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First Fable Review??? (Maybe, maybe not. Decide for yourself)
- Thread starter sonycowboy
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Blazing Sword said:
a)Lionhead gives out a game for review, GMR did not go in and steal an unfinished build.
b) the last month likely did not revolve around adding massive amounts of content etc. to the game, they were probably polishing, bugfixing, balancing etc. Massive changes to content, control scheme, etc. just don't occur during the final days of development, unless you are stupid/your game is 0.2/10 trash.
c) acording to your logic people should not be able to review things like MMORPGs until months after release because of all the content there is to explore. At some point one has to accept that they have seen enough of a game to make a measured decision on it, even if they have not plowed through every second of the game in every possible alignment.
Blazing Sword
Member
scola said:
a)A game with bugs usually warrants a lower score for most reviewers. If alot of those bugs are eliminated after the supposed review, it can make a huge impact on the game. Regardless, the game was technically incomplete when it was reviewed.
b) MMORPGs are different. Fable is single player.
deadhorse32
Bad Art
Blazing Sword said:
Almost all review are made with BETA version deemed reviewable by the publisher/studio.
It's nothing new and it has always been like that. Anyway you don't had new feature in the last month of development, YOU IRON OUT ALL THE BUGS at that point.
I've got nothing against pink. Its a fine color. Its not a masculine color. Putting a young boy on a pink background does not represent the game well at all. Let's just say that Fable isn't as secure about it masculinity as GTA.MetatronM said:
Jooey: Just because the design is suppose to look like crap, doesn't mean we have to like it. Ripping off music album covers does not make it creative, eclictic, or unique. Nor does bashing it make anyone narrow-minded.
ScientificNinja
Member
I don't want to give too much away on account of various documents I've had to sign, but seriously, I have played through several builds of the game multiple times, and I can say this much: anyone who complains that Fable is too difficult has either never played a game in his life or has plain fabricated the review. I'd tend to lean towards the complete opposite and say that it's a bit on the easy side. The challenges are pitched at a steadily increasing difficulty (hordes of hobbes, multiple balverines, multiple rock monsters - the fact that I can waltz through the Gladiator-style collisseum challenge about 2/3 into the story pretty much sums up the combat).
The controls are NOT clunky at all. Considering the number of options that are available, I'd say BBB has done a remarkable job. *Maybe* it's a bit clumsier on the Duke - I don't recall fumbling at all, but I do recall thinking I preferred it on the S-pad - but any clunkiness, if you can call it that, would be on account of being a child who hasn't levelled up his speed, guile and physique. The only thing I'm a bit irked by is the fact that there are so many items and expressions that can be used at once, but you've only got a finite number of buttons to map them to. So, for instance, if you wanted to approach a girl, say hi, flirt, offer her a rose, then a box of chocolates, then fart, then say sorry, then strike a manly pose, flex your muscle, then say "thanks" when she says "You're, just, the most gorgeous man I've ever laid eyes on", ask her to follow you to a private place and offer her a fake wedding ring, you're going to have to do a lot of those actions manually.
Anyway, enough ranting. The score is ultimately subjective, but for my money, based on the first post in this thread, I'd say Christian Nutt didn't get to play the game for more than five minutes, if at all.
The controls are NOT clunky at all. Considering the number of options that are available, I'd say BBB has done a remarkable job. *Maybe* it's a bit clumsier on the Duke - I don't recall fumbling at all, but I do recall thinking I preferred it on the S-pad - but any clunkiness, if you can call it that, would be on account of being a child who hasn't levelled up his speed, guile and physique. The only thing I'm a bit irked by is the fact that there are so many items and expressions that can be used at once, but you've only got a finite number of buttons to map them to. So, for instance, if you wanted to approach a girl, say hi, flirt, offer her a rose, then a box of chocolates, then fart, then say sorry, then strike a manly pose, flex your muscle, then say "thanks" when she says "You're, just, the most gorgeous man I've ever laid eyes on", ask her to follow you to a private place and offer her a fake wedding ring, you're going to have to do a lot of those actions manually.
Anyway, enough ranting. The score is ultimately subjective, but for my money, based on the first post in this thread, I'd say Christian Nutt didn't get to play the game for more than five minutes, if at all.
Blazing Sword
Member
ScientificNinja said:
Like I said...
a) christian never said the game was too difficult. the only line in the review that mentions it is "The game can be difficult" (emphasis added). there's quite a bit of difference between "is too difficult" and "can be difficult", especially when the latter phrase was in a non-negative context.
b) he did play it. a lot actually, as he says in his blog, which was already posted in this thread. he flew over to england to play it, in fact. lots of people saw him go. we missed him <-------this much------> when he was gone.
c) two days after he got back from england, review builds were sent to the other magazines. two days. we weren't pleased about the logistics of it, but we didn't review an early build that others aren't reviewing.
b) he did play it. a lot actually, as he says in his blog, which was already posted in this thread. he flew over to england to play it, in fact. lots of people saw him go. we missed him <-------this much------> when he was gone.
c) two days after he got back from england, review builds were sent to the other magazines. two days. we weren't pleased about the logistics of it, but we didn't review an early build that others aren't reviewing.
might as well stir the shit: isn't christian nutt a big jrpg advocate? i think he's on the other team.
a critic should of course be able to suspend his personal biases, and i think it's only fair to give christian nutt the benefit of the doubt. still, it'd be nice to know what he expects of the genre.
ScientificNinja
Member
skip said:
And that's why I phrased my accusation the way I did: it's based on the first post in this thread.
(unfortunately I don't have a massive amount of time to play with and go hunting around on other forums/blogs/etc). Even in spite of what you've said here, I can only surmise one fundamental thing: he was the wrong person for the job. Sure, I failed a mission or two, but never once did it enter my mind that "Geez, this can be a bit difficult". I can see why someone would give Fable an 8. Or even a 7. But it wouldn't be on account of overflowing/clunky controls or whatnot.
ScientificNinja said:And that's why I phrased my accusation the way I did: it's based on the first post in this thread.
Even in spite of what you've said here, I can only surmise one fundamental thing: he was the wrong person for the job. Sure, I failed a mission or two, but never once did it enter my mind that "Geez, this can be a bit difficult". I can see why someone would give Fable an 8. Or even a 7. But it wouldn't be on account of overflowing/clunky controls or whatnot.
it wasn't. these are the preceeding and proceeding sentences in the review:
please in the future, before accusing my crew of fabricating reviews, wait until they are actually readable. thanks.
jesus, the wrong person for the job? not everyone who plays fable will be an RPG-adept dork who turns their nose up at the mythical weaksauce. i've known christian a long time, and can vouch for his vast knowledge of action RPGs on consoles. it's not a matter of east vs. west here. christian clearly enjoys the aesthetic, the dialogue, the overall atmosphere.
he didn't like the controls that much -- is that so hard to understand? and yeah, maybe for an action RPG, the game CAN be hard FOR SOME. wtf? too hard to comprehend?
there isn't a huge omfg-GMR-is-reviewing-teh-beta conspiracy, no fucking moneyhats, no haterade -- just one guy's opinion on something you (scientificninja) obviously feel the need to defend. i've gotten a good chunk of time in with fable as well, and if anything, this game doesn't need your help.
fable will be loved by many. 8 is a good score. get a fucking life. (okay, i'll go ahead and say it for you: "i have a life, you goddamn journalist hack, fuck you and your fucking blog, buddy!")
----
http://chespace.1up.com
he didn't like the controls that much -- is that so hard to understand? and yeah, maybe for an action RPG, the game CAN be hard FOR SOME. wtf? too hard to comprehend?
there isn't a huge omfg-GMR-is-reviewing-teh-beta conspiracy, no fucking moneyhats, no haterade -- just one guy's opinion on something you (scientificninja) obviously feel the need to defend. i've gotten a good chunk of time in with fable as well, and if anything, this game doesn't need your help.
fable will be loved by many. 8 is a good score. get a fucking life. (okay, i'll go ahead and say it for you: "i have a life, you goddamn journalist hack, fuck you and your fucking blog, buddy!")
----
http://chespace.1up.com
evilromero
Member
jarrod said:
Fixed. With the added "no shit" comment.
i would have given it a 6.8 but as there is no such score on our scale, i had to settle for an 8.
and yes, fable is just a TOS clone. this is why it got the same score, obviously. i mean, it just makes sense, doesn't it? on this note, karaoke revolution vol. 2 (8/10, GMR issue 19) is also a TOS clone.
scientificninja, STFU. you clearly know what you're talking about re: fable, but haven't a clue about my review. so stick it in your bottom!
and yes, fable is just a TOS clone. this is why it got the same score, obviously. i mean, it just makes sense, doesn't it? on this note, karaoke revolution vol. 2 (8/10, GMR issue 19) is also a TOS clone.
scientificninja, STFU. you clearly know what you're talking about re: fable, but haven't a clue about my review. so stick it in your bottom!
ScientificNinja
Member
skip said:
Oh that's very rich, coming from someone working on the publication. Like I said, I don't really pay attention to much outside of this forum. Look, if you want to be cute about the very clear qualification I'd made, then perhaps you'd like to explain what your review is based on? I'm quite familiar with all of the builds of the game, and I know yours isn't really the review build at all. So what exactly is your credibility built on again? Have a nice day
this game isnt coming out for another 3 weeks, wont we have to wait until then to see what gamespot and ign give it?
I got the gmr magazine through the eb offer. I think GMR loves there japanese style games, they are ussually very hyped for the latest nintendo offerings. When I read there monthly xbox paragraphs its often negative, like them letting psychonaughts and oddworld go, casting MS as foolish and the bad guy. I guess its a perspective that I dont see.
being an old pc gamer turned xbox convert who tends to like the western games, I find myself often alienated by their magazine, it just seems the xbox gets the 3rd console treatment, the big news this month is TFLO gets Canned!
I believe the guy who reviewed the game is the same guy who writes the monthly blurb in their news section.
Well, the reviewers I trust the most is gamespot, if its not aaa, they USSUALLY get things right.
I got the gmr magazine through the eb offer. I think GMR loves there japanese style games, they are ussually very hyped for the latest nintendo offerings. When I read there monthly xbox paragraphs its often negative, like them letting psychonaughts and oddworld go, casting MS as foolish and the bad guy. I guess its a perspective that I dont see.
being an old pc gamer turned xbox convert who tends to like the western games, I find myself often alienated by their magazine, it just seems the xbox gets the 3rd console treatment, the big news this month is TFLO gets Canned!
I believe the guy who reviewed the game is the same guy who writes the monthly blurb in their news section.
Well, the reviewers I trust the most is gamespot, if its not aaa, they USSUALLY get things right.
Semjaza Azazel
Member
ferricide said:
Wait, this is your review everyone is bitching about?
After reading this guy's write-ups on Game Spy about various games (including the ONLY good articles about Megaten I've ever seen on a mainstream site), I see no reason to distrust him at all. This isn't someone I personally feel doesn't know what he's talking about. Quite the opposite.
ScientificNinja
Member
chespace said:
I'm by no means defending the game - I'm questioning the merits of Christian's review process.
Blazing Sword
Member
Holy Christ, this guy practically hates western games, worships japanese games, and says HALO is 'creepy and wrong.' Why on EARTH GMR, did you let a guy like this review one of XBOX biggest games thats western developed when he clearly has a huge bias?
This was entirely intentional. The proof is in the pudding:
Christians journal
today whilst he was playing burnout 3, che accused me of hating it. not that he'd ever heard me say so -- in fact, he'd already heard the opposite. but my longterm lack of appreciation for the fruits of western developers has been well-documented over the course of our 8-year (!?!) association.
i'll admit it: i typically don't groove to the western beat, despite the fact that i, myself, am of pale-skinned and hopelessly dorky stock. i grew up in new jersey, for chrissakes, on a diet of NES, SMS, turbografx, genesis, SNES, saturn, playstation, dreamcast...
and the first western (console -- i loved old PC adventure games) game to turn my head (after wrestlemania, RC pro-am, and anticipation on NES -- back when rare was worth a shit) was probably wipeout. suddenly i was grooving to this british game, and its sequel (WOXL) was just divine. but more often i found myself suckered in by japanese games.
this generation has started to turn it around. i've played some good, some bad, and some indifferent western games, and i've played many more japanese games, and i'm beginning to understand the grooves western developers can be in.
i am still largely indifferent to FPSes -- halo is fun with 8+ players, but what the hell wouldn't be.
i still absolutely detest straight military themes. for one, they're about as boring and uncreative as possible, just tedious, humorless men with guns. for another, i just don't like the whole thing. it feels creepy and wrong to me. that's just me, of course, but i can't shake it and don't want to fantasize about it.
but i've come to appreciate what western designers bring to the table. i am looking forward to a world in which the genres blend together. even if the games aren't to my taste, thematically, i'm looking forward to cross-cultural influences in both directions getting bigger and bolder. deus ex and GTA can teach japan about freedom; just about any japanese game can teach the west about presentation, character, and style. ico, katamari damacy, shin megami tensei: nocturne... there's a lot to learn there, guys.
so i'm hoping that FFXII isn't a freak accident, and i'm hoping that cool games like fable and maybe jade empire (let's see how it turns out before i deem it officially 'cool') keep cross-pollinating, creating games from every side that really call out to me: maybe my xbox 2 and playstation 3 libraries won't be so skewed toward the east. maybe? we'll see"
Christians Journal
This was entirely intentional. The proof is in the pudding:
Christians journal
today whilst he was playing burnout 3, che accused me of hating it. not that he'd ever heard me say so -- in fact, he'd already heard the opposite. but my longterm lack of appreciation for the fruits of western developers has been well-documented over the course of our 8-year (!?!) association.
i'll admit it: i typically don't groove to the western beat, despite the fact that i, myself, am of pale-skinned and hopelessly dorky stock. i grew up in new jersey, for chrissakes, on a diet of NES, SMS, turbografx, genesis, SNES, saturn, playstation, dreamcast...
and the first western (console -- i loved old PC adventure games) game to turn my head (after wrestlemania, RC pro-am, and anticipation on NES -- back when rare was worth a shit) was probably wipeout. suddenly i was grooving to this british game, and its sequel (WOXL) was just divine. but more often i found myself suckered in by japanese games.
this generation has started to turn it around. i've played some good, some bad, and some indifferent western games, and i've played many more japanese games, and i'm beginning to understand the grooves western developers can be in.
i am still largely indifferent to FPSes -- halo is fun with 8+ players, but what the hell wouldn't be.
i still absolutely detest straight military themes. for one, they're about as boring and uncreative as possible, just tedious, humorless men with guns. for another, i just don't like the whole thing. it feels creepy and wrong to me. that's just me, of course, but i can't shake it and don't want to fantasize about it.
but i've come to appreciate what western designers bring to the table. i am looking forward to a world in which the genres blend together. even if the games aren't to my taste, thematically, i'm looking forward to cross-cultural influences in both directions getting bigger and bolder. deus ex and GTA can teach japan about freedom; just about any japanese game can teach the west about presentation, character, and style. ico, katamari damacy, shin megami tensei: nocturne... there's a lot to learn there, guys.
so i'm hoping that FFXII isn't a freak accident, and i'm hoping that cool games like fable and maybe jade empire (let's see how it turns out before i deem it officially 'cool') keep cross-pollinating, creating games from every side that really call out to me: maybe my xbox 2 and playstation 3 libraries won't be so skewed toward the east. maybe? we'll see"
Christians Journal
I´m still amazed (even after all this years) that this type of threads counts with the opinion of the guys that make the reviews, or his director.
Just for curiosity, what is the point of defending a review that some people are bashing just for its score?. For what I see here (correct me If I´m wrong), GMR is not out yet, but people bash the reviewer, even without reading the text. That doen´t need any defense.
Christian, Che, I´m no one to tell you what you have to post or answer on internet forums. But I´m sure I would wait to answer any criticism until the issue is on the street and the critic has any base (that is, based on the text itself).
Just for curiosity, what is the point of defending a review that some people are bashing just for its score?. For what I see here (correct me If I´m wrong), GMR is not out yet, but people bash the reviewer, even without reading the text. That doen´t need any defense.
Christian, Che, I´m no one to tell you what you have to post or answer on internet forums. But I´m sure I would wait to answer any criticism until the issue is on the street and the critic has any base (that is, based on the text itself).
ScientificNinja
Member
ferricide said:
Did you even bother to read my post, or are you just that paranoid about the quality of your work?
The first two paragraphs don't even refer to you - they were generic comments, along the lines of "anyone who...".
The name Christian Nutt only ever came up at the very very end, with a very obvious and explicit disclaimer attached. Are you actually a journalist? I'd have thought you'd pick up on something like that in a heartbeat, despite how unpleasant it must be for you.
To all those people who are saying 8 is a good score, yeah for most games it is, but not for all games.
The video game industry is full of hype, and like it or not it enters into many reviewers scores, whether they can admit it or not(or even know it themselves)
If GTA, halo 2, metroid prime 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Gran turismo, zelda gets an 8, its a low score for a games like that. Fable is being pushed by MS as a big time franchise, one that they hope is up to the level of the above games. If this game averages an 8 at gamerankings its a major letdown, and in fact will have the same gamerankings score as another highly touted MS letdown BRUTE FORCE.
I think ferricide is well aware of the hype, and his scores significance on gaming boards. Dont know if any of this had an influence on his judgement of fable at all.
The video game industry is full of hype, and like it or not it enters into many reviewers scores, whether they can admit it or not(or even know it themselves)
If GTA, halo 2, metroid prime 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Gran turismo, zelda gets an 8, its a low score for a games like that. Fable is being pushed by MS as a big time franchise, one that they hope is up to the level of the above games. If this game averages an 8 at gamerankings its a major letdown, and in fact will have the same gamerankings score as another highly touted MS letdown BRUTE FORCE.
I think ferricide is well aware of the hype, and his scores significance on gaming boards. Dont know if any of this had an influence on his judgement of fable at all.
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