Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Phase 3 Impression: Phase 4 August

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And he explained why very well.
When you take out player agency in damage inpuyt/output, and give authority to bare numbers, it is easier to balance content out.
You just need to deal with numbers after all, players' skill can be removed out of the equation.

It makes sense in the perspective he cited, a long term mmo experience, faster and more agile content development etc.

He even brought up the counterargument, about stronger internet connections and the recent move towards action combat in other mmos.

I don't agree with his assesment either, but he sure explained himself flawlessly. His logic is there for everyone to see.

The problem with dumbing down the combat way too much is that there won't be any challenge for many players. They'll hit the cap, be bored, and quit. It's certainly true that you need the hardcore players and the casual ones and I'm glad Yoshida acknowledges this, but the reality is that the hardcore players are the ones who stick around and keep paying for the game after they hit the cap. Especially for a subscription model, which is the hardest model for an MMO to sustain which Yoshida also correctly acknowledges.

That being said, the problem with combat which is very difficult, which relies on exact timing which means you die if your Internet even hiccups for a second, and demands dying repeatedly for a week or more to clear the boss once will be too much of a challenge for many players. All but the most hardcore will try the instance, decide nope, and quit. This is especially problematic if you gate a soul-crushing gear grind behind said content, creating a game where the most hardcore have insanely overpowered gear and can easily kill everyone else in PvP due to sheer bigger numbers on their items.Tera's Argon Queen instance is a pretty good example of this, and it basically killed the entire endgame of that MMO.

Balancing an MMO is the hardest thing in the world because millions of players spend their days trying hard to break it in every imaginable way. I just hope Yoshida knows what he is doing, because right now combat lacks depth in even basic ways that other MMOs, including FFXI, have a great deal more of. The fact that he is unwilling to even introduce some of the more advanced elements in nearly decade-and-a-half old FFXI should be troubling to say the least.
 
For Pugilists, any thoughts on which cross-class abilities it's worth taking time to level up to? I've got Lancer to 15. Are there any particularly super-useful early abilities on the other classes?
 
Wooo just starting out on Ultros. Soo hyped!

Is there a good starting guides available? I never played 1.0, only the beta for it (which I believe was even more horrible than the actual game...)
 
I finished the first instance, reminded me a lot of WoW, it was kinda hard because we had no Tank.

The only screenshot I took, I'm having a lot of fun, but I NEED DUTY FINDER!

3ltkJ
 
For Pugilists, any thoughts on which cross-class abilities it's worth taking time to level up to? I've got Lancer to 15. Are there any particularly super-useful early abilities on the other classes?

Level 4 Archer for Raging Strikes. It's a short self-buff for 20% increased damage.

Other than that, there's not much early on unless you want defensive self-buffs.

Level 6 Marauder for Rupture which is a physical skill with DoT, but the DoT is very weak.

Level 8 Marauder for Bloodbath which is 25% HP drained by skills for 15s. Haven't used it enough to know if it's worth it.
 
That being said, the problem with combat which is very difficult, which relies on exact timing which means you die if your Internet even hiccups for a second, and demands dying repeatedly for a week or more to clear the boss once will be too much of a challenge for many players. All but the most hardcore will try the instance, decide nope, and quit. This is especially problematic if you gate a soul-crushing gear grind behind said content, creating a game where the most hardcore have insanely overpowered gear and can easily kill everyone else in PvP due to sheer bigger numbers on their items.Tera's Argon Queen instance is a pretty good example of this, and it basically killed the entire endgame of that MMO.

Honestly, Regents (BoE so moot point) and VM in Tera isn't THAT much better than Abyss/Dismay and Conjunct, which are much easier to get.

Making good enough gear easy to get and making some super hard dungeons that give you slightly (5-10%) better gear seems perfectly fine to me. The most hardcore will go for the very best while everyone else can do all content fine with slightly worse gear.
 
Honestly, Regents (BoE so moot point) and VM in Tera isn't THAT much better than Abyss/Dismay and Conjunct, which are much easier to get.

VM actually got nerfed slightly in PvP and Conjunct boosted slightly because how stupidly OP VM was. Now instead of being stupidly OP, it's just hilariously OP. Progress, I suppose. No one ever figured out why being good at a PvE instance, the Argon Queen, granted you access to VM which is the best PvP gear in the game. But that's Bluehole for you.

Making good enough gear easy to get and making some super hard dungeons that give you slightly (5-10%) better gear seems perfectly fine to me. The most hardcore will go for the very best while everyone else can do all content fine with slightly worse gear.

I'm speaking mainly about PvP, where gear differences were so bad that they have been running "Balanced PvP" weekends for Battlegrounds where your gear is normalized when you enter the BG. Everyone knows gear is a problem which Bluehole seem eternally incapable of addressing, in addition to the horrible class imbalances in PvP. There's a reason why some classes are entirely absent from the Arena rankings and others are grossly overrepresented, it's because PvP in Tera is so insultingly unbalanced.
 
I made this post in the beta forums. I can't believe no one else could have realized this, but I'll cross-post it here and you guys can think about it too.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Te...-aren-t-enough-quests-for-your-secondary-jobs.

There aren't enough quests for your secondary jobs.

This should be self-explanatory. I've been experimenting with this after hitting 20 on my first job in this beta, test-leveling second and third jobs to see what it's like.

Your first job you level, you have the story quests, you have your guild quests, and you have quests given by NPCs in camps. Leveling your first job is smooth, you don't even need to do a single guildleve. FATE is nice and supplements your XP going to and from quest locations.

Your second and third jobs, assuming you choose them in a different city from the one you start in, level more slowly. You still have your guild quests and you have the quests given by NPCs in camps. However, in testing this I've found that I still run out of quests pretty easily between levels 5-10 and then 10-15, I'll finish my guild quest and do all the accessible camp quests and I'm not at the point where I can move to the next camp. At this point I resort to guildleves. You only seem to get the big XP bonus for first completion of a guildhest, making them a oneshot which is useless after that. FATE is still okay here, because you're still passing them randomly as you quest.

All your remaining jobs will be very bad. It will be mostly like 1.0 was, you'll be relying entirely on guildleves because you will have no quests to do besides your guild quests every 5 levels and they don't give 5 levels worth of XP. The grind to level your remaining jobs after you get your first 3 jobs to cap will be awful, because individual mob kills don't give hardly any XP at all. This of course leaves out FATE but those only spawn occasionally and unless you want to wait around doing nothing for a FATE, you can't rely on them for XP. They're nice when they do pop and you run super fast to the point on the map to get some quick XP but they're not in any way something you can count on for leveling smoothly. Guildhest is even worse, because as far as I can tell, you only get the big XP bonus for first completion, so they are pretty worthless once you've done them once.

This will need to be addressed before launch. The benefit to having all jobs on one character is you don't need 7 alts. The drawback to all jobs on one character is that if you had 7 alts, each alt would have all the quests again because it's an entirely new character and leveling would be much easier whereas here you don't. This is very bad, and I'm not sure anybody realized just how bad it's going to be just yet since no one is trying to level their 2nd or 3rd jobs in this beta, much less their 4th+ jobs.
 
HI everyone i have a question.

I'm currently a lancer ..But i sometimes wish i can go solo, exploring anddo stuff .Do that i need a solid way to heal myself.i've already tried potions , but the potion and hi-potion countdown after 1 use is not that usefull.

So 'im wondering if i should pick another job i order to learn some stuff usefull i'm thinking conjurer to be able to heal myself ( cure should be there, right ? )

Is there another possibility besides doing that ?
 
I made this post in the beta forums. I can't believe no one else could have realized this, but I'll cross-post it here and you guys can think about it too.

It has been reported numerous times already since phase 1, you can only level your secondary jobs by grinding, doing leves and completing the hunting logs of your secondary job right now.
 
It has been reported numerous times already since phase 1, you can only level your secondary jobs by grinding, doing leves and completing the hunting logs of your secondary job right now.

Which is kinda bullshit. Both jobs should level from the same things to help ease grind.

Is there a way to import my 1.0 character and stats? I see her name on the list, but when I choose her, it starts me over at level 1. :(

Don't you level faster as a legacy?

Yoshi-P said:
Recent MMORPGs are beginning to shift to a more action based game; however, I personally feel that this is one element that acts as a reverse effect for MMORPGs that are striving to operate for a long time with a subscription-based model (This is separate from cases where you are shortening the lifecycle for a single MMORPG user. In that case it is correct.). As I mentioned previously, the road blocks on the way to getting used to an MMORPG are too high and adding action elements into the mix, while definitely exciting, makes it extremely difficult for the common player to repeat these battles everyday for hundreds of hours.

And why can't he have his ATB-like slower-battle-system in FF14 turn F2P? Because the combat takes longer he'd have less players paying money?

In order to make it so FINAL FANTASY XIV: A Realm Reborn does not just become a fetch quest game we decided to add some variety and flavor. Of course, we’ve created a really large story since this is a new FINAL FANTASY title after all. However, for the so-called side-quests that have been spread along the main questing line, we’ve done our best to reduce the text, making it so the text can be skipped by spamming through it. For quests where major characters appear, we’ve made this clear by adding a special icon, and also spruced them up to make them exciting by adding voices and cutscenes. While we did not add voices to class and job quests, we still made them with the same thought process.

I'll admit, the quest design and showing when the story is "special" with a photo in the quest menu is nice. Very different from the norm. I hope other MMO's copy that design.

It has been reported numerous times already since phase 1, you can only level your secondary jobs by grinding, doing leves and completing the hunting logs of your secondary job right now.

Is there a way to import my 1.0 character and stats? I see her name on the list, but when I choose her, it starts me over at level 1. :(

- Story and characters are boring. There's way too much text in this game that nobody is going to care about reading. Its useless drivel. Every quest person gives you a wall of text and you're just like "tldr" since you already know where to go and what to do.

Disagree. I actually like the quest writing.

Basically everything is super easy so far and boring. You don't need to think about much at all. Feels like there's no skill required. You're just leveling up and killing things. And there's no enticement to keep going with a plot that you care about.

Read the developers comments. It's intentionally like this until you reach the party-required levels to bring newer players in. Which makes sense in the learning curve design.

But I agree with you on the quest design. MMO's have been too reliant on "go here, kill this, pick this up, go there and deliver it" quest design. Surely there's more to do/see than that?

And I don't agree with his subscription wants. I'd play FF14 (and 11!) if they were turned free to play. I feel like Square isn't going that route to attempt to bail water from the ship after slamming into the iceberg that was 1.0 and not just admitting it.

But I can see his point on content development for those free to play titles. Maybe making end-game content or a "subscriber gets new content" fee or something where they can pump content out from player support would work? I dunno. But I can't see new players (like me) jumping onto 14 when there's MMO's like Teria or other F2P ones out there.
 
What a bad time for my internet to be down. Won't be fixed 'til Monday either, so I'll miss this beta weekend entirely since I don't feel like playing with tethered 3G.

Don't kick me from the LS. I WILL RETURN!
 
I agree that the quest writing and story is boring. I've read almost everything they threw at me and I remember nothing, and still don't really know where the hell I am or what am I doing.
That said I've done mostly the Gridania region. This is like an administration building. Nothing makes sense and yet they keep talking while saying nothing.
 
Can someone invite me to the GAF clan or whatever? I'm on Ultros. I don't know how to join. What is /tell? I'm on PS3.

Ytwokev Bug
 
Just to post as someone here from the beginning, the game is such a home run now.

The original felt like such a generic MMORPG and its ridiculous systems (random skill point gain, the crafting system, the copypasta) really did it in before it even started. There was no real FF storyline brewing, aside from your character being special with being able to see 'Echos' of the past.

The new version is super drenched in FF lore, has a new crystal based storyline, and throws FF standards right off the bat. It FEELS like a new FF.

On the gameplay side, I miss my BLM owning with Thunder spells (very odd choice to make Thunder line spells DoT ones) and I rather enjoyed the spell combo system from 1.23. However, I must complement SE on a very smooth experience this far in beta 3. Lag and log in waits have been next to 0.
 
I got my conjurer up to 15 last night and I loved it! I really love healing- always have. I started as a whm on FFXI and just kind of fell into brd in the end. I plan to level both jobs, but now I'm not sure whether I want to start working towards whm or brd first when open beta/early access comes around. My two biggest complaints so far are targeting in FATEs for healers (it's a mess) and the fact that you HAVE to have a full party to even enter a dungeon or guildhest.

That aside, I'm really enjoying the game and can't wait for phase 3 to finish so we can keep our character progress. I'm hoping I'll be able to join gaf when phase 4 comes around. I'm playing on Midgard at the moment because it's where my brothers had already started playing. I'm trying to convince them to go to Ultros for phase 4.
 
I got my conjurer up to 15 last night and I loved it! I really love healing- always have. I started as a whm on FFXI and just kind of fell into brd in the end. I plan to level both jobs, but now I'm not sure whether I want to start working towards whm or brd first when open beta/early access comes around. My two biggest complaints so far are targeting in FATEs for healers (it's a mess) and the fact that you HAVE to have a full party to even enter a dungeon or guildhest.

That aside, I'm really enjoying the game and can't wait for phase 3 to finish so we can keep our character progress. I'm hoping I'll be able to join gaf when phase 4 comes around. I'm playing on Midgard at the moment because it's where my brothers had already started playing. I'm trying to convince them to go to Ultros for phase 4.

The duty finder is released next weekend will help with this. It matches players for instanced content cross-server. Yoshi also said sometime after launch they'll let you go into lower level content without a full group.
 
Yoshi also said sometime after launch they'll let you go into lower level content without a full group.

Oh, that's good to know! Finding a full party isn't really a problem, but I really like trying to low man/solo things even if I die a painful death. Knowing that will be a possibility in the future makes me happy.
 
And he explained why very well.
When you take out player agency in damage inpuyt/output, and give authority to bare numbers, it is easier to balance content out.
You just need to deal with numbers after all, players' skill can be removed out of the equation.

That's a poor argument. We may as well play table D&D if we just want this game to be RNG number based.

FF14 really shouldn't be mimicing TERA or GW2 anyway, since it's obviously way too late to change their design that drastically. However, even WoW in 2004 had a number of movement, reactive, and utility skills, along with a 1.5 second cooldown. Where are the spell interrupts, blocks, aura/aspect juggling, traps, charges, blinks, feign death, CC/root breaks, etc.? You can still add a dodge roll in this game without suddenly making it action oriented (the dodge roll doesn't have to include invulnerability frames like GW2).

Just as an example from the classes I've played: Pugilists have so many positional abilities, but not a single skill like a Rogue's Gouge to make use of them when solo. Why not give them a short incapacitate at an early level, that also has them animatedly flip over their opponent for a backstab?

For casters, simple changes to spell cast time or function can make the combat more fluid for them, such as making Blizzard II instant and Thunder a 1.5 second cast. Changing Stone to a 3 second channelled spell that does damage each second, would give the Conjurer an option to cut it short to cast a heal, without losing all the damage. It would also be fitting for them to get a root spell. To add more depth to their gameplay, each of the elements (wind, water, earth) can have various combo effects on rooted targets.

For self-buffs, what's more interesting: A 15% evasion buff for 10 seconds on a 90 second cooldown, or a 60% evasion buff for 5 seconds on a 120 second cooldown. The latter provides more player agency, while the former is a barely noticeable buff.

It's these little tweaks to the combat that can really improve it. They don't need to tear it down. But as is, the combat can get very stale and boring.
 
The duty finder is released next weekend will help with this. It matches players for instanced content cross-server. Yoshi also said sometime after launch they'll let you go into lower level content without a full group.

I find this worrying. Partying up with people who are on a different server makes WoW groups really formal, contractual, unsocial affairs. Or it did the last time I played.
 
Is the starting town by different jobs going to be same in the final version?

kind of weird that one town is only for Marauder, while Granadia gets lots of jobs.
 
Has anyone messed with trying to get SLI to work? I know its supposed to be officially supported later, but wondered if anyone has any settings that work yet.
 
Just got to Lv15.
Map is still the only thing giving me trouble.
loving this, though its sad that I might not be able to buy/play it with PS4 coming out.

Why is that an issue? You can always play it later, or even on PS4 as already mentioned.

There's no true deadline for playing games unless they get discontinued, and even then the internet is able to preserve those games.
 
Can someone invite me to the GAF clan or whatever? I'm on Ultros. I don't know how to join. What is /tell? I'm on PS3.

Ytwokev Bug

I can't but the members that can add you is in the OP.

/tell is to send private message to people

Type in the chatbox: /tell "name of the guy" (without ") and then what you want to say.

where can i find my screenshot?

Documents > My Games > FF XIV > screenshots
 
That's a poor argument. We may as well play table D&D if we just want this game to be RNG number based.

FF14 really shouldn't be mimicing TERA or GW2 anyway, since it's obviously way too late to change their design that drastically. However, even WoW in 2004 had a number of movement, reactive, and utility skills, along with a 1.5 second cooldown. Where are the spell interrupts, blocks, aura/aspect juggling, traps, charges, blinks, feign death, CC/root breaks, etc.? You can still add a dodge roll in this game without suddenly making it action oriented (the dodge roll doesn't have to include invulnerability frames like GW2).

Just as an example from the classes I've played: Pugilists have so many positional abilities, but not a single skill like a Rogue's Gouge to make use of them when solo. Why not give them a short incapacitate at an early level, that also has them animatedly flip over their opponent for a backstab?

For casters, simple changes to spell cast time or function can make the combat more fluid for them, such as making Blizzard II instant and Thunder a 1.5 second cast. Changing Stone to a 3 second channelled spell that does damage each second, would give the Conjurer an option to cut it short to cast a heal, without losing all the damage. It would also be fitting for them to get a root spell. To add more depth to their gameplay, each of the elements (wind, water, earth) can have various combo effects on rooted targets.

For self-buffs, what's more interesting: A 15% evasion buff for 10 seconds on a 90 second cooldown, or a 60% evasion buff for 5 seconds on a 120 second cooldown. The latter provides more player agency, while the former is a barely noticeable buff.

It's these little tweaks to the combat that can really improve it. They don't need to tear it down. But as is, the combat can get very stale and boring.

I try telling people this, but all I ever get is "lol wow sux and is for casual babies". Game had better combat fresh out the gate 10 years ago then this has now. Every class had reactive skills and abilities that made you feel like you made a difference when they were used, not just a handful of attacks and a number of small buffs that every class has.

Also, for the record, I don't like the positional attacks in this game. Making attacks need different positions just for the sake of making you run around doesn't make the combat fun.
 
That's a poor argument. We may as well play table D&D if we just want this game to be RNG number based.

FF14 really shouldn't be mimicing TERA or GW2 anyway, since it's obviously way too late to change their design that drastically. However, even WoW in 2004 had a number of movement, reactive, and utility skills, along with a 1.5 second cooldown. Where are the spell interrupts, blocks, aura/aspect juggling, traps, charges, blinks, feign death, CC/root breaks, etc.? You can still add a dodge roll in this game without suddenly making it action oriented (the dodge roll doesn't have to include invulnerability frames like GW2).

Just as an example from the classes I've played: Pugilists have so many positional abilities, but not a single skill like a Rogue's Gouge to make use of them when solo. Why not give them a short incapacitate at an early level, that also has them animatedly flip over their opponent for a backstab?

For casters, simple changes to spell cast time or function can make the combat more fluid for them, such as making Blizzard II instant and Thunder a 1.5 second cast. Changing Stone to a 3 second channelled spell that does damage each second, would give the Conjurer an option to cut it short to cast a heal, without losing all the damage. It would also be fitting for them to get a root spell. To add more depth to their gameplay, each of the elements (wind, water, earth) can have various combo effects on rooted targets.

For self-buffs, what's more interesting: A 15% evasion buff for 10 seconds on a 90 second cooldown, or a 60% evasion buff for 5 seconds on a 120 second cooldown. The latter provides more player agency, while the former is a barely noticeable buff.

It's these little tweaks to the combat that can really improve it. They don't need to tear it down. But as is, the combat can get very stale and boring.

There's spell/attack interrupts...

Again you're judging the battle system without knowing the full picture.

1.23 was argueably as basic and had really fun fights.
 
I played WoW since Vanilla, and I'm not disliking what I'm seeing necessarily.


Combat is very simple, yes. It's also very early level. I did a group at lv18 and we almost wiped because someone missed an interrupt and I tipped over(got one shot as a healer).


I will say the mix/matching of abilities with classes is both neat, but can be a negative as a class may not feel "complete" because it has to be balanced around what other skills you can grab elsewhere. Seems like a balance nightmare, which is why classes feel really simple at first.
 
I'm trying out Archer w/ my old character on Sargatnas so I'm in Gridania. Any tips for Archer, should I be running away from the mob? I tried that earlier but eventually the mov became invincible before running back to its starting spot.
 
Taken from the FFXIV reddit, poster ignistello
It seems after you have finished your company quest(~level 20), you can instant level 15 by talking to these NPCs as the correct class.
Swaenhylt in Camp Drybone(Eastern Thanalan) for Thaumaturge
Wihtred in Hyrstmill(North Shroud) for Conjurer
Aniud in Hawthorne Hut(East Shroud) above the town for Lancer
Chechezan in Horizon Camp(Western Thanalan) for Gladiator
Zacheus in Little Solace (East Shroud) for Archer
Urswyrst in Moraby Drydocks(Lower Noscea) outside gate near Chocobo Porter for Marauder
Adelard at the South Hammer(Western Thanalan)(20,27) for Pugilist
 
Are any of the LS/Guild leaders on Ultros right now? I tried sending /tells last night but couldn't catch anyone. My guy is Velmont Seloan roaming around Gridania at the moment.
 
God this game is fuuuuun. I just hit level 10. I feel a bit gimped on PS3 without the keyboard and mouse but it's still fun.

What's the difference between a linkshell and a grand company?
 
Does anyone know where this Bodwine guy is around Gridania? Supposed to be around some chocobo stable for a quest.

Also, is anyone online for the LS? I am lost lol.
 
Question about gear diversity.

Does everyone look the exact same at end game? Just like vanilla wow everyone who raided all had the same gear and I hated that. At least armor dye would help a bit.
 
How do I get an invite to the GAF party? I'm a Level 10 Gladiator in Ultros, and playing by myself is making an already un-enjoyable grind even more un-enjoyable.

Also, how do you communicate with people in this game? I've ran into various GAF members online, but every time I type something, it just gets lost in a sea of public text. I don't know if this game supports headset chats, but it hasn't worked so far...

EDIT: Even as a beta, this game needs a true manual. It's easy to get confused in this type of game...
 
Question about gear diversity.

Does everyone look the exact same at end game? Just like vanilla wow everyone who raided all had the same gear and I hated that. At least armor dye would help a bit.

Yes and no I mean there is obviously high end gear sets you want but with the materia system there is alot of room to mix and match if you wanted.

EDIT: Even as a beta, this game needs a true manual. It's easy to get confused in this type of game...

Instruction manual is on the beta forums

http://forum.square-enix.com/ARR-Test/forums/197-Instruction-Manual

Some new screens
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