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[calistan]

But dice rolls and chances are the crux of the game -- its very foundation. And how things can go not according to your plan, and then you have to improvise.

Heisenberg's uncertainty principle?

 

[KrazyKrelian]

Why does reloading a save take so long? I'm on PC and it takes 15-20 seconds. I can load up much more visually demanding games in a fraction of the time.

 

[Kilau]

Make up your own definitions and then argue with others when they don't agree.

It’s totally fine to commit a mortal sin.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

You definitely saw them, but didn't post them because you bleed green. I'm not even sure why you're trying to hide it? I hope you have the same energy with the series consoles when BG3 releases on them. You fucking won't though, you will somehow miss those videos too.

The definition of being triggered, wow.

All because your a PlayStation super fan and he’s an Xbox super fan.
Get your life order LMAO!!

 

[The Cockatrice]

Make up your own definitions and then argue with others when they don't agree.

So reloading because your character died to a bad roll is not as your own fucking picture says: undesirable outcome? Are you an idiot or you cant read? Save scumming is the act of quick saving and quick reloading because of an outcome you do not like. That includes getting detected in stealth games, companions dying, failing any kind of chance mechanics, failing a mission, failing a quest, etc. As long as you spam it, its save scumming and yes, that included you failing in combat or your companions dying and you keep reloading to save up scrolls, because lets be real, the game has what 7 companios? You can certainly forget about the dead ones and continue with the rest, but im sure in your head, that cant happen. Now go and keep save scumming my guy, no one here will report you. We can argue that, if you get Game Over and you reload is not a save scum, sure, but lets ignore that word for a second because its dumb as it is. You complain about people reloading after a bad outcome instead of sticking with it, but wiping is also a bad outcome, shouldnt they stick with it like any tabletop and just restart the game from scratch? That is why the idea behind save scumming or morality is idiotic. We quick save and quick load in miillions of game, there is no high ground if people decide to change their outcome or see a different one. If that is not clear, then I give up.

 

[DryvBy]

This has to be one of the worst performers for a PS5 native app, no?

This is going to make me hold off on it on PS5 for a bit. I get that trash performance on my now mid PC.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

Weird that they are trying to push both modes through a 1440p resolution. It must be something tied to the early development and I almost want to hope that by the time the game releases the resolutions will be sorted out.

 

[RoadHazard]

By that logic, if the dice rolls fails you in combat and your entire party gets fucked, do you stop playing the game entirely and delete the game? Dont be ridiculous. Every single human has reloaded and save scummed in any chance based games, like pathfinder, xcom, etc. Hell even the devs themselves reloaded in official streams. You can certainly go with the dice roll in major story choices, but everything else? If you have no way of getting a major quest item because you failed the dice? Do you just stop half way in the game and play something else? Fucking lol

Is that a thing that can actually happen in this game? You just game over?

Either way, in that case you would obviously reload your last save, like in any other game with game over states. That's not save scumming.

In any other case though, no, I would not reload. The point is that anything can happen and you have to live with the consequences, right? You can't "reload" if you fuck up or get an undesirable dice roll when playing actual pen and paper D&D.

 

[Morrie’s wig shop]

This is going to make me hold off on it on PS5 for a bit. I get that trash performance on my now mid PC.

Exactly, I might as well have just started on the PC then.
I’m sure it will be in a “console” playable state when released. Hopefully

 

[The Cockatrice]

Is that a thing that can actually happen in this game? You just game over?

Either way, in that case you would obviously reload your last save, like in any other game with game over states. That's not save scumming.

In any other case though, no, I would not reload. The point is that anything can happen and you have to live with the consequences, right? You can't "reload" if you fuck up or get an undesirable dice roll when playing actual pen and paper D&D.

So reloading because your character died to a bad roll is not as your own fucking picture says: undesirable outcome? Are you an idiot or you cant read? Save scumming is the act of quick saving and quick reloading because of an outcome you do not like. That includes getting detected in stealth games, companions dying, failing any kind of chance mechanics, failing a mission, failing a quest, etc. As long as you spam it, its save scumming and yes, that included you failing in combat or your companions dying and you keep reloading to save up scrolls, because lets be real, the game has what 7 companios? You can certainly forget about the dead ones and continue with the rest, but im sure in your head, that cant happen. Now go and keep save scumming my guy, no one here will report you. We can argue that, if you get Game Over and you reload is not a save scum, sure, but lets ignore that word for a second because its dumb as it is. You complain about people reloading after a bad outcome instead of sticking with it, but wiping is also a bad outcome, shouldnt they stick with it like any tabletop and just restart the game from scratch? That is why the idea behind save scumming or morality is idiotic. We quick save and quick load in miillions of game, there is no high ground if people decide to change their outcome or see a different one. If that is not clear, then I give up.

I explained it here, the last half.

 

[RoadHazard]

I explained it here, the last half.

Ok, but where you do draw the line? If you're just constantly reloading after any undesirable outcome, are you really even playing the game? At least you're not playing by the game's rules, but forcing the outcomes you prefer.

 

[The Cockatrice]

Ok, but where you do draw the line? If you're just constantly reloading after any undesirable outcome, are you really even playing the game? At least you're not playing by the game's rules, but forcing the outcomes you prefer.

Players decide where they draw the line. It's an RPG, thats the beauty of it, having a choice. If your weird morals prevent you from reloading if you messed up a story choice and got a character killed but somehow you reload if that character dies in combat, then thats up to you or everyone else. Like I said, save scumming is a stupid definition made up by elitists purists. No one on this planet has played a fresh game without ever reloading, especially rpgs. If they say they did, I dont believe them. Imagine playing a 150 hour rpg to perfection only to get fucked by a badly implemented dice roll and mess up your game. Imagine playing XCOM missing a 90% chance shot, getting your team killed and having to start with privates at the end of the game where you can't afford to lose and you get game over with only a restart available. That would be FUN.

Basically, what you're saying is: story bad outcome=reload=save scum, combat bad outcome=reload=not save scum. Do you see the flaw in this logic? Like I said, if you have high morals about people reloading after a story due to bad dice rolls, then the same morals should be applied to game over due to bad rolls. Restart the game.

 

[gaming_again]

But dice rolls and chances are the crux of the game -- its very foundation. And how things can go not according to your plan, and then you have to improvise. The new Dungeons & Dragons: Honor Among Thieves captured this feeling of DnD perfectly.

If you force your desired outcome by save-scumming, that defeats the entire purpose of the game in my opinion.

I agree with you.

 

[RoadHazard]

Players decide where they draw the line. It's an RPG, thats the beauty of it, having a choice. If your weird morals prevent you from reloading if you messed up a story choice and got a character killed but somehow you reload if that character dies in combat, then thats up to you or everyone else. Like I said, save scumming is a stupid definition made up by elitists purists. No one on this planet has played a fresh game without ever reloading, especially rpgs. If they say they did, I dont believe them. Imagine playing a 150 hour rpg to perfection only to get fucked by a badly implemented dice roll and mess up your game. Imagine playing XCOM missing a 90% chance shot, getting your team killed and having to start with privates at the end of the game where you can't afford to lose and you get game over with only a restart available. That would be FUN.

Basically, what you're saying is: story bad outcome=reload=save scum, combat bad outcome=reload=not save scum. Do you see the flaw in this logic? Like I said, if you have high morals about people reloading after a story due to bad dice rolls, then the same morals should be applied to game over due to bad rolls. Restart the game.

No, I'm basically saying that reloading when you'd otherwise have to start the entire game over is not save scumming. Pretty much everything else is.

To me the point of RPGs isn't to play them "to perfection", it's to make choices and face the consequences. That's part of the journey, I feel. If you're reloading on every bad outcome, you're saying you only accept the consequences that benefit you.

 

[thuGG_pl]

Players decide where they draw the line. It's an RPG, thats the beauty of it, having a choice. If your weird morals prevent you from reloading if you messed up a story choice and got a character killed but somehow you reload if that character dies in combat, then thats up to you or everyone else. Like I said, save scumming is a stupid definition made up by elitists purists. No one on this planet has played a fresh game without ever reloading, especially rpgs. If they say they did, I dont believe them. Imagine playing a 150 hour rpg to perfection only to get fucked by a badly implemented dice roll and mess up your game. Imagine playing XCOM missing a 90% chance shot, getting your team killed and having to start with privates at the end of the game where you can't afford to lose and you get game over with only a restart available. That would be FUN.

Basically, what you're saying is: story bad outcome=reload=save scum, combat bad outcome=reload=not save scum. Do you see the flaw in this logic? Like I said, if you have high morals about people reloading after a story due to bad dice rolls, then the same morals should be applied to game over due to bad rolls. Restart the game.

But surprise surprise, the game doesn't block you from save scumming. You can do as you wish.

 

[The Cockatrice]

To me the point of RPGs isn't to play them "to perfection", it's to make choices and face the consequences.

Dying is a consequence. Perfection means, you should live with that outcome and restart the game. The dice decided your fate in combat. You have to live with it just as you live with the choice in story. There is no one and the other. Either both are save scumming or neither are or you agree that save scumming is a stupid idea and you shoudnt judge people who reload if they failed to bang Shadowheart just as they dont judge you for reloading because your 90% chance to kill that boss failed and you reloaded for getting wiped after that consequence.

 

[thuGG_pl]

Dying is a consequence. Perfection means, you should live with that outcome and restart the game. The dice decided your fate in combat. You have to live with it just as you live with the choice in story. There is no one and the other. Either both are save scumming or neither are or you agree that save scumming is a stupid idea.

But you won't die every minute, or even every 5 minutes, probably not even every hour. So chill, chances are you will be loading a game rougly 1-2 times an hour.

 

[The Cockatrice]

But you won't die every minute, or even every 5 minutes, probably not even every hour. So chill, chances are you will be loading a game rougly 1-2 times an hour.

I've reloaded in combat quite a lot of times due to bugs, bad luck and my stupid ass playing a launch game on Tactician, when it was clearly not properly tested. Or the fact that certain character killed someone at the start of the game but the game decided that, nah theyre both fine. Should I have lived with that consequence or reloaded? Again, "save scumming" the idea just triggers me. Let people decide their own fate. It's a game, it wont ruin it and I doubt people reload every second due to bad choices. The game isnt that unfair. Dice rolls aret skill based. Baldurs Gate hardly has any skill involved. Players who live with every dice roll, arent better at the game than those who dont.

 

[RoadHazard]

Dying is a consequence. Perfection means, you should live with that outcome and restart the game. The dice decided your fate in combat. You have to live with it just as you live with the choice in story. There is no one and the other. Either both are save scumming or neither are or you agree that save scumming is a stupid idea.

I'm not saying you're not allowed to save scum, but I think you'll find that the vast majority of players don't agree with you but DO agree with me on what save scumming is and what it isn't.

 

[thuGG_pl]

I've reloaded in combat quite a lot of times due to bugs, bad luck and my stupid ass playing a launch game on Tactician, when it was clearly not properly tested. Or the fact that certain character killed someone at the start of the game but the game decided that, nah theyre both fine. Should I have lived with that consequence or reloaded? Again, "save scumming" the idea just triggers me. Let people decide their own fate. It's a game, it wont ruin it and I doubt people reload every second due to bad choices. The game isnt that unfair. Dice rolls aret skill based. Baldurs Gate hardly has any skill involved. Players who live with every dice roll, arent better at the game than those who dont.

As I said, the game doesn't block you from reloading.

 

[RoadHazard]

I've reloaded in combat quite a lot of times due to bugs, bad luck and my stupid ass playing a launch game on Tactician, when it was clearly not properly tested. Or the fact that certain character killed someone at the start of the game but the game decided that, nah theyre both fine. Should I have lived with that consequence or reloaded? Again, "save scumming" the idea just triggers me. Let people decide their own fate. It's a game, it wont ruin it and I doubt people reload every second due to bad choices. The game isnt that unfair. Dice rolls aret skill based. Baldurs Gate hardly has any skill involved. Players who live with every dice roll, arent better at the game than those who dont.

Reloading due to things glitching is different. That I agree is not save scumming. Doing it because of bad luck or your own bad choices is, though.

 

[Markio128]

Personally, I live with the consequences of a visible dice roll (sometimes you get a couple of re-rolls), and obviously reload my save if my team have been battered, or are fighting a losing battle.

I’ve lost a companion already to a visible dice roll outside of combat lol. I’m happy to continue with this kind of thing though because it‘s the basis of my own personal story within the game.

 

[Macaron]

"save scumming" who gives a fuck how people play the game lol

 

[The Cockatrice]

I'm not saying you're not allowed to save scum, but I think you'll find that the vast majority of players don't agree with you but DO agree with me on what save scumming is and what it isn't.

The biggest singleplayer streamers on the planet, cohh and others all save scummed for a month in front of thousands of players and no one cared. Devs reloaded in their streams. No one cared. Pretty sure, everyone save scums, when it comes to combat and less so with major story choices but I can tell you, that even I tried several outcomes in story just to see what would happen. The beauty of it is seeing if the devs actually implemented a completely different scenario or story. For example, there was a character that you had to protect, naturally I thought it was not important, something happens to it, cutscene starts and all goes to shit. My mind was like, wait, no way I legit had to protect that character because it ended too quickly so I obviously reloaded to see if the same outcome happens or not, and it did not, and it made me love Larian even more because the whole god damn story changed because of it. Not everyone reloads because they want the outcome they prefer, sometimes we just want to see what would happen, because theres too many games to play and we dont have time to replay again.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Is that a thing that can actually happen in this game? You just game over?

Either way, in that case you would obviously reload your last save, like in any other game with game over states. That's not save scumming.

In any other case though, no, I would not reload. The point is that anything can happen and you have to live with the consequences, right? You can't "reload" if you fuck up or get an undesirable dice roll when playing actual pen and paper D&D.

Exactly. That's what I've been trying to explain.

• Reloading because the game got stuck in a failing loop = It is NOT save scumming.
• Reloading every few minutes because you did not like a particular outcome = THAT is save scumming.

Guy has been making up his own definitions on the fly.

 

[RoadHazard]

The biggest singleplayer streamers on the planet, cohh and others all save scummed for a month in front of thousands of players and no one cared. Devs reloaded in their streams. No one cared. Pretty sure, everyone save scums, when it comes to combat and less so with major story choices but I can tell you, that even I tried several outcomes in story just to see what would happen.

Wanting to see different outcomes I can kinda get, although I would personally rather do that on later playthroughs.

The devs doing that I would assume was because they wanted to show off specific stuff?

Either way, you're free to do whatever you want! Personally I would just rather have my own story, with the good and the bad, not the "perfect" story.

 

[gaming_again]

Exactly. That's what I've been trying to explain.

• Reloading because the game got stuck in a failing loop = It is NOT save scumming.
• Reloading every few minutes because you did not like a particular outcome = THAT is save scumming.

Guy has been making up his own definitions on the fly.

But you said you save during stealth games...

 

[Heisenberg007]

But you said you save during stealth games...

I did not.

Edit: I think it was a r/whoosh moment for me. I didn't get your sarcasm.

 

[Nankatsu]

What a doodoo performance.

Won't be there day one, I'll wait until they patch it.

 

[welshrat]

couldn't get my dark souls plats with some save scumming. What's a bit of scum between friends

 

[gaming_again]

But you said you save during stealth games...

I was meant to quote The Cockatrice but I think my browser must have reloaded new replies or something.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I was meant to quote The Cockatrice but I think my browser must have reloaded new replies or something.

May have happened again

 

[Heisenberg007]

couldn't get my dark souls plats with some save scumming. What's a bit of scum between friends

That's fine, to be honest. However, you enjoy it!

For reference, the argument started when someone asked how big of a deal is the ~30-second loading time. That Cockatrice guy chimed in saying that it is a big deal because you have to reload frequently.

I said it's so only if you're save-scumming. If you're not, then the loading time is not as frequent and, therefore, not a big problem. I also said, "in my opinion save-scumming a game like BG3 would not be the best way to play."

I didn't ask him NOT to save-scum. He can do whatever he wants.

 

[hemo memo]

Unoptimized port?

 

[The Cockatrice]

Personally I would just rather have my own story, with the good and the bad, not the "perfect" story.

I never said people should save scum every second in the story. The intention was to not judge those who do when you(not you, specifically) reload in combat plenty of times.

said it's so only if you're save-scumming. If you're not, then the loading time is not as frequent and, therefore, not a big problem.

I was also talking about combat, hence the mention of "tactician". Then you started saying its the incorrect way, as if reloading in combat was not the right way, so not sure how it ended up where it ended.

 

[twilo99]

I wonder why they were so confident?

 

[SmokedMeat]

Watch Series S wind up being the best console version lol

 

[MarkMe2525]

I require 144hz at minimum for my turn based games.

Make up your own definitions and then argue with others when they don't agree.

That's literally what he described

 

[twilo99]

Has anyone tried the split screen yet?

 

[Kataploom]

But why? . There are no real input benefits for this type of game… no requisite for precision inputs. It’s not a fighting game or an action game. I say enjoy the game at 30 in quality. At the end of the day yoh and the computer have to take turns hitting each other anyway. No precise parrying required so no need for 60FPS. But clearly this game needs a patch or two in terms of over all finish and polish.

Frame rate is also "graphic appeal" for some of us. The fluidity of the animations at 60+ fps is something we think looks great, while 30 fps animations, camera movement, etc. Look stiff and ugly compared to it.

 

[YeulEmeralda]

"save scumming" who gives a fuck how people play the game lol

The purpose of a videogame is to entertain and if I'm entertained with save scumming it's all good.

 

[MarkMe2525]

The purpose of a videogame is to entertain and if I'm entertained with save scumming it's all good.

Nothing like elitist gatekeepers telling you that you are having fun the wrong way.

 

[ReBurn]

Nothing like elitist gatekeepers telling you that you are having fun the wrong way.

Like those people who complain when you say you like to play on easy mode. And the ones who tell you that you don't deserve trophies/achievements because you didn't work as hard for them as they did. People treating games like jobs. Complete childishness.

 

[DenchDeckard]

People can play a game exactly how they want.

Sure, some might say that isn't right but ultimately...you've paid for...or subscribed to play the game. You do you.

 

[JCK75]

Ummm....



wut?

Thank goodness I have the PC version.

I'm playing it on PC too and with an SSD my load times on PC were rather nuts.. I love this game but it's horribly unoptimized..

 

[RickMasters]

Frame rate is also "graphic appeal" for some of us. The fluidity of the animations at 60+ fps is something we think looks great, while 30 fps animations, camera movement, etc. Look stiff and ugly compared to it.

For that I can understand and appreciate that point of view. but it should not come at the expense of overall performance if it cannot be locked in.

 

[RickMasters]

R u serious? Because, esp on an Oled 60 still looks more stable and feels better ..even on a crpg. With 30 there's judder. Its not as bad as an fps or 3rd person action game but its there.

R U being realistic? if your playing on console you better get used to more 30FPS games coming..... fact of the matter is you cant play it judder free at 60 on console...so you may aswell enjoy it at a locked 30....... each to their own I guess....

 

[Skifi28]

The purpose of a videogame is to entertain and if I'm entertained with save scumming it's all good.

This is wrong. You are only allowed to have fun the approved way.

 

[Kataploom]

For that I can understand and appreciate that point of view. but it should not come at the expense of overall performance if it cannot be locked in.

Oh yeah, motion fluidity isn't if it's a juddery mess

 

[midasmulligan]

Eff me, this thing is real rough on my PS5, first 15 mins—HDR is broken and audio completely stops on headphones of you have 3d audio enabled not to mention terrible IQ on performance. This is going to be a bumpy ride, isn’t it?