JackFrost2012
Banned
ScientificNinja said::rolleyes
Nothing, really. I think all we've established here is that I'm no friend of GMR and that GMR is no friend of mine
You've also established that you're an idiot.
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First Fable Review??? (Maybe, maybe not. Decide for yourself)
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You've also established that you're an idiot.
JackFrost2012
Banned
chaostrophy said:
That ... is an excellent question.
That's exactly why even I never paid any real attention to my own ratings. It was the actual content of the review that mattered. Certainly my fun factor score would make up a decent chunk of the overall score, but as I suggested above, it wouldn't distract me from a game's problems.
Edit - Response to JJConrad.
Edit - Response to JJConrad.
Let me see if I can articulate this better.JJConrad said:
There are several ways of giving deliberated scores or values to an object. I don't really want to delve to deeply into this because there is actually a fair amount of theory (and theories
) behind it. I could have a lot of fun personally with a title because I love the gameplay, scenerio or something else, but just not feel that it is complete, or deserving of a high score (which 8 is). But then again I could approach it from pure fun factor and give it a score based only on my enjoyment but overlooking other aspects of it.I am not sure which route I would choose were I to do a game review (though I am sure fun factor would weight heavily in my score) but what I wanted to articulate was that I could totally envision someone loving something but not thinking it deserved an 8.
this is also quite important. If I say a game is a lot of fun but severly broken and anemic in features (Simpsons Road Rage) and give it a 7 but I go on to describe some fun and intense multiplayer matches should not disuade you from the game if you can find it for a reasonable price.Mejilan said:
Another point I would like to make is that the more you guys think an 8 is a bad score the quicker review scores will devaluate. pretty soon it will be the olympic gymnastics; most games will get between a 9 an 10 and all you people will argue over tenths, hundredths and thousandths of points..... oh , wait
Drinky Crow
Banned
8 OUT OF 10 BRINGS THE GAMERANKINGS SCORE DOWN AND MANY VALIANT FORUM XDUDERS WILL DIE THIS DAY THANKS TO GMR'S BETRAYAL
THE NINTERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON
THE NINTERRORISTS HAVE ALREADY WON
I can give a hard example.
Aidyn Chronicles - The First Mage. An ill-fated late-gen N64 RPG with the stigma of THQ (IIRC) and Quest 64 to surpass. Admittedly, I totally dig what I then used to call CRPGs and what we'd today more aptly call "Western" RPGs, and I was overjoyed to be getting something along that vein on my N64. It wasn't so much a case of a RPG-starved Nintendo fan finally getting a bone tossed to him (as I was quite sated with Ogre Battle 64 by then, amongst other games on other systems.) It was, in my eyes, a new entry in what is still a woefully underrepresented take on the genre on consoles, then and today.
Why do I bring this up? My background in gaming guaranteed that I'd be interested in it. I bought it, played it once through completion and then half again through after that. I absolutely loved the game. I enjoyed every hour, of which there were many, that I spent with the game. I loved the combat and exploration (its greatest achievements, imho) and thoroughly enjoyed the imagination and world building that tied everything together.
However, I also feel that it rightfully got reviewed harshly. The game was ugly, lacked music, had a horrendously inconsistent framerate, and was obviously rushed out the door. The last boss absolutely SUCKED, the entire last quarter of the game felt pasted together, as there is an immediate drop in quality of the writing, as far as imagination and grammar are concerned. In fact, in the last hours, the game totally falls apart. There are even items still accessible in the game, that do absolutely nothing simply because they hadn't enough time to properly implement their functions. And the engine lent itself to some unfortunate exploitation, again, as evidenced by the last boss, which could be paralyzed with one spell and massacred without ever a chance to fight back.
It was a tough game to review, in some ways, and not nearly as unique a development as I'd like, as far as how games progress in development.
Aidyn Chronicles - The First Mage. An ill-fated late-gen N64 RPG with the stigma of THQ (IIRC) and Quest 64 to surpass. Admittedly, I totally dig what I then used to call CRPGs and what we'd today more aptly call "Western" RPGs, and I was overjoyed to be getting something along that vein on my N64. It wasn't so much a case of a RPG-starved Nintendo fan finally getting a bone tossed to him (as I was quite sated with Ogre Battle 64 by then, amongst other games on other systems.) It was, in my eyes, a new entry in what is still a woefully underrepresented take on the genre on consoles, then and today.
Why do I bring this up? My background in gaming guaranteed that I'd be interested in it. I bought it, played it once through completion and then half again through after that. I absolutely loved the game. I enjoyed every hour, of which there were many, that I spent with the game. I loved the combat and exploration (its greatest achievements, imho) and thoroughly enjoyed the imagination and world building that tied everything together.
However, I also feel that it rightfully got reviewed harshly. The game was ugly, lacked music, had a horrendously inconsistent framerate, and was obviously rushed out the door. The last boss absolutely SUCKED, the entire last quarter of the game felt pasted together, as there is an immediate drop in quality of the writing, as far as imagination and grammar are concerned. In fact, in the last hours, the game totally falls apart. There are even items still accessible in the game, that do absolutely nothing simply because they hadn't enough time to properly implement their functions. And the engine lent itself to some unfortunate exploitation, again, as evidenced by the last boss, which could be paralyzed with one spell and massacred without ever a chance to fight back.
It was a tough game to review, in some ways, and not nearly as unique a development as I'd like, as far as how games progress in development.
I think I understand the thinking (I don't agree with it, but I understand).
Do either of you have any specific examples of games you've marked, despite personal enjoyment? More importantly, what caused you to mark it down.
[EDIT] Mejilan, answered my question before I could ask it.
Do either of you have any specific examples of games you've marked, despite personal enjoyment? More importantly, what caused you to mark it down.
[EDIT] Mejilan, answered my question before I could ask it.
shpankey
not an idiot
Why are some of you acting like this review is the be all end all in reviews? I mean, some of you are apologizing for the 8 score etc. Shit... I just can't believe everyone takes this reviews score of 8 as the "official it is an 8 game". Wtf, you all always agree with this magazine perfectly?
There's always a few scores out there out of whack. Give the game a chance to get a bunch of review scores coming in and stop acting like this is "THE" score.
I, or even you may eventually agree with this magazine to a T. Maybe every other magazine will score it around an 8 as well, but stop freaking out and shit over ONE SINGLE score from one magazine.
newbs
There's always a few scores out there out of whack. Give the game a chance to get a bunch of review scores coming in and stop acting like this is "THE" score.
I, or even you may eventually agree with this magazine to a T. Maybe every other magazine will score it around an 8 as well, but stop freaking out and shit over ONE SINGLE score from one magazine.
newbs
scola said:Another point I would like to make is that the more you guys think an 8 is a bad score the quicker review scores will devaluate. pretty soon it will be the olympic gymnastics; most games will get between a 9 an 10 and all you people will argue over tenths, hundredths and thousandths of points..... oh , wait
It's not the readers' fault the reviewers are so damn inconsistent when scoring the games. It's really their doing. You see the magazines/online sites explaining their rating systems and then you see them barely using supposedly average scores (5) for most games, which should be the case considering that, well, they are AVERAGE.
What you end up having is people believing that 6 is an awful score, 7 is average or decent, 8 is above average, 9 is great and 10 is a superb game.
ScientificNinja said:
why don't you shut your filthy goddamn hole, dickhead?
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Game reviewing simply can't be about the fun a person has playing a game.
Is Silent Hill "fun"? First and foremost, fun is subjective. For me, it's no fun at all to creep around darkened hallways, bludgeon monsters, and wait to be either creeped out or scared. So on this basic level, Silent Hill fails. Yet there's a mastery and a skill that goes beyond the simple enjoyment I derive -- and that's what I have to grade on.
If fun were the sole factor in a game's review, then something like Mutant League Football would get a 10 while something like Madden NFL 2004 would get a five. And if we applied that to movies, Saving Private Ryan would get two thumbs down while, I don't know, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country would be considered the greatest film ever made.
I would also argue a game I like isn't necessarily good, and a game I dislike is not necessarily bad.
That said, I had a lot of fun playing Fable. And I can't wait until I either get a boxed copy or my editor Simon Cox returns my debug with Fable on it so I can beat the game for a second time.
Is Silent Hill "fun"? First and foremost, fun is subjective. For me, it's no fun at all to creep around darkened hallways, bludgeon monsters, and wait to be either creeped out or scared. So on this basic level, Silent Hill fails. Yet there's a mastery and a skill that goes beyond the simple enjoyment I derive -- and that's what I have to grade on.
If fun were the sole factor in a game's review, then something like Mutant League Football would get a 10 while something like Madden NFL 2004 would get a five. And if we applied that to movies, Saving Private Ryan would get two thumbs down while, I don't know, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country would be considered the greatest film ever made.
I would also argue a game I like isn't necessarily good, and a game I dislike is not necessarily bad.
That said, I had a lot of fun playing Fable. And I can't wait until I either get a boxed copy or my editor Simon Cox returns my debug with Fable on it so I can beat the game for a second time.
Just thinking, coming from a Morrowind background. I wonder if the difficulty (and I imagine it is) is so variable depending how you play and your character. Playing as a Mage in Morrowind could be tough but then play as a Knight and pffft! Difficulty may be irrelevant becuase of the type of game Fable is.
I would never an 8 to be a bad score. Though, I understand how hype and expectations can make seem bad.scola said:Another point I would like to make is that the more you guys think an 8 is a bad score the quicker review scores will devaluate. pretty soon it will be the olympic gymnastics; most games will get between a 9 an 10 and all you people will argue over tenths, hundredths and thousandths of points..... oh , wait
However, I do believe that a 7 is average and anything below that isn't good. There are some places that genuinely follow the "5=average" policy, but not many. To be honest, I'm barely familar with GMR and have no idea how consistant the reviews are. "A 7 being average" seems to be the standard most readers believe in, so I don't understand why more reviews don't take that into consideration.
as i said before, at least it didnt get a 6/10. but what im really curious about is what he didnt like about the game, and i suppose we'll have to wait for the mag to hit the stands to discuss those issues.
personally fable doesnt look to me like anything aside from a somewhat better than average game. i would expect 7/8s across the board for it actually.
personally fable doesnt look to me like anything aside from a somewhat better than average game. i would expect 7/8s across the board for it actually.
I briefly mentioned in my last post, that I loved just about every minute that I played of Simpsons Road Rage. But the game is shallow, kind of ugly in some respects (cel shaded cars but not people??) has bad music, lacks features, has "funny twice" voice acting, features some wonky physics, is generally too slow and features all but one crappy levels.JJConrad said:
I love the simpsons, and the game provided some fun multiplayer hours with family and friends, and thusly I really enjoyed most of my time with it.
If I scored it I would give it a 6 or maybe 7 out of 10. and recomend it to select groups of people.
I wouldn't give a game below a 6 either if I was going to receive the amount of shit-tastic e-mail I expect Ferricide to get from his Fable reviewIJoel said:
are you guys going to shit an anaconda for every '8' that fable gets come release day? let me know cuz i got plenty of popcorn and a real nice chair.
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http://chespace.1up.com
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JackFrost2012
Banned
chespace said:
I'm crossing my fingers that someone gives it a 5.5.
scola said:I wouldn't give a game below a 6 either if I was going to receive the amount of shit-tastic e-mail I expect Ferricide to get from his Fable review
Hey, the reviewers were the ones setting the precedent with the review scores.
I know you are being sarcastic, but seriously, a score of 8 for a magazine like GMR isn't anything out of the ordinary, which is perfectly fine if that was the intent with the score. If they hadn't used 8s so much across their previous reviews, then it probably wouldn't have been such a big deal.
A score of 8 for a place like Gamespot is pretty decent, though they don't use integers exclusively, which makes a lot of difference when a game gets an 8.1 or an 8.9.
In any case, for a game like Fable, people are expecting a GREAT game. They are not expecting an average or pretty good game. Anything less than a score that reflects that the game is a great game or that is close to great, will draw a lot of fire.
As I said before, I wish the people that have played the game would share their insight on it, other than the usual 'i've enjoyed playing fable' which could mean that they were amused by kicking a chicken, even though they thought the game was simply ok.
Oh, and btw, i want to be here when Gamespot crucifies Fable and gives it their trademarked 7.9 score.
IJoel said:
It is the readers' fault, for getting hung up on the word 'average'. It should be obvious to anyone who actually bothers to read those ratings keys that when '1=poor, 5=average, 10=great', 'average' in that context means 'unexceptional', neither particularly good or bad. It's an absolute scale, not some statistical mean that's calculated from the combined quality of all releases in a given time period. Unfortunately, there are people out there who are still too bloody literal-minded to get their heads around this.
True, but isn't everything about a review subjective. If you can't review a game on how much you enjoyed it, what's left? You can't possibly tell me if I'll enjoy the game. The best you can do is give me the "pros & cons" and give me the ability to make an informed decesion for myself. But, that's more for the review article and not the score.Disco Stu said:
And just to nitpick, I said "enjoyment," not "fun"... they are different.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Heh. Here I was just coming in to see how the www.ilovebees.com thing was going and I find this horribly twisted train-wreck of a thread... Entertaining, though. Great covers, IMO. Great score...I want to read the review now.
Tellaerin said:
No and yes. Games get way overrated these days. I do agree in the sense that it's an absolute scale and, well, perhaps it isn't really correct to assume most games should be average and thus have a 5.0 score. But when a significant number of games have a score of 8, it simply cheapens the value of it. Why? Because as games are released, standards simply change.
JJConrad said:
Yes, a lot of things in a review are subjective. But I can make a point/issue a criticism and back it up with evidence from the game in question.
For example, it's a fact that I can fight many battles in Van Helsing wherein the main character is on screen but the enemy is not. I can specifically reference the boss battles with the hunchback and Frankenstein's monster as parts in the game where players can simply fire blindly and whittle a foe's health down to zero without much effort.
Okay. Enjoyment. I receive no enjoyment exploring dark environments, bludgeoning monsters, and waiting to be creeped out or scared. But I can still recognize the artistry in Silent Hill -- the things it does with mood, pacing, and sound -- and grade the game accordingly.
Patrick Klepek
furiously molesting tim burton
you're all fucking batty insane. seriously.
Drinky Crow
Banned
I'm with eXxy on this. All y'all be fuckin' nuts.
BuddyChrist83 said:
best game to play if you have insomnia. works wonders every time.
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ScientificNinja
Member
chespace said:
So does Fable, I found
thats fantastic! easily one of the best games ever made!
chespace said:
you suck.
Mike Works
Member
It got an 8????
oh man i was going to buy it too
oh man i was going to buy it too
it is worth noting that, contrary to what has been said by the original (IGN) poster, i did not say that fable is "too hard" in my review. in fact, i was praising the difficulty for giving the player the chance to exercise the well-implemented magic system.Sysgen said:
which should remind everyone to take what was said about the review with a grain of salt until they actually read it themselves.
i need to save this paragraph and use it later, because i can never figure out how to say this quite so eloquently and succintly. thank you.Tellaerin said:
JackFrost2012
Banned
Matlock said:
Theory: if Halo 2 receives an 8, the GAF thread will reach 20 pages within 24 hours.
In other news EB suddenly has half its Fable pre-orders canceled.
This isn't good news. I'm sure they were hoping for the treatment of KotOR when GMR had the first of many perfect scores and got the net buzz going in the positive direction. And, then the whole manuver backfires...
This isn't good news. I'm sure they were hoping for the treatment of KotOR when GMR had the first of many perfect scores and got the net buzz going in the positive direction. And, then the whole manuver backfires...
JackFrost2012 said:
How many pages did the MK: DD thread get to before it was locked? 22-23? It will easily eclipse that, because you'll have every Nbot here putting their 2 cents in as well as the usual assortment of Xbots and general nay sayers. You're basically doubling the amount of idiocy in one thread, and I shudder to think of the consequences.
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