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Fighting Games Weekly | June 11-17

Thanks for the info on the Devil's playground, USD. It was an amazing display of Vampire talent for sure. Up and comers like Hisahi and that BB Hood player(it's 5AM :p) really put on a show and proved their worth. Kaji is just monsterous and definitely showed us once again that VSav is the king of crazy comebacks and unexpected low tier miracles. I like that the Japanese are trying slightly longer sets in a tournament setting instead of just 1 match elim rules. American GGPO was in there stream monstering like no other. Even GAF lurkers were in there having fun with the rest of us. No FGC GAF regulars though.

Great stream. I can't wait until DCC in the Winter.
This game is so much rushdown I don't even notice the health dropping XD.
That'll happen a lot at first. It becomes second nature to keep a watchful eye on your health after a while. The game is just so insanely fast that it's hard to keep track of it all.
 

Tizoc

Member
Thanks for the info on the Devil's playground, USD. It was an amazing display of Vampire talent for sure. Up and comers like Hisahi and that BB Hood player(it's 5AM :p) really put on a show and proved their worth. Kaji is just monsterous and definitely showed us once again that VSav is the king of crazy comebacks and unexpected low tier miracles. I like that the Japanese are trying slightly longer sets in a tournament setting instead of just 1 match elim rules. American GGPO was in there stream monstering like no other. Even GAF lurkers were in there having fun with the rest of us. No FGC GAF regulars though.

Great stream. I can't wait until DCC in the Winter.

That'll happen a lot at first. It becomes second nature to keep a watchful eye on your health after a while. The game is just so insanely fast that it's hard to keep track of it all.

You know I now notice what some are saying about speed of FGs. Looking at most modern Fighting games, their speed is slower than what VS is (not that that's a bad thing, I consider myself one to prfer if things were 'slow').
Just wish there was a good port of the game(s) on PSN, I know Vita has the Darkstalkers Collection, but I wish JPN PSN had the PS2 Collection as it's as close to arcade perfect as possible @_@
 

USD

Member
2nd TOPANGA League ROUND 5 is live:

http://live.nicovideo.jp/watch/lv94104851

Today's match-ups, in order:

Sasaki (Cody) vs. Juso (Sakura)
3-1 ○●○○
Kyabetsu (C.Viper) vs. Dashio (Seth)
3-0 ○○○
Naruo (Evil Ryu) vs. Sasaki (Cody)
3-2 ●○●○○
VER (Gouken) vs. Kyabetsu (C.Viper)
2-3 ●○●○●
Yazu (Guile) vs. Juso (Sakura)
2-3 ○○●●●
Ojisan Boy (Abel) vs. Kyabetsu (C.Viper)
0-3 ●●●
6 (Akuma) vs. Machabo (Fei Long)
2-3 ●●○○●
Dashio (Seth) vs. Yazu (Guile)
3-0 ○○○
Ojisan Boy (Abel) vs. Pamyu (Balrog)
1-3 ●●○●
Sasaki (Cody) vs. 6 (Akuma)
2-3 ●●○○●
VER (Gouken) vs. Machabo (Fei Long)
0-3 ●●●
Naruo (Evil Ryu) vs. Yazu (Guile)
3-2 ○●●○○
 

CPS2

Member

Great news! I didn't really expect them to fix up some of these problems after the game's been out for so long, good that it hasn't been forgotten about.

I think I remember playing ranked once, realising it didn't have a filter, realising the only way I could play the game was with friends lists, and then just doing that. Sucks when there's no point to an entire mode, I love ranked when they implement it properly. Hope a few people give it another shot once the patch is out.
 
You know I now notice what some are saying about speed of FGs. Looking at most modern Fighting games, their speed is slower than what VS is (not that that's a bad thing, I consider myself one to prfer if things were 'slow').
Just wish there was a good port of the game(s) on PSN, I know Vita has the Darkstalkers Collection, but I wish JPN PSN had the PS2 Collection as it's as close to arcade perfect as possible @_@
Was this your first Vampire stream?

The Japanese have been streaming like this for years and anyone who knows about GGPO surely knows how fast the game is. It's definitely the third fastest fighting game ever made behind MvC3 and MvC2. MvC3 is only faster because of X-factor though. The superjumps in both of those games can slow the pace a bit. Mike Z definitely chose well when he copied Vampire's low ceiling fighting for Skullgirls(might have been influenced by GG, who knows). Fights move really fast when you can't jump fifty feet into the air. The 3% speedboost for SG might put it up there Vampire too.

Vampire also handles recoverable health and safe jab pressure SO MUCH better than Street Fighter x Tekken. The tech hits in VSav are a huge part of the game's system imo.

Rough tier list(very rough since Lilith and Morgs get up there easily)
S:
Zabel
Sasquatch

A:
Q.Bee
Jon Talbain
B.B. Hood
Rikuo

B:
Felicia
Bishamon
Hsien-Ko
Demitri

C:
Jedah
Morrigan
Lilith
Victor
Anakaris

Bold for top 3.
 

Tizoc

Member
Was this your first Vampire stream?
I've watched a few before.

The Japanese have been streaming like this for years and anyone who knows about GGPO surely knows how fast the game is. It's definitely the third fastest fighting game ever made behind MvC3 and MvC2. MvC3 is only faster because of X-factor though.
I meant more in terms of game speed and character movement than flow of the match.
...and KFC should be toned down to being only Lvl. 1 and requiring some of your meter to activate (3 meters outside a combo, 2 if activated during a combo).

The superjumps in both of those games can slow the pace a bit. Mike Z definitely chose well when he copied Vampire's low ceiling fighting for Skullgirls(might have been influenced by GG, who knows). Fights move really fast when you can't jump fifty feet into the air. The 3% speedboost for SG might put it up there Vampire too.
Hmm I don't notice the ceiling thing much in fighting games TBH/

Vampire also handles recoverable health and safe jab pressure SO MUCH better than Street Fighter x Tekken. The tech hits in VSav are a huge part of the game's system imo.
SFxT's grey health should reduce the longer a character with grey health is on the screen, this was in one of the earlier builds of the game, that would speed matches up a little bit.
Agreed about Light attacks tho.

Rough tier list(very rough since Lilith and Morgs get up there easily)
S:
Zabel
Sasquatch

A:
Q.Bee
Jon Talbain
B.B. Hood
Rikuo

B:
Felicia
Bishamon
Hsien-Ko
Demitri

C:
Jedah
Morrigan
Lilith
Victor
Anakaris

Bold for top 3.

I actually know about VS' tier list, and yours looks very much like the last one I read some months ago.
Victor has always been Bottom/Low tier though lol.
 
Was this your first Vampire stream?

The Japanese have been streaming like this for years and anyone who knows about GGPO surely knows how fast the game is. It's definitely the third fastest fighting game ever made behind MvC3 and MvC2. MvC3 is only faster because of X-factor though. The superjumps in both of those games can slow the pace a bit. Mike Z definitely chose well when he copied Vampire's low ceiling fighting for Skullgirls(might have been influenced by GG, who knows). Fights move really fast when you can't jump fifty feet into the air. The 3% speedboost for SG might put it up there Vampire too.

Vampire also handles recoverable health and safe jab pressure SO MUCH better than Street Fighter x Tekken. The tech hits in VSav are a huge part of the game's system imo.

Rough tier list(very rough since Lilith and Morgs get up there easily)
S:
Zabel
Sasquatch

A:
Q.Bee
Jon Talbain
B.B. Hood
Rikuo

B:
Felicia
Bishamon
Hsien-Ko
Demitri

C:
Jedah
Morrigan
Lilith
Victor
Anakaris

Bold for top 3.
How does Darkstalkers handle safe jab pressure?

And I don't get your tier list. Why are those three bolded as "best" if they're lower tiers?
 
How does Darkstalkers handle safe jab pressure?
Pushblock or "tech hits" in Vsav allow you to attack your opponent more quickly even if they are in the middle of a move. I think it shortens your blockstun in addition to pushing the opponent away. Skullgirls has a similar setup iirc, except it works with 2 buttons and can be mapped to a single button just like Mahvel. This means that recklessly throwing moves out there may easily see you getting caught in a counter hit into super. It adds a layer of depth when fighting someone up close. Guard cancels(basically alpha counters) are also a gigantic part of the defensive game, but they are character specific. Some GC are better than others.

Mahvel's pushblock is far more simple in comparison since it only pushes the opponent away.

Fake edit: My apologies if my explanation is foggy or just plain incorrect. I can hang with tough players, but I'm terrible at the technical jargon for all fighting games.

Edit#2: Better explanation here.
And I don't get your tier list. Why are those three bolded as "best" if they're lower tiers?
The tiers in VSav are sort of inconclusive. There is an indisputable top tier, but Morrigan and Lilith make it to top 4 regularly. They definitely lack the toolset and advantages that other characters have. Anak can also win tournaments, but the only person on this planet who can do that is Mightymar afaik.

Fake edit: Top 3 players at the tournament used those characters. Kaji won with Lilith, Sakai(terrifying player) was the Zabel player and Hisashi was the newcomer(at least compared to Ego) with Hsien-Ko. I was responding to Tizoc so I made the mistake of not fully explaining what I meant by "top 3".
 

Tizoc

Member
Pushblock or "tech hits" in Vsav allow you to attack your opponent more quickly even if they are in the middle of a move. I think it shortens your blockstun in addition to pushing the opponent away. Skullgirls has a similar setup iirc, except it works with 2 buttons and can be mapped to a single button just like Mahvel. This means that recklessly throwing moves out there may easily see you getting caught in a counter hit into super. It adds a layer of depth when fighting someone up close. Guard cancels(basically alpha counters) are also a gigantic part of the defensive game, but they are character specific. Some GC are better than others.
Hmmm after watching various older fighting games, SSF4 could really go with a guard gauge like in CvSNK2.


The tiers in VSav are sort of inconclusive. There is an indisputable top tier, but Morrigan and Lilith make it to top 4 regularly. They definitely lack the toolset and advantages that other characters have. Anak can also win tournaments, but the only person on this planet who can do that is Mightymar afaik.
...but but what about Chikyuu?!
Primary objective: Be Chikyuu.
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Anakaris

Fake edit: Top 3 players at the tournament used those characters. Kaji won with Lilith, Sakai(terrifying player) was the Zabel player and Hisashi was the newcomer(at least compared to Ego) with Hsien-Ko. I was responding to Tizoc so I made the mistake of not fully explaining what I meant by "top 3".

Speaking of Lei-Lei, would you say she's a 'gimmicky' character in VS/Darkstalkers 3?
 
Thanks Solar. Looking at the Morrigan page makes me sad. I want Cryptic Needle in Marvel!

Why does Darkstalkers have 3 hit/hurtboxes per image? There's a green, a blue, and a red:
Mori_jMK.png


Normally, red = hitbox, green = hurtbox. So what's blue?

For some reason my image showed up and then didn't...just look on this page for what I'm talking about:
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Morrigan
 
I meant more in terms of game speed and character movement than flow of the match.
I meant that. I should have been clearer. Characters in VSav are stupid fast. Q.Bee is basically MvC2 Magneto with ridiculous hitboxes. She literally has some normals(especially air normals) that nearly cover half the screen. Pair that with her insanely fast tracking air dash and you can see why Capcom keeps putting Morrigan into versus games instead of the other characters lol.
...and KFC should be toned down to being only Lvl. 1 and requiring some of your meter to activate (3 meters outside a combo, 2 if activated during a combo).
What is a KFC?
Hmm I don't notice the ceiling thing much in fighting games TBH/
I did not notice it until Mike Z pointed it out. It makes a lot of sense.
SFxT's grey health should reduce the longer a character with grey health is on the screen, this was in one of the earlier builds of the game, that would speed matches up a little bit.
An interesting idea. It builds up fast as hell when the character is tagged out.
I actually know about VS' tier list, and yours looks very much like the last one I read some months ago.
Yeah, it is. I just made it up without even checking though. It becomes apparent that Sas is ridiculous when you fight him and I understand why everyone hates Talbain. That wolf fucker is like the Wesker of old fighting games lol.
Victor has always been Bottom/Low tier though lol.
Victor is still terrifying in the right hands.
Hmmm after watching various older fighting games, SSF4 could really go with a guard gauge like in CvSNK2.
I'd be happier if they added air special blocks(normals are still AAs) and faster walk speeds to the SFIV series. I don't complain too much about that game these days since we have so many alternatives available now and SFxT makes everything look better.
Never seen him play(or I can't recall). Gonna have to check this guy out.
Speaking of Lei-Lei, would you say she's a 'gimmicky' character in VS/Darkstalkers 3?
I'd say so. Her movement patterns were basically one of a kind for the longest time thanks to her pendulum and she is a pixie rushdown cannon that packs a stagewide disruption super in her TRH. She can cross the stage in a second flat and her pendulum cancels can literally take her to the top of the screen. She has no health, no DP, and a shitty DC, but her hitboxes/TRH turn her into one of the scariest characters in the game if she has meter since she has like half a dozen ways to throw out her TRH. She also does not autocorrect on her air normals and doesn't have crossup normals, but her ground mixups are stupid hard to block and she has one of the easiest unblockables in the game using her hp overhead item toss(not to mention her insanely low instant air dashes). Her gongs are also extremely fast and her ES Gong makes for easy ass blockstrings into command grabs.

gimmicks galore
Why does Darkstalkers have 3 hit/hurtboxes per image? There's a green, a blue, and a red:
Mori_jMK.png


Normally, red = hitbox, green = hurtbox. So what's blue?

For some reason my image showed up and then didn't...just look on this page for what I'm talking about:
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Morrigan
Box colors:

Blue: Hittable area
Red: Attack area
Green: Push box. Physical collision/existence box
http://wiki.mizuumi.net/w/Vampire_Savior/Hitbox
 

Tizoc

Member
^i KNOW man, that was in 60 FPS, makes one wonder how good it'd look on our HDTVs X3

If anyone's interested here are some VF5 ranbats from IPW-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wr6Fx4P1lq4&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyxcPhEd_R8&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAwDVCStkek&feature=plcp

I meant that. I should have been clearer. Characters in VSav are stupid fast. Q.Bee is basically MvC2 Magneto with ridiculous hitboxes. She literally has some normals(especially air normals) that nearly cover half the screen. Pair that with her insanely fast tracking air dash and you can see why Capcom keeps putting Morrigan into versus games instead of the other characters lol.
I thought Morrigan was added for other reasons lol.

What is a KFC?
X-Factor, that's what it was abbreviated to back in the day.

An interesting idea. It builds up fast as hell when the character is tagged out.
Indeed, but I think if u tag in a cahracter with grey health they lose it?

Yeah, it is. I just made it up without even checking though. It becomes apparent that Sas is ridiculous when you fight him and I understand why everyone hates Talbain. That wolf fucker is like the Wesker of old fighting games lol.
If I made my own SvC/CvSNK, I'd give Talbain low-ish health to compensate for his speed and easy offensive options.

Victor is still terrifying in the right hands.
Vids plz? I'd love to see how well he can be played.

I'd say so. Her movement patterns were basically one of a kind for the longest time thanks to her pendulum and she is a pixie rushdown cannon that packs a stagewide disruption super in her TRH. She can cross the stage in a second flat and her pendulum cancels can literally take her to the top of the screen. She has no health, no DP, and a shitty DC, but her hitboxes/TRH turn her into one of the scariest characters in the game if she has meter since she has like half a dozen ways to throw out her TRH. She also does not autocorrect on her air normals and doesn't have crossup normals, but her ground mixups are stupid hard to block and she has one of the easiest unblockables in the game using her hp overhead item toss(not to mention her insanely low instant air dashes). Her gongs are also extremely fast and her ES Gong makes for easy ass blockstrings into command grabs.

gimmicks galore
Wonder if she was like that in VH/Darkstalkers' Revenge?
I still feel a little salty that her boobs made it into VS and Donovan was given the shaft =P
 
Thanks Solar.

@Tizoc: "KFC" didn't even make it past launch as a term. It got flushed out pretty fast. It's also well balanced as it is. A few individual characters could use adjustments, though.
 
Thanks Solar.
no problem
Vids plz? I'd love to see how well he can be played.
This is the general video thread on Dustloop for Darkstalkers. You'll find good videos there.
Wonder if she was like that in VH/Darkstalkers' Revenge?
I still feel a little salty that her boobs made it into VS and Donovan was given the shaft =P
I can barely keep track of the different Darkstalkers games because of the naming between the US and Japan. I think she sucked in the second game. She got better in Savior.

Also, Donovan is cool, but he lacks trenchcoat and glasses.
 

Tizoc

Member
@Solar- thanks for the link.
There are actually 5 Darkstalkers arcade games, I'll use the JPN naming to list them-
1- Vampire
2- Vampire Hunter
3- Vampire Savior
4- VS2 and VH2
VH2 uses VH characters but has gameplay elements from VS, it also removes some characters that were in VS from it.
VS2 has VH characters but removes some characters as well IIRC.

The console ports worth mentioning are-
The Saturn releases as they are close to arcade perfect
The Dream cast release which was close to arcade perfect as well+had online
Vampire Collection on PS2, released only in JPN
Darkstalkers on PSP

Thanks Solar.

@Tizoc: "KFC" didn't even make it past launch as a term. It got flushed out pretty fast. It's also well balanced as it is. A few individual characters could use adjustments, though.

Here's the thing tho; X-Factor resembles the Power-up one could get in KoF 98 and N-Groove in CvSNK 2. In those 2 games, the effect/status is activated by consuming 1 stock of your meter. Why can't that be the same in UMvC3? Consume 2-3 stocks to activate it?
Furthermore, one character becomes incredibly powerful if they activate it when the last character left, why not just keep the attack boost at 25% and not affecting supers or Lvl. 3 supers+any other buffs? That sounds more balanced IMO.
 

USD

Member
2nd TOPANGA League match results for today:

R (Guy) vs. Yoshiwo (Guile)
3-1 ○●○○
- Commentator Exhibition
Dashio (Seth) vs. Juso (Sakura)
3-0 ○○○
YHC-Mochi (Dhalsim) vs. Kyabetsu (C.Viper)
2-3 ○●●○●
Ojisan Boy (Abel) vs. Sasaki (Cody)
1-3 ●●○●
Juso (Sakura) vs. Machabo (Fei Long)
3-0 ○○○
Dashio (Seth) vs. Pamyu (Balrog)
0-3 ●●●
Kyabetsu (C.Viper) vs. Juso (Sakura)
3-1 ●○●●
Ojisan Boy (Abel) vs. Naruo (Evil Ryu)
1-3 ●●○●
YHC-Mochi (Dhalsim) vs. 6 (Akuma)
3-0 ○○○
Naruo (Evil Ryu) vs. Kyabetsu (C.Viper)
3-2 ●●○○○
YHC-Mochi (Dhalsim) vs. Pamyu (Balrog) - Delayed due to connection problems
6 (Akuma) vs. Dashio (Seth)
0-3 ●●●
Naruo (Evil Ryu) vs. Machabo (Fei Long)
2-3 ○●○●●
Machabo (Fei Long) vs. Dashio (Seth)
3-2 ○●○●○
- Replacement match
 

Tizoc

Member
2nd TOPANGA League match results for today:

R (Guy) vs. Yoshiwo (Guile)
3-1 ○●○○
- Commentator Exhibition
Dashio (Seth) vs. Juso (Sakura)
3-0 ○○○
YHC-Mochi (Dhalsim) vs. Kyabetsu (C.Viper)
2-3 ○●●○●
Ojisan Boy (Abel) vs. Sasaki (Cody)
1-3 ●●○●

Woah I'd like to see all but the Dashio matches, especially the first one.

Anyone up for some Melty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l7fQZSO6R-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6-vEU2qoxk&feature=plcp

With the FG boom going on I really wish this game got a PSN release =/
 

Westlo

Member
That ground crossover lk (?) tatsu by Sak is so dirty lol, thank fuck it only works on a few characters (I think).

Edit - lol YHCMochi was like 1 hit away from perfecting -6 and than got hit by a sweep, lost the match from that point...
 

Westlo

Member
I really wish you guys could watch these TOPANGA League matches, today has been CRAZY.

The Viper and Evil Ryu match was nuts.

How were days 3, 4 and 5? I didn't get a chance to watch them (don't know the results) and with NBA finals, ECT and now CEO and just being busy... hopefully get to watch them before the FT10 sets start for B-League.
 

USD

Member
The Viper and Evil Ryu match was nuts.

How were days 3, 4 and 5? I didn't get a chance to watch them (don't know the results) and with NBA finals, ECT and now CEO and just being busy... hopefully get to watch them before the FT10 sets start for B-League.

Machabo vs. Pamyu on Day 3 was really good. Mochi did some impressive stuff on Day 4. VER is always entertaining, even though he hasn't really been winning matches.
Are they on YT or archived on Nico?
It's on Nico, but you have to have paid for the ticket to be able to watch.
 

Tizoc

Member
Machabo vs. Pamyu on Day 3 was really good. Mochi did some impressive stuff on Day 4. VER is always entertaining, even though he hasn't really been winning matches.

It's on Nico, but you have to have paid for the ticket to be able to watch.

*Raises fist* NIPPOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!

So anyone wanna watch some Garou MotW matches?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDl92WN8f_k&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vt-A5OFi4qA&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sESrGQfZLng&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTLw_dVFH0E&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFHnGXSxnQk&feature=plcp
Seems to have a lot of Gatos though.
 
Woah I'd like to see all but the Dashio matches, especially the first one.

Anyone up for some Melty?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=l7fQZSO6R-I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6-vEU2qoxk&feature=plcp

With the FG boom going on I really wish this game got a PSN release =/

The last I heard French Bread really wanted to bring the game to HD consoles, but they faced a lot of obstacles, particularly from Type Moon. You are better off waiting for their new game to be out, which should be in arcades in Sep and might have a console release sometime after that.
 

Tizoc

Member
The last I heard French Bread really wanted to bring the game to HD consoles, but they faced a lot of obstacles, particularly from Type Moon. You are better off waiting for their new game to be out, which should be in arcades in Sep and might have a console release sometime after that.

InBirth's releasing in Sep? Cool, hope we do get a console release for it X3
 
Here's the thing tho; X-Factor resembles the Power-up one could get in KoF 98 and N-Groove in CvSNK 2. In those 2 games, the effect/status is activated by consuming 1 stock of your meter. Why can't that be the same in UMvC3? Consume 2-3 stocks to activate it?
Furthermore, one character becomes incredibly powerful if they activate it when the last character left, why not just keep the attack boost at 25% and not affecting supers or Lvl. 3 supers+any other buffs? That sounds more balanced IMO.
Because X-Factor is, and needs to be, a comeback mechanic to balance out loss of team synergy. Marvel is not a game like Street Fighter, where you have just as much chance to win with good play at 20% health as you do at 100%. When you lose a character in Marvel, you lost a part of your capacity to make things happen. No one aside from JWong has made an X-Factorless comeback in Marvel 3, and it's for a good reason.
 
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