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Fighting Games Weekly | August 20-26

xCobalt said:
Can you elaborate why you think a new disc isn't considered support? What classifies as support?
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Sixfortyfive said:
If a budget retail update isn't support, then no paid content is.
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A new disc is a new disc. You can call it whatever you want, but it's not the kind of "support" that made people feel all warm inside the way they felt for GTA, Fallout, Oblivion, Halo, Left 4 Dead, SSX, etc. A new disc after nine months is Capcom basically turning my game into a paperweight prematurely. It's the complete opposite of consumer friendly approaches preached by other companies like Valve, CDproject, etc.

The fact that they catered to the hardcore niche with UMvC3 and received paltry sales should be a big enough clue that they lost touch with the fanbase. It's bullshit after all the experimentation they went through with the SFIV series where they took far better care of their fans and actually changed their approach accordingly(especially how they handled "Apology Edition").

If Capcom were half as supportive of Vanilla Mahvel as they are with SFxT then DHC glitch would have been wiped out, Phoenix would have been patched to be less derp and they would have at least attempted to fix that horrifying netcode. Also, we'd have our own Spidey mobile.
 
SolarPowered said:
A new disc is a new disc. You can call it whatever you want, but it's not the kind of "support" that made people feel all warm inside the way they felt for GTA, Fallout, Oblivion, Halo, Left 4 Dead, SSX, etc. A new disc after nine months is Capcom basically turning my game into a paperweight prematurely. It's the complete opposite of consumer friendly approaches preached by other companies like Valve, CDproject, etc.

The fact that they catered to the hardcore niche with UMvC3 and received paltry sales should be a big enough clue that they lost touch with the fanbase. It's bullshit after all the experimentation they went through with the SFIV series where they took far better care of their fans and actually changed their approach accordingly(especially how they handled "Apology Edition").

If Capcom were half as supportive of Vanilla Mahvel as they are with SFxT then DHC glitch would have been wiped out, Phoenix would have been patched to be less derp and they would have at least attempted to fix that horrifying netcode. Also, we'd have our own Spidey mobile.
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Ten years from now it will be possible, though probably not incredibly convenient, to find working Dreamcasts and copies of MvC2. If not, emulation would probably be a viable alternative.

Sometimes I wonder, though: If I wanted to play UMvC3 a decade from now, would I be able to acquire Jill & Shuma, and would I be stuck with throw tech glitches?

I'm interested in a very different kind of "support." Even discounting price arguments (which are in my favor anyway), I still loathe free DLC, because I've had to put up with enough unpatched tournament stations to view it as a relevant inconvenience. I can't even figure out what you're upset about.
 
SolarPowered said:
A new disc is a new disc. You can call it whatever you want, but it's not the kind of "support" that made people feel all warm inside the way they felt for GTA, Fallout, Oblivion, Halo, Left 4 Dead, SSX, etc. A new disc after nine months is Capcom basically turning my game into a paperweight prematurely. It's the complete opposite of consumer friendly approaches preached by other companies like Valve, CDproject, etc.

If Capcom were half as supportive of Vanilla Mahvel as they are with SFxT then DHC glitch would have been wiped out, Phoenix would have been patched to be less derp and they would have at least attempted to fix that horrifying netcode. Also, we'd have our own Spidey mobile.
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I disagree. Just because the content is delivered in a different form of media doesn't change the fact that its still support. If Capcom released UMvC3 in the form of dlc with the same price, would you still be mad?

You also seem to be thinking SFxT has received a lot of support. Outside of the dlc characters, gems and colours (they were already completed before the game was released, so I personally don't classify them as support) the only thing they released were sound issues during online play and a balance patch that affected around 5 characters.
 
I would rather have Umvc3 than Vanilla. Hell I would've gotten it for 60. It's definitely a form of support just not a very good one when it comes to release date, pricing and method of delivery. Game would've been dead by now if there was no support.
 
UMVC isnt "support" but lets say it was i meant Post Launch Support. Which we havent seen. SF X T has had multiple balance patches post launch including the one where infinites were removed and then when Ryu and Rolento were nerfed. Even if UMVC never recieved more characters it could still use some rebalancing to move some of the s tier characters down a notch and some of the worse ones up.
 
Grecco said:
UMVC isnt "support" but lets say it was i meant Post Launch Support. Which we havent seen. SF X T has had multiple balance patches post launch including the one where infinites were removed and then when Ryu and Rolento were nerfed. Even if UMVC never recieved more characters it could still use some rebalancing to move some of the s tier characters down a notch and some of the worse ones up.
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Wasn't there one (maybe 2?) that changed hulk, Phoenix wright and Chris?
 
xCobalt said:
Wasn't there one (maybe 2?) that changed hulk, Phoenix wright and Chris?
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phoenix1.jpg


Never Forget.

RIP 2011 - 2012
 
Which is common practice for several games released now. A lot of games do a post release patch shortly afterwards. To fix things such as that.

But SFxT has gotten tons of more support the Mahvel. Just look at all the advertisement money put into it pre release and how it was featured in the SF anniversary tourney with a car as the prize.

Things like that make you go huh?
 
crimsonspider89 said:
Which is common practice for several games released now. A lot of games do a post release patch shortly afterwards. To fix things such as that.

But SFxT has gotten tons of more support the Mahvel. Just look at all the advertisement money put into it pre release and how it was featured in the SF anniversary tourney with a car as the prize.

Things like that make you go huh?
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Yeah lets not forget. Capcom spent thousands of dollars on just Cross Assault including 25g prize that Nerd Josh won.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
Ten years from now it will be possible, though probably not incredibly convenient, to find working Dreamcasts and copies of MvC2. If not, emulation would probably be a viable alternative.

Sometimes I wonder, though: If I wanted to play UMvC3 a decade from now, would I be able to acquire Jill & Shuma, and would I be stuck with throw tech glitches?

I'm interested in a very different kind of "support." Even discounting price arguments (which are in my favor anyway), I still loathe free DLC, because I've had to put up with enough unpatched tournament stations to view it as a relevant inconvenience. I can't even figure out what you're upset about.
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I don't think any of it matters that much to the super small niche that will be playing the game in another half decade. Vampire Savior was a region locked title that never made it out of the PS2 or Saturn in a decent port but here we are in 2012 with people finding a way to play the game in near tournament legit condition. AE is basically the flagship title for decent DLC support in fighters and people play the game worldwide in tournaments without major issues regarding missing characters or DLC.

Digital updating is not perfect, but it's the best method we have for actually adding value to someone's purchase(by means of DLC and free patches), unlike the disc model that only releases new games(whether or not they are substantial upgrades). I can guarantee you that we won't be seeing patch photoshops of AE, Guilty Gear, BlazBlue or Skullgirls like we did for SFII.
xCobalt said:
I disagree. Just because the content is delivered in a different form of media doesn't change the fact that its still support. If Capcom released UMvC3 in the form of dlc with the same price, would you still be mad?

You also seem to be thinking SFxT has received a lot of support. Outside of the dlc characters, gems and colours (they were already completed before the game was released, so I personally don't classify them as support) the only thing they released were sound issues during online play and a balance patch that affected around 5 characters.
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SFxT has a roadmap and Capcom has been following it. I would agree that the level of support is not incredibly high, but they are paying attention and taking notes. It's a huge difference from the literal blackout that Mahvel fans experienced with Vanilla. We literally had no news to go on until they surprised us with UMvC3's reveal.

The point is that we can at least expect something from them here whereas Vanilla was screwed from the get go. Read my response below to better understand my view of actual support.
Dahbomb said:
I would rather have Umvc3 than Vanilla. Hell I would've gotten it for 60. It's definitely a form of support just not a very good one when it comes to release date, pricing and method of delivery. Game would've been dead by now if there was no support.
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You don't get it. Vanilla is dead. Who plays Vanilla now that a new disc is in stores that completely replaces Vanilla at a new cost. UMvC3 may be "support" for the series, but it most definitely killed it's predecessor and did it absolutely no favors.

BlazBlue CS was an update or sequel. It was not support. The patch that became CS2 with balance changes was support that kept CS alive for a longer time in Japanese arcades and American consoles. BlazBlue CS:Extend was not support for the patched CS1 owners. It made their CS disc irrelevant. SSFIV and AE 2012 were not support. They were updates that were accompanied by real support in the form of the patch that fixed the glaring errors they commited in AE.

UMvC3 did nothing to improve Vanilla just like Extend did nothing to support BlazBlue CS. There is a clear difference between the things that digital patching/support and discs can do.

It's very simple.
 
So if Capcom had put out a UMVC3 DLC patch that was $40, that would've been considered "support"? How is AE 2012 not considered "support"? I am not following this process of logic. I will take an "update" for UMVC3 too if its an option.

Vanilla Marvel would've been dead after EVO because fighting against top tier point/invincible assist/Phoenix would've been dumb as fuck. Releasing UMVC3 just made the death swift.
 
Dahbomb said:
So if Capcom had put out a UMVC3 DLC patch that was $40, that would've been considered "support"? How is AE 2012 not considered "support"? I am not following this process of logic. I will take an "update" for UMVC3 too if its an option.

Vanilla Marvel would've been dead after EVO because fighting against top tier point/invincible assist/Phoenix would've been dumb as fuck. Releasing UMVC3 just made the death swift.
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I never said the entirety of UMvC3 should be a DLC patch. That would be moronic. Just applying a few of it's changes(nerfing Phoenix, toning down XF, applying a few piecemeal buffs, getting rid of DHC glitch, improving netcode or adding spectator) would have been a gigantic win for the game that would have allowed it to see a second EVO. Capcom could have easily still offered a big upgrade(air X-factor, UI upgrade, characters, etc.) and Niitsuma's team might have had even more time to add to the package that is UMvC3. Hell, people were still discovering new tech after EVO and Vanilla still had a ton of popularity that would have carried it through Christmas without an update. Capcom basically poured oil on the fire that people had started because of the numerous SFIV upgrades and it hurt more than the Mahvel brand(SFxT). It's not good long term strategy at all.

We are not living in the Gamecube and OG Xbox days. Mahvel was not released on the Wii. There are actual ways to improve the experience here. You have a PC so you clearly play more than fighting games. You should understand that there is a way to extend the lives of our discs in this day and age.
 
Dahbomb said:
So if Capcom had put out a UMVC3 DLC patch that was $40, that would've been considered "support"? How is AE 2012 not considered "support"? I am not following this process of logic. I will take an "update" for UMVC3 too if its an option.
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Pretty much this. This discussion seems pretty pointless...it just seems Solarpowered is bitter about purchasing another disc.
 
Grecco said:
So SF X T underperformed but its still getting support post launch but MVC performed better than XT and theres nothing left for it. GGs
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MvC3 performed better but in Capcom's mind it's a success that has already made them money. While SFxT is a massive failure that's threatening to destroy the reputation with fighting games Capcom has rebuilt with SF4/MvC3. Not doing something for SFxT could have massive repercussions for later SF games if gamers have lost trust in the brand.
 
Grecco said:
If UMVC was a patch it wouldnt have been 40 bucks for starters.
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But what SolarPowered is saying is that the game should've been supported in smaller increments. That basically sounds like DLC nickle and diming to me. Pay $5 for roster rebalance, $5 for spectator mode, 15$ for characters etc.

It probably won't be $40 but it's not going to be free either especially for the characters and extra features. Of course it's nice to want free support and content for your games but that doesn't really happen much these days unless your game is a F2P type game.
 
To me, a disc is support. I mean franchise support, not game support. It's nice to get both, though. I see where you are coming from, SolarPowered, but I don't entirely agree.

What bothers me about SFxT is that it got:
1) More money - way, way more money.
2) More characters (55 total, and for less money - believe it or not, MvC3 + UMvC3 costs more than SFxT + ripoff character DLC).
3) More development time.
4) More financial backing (official tournament).
5) More patches.

It's a lot of "more" there. Meanwhile, Capcom has promised even more support for SFxT, while the UMvC3 team has been disbanded.
 
Dahbomb said:
But what SolarPowered is saying is that the game should've been supported in smaller increments. That basically sounds like DLC nickle and diming to me. Pay $5 for roster rebalance, $5 for spectator mode, 15$ for characters etc.

It probably won't be $40 but it's not going to be free either especially for the characters and extra features. Of course it's nice to want free support and content for your games but that doesn't really happen much these days unless your game is a F2P type game.
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I never said anything about a possible patch being paid either. Vanilla MvC3 deserved some of those basic balance changes and free spectator/netcode tuning considering how many people bought the game expecting a long lasting experience.

You assume too much here when I clearly mentioned patches. If Reverge can do it, then it should be no sweat for a company as large as Capcom. It's also funny that you mention how rare this "support" is when tons of companies in the West have made it regular practice to support and patch their games when the need arises(there are some cases of financial issues though).
Karsticles said:
To me, a disc is support. I mean franchise support, not game support. It's nice to get both, though. I see where you are coming from, SolarPowered, but I don't entirely agree.

What bothers me about SFxT is that it got:
1) More money - way, way more money.
2) More characters (55 total, and for less money - believe it or not, MvC3 + UMvC3 costs more than SFxT + ripoff character DLC).
3) More development time.
4) More financial backing (official tournament).
5) More patches.

It's a lot of "more" there. Meanwhile, Capcom has promised even more support for SFxT, while the UMvC3 team has been disbanded.
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I'm glad you see where I'm coming from, even though you don't agree. Talking with FightingGAF can be maddening. It's like they speak an entirely different language.

My argument boils down to something simple, really. Discs can add to the strength of a series, but they don't add value to the product you bought because your old disc is useless. Repeating this update pattern in short bursts is harmful. Paid updates(NOT patches) like AE give you the option of adding value which people are totally ecstatic about(despite some paranoia about DLC here and there). Free patches are the ultimate form of support and they can always be accompanied by extra DLC to offset costs for console patching fees. Is there anything you would disagree with in this paragraph? I think we can all agree that more of the second or third would be preferred over constant 9 month refreshes that piss people off more and more.
 
SolarPowered said:
I think we can all agree that more of the second or third would be preferred to constant 9 month refreshes that piss people off more and more.
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I agree more or less with what you are saying ... in an ideal world. But ultimately what matters to me is that *something* gets created. Considering the time I'll get out of a good fighting game, how it gets to me doesn't really matter. However it can matter quite a bit to the developers who need to keep the money coming in to support a game or community.

(excuse double post)
 
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