than low settings, etc..."

 

[rodrigolfp]

This defeats the entire purpose of a console. Who the hell is gonna buy a 599 console??? At that point get a pc

Those who are not cheap af with one of their preferred hobbies.

 

[Elder Legend]

Well see this is where you are wrong, because at 60 FPS the 30 FPS is also included. So why would you only want 30 FPS if the 30 FPS is already in the 60 FPS package?

 

[Skifi28]

Well see this is where you are wrong, because at 60 FPS the 30 FPS is also included. So why would you only want 30 FPS if the 30 FPS is already in the 60 FPS package?

 

[daninthemix]

I'll do you one better OP:

Power / Noise > Frame-rate

I have a 4090 but I'll cap it at 60fps. Come at me.

 

[SmokedMeat]

True. It's a 500$ box and the nouveau riche pc boys who discovered 60fps think that they deserve everything the way they want because they can't spend 10 minutes adjusting to different frame rate. I still think this ignorance comes with time. They will see what mistake it was to move consoles in pc direction

Console games targeted 60fps in the early days. Two generations ago consoles went into the 30fps ghetto.

It has nothing to do with people playing on PC or wanting a more PC like experience. Arcade games were ALL 60fps, because the playing experience is what matters most.

 

[SlimySnake]

I think people feel so entitled for 60 fps this gen because of the long cross gen period extending well over 2 years. Same gamers have been trained to play 30 fps games since PS1. They will be fine if the games looked the Matrix demo. They expect a certain level of fidelity before accepting downgrades.

Cross gen looking games like Gotham knights and Plagues Tale simply should not be missing a 60 fps mode on consoles. Had they looked like the matrix with fancy destruction and next gen enemy AI, no one would be complaining.

 

[Captain Toad]

Now some noob will quote me saying yOu pLAy gAmEs N0t wATch thEm as if everything I said isn't a fact and ignore the fact that practically every game on the market launches at 30fps and is later patched for 60.

The games you are talking about are PS4 games that got patched for PS5.

 

[UnNamed]

I usually prefer graphics over framerate, 30fps are good enough in many situations. What I want is the best graphics at solid 30fps, I need to see the differences between hardware to justify my money spent on videogames.

People who prefer framerate are, often, the same who complain about games are not good enough or don't wont to spend money to have what they want or they will buy new hardware only at an unreasonable price. Give them a 1080p/60fps game and they will complain because it's not running at 4K/60. Give them a 4K/60 system and they'll say they don't want to spend 1K for a GPU.

 

[3liteDragon]

This may seem like a hot take now but I think as more current-gen only titles come out over the course of this gen, you're not gonna be able to tell the difference between the 60 FPS & 30 FPS modes when you're not watching a DF/NXG video. In most cases, it's gonna be an internal resolution change which people will only notice at 300% zoom.

 

[rofif]

Console games targeted 60fps in the early days. Two generations ago consoles went into the 30fps ghetto.

It has nothing to do with people playing on PC or wanting a more PC like experience. Arcade games were ALL 60fps, because the playing experience is what matters most.

yeah.... that's false.
Some games were 60fps. Others were barely 20 or 30.

 

[01011001]

I think people feel so entitled for 60 fps this gen because of the long cross gen period extending well over 2 years. Same gamers have been trained to play 30 fps games since PS1. They will be fine if the games looked the Matrix demo. They expect a certain level of fidelity before accepting downgrades.

Cross gen looking games like Gotham knights and Plagues Tale simply should not be missing a 60 fps mode on consoles. Had they looked like the matrix with fancy destruction and next gen enemy AI, no one would be complaining.

obligatory post that the Matrix demo looks like pure garbage in motion, and no I certainly wouldn't accept a game looking like that not even if it ran at 60fps

 

[darrylgorn]

This may seem like a hot take now but I think as more current-gen only titles come out over the course of this gen, you're not gonna be able to tell the difference between the 60 FPS & 30 FPS modes when you're not watching a DF/NXG video. In most cases, it's gonna be an internal resolution change which people will only notice at 300% zoom.

 

[TheGecko]

If you're dumb enough to want 30fps then you shouldn't be bothered about us wanting 60.

Having said that I'm on pc so I like minimum to be 120 and more at 144 ideally.