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Fighting Games Weekly | Feb 9-15 | Mikrotransaktions
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
RockTurtle
Member
is there anything you can't put a bachata jingle on?
guile's theme bachata GO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKlL_vo-t3M
SolarKnight
Member
To quote myself
...is it wrong to sometimes wish your local scene was smaller? Honestly, not only because of that, but because they kinda end up taking over half of the tvs we have at the venue >.>
My condolences
...is it wrong to sometimes wish your local scene was smaller? Honestly, not only because of that, but because they kinda end up taking over half of the tvs we have at the venue >.>
My condolences
lol, here thinking ive seen everything there is to see.
Not really, you wanna level up but can barely do it. If it was a tournament, than I would understand but for a local, this sounds kind of ridiculous wait time. Why not negotiate to bring your own set up and just play ppl on yours?
SolarKnight
Member
I do bring my own consoles but the real issue here is the number of tvs which btw gets reduced in half if it rains since the place is open >_>
You may say "bring your own monitor then" but then you'd just be assuming I have one in the first place
SephirothRK
Member
sry to hear that. stay strong.
lol, nah, i wouldnt say that. a console is one thing since it can fit in your backpack but a monitor is going a bit extreme. are all the set ups for smash 4 like this? cause if it is than i guess theres nothing you can do about it, ppl are hungry to play and level up.
toddhunter
Member
That is the beauty of street fighter though. You have a light, medium and heavy punch and kick and that applies to (just about) everybody. You can go a long way just using those buttons and it is very intuitive. Want to get an attack out quickly? Mash light. Want to do extra damage as you jump in? Hit heavy kick.
From there you learn a few specials and/or combos and you are good to go.
Compare to something like BB where you might press square and a cat flies across the screen. It takes a lot more getting used to.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I'm really sorry about your loss. Like you said, she don't have to suffer anymore.
SloaneRisette
Member
Gosh, Aris sounds distressed about throwing his controller
Immortal Technique
Member
Yeah, he was afraid he broke it! It was all good though.
yeah man having it be a 6 button piano input during short ass blockstun to get a 100% chance is kinda absurd... 3 inputs would be fine and way more intuitive while still not making it too easy.
Vsav is my fave game right now but there are a lot of things i kinda wish someone could go tweak in a project m kinda way...like a lot of chars have pretty useless moves that you wanna avoid like lei lei ex item toss or the bulleta 66 overhead or q bee jaguar tooth etc.
SloaneRisette
Member
Sorry to hear that Smurfx, my condolences to you and your family
ehhhh, the way i see it (especially for marvel) is like... at some point being able to apply scumbag tech that effectively goes from 'luck' to 'skill' since there's a level of consistency to it that creates results
i mean, you gotta be able to get to that point where you can actually apply it (admittedly this is insanely simple in marvel)
Riposte
Member
On that Smash thing with Rayman (worst smash character ever? lol), couldn't they have just did some modding done where the images (character, text, etc.) were replaced to be him? I always wondered why people didn't go that route since games like Brawl got modded to all hell.
Anyway, DLC in Smash is great, but one downside is that it means the fanboy-character-wishlist phase never ends. It almost might not be worth it.
Anyway, DLC in Smash is great, but one downside is that it means the fanboy-character-wishlist phase never ends. It almost might not be worth it.
Ragingnight
Member
my condolences smurf.
edit
I find p4a out of all the anime games easiest to play. I never really dabbed into anime fighters before p4a, and I picked it up decently. GG feels off to me in comparison but its probably just because im just getting old and don't play as much as I used to.
edit 2
I believe aris got a ps4 when his fans donated him the money to get it. So I can see why he really wants to take care of it and was worried about the controller. Aris is good peeps.
edit
I find p4a out of all the anime games easiest to play. I never really dabbed into anime fighters before p4a, and I picked it up decently. GG feels off to me in comparison but its probably just because im just getting old and don't play as much as I used to.
edit 2
I believe aris got a ps4 when his fans donated him the money to get it. So I can see why he really wants to take care of it and was worried about the controller. Aris is good peeps.
My condolences Smurf. :/ Keep your head up.
I don't see how you can agree with one post and not the other. Count gives a real example of feeling overwhelmed by Xrd's mechanics by simply being exposed to them by the game's own incremental tutorial. Why wouldn't the perception be that he needs to know all that stuff to play the game after spending 20 + minutes going through it?
I don't see how you can agree with one post and not the other. Count gives a real example of feeling overwhelmed by Xrd's mechanics by simply being exposed to them by the game's own incremental tutorial. Why wouldn't the perception be that he needs to know all that stuff to play the game after spending 20 + minutes going through it?
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
I don't know of anybody who has manged to hack the CSS at this point.
It was a while before we could do it with brawl. All I've seen so far is people looking in the code to find unused data.
If its legit, I think Rayman is gonna be a pretty good addition gameplay wise.
His moveset has a lot of potential.
Professor Beef
Banned
Sorry to hear that smurfx. I lost my grandma last month, so I know what you're going through right now.
http://www.twitch.tv/momochoco momochoco streaming. going through shadowloo showdown photos?
choco doing more work in the gym than momochi?
choco doing more work in the gym than momochi?
yeah i agree, im just salty. i see players like him as imposters. they play the game with gimmicks and win sometimes. he's not even qualified to be a gate keeper lol
holy hell, that guy in the middle has some effen gains on his arm! even if it is covered with extra stuff.
MisterLuffy
Member
I'm glad that I caught it live, it was funny. At least he didn't break the controller.
SquirrelSoup
Member
Damn, sorry to hear that. My condolences =(
I dunno, it seems like GG has about the same with the P S HS buttons. In fact, since it has some universal anti-airs and overheads it seems easier on that front if anything.
My condolences, Smurfx.
You message him the lobby's location or id and he have to search for it.
CountBlack
Member
Condolences to you and your family. Stay strong <3
Sorry to hear this. Hang in there
Replay of me playing Super Turbo with Arturo on stream last night in case anyone wants to watch.
http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby/v/3790855?t=5h44m04s
http://www.twitch.tv/nycfurby/v/3790855?t=5h44m04s
darkblade77
Member
My condolences, smurf. Best wishes to you and your family.
Why did he feel like he needed to spend 20+ minutes going over every system mechanic? This is the actual question, and it's not tantamount to saying "why should we have more tutorials".
I don't want to go too deep into meta-discussion about what Count did or didn't want to do, but say he did felt he needed to know everything about how Xrd plays at a baseline level. If there were no tutorials for the extended mechanics and he went off to various forums and/or started hunting down video tutorials on youtube to find that information instead, do you think he would have been better off or less overwhelmed? Is he really better served by not having the information available to him in the game?
"Perhaps if the tutorials weren't there, he wouldn't have felt that need to go over every last mechanic right away" is an answer, but it jumps over too many hoops. The information is there for him to find in either case, and it's not like the game itself can't be more flexible with how to present that information to you--for example, you can slow drip the info out/stagger what tutorials are immediately available, or you can wrap learning mechanics in other systems designed to entertain(the frequently mentioned minigame/story idea), or incentivise completing certain tutorials/exercises after analyzing match performance, so you feel that what you're learning applies to that match you didn't do so well in.
If the issue is player expectation that if 'this stuff is taught to you in-game, so the developers are saying you need to know this to get anywhere', what about doing something like making it so that only players can create and upload tutorials? After downloading and playing one, you get the ability to rate it, so the tutorials that hold the most value to the community rise to the top of visibility. It solves the issue of the emergent complexity that builds out later in a game's lifepsan as well; kinda like a Steam Workshop for teaching other players.
I do think that players have different ways of learning games, but I don't think we should throw away learning tools because this or that iteration of them doesn't work. We just need to figure out how to make them better at accomplishing their intended purpose.
Why did he feel like he needed to spend 20+ minutes going over every system mechanic? This is the actual question, and it's not tantamount to saying "why should we have more tutorials".
I don't want to go too deep into meta-discussion about what Count did or didn't want to do, but say he did felt he needed to know everything about how Xrd plays at a baseline level. If there were no tutorials for the extended mechanics and he went off to various forums and/or started hunting down video tutorials on youtube to find that information instead, do you think he would have been better off or less overwhelmed? Is he really better served by not having the information available to him in the game?
"Perhaps if the tutorials weren't there, he wouldn't have felt that need to go over every last mechanic right away" is an answer, but it jumps over too many hoops. The information is there for him to find in either case, and it's not like the game itself can't be more flexible with how to present that information to you--for example, you can slow drip the info out/stagger what tutorials are immediately available, or you can wrap learning mechanics in other systems designed to entertain(the frequently mentioned minigame/story idea), or incentivise completing certain tutorials/exercises after analyzing match performance, so you feel that what you're learning applies to that match you didn't do so well in.
If the issue is player expectation that if 'this stuff is taught to you in-game, so the developers are saying you need to know this to get anywhere', what about doing something like making it so that only players can create and upload tutorials? After downloading and playing one, you get the ability to rate it, so the tutorials that hold the most value to the community rise to the top of visibility. It solves the issue of the emergent complexity that builds out later in a game's lifepsan as well; kinda like a Steam Workshop for teaching other players.
I do think that players have different ways of learning games, but I don't think we should throw away learning tools because this or that iteration of them doesn't work. We just need to figure out how to make them better at accomplishing their intended purpose.
CommandThrower
Member
My condolences to you, smurfx. Hang in there. FGC-GAF is here for you.
Some context is order. I'm not saying tutorials should not exist or that they are not useful. I'm posting in response to a narrative that has been generated since VF:Evo that hums to the tune of "The reason our games are niche is because the developers aren't explaining how to play them.", which I believe is BS. That narrative has evolved into "Developers should spend time and resources on tutorial modes that rival or surpass VF: EVO if they want to keep new players.", which I also think is BS. It's something I've been harping on for years.
I find tutorials are only useful for players that are already goal-oriented and have a vision of what they want to accomplish once they sit down to play a fighting game for the first time (that honestly doesn't sound like Black, I don't expect him to stick with the game). Is it possible to generate that goal-oriented approach in new players? I believe so, I'm just not exactly sure how. I'm confident the answer lies in somehow making the game fun and addictive for the average person without them having to be conscious of what "good" or "bad" gameplay looks like, first. Or if they're forced to be conscious of it, they're somehow manipulated to think that it's not necessarily relevant to them. The desire to join a competitive enclave has to be organically compelling - an obvious next step that takes the interest and passion you've developed for the game on your own terms to another next level. Maybe I'm being naive, but I think that can be generated in anyone if it's not nipped in the bud by an overmastering info-dump regarding high-level tactics and mechanics 5 minutes into being introduced into a game.
Some of the suggestions you've made are great (as usual) and are being wasted by posting them here, I think. That latter one in particular. Making newer players feel like they're part of a larger community that has their back from the jump, could go a long way, I think.
VF4:EVO is a terrible choice for proof to back up what you are trying to state here because VF is a small niche within a niche genre.
If there were more examples of higher profile games going this route, yet still failing, then I'd say that you might be on to something.
Tutorials are generally better than they were a decade ago, largely due to EVO, I think. Most FGs, from the Iron Galaxy digital releases and up, have something in place to help ease players into the game (flagship Capcom games notwithstanding, even though SF4 has those silly trials)). The overarching point is that there's diminishing returns regarding the very concept of pushing the envelope in terms of tutorials. The cost/benefit ratio is definitely skewed. EVO is a fine example, because it's the paragon in the genre, yet failed the hardest. If the premise is that great tutorials help expand the base by keeping new players, EVO blatantly failed to do that (and games that have learned from EVO failed to do that as well).
Anecdotally, I've seen it with my own two eyes. Before finding out that communities played these games competitively, desperate for VF4 competition, I introduced about 3-4 of my friends to VF4:EVO's tutorial mode. Despite expressing that they thought the game was great, not one of them were willing to spend any time with it, and consequently gave up playing FGs with me all together. It was pretty disheartening. Thank god for the FGC.
/DEAD
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
Sorry to hear that smurfx. I can't say I know what you're going through right now but I hope that with time you will be ok.
That thing around her nick looks like one of those collars that explode if you trigger a certain event in sci fi movies, lol, I bet she can't get more than 10 meters away from Kanye.
I agree with Kimo, tutorials should be for those who are already interested in learning, someone who can't be bothered to look up a youtube video or read through a forum to get better isn't going to sit through a tutorial.
What FGs developers should do is to get more involved with the community and help content creators provide better/more content, so things become easier for those who actually want to get good. It's basically what all the popular MOBAs do right now, you wont find deep tutorials in Dota2 or LoL, but everything you want to know is few clicks away if you're interested in learning.
call_kotaku
Member
Actually, one thing that I feel like VF5 did really well was explain why certain mechanics are useful, and I feel like there's a distinct lack of the middle-tier application tutorials in fighting games. Everything tends to be either "here's how you do a fireball" or "here's a meter-positive combo that ends in hard knockdown" or "here's an option select that works on knockdown against 12 characters" without really explaining why the setup is good and why it should be used.
It's something that surprised me a lot going into more popular genres and trying to improve. There's no lack of resources to show you combos or tech but there's a pretty scarce amount of content that's trying to teach people how to play the game. The stuff Juicebox's done is pretty much one of the only things that spring to mind, but there was no shortage of approachable mid-level tutorials when I tried to learn DOTA or Hearthstone
It's something that surprised me a lot going into more popular genres and trying to improve. There's no lack of resources to show you combos or tech but there's a pretty scarce amount of content that's trying to teach people how to play the game. The stuff Juicebox's done is pretty much one of the only things that spring to mind, but there was no shortage of approachable mid-level tutorials when I tried to learn DOTA or Hearthstone
No lies...
I would main the fuck out of FG characters that looked like that. Monica Kanye lookin' like black Vergil or something.
Xrd actually does that in mission mode, there are several option select missions along with explanations of why/how do they work and when you should use them, even going into how to counter them sometimes. There are also character specifics missions for each characters that teaches you how to deal with their shenanigans and give you idea's if you play the character. Those are great to have but still don't compare to good video tutorials.
And yes, Juicebox's KoF tutorials are amazing, but they also point to the lack of support FGs content creators get compared to some other competitive games, you wont find such tutorials for all KoF characters. Another great example is Rip's TTT2 character tutorials and all the TTT2 stuff LevelUpYour game made near TTT2's launch. I didn't play Persona, but I keep hearing about it having a lot of good content from the community that help new comers.
"Community" should be a mode you have access to from the FG's main menu and should have links to video tutorials, top level matches and whatever content created by the fans that are related to the game. If you don't want to pay them, the least you could do is promote their stuff.
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