Final Fantasy XV Gamescom Active Time Report - CNN reporting live from disaster scene

wmlk said:
I think putting fantasy-like armour and sword beside that car perfectly depicted the contrast between fantasy and reality.

Whether you like how he looks or not is another matter altogether. For the themes of this game, I think it portrayed that nicely.
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I feel it requires more balance. Fantasy card is often used with this franchise as an excuse to just do whatever illogical ideas come into designers' heads, but then you start thinking about things and it's just like "huh?" For example, the reason we use guns instead of swords is because projectile weapons have superior range and even lethal power. In Star Wars, swords allow Jedi to essentially block projectile weapons so it makes sense for them to wield one, but even there swords were used as an allegory for an old, more graceful age of knighthood (until Lucas fucked it up anyway). Why are the swords in such a wide use here? Well, in one of the trailers we saw Noctis defend himself from a machinegun assault with his sword magic. That makes sense. But then why are they all wearing armor? The idea that the same culture that can produce better aircrafts that we have now but still somehow utilizes heavy plate armor is nonsense, fantasy or not. Some kind of cultural divide in which one country is just so technologically superior the other is stuck in middle age could work, but that's not what's on display here, here it's just all mixed and mashed together and you have a kid in modern Tokyo subculture fashion wear next to a guy in ceremonial armor because...? What is this blend meant to express? Furthermore the main characters do not wear any armor, old or modern, into fights, so it just all looks like juvenile bullshit.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
I think it would depend on if those cut scenes are real time or pre rendered.
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The will probably be real time like you said to have more space, just look at MGS5.

That game would probably be 50 gigs or over if it had pre-rendered.

Thats probably also why dual audio will probably be dlc.
 
Frumix said:
I feel it requires more balance. Fantasy card is often used with this franchise as an excuse to just do whatever illogical ideas come into designers' heads, but then you start thinking about things and it's just like "huh?" For example, the reason we use guns instead of swords is because projectile weapons have superior range and even lethal power. In Star Wars, swords allow Jedi to essentially block projectile weapons so it makes sense for them to wield one, but even there swords were used as an allegory for an old, more graceful age of knighthood (until Lucas fucked it up anyway). Why are the swords in such a wide use here? Well, in one of the trailers we saw Noctis defend himself from a machinegun assault with his sword magic. That makes sense. But then why are they all wearing armor? The idea that the same culture that can produce better aircrafts that we have now but still somehow utilizes heavy plate armor is nonsense, fantasy or not. Some kind of cultural divide in which one country is just so technologically superior the other is stuck in middle age could work, but that's not what's on display here, here it's just all mixed and mashed together and you have a kid in modern Tokyo subculture fashion wear next to a guy in ceremonial armor because...? What is this blend meant to express? Furthermore the main characters do not wear any armor, old or modern, into fights, so it just all looks like juvenile bullshit.
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At the end of the day its a fantasy game and the fantasy card will always win.
As long as the world building establishes a good and consistent reason... Its really a fools errand to try amd impose logic in a fantasy setting.
 
I'm actually afraid to look at any media of this game for worry that they'll cut it out or replace it again and again.

I mean, is anything left of the original idea? Aside from Noctis looking like Sasuke?
 
Frumix said:
I feel it requires more balance. Fantasy card is often used with this franchise as an excuse to just do whatever illogical ideas come into designers' heads, but then you start thinking about things and it's just like "huh?" For example, the reason we use guns instead of swords is because projectile weapons have superior range and even lethal power. In Star Wars, swords allow Jedi to essentially block projectile weapons so it makes sense for them to wield one, but even there swords were used as an allegory for an old, more graceful age of knighthood (until Lucas fucked it up anyway). Why are the swords in such a wide use here? Well, in one of the trailers we saw Noctis defend himself from a machinegun assault with his sword magic. That makes sense. But then why are they all wearing armor? The idea that the same culture that can produce better aircrafts that we have now but still somehow utilizes heavy plate armor is nonsense, fantasy or not. Some kind of cultural divide in which one country is just so technologically superior the other is stuck in middle age could work, but that's not what's on display here, here it's just all mixed and mashed together and you have a kid in modern Tokyo subculture fashion wear next to a guy in ceremonial armor because...? What is this blend meant to express?
Click to expand...

Someone here brought it up before. Plates and armour are used in combat to shield against sword strikes and reduce them into brute force melee strikes. Whereas the guys in Lucis can use magic to deflect those bullets.

It's definitely weird. It's like having an airship in past FFs but being stuck in swords and sorcery. I just feel like with the rich lore and the ancient history that this game presents (just like past FFs), these things work the way they do because of logic within only that universe. I don't think it always makes sense to apply real world logic to fiction, especially when that work of fiction gives an explanation to why the technology evolved the way it did. Things may seem illogical but they aren't illogical within that fantasy world.
 
Verger said:
I'm actually afraid to look at any media of this game for worry that they'll cut it out or replace it again and again.

I mean, is anything left of the original idea? Aside from Noctis looking like Sasuke?
Click to expand...

It's still a game about brotherhood with a motif that's a cross between a road trip movie and a Shakespearean tragedy.
 
Verger said:
I'm actually afraid to look at any media of this game for worry that they'll cut it out or replace it again and again.

I mean, is anything left of the original idea? Aside from Noctis looking like Sasuke?
Click to expand...

A fair amount things presented from 2006-2013 have remained in the game. Including locations, art style, themes, villains, sub characters and key elements of the plot.
 
Kagari said:
This game has always considered itself a modern fantasy with the modern part right at the front of everything.
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I dont think modern is the word you are looking for. Only the kingdom of lucis has a modern feel. The province of tenebre has cars from the sixties and armor clad goons that wield tommy guns. Thats falls under the category of "fantasy based in reality" not "fantasy based on modernity"
 
wmlk said:
Someone here brought it up before. Plates and armour are used in combat to shield against sword strikes and reduce them into brute force melee strikes. Whereas the guys in Lucis can use magic to deflect those bullets.

It's definitely weird. It's like having an airship in past FFs but being stuck in swords and sorcery. I just feel like with the rich lore and the ancient history that this game presents (just like past FFs), these things work the way they do because of logic within only that universe. I don't think it always makes sense to apply real world logic to fiction, especially when that work of fiction gives an explanation to why the technology evolved the way it did. Things may seem illogical but they aren't illogical within that fantasy world.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, they are illogical within that fantasy world. The more your setting is removed from what audience is familiar with the more you have to work on justification and exposition. Final Fantasy isn't exactly known for bothering itself with such trivialities as internal consistency.
 
Frumix said:
That's the thing, they are illogical within that fantasy world. The more your setting is removed from what audience is familiar with the more you have to work on justification and exposition. Final Fantasy isn't exactly known for bothering itself with such trivialities as internal consistency.
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Its funny that u say this because ffXV is throwing that out the window. If you take eidolons for example... Tabata said that there is an explanation for them in this game in order to keep the world consistent, unlike past final fantasy that threw in eidolons just for combat purposes.
 
Damerman said:
Its funny that u say this because ffXV is throwing that out the window. If you take eidolons for example... Tabata said that there is an explanation for them in this game in order to keep the world consistent, unlike past final fantasy that threw in eidolons just for combat purposes.
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Final Fantasy X? XII? lol
 
Frumix said:
That's the thing, they are illogical within that fantasy world. The more your setting is removed from what audience is familiar with the more you have to work on justification and exposition. Final Fantasy isn't exactly known for bothering itself with such trivialities as internal consistency.
Click to expand...

If it were illogical to that universe then I think that universe itself would fall apart. Like, if you look at Cocoon and Pulse, gravitational forces should not work the way it does with those two spherical bodies of mass. Within that game's canon there simply has to be a justification of these things, even if it's not explained in the story of the game.

As long as the universe has proper worldbuilding and gives good context for why things exists the way they do, then I'm fine to be honest. The fantasy vs. reality aspect of the game since 2006 was always weird, and it seems illogical within that universe, but with how I view things it simply can't be. I'm fine with leaving things to imagination than the writers explaining the history in incredible detail, especially when Nomura conceptualized that world without taking into consideration these details.
 
Frumix said:
That's the thing, they are illogical within that fantasy world. The more your setting is removed from what audience is familiar with the more you have to work on justification and exposition. Final Fantasy isn't exactly known for bothering itself with such trivialities as internal consistency.
Click to expand...
Right. So why is that a problem now when it has happened in every game of this very popular series? I don't think the actual audience cares as much as your hypothetical one does. As long as it feels consistent, that's all that matters. Storytelling is artifice.
 
I like to think of FFXV as a story. Its existence is a work of fiction. There is no release because it can't ever live up to what we imaged it to be. And in that sense, it is the greatest game ever.
 
Kagari said:
Final Fantasy X? XII? lol
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Even final fantasy ix(alexander showed up in a few cutscenes) and iv(there was a separate world for eidolons) to a certain extent. But they never really played a huge role in the consistency of the world. From the interview, tabata made it clear that they will play a bigger role in the narrative than they ever have in past final fantasy games.
 
Damerman said:
Even final fantasy ix(alexander showed up in a few cutscenes) and iv(there was a separate world for eidolons) to a certain extent. But they never really played a huge role in the consistency of the world. From the interview, tabata made it clear that they will play a bigger role in the narrative than they ever have in past final fantasy games.
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I will be very surprised if they will be as entwined in to the story as they were in X.

Not much has hinted at that so far.
 
M_Night said:
I will be very surprised if they will be as entwined in to the story as they were in X.

Not much has hinted at that so far.
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Well the leviathan setpiece from E3 '13 trailer, granted we don't know if it will be in the final game. Not to mention people are speculating that luna's greatest bargaining chip to help her dire situation is the fact that she can summon leviathan.
 
Damerman said:
Even final fantasy ix(alexander showed up in a few cutscenes) and iv(there was a separate world for eidolons) to a certain extent. But they never really played a huge role in the consistency of the world. From the interview, tabata made it clear that they will play a bigger role in the narrative than they ever have in past final fantasy games.
Click to expand...

In FF14 they're extremely important.
 
Damerman said:
Its funny that u say this because ffXV is throwing that out the window. If you take eidolons for example... Tabata said that there is an explanation for them in this game in order to keep the world consistent, unlike past final fantasy that threw in eidolons just for combat purposes.
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about the summons though.

wmlk said:
If it were illogical to that universe then I think that universe itself would fall apart. Like, if you look at Cocoon and Pulse, gravitational forces should not work the way it does with those two spherical bodies of mass. Within that game's canon there simply has to be a justification of these things, even if it's not explained in the story of the game.

As long as the universe has proper worldbuilding and gives good context for why things exists the way they do, then I'm fine to be honest. The fantasy vs. reality aspect of the game since 2006 was always weird, and it seems illogical within that universe, but with how I view things it simply can't be. I'm fine with leaving things to imagination than the writers explaining the history in incredible detail, especially when Nomura conceptualized that world without taking into consideration these details.
Click to expand...

There is an explanation of Cocoon in the game.

There may be a consistency in the setting. Maybe it's explained in the game somewhere. Maybe we just don't know.
But just right now what is an unaware person looking at the trailer supposed to think.
"Why is this guy wearing an armor and a sword? That doesn't look like comfortable to be getting into the car."
or
"These kids are gonna get their brand T-shirts torn to pieces by angry dinosaurs. That'd be a shame."

It's hard to take seriously.

.JayZii said:
Right. So why is that a problem now when it has happened in every game of this very popular series? I don't think the actual audience cares as much as your hypothetical one does. As long as it feels consistent, that's all that matters. Storytelling is artifice.
Click to expand...

It was a problem before it is a problem now. FF13 was super dumb with some of its ideas, don't people dislike that setting?
 
Frumix said:
I feel it requires more balance. Fantasy card is often used with this franchise as an excuse to just do whatever illogical ideas come into designers' heads, but then you start thinking about things and it's just like "huh?" For example, the reason we use guns instead of swords is because projectile weapons have superior range and even lethal power. In Star Wars, swords allow Jedi to essentially block projectile weapons so it makes sense for them to wield one, but even there swords were used as an allegory for an old, more graceful age of knighthood (until Lucas fucked it up anyway). Why are the swords in such a wide use here? Well, in one of the trailers we saw Noctis defend himself from a machinegun assault with his sword magic. That makes sense. But then why are they all wearing armor? The idea that the same culture that can produce better aircrafts that we have now but still somehow utilizes heavy plate armor is nonsense, fantasy or not. Some kind of cultural divide in which one country is just so technologically superior the other is stuck in middle age could work, but that's not what's on display here, here it's just all mixed and mashed together and you have a kid in modern Tokyo subculture fashion wear next to a guy in ceremonial armor because...? What is this blend meant to express? Furthermore the main characters do not wear any armor, old or modern, into fights, so it just all looks like juvenile bullshit.
Click to expand...
I agree with this.

"Fantasy" should not be a cart-blanche card to have no grounded foundation of design and framework in your world. But this isn't really new in JRPG's. You often get the sterotypical antagonistic "Evil Empire" that always is more technologically advanced than everyone else.

It'd be nice if they bothered putting in some context as to why said empire is so much more advanced than everyone else. But often it's just dropped in there to pass off the theme of the shadowy empire going "against nature" and such.

I always felt that FFIX had a great style because there was not much out-of-place "high tech" in it aside from the Alien world, and that most of the technology utilized in the world was heavily industrial and "steampunk" and you could find it in most regions of the land to varying degrees of sophistication. This world, even though it was really "Fantasy" still felt more cohesive stylistically than I've seen from the FFXIII series and now FF XV.

But then again as far as characters go it's been hard for me to like Nomura's designs lately because they almost all have some heavy focus on "Japanese fashion" sensibilities despite whether they fit in or not.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
Eidolon. Didn't even know what that was until I googled it. FF13 was confusing as hell with all these names.
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Well it's not like it's a made-up word. At least you expanded your vocabulary.
Frumix said:
It was a problem before it is a problem now. FF13 was super dumb with some of its ideas, don't people dislike that setting?
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XIII didn't feel consistent because the character motivations were vague and unconvincing and the world they traveled through felt extremely disjointed and lacked cohesion. XV could turn out the same way, but from what I've seen so far, it looks like a more thoughtfully realized world than XIII's. Of course, we'll have to wait and see.
 
Damerman said:
Are we talking about his phenotypes or are we talking about the art direction?
Click to expand...
What's your distinction between the two? I don't think they tried to make him "more white" or anything like that, but there does seem to be a change to make him more "European fantasy king"-ly.

New Regis, 15 Years Ago:
final-fantasy-xv-dawn-trailer-0.jpg
Click to expand...
Old Regis, ~10-15 Years Ago:
Young_Regis.png
Click to expand...
Old Regis, "Modern Day":
Final_Fantasy_xv.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Ray Down said:
It doesn't help that between game they chnage names.

Eidolons, Espers, Summon, GF, Aeon, Primals (XIV).

And now in FFXV there Archaeans.
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Well they do that on purpose. It's pretty much a tradition to invent a new name for the summons in English localizations of mainline FFs. Only IX and XII reuse old names (respectively Eidolon and Esper), presumably as a homage to entries they have a lot of common with (IV and VI).
 
Damerman said:
But they never really played a huge role in the consistency of the world. From the interview, tabata made it clear that they will play a bigger role in the narrative than they ever have in past final fantasy games.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not like Final Fantasy VI, X, XII, XIII and XIV ever happened...
 
It would of been cool to see Old (young) Regis shed a tear. The new one looks like a hobo who's on the verge of tears any second.
 
I wish they could do another game like FFVI where the Esper's/Eidolon's were big parts of the story and each monster had their own personality.

Now they've lately just been "cool" window dressing and not much else :(
 
The reason that lil' Noctis shoves his father's face away in the Dawn trailer is because even he wants the old Regis design back.

The kid knows his quality.
 
Damerman said:
It doesn't look like armor... It looks like a large coat with metallic shoulder pads.

It even looks like a wizard's battle cloathing almost.
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Yeah, it's not armor, and looks more like a kind of cloak. He still has the same pin-striped suit he's seen to be wearing in older trailers underneath.

Kagari said:
This game has always considered itself a modern fantasy with the modern part right at the front of everything.
Click to expand...

A FANTASY based on REALITY. Fantasy first. Gotta remember, though it might be inspired by certain aspects of our contemporary setting, it's still it's own world that has evolved differently than our own. Customs are different, no doubt. Hell, maybe they'll actually explain some of these customs within the actual game(unlike FFXIII). I would only think FFXV's world would be like one that evolved along side magic, mystical creatures and god-like entities to be one that, despite being "contemporary" is still vastly different than our own world. It only makes sense.
 
DiipuSurotu said:
Well they do that on purpose. It's pretty much a tradition to invent a new name for the summons in English localizations of mainline FFs. Only IX and XII reuse old names (respectively Eidolon and Esper), presumably as a homage to entries they have a lot of common with (IV and VI).
Click to expand...

FF XIII also calls them Eidolons
 
Verger said:
I'll believe it when I see it. Tabata's been saying a lot of things...
Click to expand...

Well he's hinting at Summons being real being with real ties to the world.
And that Noctis has to win their favors.
I don't know if they'll talk, or have proper personalities, but making them really part of the lore would be very very cool.

Actually lore is an element i hope they go really in depth, since the world has a lot of potential. Nojima wrote it, i hope they didn't change it much.
 
Perfect Cha0s said:
What's your distinction between the two? I don't think they tried to make him "more white" or anything like that, but there does seem to be a change to make him more "European fantasy king"-ly.

New Regis, 15 Years Ago:

Old Regis, ~10-15 Years Ago:

Old Regis, "Modern Day":
Click to expand...

Old Regis' beard game is weak as hell. New Regis for life.
 
Socivol said:
FF XIII also calls them Eidolons
Click to expand...

Eh, forgot about that.

I blame the terrible development conditions.
Tom Slattery said:
Final Fantasy XIII was my first non-retranslation. That I worked on with Phil Bright, who has also since left Square Enix. From a localization perspective, that game was an absolute logistical nightmare. I understand any complaints people may have with the localization from the outside looking in. They are entirely valid. From the inside, knowing what we had to contend with, I am absolutely amazed at the level of work we managed to produce.
Click to expand...
 
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