Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Beta Phase 3 Impression: Phase 4 August
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Boss Man
Member
Were all of these dungeons in the beta? Looking a lot more complicated than what I played (first one/Satasha). I guess it's Copperbell Mines(?) that I'm looking at as the first one that seems more interesting. The last one looks fantastic, it's giving me a Dangruf Wadi vibe and looks like it might actually be pretty open. Did (or could) anyone play that one yet?
I wish they'd get some captions for the Live Letter that came out today...
Yes, all of these were in Phase 3.
They definitely do ramp up in interest and complexity. Makes me hopeful for the higher level dungeons.
LowParry
Member
Yeah. All those were in the beta. If people want to go into the game fresh, I wouldn't watch that video. It pretty much shows the intro and boss intros to those instances.
Xux
Member
Brayflox' Longstop. It does have a beginning and end like the other instances. Doesn't seem as mindbogglingly complex as Dangruf Wadi, though.
No. Unless you count the option of pre-ordering ARR, lol.
Xux
Member
Yes they do.
theSlacker
Member
And I get really annoyed when people try to use anecdotal evidence to defend bad game design. Tell me, have you been in an area in the game where you couldn't see the edge of where you can travel to? Where you cannot "see" an invisible wall, or the edge of your available game world? Parts of Southern Thanalan might come close. I'd give about two to 3 minutes max to travel across most zones, and you will always come across several choke points where you will have no choice but to follow the guided path. Want to jump off the highbridge and follow the water source? Nope. Because the playable gameworld isn't an actually representation of the world of the game. You can look at all the pretty areas from inside your glass dome though.
Also, I am sorry I misinterpreted you. I misread what you said and made a quick post with thoughts from the top of my head, and I'm sorry for that. As I said, if it doesn't bother you that is fine. Good for you. I wish it wasn't painfully obvious every second I am playing the game as well. The quality of the gameworld and the direct control over your playable character just happen to be the two most important things for me in a mmorpg, and I have been spoiled by games that were better in the first regard.
devious.one
Member
So, from reading your past two post I'm a little confused. Is it a necessary limitation to the game design that you understand or is it bad game design that is ruining the game for you considering it's the two most important things in a MMO for you?
And if the later is true, why even force yourself to play a game you clearly aren't too happy with. At this stage of Beta and so close to release, you and I both know there is a 0% chance this will change.
And if the later is true, why even force yourself to play a game you clearly aren't too happy with. At this stage of Beta and so close to release, you and I both know there is a 0% chance this will change.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Brayflox was the first dungeon I really loved because of that. It's nice because it doesn't feel all claustrophobic as the earlier indoor dungeons and it looks gorgeous. It's also got some neat things to do like protecting Gobbies to get bonus loot. It's still got a set start and end path like any dungeon but it felt more open and dynamic due to the design. I hope most of the higher level dungeons are like that.
theSlacker
Member
It is a necessary limitation to the game design that while I understand, but am not happy with, but am willing to give the rest of the game more of a chance before thumbing my nose at it completely. Also player control is tight and responsive enough now to not be noticeable even if there is some latency problems. It isn't the game as a whole that I am unhappy with, even if my constant shitty attitude gives that impression. Pointing out and making a big deal about things that I think are subpar and a big deal to this genre of games doesn't mean that I hate the game fully. The only reason why I even mention these things is because I'm interested enough in the game to care about it.
The last few responses were originally responding to the downplaying of what I see as a major negative effects that ps3 development have on the game. The limited environment. Wasn't meaning to be harsh, just making the point that even if the only effect ps3 had on the game was the limited environment that is in itself a big deal, that will become more and more noticeable in the coming years when more and more MMORPGS come out.
Okay, first off.
"I," don't notice these things the same way, because for consoles, this is the norm. In an environment where you cannot count on the presence of a HDD, and you have very limited system RAM, worlds are broken up by loading screens. For a game that's expecting roughly half of its user base to come from consoles, its inevitable, and therefore I don't even think about it.
Besides, its not as if these environments are actually small, or even unrealistic, fantasy creatures and traits aside. In real environments, impassible obstacles are the norm, not the exception. Unless you're in a grassland, any game that depicts a world that can be easily traversed without significant obstacles, is lying through its teeth.
As for longevity, first, this assumes that XIV is going to be able to hold onto a sizable number of players, in a pay2play MMO, for several years. If they manage this, mission flipping accomplished.
More importantly, I wouldn't count on every future platform appearing on the PS3. I know every XI platform appeared on the PS2, but the PS2 had a much larger install base, and especially in Japan it was the only place to play the game for years. I wouldn't expect PS3 exclusive XIV players to hold on nearly as long as PS2 exclusive XI players.
So it is possible that future expansions may open up a little. Heck, it might be possible even IF PS3 users hold up. It'd be a little clumsy, but I could think of a few ways to potentially open things up a little, despite the memory limits.
"I," don't notice these things the same way, because for consoles, this is the norm. In an environment where you cannot count on the presence of a HDD, and you have very limited system RAM, worlds are broken up by loading screens. For a game that's expecting roughly half of its user base to come from consoles, its inevitable, and therefore I don't even think about it.
Besides, its not as if these environments are actually small, or even unrealistic, fantasy creatures and traits aside. In real environments, impassible obstacles are the norm, not the exception. Unless you're in a grassland, any game that depicts a world that can be easily traversed without significant obstacles, is lying through its teeth.
As for longevity, first, this assumes that XIV is going to be able to hold onto a sizable number of players, in a pay2play MMO, for several years. If they manage this, mission flipping accomplished.
More importantly, I wouldn't count on every future platform appearing on the PS3. I know every XI platform appeared on the PS2, but the PS2 had a much larger install base, and especially in Japan it was the only place to play the game for years. I wouldn't expect PS3 exclusive XIV players to hold on nearly as long as PS2 exclusive XI players.
So it is possible that future expansions may open up a little. Heck, it might be possible even IF PS3 users hold up. It'd be a little clumsy, but I could think of a few ways to potentially open things up a little, despite the memory limits.
theSlacker
Member
This is why I asked you if you played mmorpgs often, not as an insult, but because you seem to be comparing this to console and single player games, where the world would be fine, not the living gameworlds of mmorpgs. The fact that you think I am complaining about actual impassable objects, such as trees or cliffs and mountains, shows just how much you don't notice about the lack of a full world and exploration. This is something that I wish I also didn't have to notice so I'm really not going to go out of my way anymore to try to and have you see a point of view that may lower your enjoyment of the game.
It is objectively detrimental to the game already even if at the start they end up selling more copies because of it. Just in ways that people are willing to overlook because of the situation of the game. If this came out in the middle or start of the PS3's life cycle then it may not be as big of an issue, because you would have years of the system still being relevant and other games with the same limitations. The core functionality and game of a mmorpg needs to be made to last. It is their point. Going though a complete remake only to come out on the other side with the limitations of a system who's lifespan is nearing the end just seems like a really bad idea to me. The game may get the short term boost in having a large install base but for a mmorpg, especially a p2p mmorpg, you need to keep people involved over the long term. Can I hope that as WolvenOne suggested, they eventually abandon the ps3 for future content patches and updates? Damn right I can. I just don't think it is a realistic hope.
Got to remember that this isn't one man's rant on why FFXIV will fail and is a bad game, but the ongoing response to claims that the PS3 limitations, even if just affecting the environment size, isn't a small issue.
I got to Level 15, hopped on the airship, and promptly quit Phase 3. I had no interest in doing things I'd be forced to repeat.
That said, everything I read about ARR, the more hyped I get. Apparently Guildhests are awesome. Sweet dungeons. Materia. Advanced jobs. Choco-bros.
Awwwwwww yiss.
That said, everything I read about ARR, the more hyped I get. Apparently Guildhests are awesome. Sweet dungeons. Materia. Advanced jobs. Choco-bros.
Awwwwwww yiss.
You're coming to Sargatanas, right?
RagingSpaniard will be there, and we can bust heads together again, like in that thread.
Great video, but having seen all of those in the beta, I really want to see Pt. 2 now.
So you're saying the PS3 version is detrimental to the game because the PS3 install base will be small and the design limitations imposed will also cut the PC base as players leave for greener pastures, so to speak. I think my comment still stands, mate. Time will tell if it happens this way.
Proooooobably not because I don't want to play on a Legacy server. = (You're coming to Sargatanas, right?
RagingSpaniard will be there, and we can bust heads together again, like in that thread.
theSlacker
Member
No, not really what I was saying, but close. What I am saying is that even if there are a ton of people that play on the ps3 there will always be the design limitations imposed by having to forever design the game to run on the ps3. I do imply that these choices may cut into the longevity of the game, and the part you said about the PC/PS3 install base are also things that I believe, but those are just a personal assumption.
Basically my response to your previous post was making the claim that even if what they have decided pays off sales wise, the game itself suffered and will always be limited because of it.
Oh, you mean the game design viewed out of the context of sales performance or install base. Viewed that way, yeah, I agree. OTOH, I'm not bothered by it. I say that as an MMO vet of almost 10 years.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Come have fun with us on Ultros!
GasProblem
Member
Guess I'll try the beta one more time in August. If my performance is still horrible, I'll just have to forget this game exists for a while. I don't get it, I have a gtx 580 1.5gb and an i7 2600k 4.1 ghz but still get framedrops all over the place, even with things on medium and low. And yes, I have the latest drivers. The benchmark runs perfectly fine on high settings.
I think Legacy server concerns are really overblown, but do what you think you must.
Unknown Soldier
Member
Sounds like an overheating and throttling problem? Have you done the usual troubleshooting for that kind of thing?
We can still use Duty Finder together, right?!
= (
(Maybe Ultros will suck in Phase 4, I dunno)
GasProblem
Member
Haven't checked my temps while playing FFXIV yet. But I have while playing other games and they are fine. Ran 3dmark and my scores are fine.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
If you get lucky and randomly matched up with him you can :lol
Unknown Soldier
Member
An overheating problem will likely not show up from 1 run of 3DMark.
Now if you were to run Prime95 Stress Test (CPU) and MSI Kombustor (GPU) for awhile, then you would find any overheating problems in a hurry. Less than 15 minutes of each of those, or for maximum stress both at once, will tell all. If your computer can survive that, it's not an overheating problem and you can move on to other things like drivers, background tasks, viruses, etc.
I was having a similar problem when I got my 660TI last year. Although the performance was fine, the problem was that it'd overheat and shut down the card/drivers
I even sent it back to where I purchased it and they couldn't find a problem but I still having the problem after I got it back. I used MSI Afterburner to force the fans go at a higher speed if the temperature got too high, that prevented the card from shutting down. Funny enough, the card seems to have gotten used by itself overtime to the fans going faster (maybe the fans were dodgy at the beginning, and after a while I didn't have to use Afterburner again.
agentofatlas
Member
Looks good! Can't wait for phase 4!
FFXI even with "PS2 limitations" was by far the best MMORPG ever created.
So I don't mind "PS3 limitations". A wide open world and such things are indeed nice to have (rather than these separate zones). But it's not a deal breaker for me. FFXI had the most realised world in any MMORPG (faaaaar outdoing even WoW) and that was cut up in zones too.
There is more to world design than just technical limitations to me.
All this makes me wish they just did an Ivalice MMORPG instead of this new world of Eorzea (re-using FF11 monsters and races and stuff). There are already established races and a huge amount of jobs (Tactics games) they can pull from Ivalice and a deep storied world. They would be able to use all the nostalgia fan service they want and it would make sense. Hearing about the famous sky pirate Vaan would make sense in that world compared to Lightning being in 14... because.... "trust us it will make sense!" Final Fantasy Tactics, Advance, and A2 also have cameo appearances from other Final Fantasy titles so there is precedent there that is already accepted by that fan base.
And FF12 is cut up in zones so it would be consistent with that. Sell the game as a multiplayer FF12. People love that game.
So I don't mind "PS3 limitations". A wide open world and such things are indeed nice to have (rather than these separate zones). But it's not a deal breaker for me. FFXI had the most realised world in any MMORPG (faaaaar outdoing even WoW) and that was cut up in zones too.
There is more to world design than just technical limitations to me.
All this makes me wish they just did an Ivalice MMORPG instead of this new world of Eorzea (re-using FF11 monsters and races and stuff). There are already established races and a huge amount of jobs (Tactics games) they can pull from Ivalice and a deep storied world. They would be able to use all the nostalgia fan service they want and it would make sense. Hearing about the famous sky pirate Vaan would make sense in that world compared to Lightning being in 14... because.... "trust us it will make sense!" Final Fantasy Tactics, Advance, and A2 also have cameo appearances from other Final Fantasy titles so there is precedent there that is already accepted by that fan base.
And FF12 is cut up in zones so it would be consistent with that. Sell the game as a multiplayer FF12. People love that game.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
IMO, a true console-friendly MMO is worth the "PS2 Limitations" and "PS3 Limitations" we will eventually see with XIV.
Burn me at the stake if you must. I agree with Frequency. It's a compromise I'm willing to deal with for a really unique product and experience.
Burn me at the stake if you must. I agree with Frequency. It's a compromise I'm willing to deal with for a really unique product and experience.
I can hear them coming already... prepare your flame shield.
I love FFXI and it's my favourite MMORPG, but looking at it objectively, besides its graphics, music and story, it had so many flaws, but I still enjoyed it during 5 years.
You can be sure that Lightning would be in the game regardless if ARR was set in Ivalice or wherever.
I also love FFXII, my second favourite FF game. However for the story we would need Matsuno, secondly although I would say not as controversial as XIII, I don't think there are that many supporters of Ivalice that would want to play more of it on an MMO environment.
I'd rather get FFTA3 on 3DS to be honest.
How do you mean?
TripleSun
Member
Oh man the Titan just gets me all excited inside!
Dog food is delicious
Banned
I like the convenience of the PS3 version so much that I don't even bother playing it on my laptop (IQ just about the same).
Yes it had a lot of flaws, but the parts that are important to me are still unbeaten. The world and story was the most realised in anything before or after it. FFXI had actual memorable and wonderful characters. What other MMO can you say that about? Maybe WoW if you consider media outside of the game itself (books, older Warcraft games, etc)? Battle systems and technical aspects are all secondary to me.
But I think it would be a little more palatable. Final Fantasy Tactics had Cloud in it and no one really got angry about that.
I guess it's just wishful thinking on my part. I love Ivalice. FFTA3 would be awesome to have but I would take all the Ivalice I can get. MMO would be pretty great. A constant world I can enjoy for many many many years that would have constant updates.
I'm afraid for Ivalice. The last we saw of it was iOS games and that one canceled Western developed Final Fantasy...
SoraanTribal
Member
I really love how Titan looks - hopefully it's a fun battle! I wonder what level the 4-man story version will be. Maybe 30? I'm curious on how hard it will be to get the relic weapons as well... Hopefully it won't be as grindy or require large amounts of money as they were in FFXI. I want it to be challenging, but more skill-based than just collecting a lot of items repeatedly.
I never tried to get one in 1.0, so I don't know how hard it was really.
I never tried to get one in 1.0, so I don't know how hard it was really.
I don't regard WoW or Warcraft on any way at all, or nothing that comes from Blizzard to be honest.
But you should remember that these are games before anything else, and the battle system and other technical aspects are just as important as the story, graphics or music. If you take the gameplay out of the equation then it ends up being just a movie, etc.
It's your opinion I know, but you can just not downplay the importance of the gameplay on a game.
I was about to ask you that, it was grindy (Hamlet and spiritbond), it was expensive (getting the double meld base weapon), it was hard at certain points (getting used to the speed-runs and Ifrit Xtreme), but overall it was so much easier than getting one in FFXI, like night and day.
Yoshida already said that the relic quest will be easier in ARR compared to what it was on 1.2, I mean just getting rid of the lag, hamlet and speedruns the difficulty drops immensely.
However these relics will be upgraded accordingly to new content, level cap raise, so there will be more quests down the road to upgrade them and hopefully will be challenging and not in an Ifrit Xtreme kind of way where you didn't have to fight just Ifrit but also the shitty game engine and server netcode.
I don't mean to downplay them. They are just secondary. That is to mean if you create a world that I love enough, I can overlook gameplay that is a little less to my liking.
In fact, I would say that about FF14 right now. I don't like the battle system at all. I have spoken about it in both this and the community thread I think. But I am willing to overlook that if they can give me a better world than the competition. I also acknowledge that technically speaking, FF14 is actually one of the more poorly implemented MMOs with oddities and quirks that even the most basic free MMOs with way less development time and money solved years ago.
FF11 is a case where the parts that I liked were so good, I overlooked the bad in it. There currently exist a ton of MMOs on the market. Some of them I actually enjoy the combat but I stopped playing because the world was just boring and lifeless. A "theme park" I guess is the common phrase. I look for more than that in my MMOs.
I... ok, at least you can overlook such a poorly implemented MMO thanks to the world and story. If the game played so bad as it did back at 1.0 launch I wouldn't play it, and that was what I did, I stopped playing 1.0 for 7-8 months until it was playable and the combat ahd be redone for the first time.
SoraanTribal
Member
Ah well, I'm happy to hear they are getting rid of some of the more annoying things about getting a relic. I really hope those kind of speed runs where you avoid every single enemy in the dungeon except the bosses never comes back. That annoyed me so much about some of the dungeons in 1.0 and is part of the reason why I quit so early. Just running past everything and only doing the bosses wasn't fun to me.
And yeah, I do hope they fix up the netcode a little bit. There was definitely some lag on some of those AOEs/circles you had to avoid on the ground. That will just make the end-game super frustrating if it remains like it is now (imo, anyways). I know some people didn't experience any problems, but a large number of people did.
ARR is a massive improvement over 1.0.
It's still way behind the competition.
Simple things like being able to interact with NPCs and objects while mounted. Or stuff like having to go through that weird quest item selection thing to turn in quests. Or the absolutely horrid implementation of an auction house. Or the weird retainer system and super limited armoire to handle banking and storage. Or the inability to see quest locations on the map outside of your immediate area. Or the lack of responsiveness/"lag". The list goes on and on and on about all the things that this game implements in a way worse way than the competition has.
But I overlook it because I enjoy "living" in Yoshida's Eorzea so far.
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