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[Clawww]

Good article on how much of Melee seems intentional https://smashfts.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/melee-is-an-accident-i-disagree/

Good read. I've always held this view, but this sheds some more light on the idea.

I find it hard to believe that a group of devs and playtesters didn't realize the ramifications of fast-falls and L-cancels, and they obviously weren't unaware of traditional fighting game design concepts. I just can't imagine the team NOT having played lots of 1v1s during development, and that surely would have influenced the final product.

 

[Kimosabae]

Baby Names Weekly | "Kimosabae Jr."

I vote for this.

 

[Conceited]

another compilation of smugs beastly moments has been released

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wpqUUsgyDQ

 

[Rhapsody]

I never understood why people thought so much of SSBM was a happy accident. It seemed like they were well aware of the main issues SSB64 had and they were all addressed in Meele. I think what would be more interesting would be to really figure out to what extent the game was planned, in terms of the skill ceilings being what they are and some of the craziness that can happen in that game. The article touches on things that were deliberate by HAL but it doesn't really go to that next level, which I would say is a bit disappointing if it wouldn't end up being complete speculation.

The more important thing I think is that games need to have solid fundamental systems, and I think SSBM and MvC2 speak to that better than anything. If the game's core rules are solid, it can withstand a ton of bullshit. Both of those games have some really dumb stuff in it but the game lets you work around it.

Agreed. There's a lot that feels deliberate considering it was a natural step forward after 64. It's a shame that we don't have HAL working on the Smash games anymore. While I wouldn't expect Brawl to have been Melee 2.0 if HAL worked on it, HAL really had a good idea on what worked and what didn't regarding mechanics.

On your latter part, it reminds me of how much I enjoyed listening to Mike Z discussing the ins and outs of Marvel 2's system. So much I didn't know on what restricts the players and what helps prevents certain things like high/low unblockables.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Good article on how much of Melee seems intentional https://smashfts.wordpress.com/2015/02/09/melee-is-an-accident-i-disagree/

Good read. Also didn't know there were that many changes in the PAL version. We should start playing that one because fuck shiek

 

[RockTurtle]

99% of the cast just call her Red Hood so it's understandable =v=
You're also the first person in a long time to recognize her, you person you :V

i read the manga a long time ago. what a head trip.

*4 armed glasses girl is best girl*

 

[Dlent]

Looks like I picked the right time to get into Melty, because an awesome fan made patch just came out giving the game rollback netcode. Game is much simpler than it always appeared; played a couple dozen smooth matches for the first time online.

 

[Kumubou]

Looks like I picked the right time to get into Melty, because an awesome fan made patch just came out giving the game rollback netcode. Game is much simpler than it always appeared; played a couple dozen smooth matches for the first time online.

It's really goddamn nice to play MB coast to coast with 0-1 delay... kind of wish it came out 5 years ago though. :|

Now come play me for ANY AMOUNT!!!

Spoiler

of waifus

 

[Rhapsody]

Wait, how recent is this netplay patch?

 

[Azure J]

It's really goddamn nice to play MB coast to coast with 0-1 delay... kind of wish it came out 5 years ago though. :|

Now come play me for ANY AMOUNT!!!

Spoiler

of waifus

Might have to come through and see if I can get a decent Shiki Ryougi going on.

 

[Dahbomb]

The more important thing I think is that games need to have solid fundamental systems, and I think SSBM and MvC2 speak to that better than anything. If the game's core rules are solid, it can withstand a ton of bullshit. Both of those games have some really dumb stuff in it but the game lets you work around it.

There is nothing "solid" about MVC2's systems. The game is playable (as stated by many players and those who know about the systems) only because bugs counter bugs or bull shit counters bull shit. It's a freak accident like catching lightning in a bottle and if one or two mechanics were different the game (or worked as intended) would be damn near unplayable. You can't purposely design your game like that.

If push blocking worked as intended then we wouldn't have guard cancel and Sentinel + Spiral would run everything (aka not allow you to play the game). If we didn't have auto guard after push blocks (another bug) then Magneto/Storm could not be defended against.


I don't know much about Melee to comment about it being an "accident" or not but MVC2 is 100% an accident that it is even playable.

 

[Dlent]

Wait, how recent is this netplay patch?

Eight days old.

http://www.meltybread.com/forums/melty-blood-auditorium/cccaster-v1-0a-netplay-client-for-mbaacc-1-4-0/

 

[Kumubou]

Wait, how recent is this netplay patch?

It came out eight days ago. Go ahead and download the latest version and just unzip it into your MBCC directory. It also includes some nice offline features as well, such as the option to broadcast local matches(so people can spectate a local game), hot swappable controllers and in-game button config (!!), and a couple of extra training mode functions (like being able to reset to corners and swap positions). It also lets you add input delay to training mode offline and play training mode online with someone else, because why not.

I actually have a wild idea for MB side tournament at Evo this year using this -- I hope I can pull it off. :x

 

[Azure J]

The way I've always seen it, Melee and MvC2 are polar opposite instances that led to the same outcome in their playability. Melee had an almost OCD level of care given to its various subsystems, to the point that some of them you would have to be invested in studying frame data or breaking down engine code wholesale to see and then think about why a developer would even include such a thing. On the other hand, MVC2 was a Great Pacific Trash Island where a bunch of shit from Capcom's then current-ish games was thrown together and shipped out seemingly to fall apart and die only to instead congeal into something that a competitive scene could tread on.

RockTurtle your taste is fantastic! Real. Yeah, it's a super weird trip but I have a thing for Red Riding Hood so my name stuck =v=

Something I've noticed for a long time is that FightingGAF (including the folks who show up to spectator threads/GAF-chats as I call them) has the highest crossover of OG Manga-GAF regulars out of the sub-GAFs I'm a part of. :lol

 

[Astarte]

i read the manga a long time ago. what a head trip.

*4 armed glasses girl is best girl*

RockTurtle your taste is fantastic! Real. Yeah, it's a super weird trip but I have a thing for Red Riding Hood so my name stuck =v=

Eight days old.

http://www.meltybread.com/forums/melty-blood-auditorium/cccaster-v1-0a-netplay-client-for-mbaacc-1-4-0/

OHHHH LORD

Something I've noticed for a long time is that FightingGAF (including the folks who show up to spectator threads/GAF-chats as I call them) has the highest crossover of OG Manga-GAF regulars out of the sub-GAFs I'm a part of. :lol

FightingGAF is more anime than they want to admit lol

 

[Rhapsody]

Thanks guys. I don't have a working windows computer right now, but I'll be buying a new one soon.

This has me excited for Melty again.

 

[Anne]

Melty is funny. Hopefully this lets me play with some friends who have weaker net.

Also more Persona streams from me are coming soon :x

 

[Beats]

Looks like Smash 4 got some changes in the new patch. The new 3ds update breaks old replays.

There are no detailed patch notes again like last time though.

 

[Azure J]

Looks like Smash 4 got some changes in the new patch. The new 3ds update breaks old replays.

There are no detailed patch notes again like last time though.

Welp, this is going to be exciting. Can't wait to see what gets found out (or the collective effort for "its_fucking_nothing.gif").

 

[theprodigy]

Looks like Smash 4 got some changes in the new patch. The new 3ds update breaks old replays.

There are no detailed patch notes again like last time though.

oh boy I can't wait for all the false alarms!

inb4 vectoring is back and is 2x more effective than it was originally

Spoiler

inb4 absolutely nothing

 

[Kumubou]

Hot on the heels of AnimEVO (now with shirts!) comes... CEOtaku??? Goddamnit.

Melty is funnyamazing.

Fixed.

There is nothing "solid" about MVC2's systems. The game is playable (as stated by many players and those who know about the systems) only because bugs counter bugs or bull shit counters bull shit. It's a freak accident like catching lightning in a bottle and if one or two mechanics were different the game (or worked as intended) would be damn near unplayable. You can't purposely design your game like that.

If push blocking worked as intended then we wouldn't have guard cancel and Sentinel + Spiral would run everything (aka not allow you to play the game). If we didn't have auto guard after push blocks (another bug) then Magneto/Storm could not be defended against.


I don't know much about Melee to comment about it being an "accident" or not but MVC2 is 100% an accident that it is even playable.

I guess my question here is why do you not think pushblock giving you autoguard and blockstun reduction? It was pretty obvious what the tag-team mechanics in MvC1 led to -- you don't think they would sit there and go "gee we might want to give someone a mechanic to help fight this"? Or that they were aware of how unreal high-low mixups and unblockables could get and put in something as a guard against that? Never mind how few truly low hitting assists there are in MvC2... but there are a couple, and I think they were aware of the implications.

I know that trying to grasp at developer intent in a situation like this is a fool's errand, but I think Capcom put a little more thought into the mechanics than most people realize. I don't think you'll find anyone who will disagree that the way the game ended up playing was a goddamn miracle, though.

 

[Anne]

Funny doesn't stop something from being great w.

 

[kirblar]

Can we do a Brolly Legs vs Q Kart Race at EVO ?
Is that not PC? I mean shit... I'll get both of you ( and me) drunk first. I think everyone will have a good time.

Did we ever get a Broly v Q Poison mirror?

 

["God's Beard!"]

I probably won't get to go to Evo because it turns out my wife is 10 weeks pregnant.

What if she was standing next to you on stage at EVO during top 8 and the baby kicked your hand, executing the last hit for the game winning combo. Are you willing to deny that possibility?

 

[kirblar]

Nice timing on the Balance patch from Nintendo. Dropping them right after events like Apex, Capcom Cup, or Evo is definitely the right way to help promote your game.

 

[QisTopTier]

Did we ever get a Broly v Q Poison mirror?

That wouldn't be fair for Broly

Spoiler

He'd feel bad for bodying me.

 

[irfaanator]

should be a game like mvc3 or KI where neither of them play it

 

[Infinite]

Melty is like my second fav fighting game.

 

[Karsticles]

[QUOTE="God's Beard!";151368287]What if she was standing next to you on stage at EVO during top 8 and the baby kicked your hand, executing the last hit for the game winning combo. Are you willing to deny that possibility?[/QUOTE]
She wasn't going to come either way.

Stupid dogs.

 

[CurlyW]

I probably won't get to go to Evo because it turns out my wife is 10 weeks pregnant.

Mazel Tov!

 

[Dahbomb]

I guess my question here is why do you not think pushblock giving you autoguard and blockstun reduction? It was pretty obvious what the tag-team mechanics in MvC1 led to -- you don't think they would sit there and go "gee we might want to give someone a mechanic to help fight this"? Or that they were aware of how unreal high-low mixups and unblockables could get and put in something as a guard against that? Never mind how few truly low hitting assists there are in MvC2... but there are a couple, and I think they were aware of the implications.

They fixed the tag team "issues" in MVC1 by removing those assists entirely (Psylocke, Colossus, Juggernaut etc) and removing the combined hyper mechanic (which was super broken). Aside from that there aren't big tag team mechanics in MVC1 to begin with. MVC2 was completely brand new for them mechanics speaking.

Just like how Tron's assist is not supposed to do that much damage or Akuma/Ken's Tatsu doing hilariously high damage or Juggernaut's power up glitch... these mechanics are clearly unintended. It just so happened that these mechanics ended up negating other bull shit in the game that should never be in a game to begin with.

Some mechanics they put in place for whatever reason but ended up being awful for the game as well. Like the way normal jumping actions and super jumping actions work... it's pretty obvious Capcom did not want you to get hit by unblockables if you did a normal jump. It's also obvious Capcom did not intend for you to get opened up for free on incoming due to the normal jump state. All of these are the results a mechanic Capcom put into play which restricts number of actions in the air INCLUDING blocking.


That said some mechanics in MVC2 are actually good and I wished MVC3 would've retained some of them. Stuff like characters not being able to do air dashes/air moves after resets was good for reset/mix up game. In MVC3 many ground characters who are designed to be reset heavy can't do good resets because a lot of characters can dash out of them... this doesn't exist in MVC2 for better or for worse. Another mechanics is the assists functioning when point characters are hit... while happy birthdays and double snap backs happened in MVC2 they weren't nearly as common as MVC3. It's debatable whether this is a good thing or not for MVC3 as you had to think much harder before pressing that assist button. In MVC2 what would happen is that the assist just comes in and does a taunt if the point character just got hit so the happy birthday chance is greatly reduced.

 

[Parallax Scroll]

South Florida tournament. Flocker vs Greenace atm.

http://www.twitch.tv/flippers360

 

[fader]

I'M SO DONE WITH DELAY BASED ONLINE FOR FIGHTING GAMES!!

It's like impossible to react block to things I block offline, things that are 2 frame punishable are impossible to punish, anti-air trades all the freaking time because the game doesn't register it fast enough. I am so sick of playing on delay, this shit sucks!

 

[Kadey]

Aris is officially a speedrunner .

 

[pixelish]

Aris is officially a speedrunner .

i can't believe i sat through the entire thing.

 

[mbpm1]

I'M SO DONE WITH DELAY BASED ONLINE FOR FIGHTING GAMES!!

It's like impossible to react block to things I block offline, things that are 2 frame punishable are impossible to punish, anti-air trades all the freaking time because the game doesn't register it fast enough. I am so sick of playing on delay, this shit sucks!

It's the worst when you wanna play a charge character too.

Chun lol

 

[Karsticles]

I'M SO DONE WITH DELAY BASED ONLINE FOR FIGHTING GAMES!!

It's like impossible to react block to things I block offline, things that are 2 frame punishable are impossible to punish, anti-air trades all the freaking time because the game doesn't register it fast enough. I am so sick of playing on delay, this shit sucks!

Done with Xrd?

Mazel Tov!

Thank you!

 

[DryEyeRelief]

Aris is officially a speedrunner .

It's funny because he said he didn't get speedrunning in the last ATP live

 

[Dlent]

I'M SO DONE WITH DELAY BASED ONLINE FOR FIGHTING GAMES!!

It's like impossible to react block to things I block offline, things that are 2 frame punishable are impossible to punish, anti-air trades all the freaking time because the game doesn't register it fast enough. I am so sick of playing on delay, this shit sucks!

Scroll up this page for a suggestion on something you might want to try out.

 

[fader]

It's the worst when you wanna play a charge character too.

Chun lol

I don't even touch Guile online and that's one of my favorite characters to play

Done with Xrd?

I love Xrd too much to suffer online. I gave up after the 2nd week.

Scroll up this page for a suggestion on something you might want to try out.

I am willing to play any game that is rollback. I am sticking to fightcade and any other game that is rollback.

 

[Rhapsody]

Scroll up this page for a suggestion on something you might want to try out.

I like that sneaky PSA.

 

[Nyoro SF]

Skullgirls online is pretty divine. Don't give a fuck what Capcom thinks is acceptable, if their netcode experience doesn't match Skullgirls then your fighter might as well be dead to me.

Give me dat numerical ping... dat numerical delay adjuster... dat.... everything.

 

[BakedYams]

Can someone give me a rundown as to where I can play Melty? PM if necessary.

 

[vulva]

Well standing up is pretty hard for me

thatsthejoke.png

 

[Infinite]

Can someone give me a rundown as to where I can play Melty? PM if necessary.

AHAHAHA

 

[Kumubou]

Can someone give me a rundown as to where I can play Melty? PM if necessary.

If you already have the game, you can download the netplay client here. There really aren't any matchmaking services, but someone was nuts enough to create a web-based lobby system. Otherwise, you'll have to go old school and trade IPs with people.

If you're looking to buy the game itself... you can't. No, really. It's impossible because of Reasons.

 

[Anne]

Yeah you literally cannot legally obtain the game at this point.

 

[QisTopTier]

The game was so bad Japan banned all sells of the game.

Spoiler

Not really it's not a bad game.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Worst idea ever. Going by suggestions said here you are all horrible and please never name your own children.

Real men introduce themselves first. Damn rude babies.

 

[Karsticles]

We already have names picked out. :-O
Thanks to everyone who gave congratulations. Hopefully everything goes smoothly. First time, and all that. My wife throws up at least three times a day right now...