First look at ScarJo as the Major in Ghost in the Shell
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n00bsauce87
Member
So, yes you did take my comment out of context.
The point was to not have unknowns, per se, surrounding a top-tier A-lister, but to have an unknown Asian American actress (maybe known) surrounded by A-list stars willing to take a pay cut to not go over budget. All of these stars willing to do indie films to win awards oversees and you can't find one who would be willing to be involved with a project which budget clearly isn't that high. I can only see Takeshi getting the 2nd highest payday (his acting resume and awards calls for it) and the rest getting the crumbs.
From the looks of things, this movie company only got ScarJo (outside of talent and name recognition) was hope that she'll recoup all the money they are gonna pay her and the budget for production.
For their sake, I hope that the movie is good enough because you don't want to end up being accused of white washing on a shitty movie. Bad press will make them look worse.
There is a pattern of this. And this instance closely resembles the position Aloha was in.
Don't put a native Hawaiian as the main star, so will give them an actress with name recognition to help put people in the seats. The movie still bombed. Name recognition doesn't save movies from going bad, it just offers them a Razzies Award nomination and you don't want a Razzies Award Nomination
Hence:
When your direct competition is Hercules starring The Rock, you're going to have a good time domestically.
Aztechnology
Member
I've seen tboth and Chef which she was good in (Minor part). I wasn't trying to say she was bad, just a really bad casting choice for the character. She's not a "hard" enough actor for the role. She just doesn't come off in my mind as believable for the role. I think the studio just chose her for notoriety and attractiveness.]
I'm tired of that logic that audiences are idiots and will only see a movie if it has huge names attached. It can certainly help, but a good film with money invested elsewhere will create big buzz bring in people and forge careers. This is the type of movie you could do that with if you have good writers and a competent director.
no need for you to push back and then say what about the white people, really. "better" is relative as fuck, and if you recall the diversity of hollywood was kind of a thing this year...
ah, why lord why? its just a game board.
If we leave it up to their wallets to decide, then we'll have this conversation far into the future as we have in the past. I get deja vu because we were literally discussing this very topic last month with another movie.
Professor Renegade
Banned
I'll still see the movie, but I don't have high hopes. The Major better be a complete badass.
They would literally be insane.
but.
they are literally insane. so I guess it's still a guess.
I know this film has about a 5% chance of being decent, given writer and director, and I'm not even too bothered by the white washing (it's bad, but could still work decently)... But the look they went for, really doesn't inspire confidence.
She looks perfect to play an indie game developer or a bass player, but Motoko? I think some hair styles work 2d better than they do in live action, and you should adapt them accordingly.
Anyway, worst case scenario this will be a train wreck interesting to watch crumble.
She looks perfect to play an indie game developer or a bass player, but Motoko? I think some hair styles work 2d better than they do in live action, and you should adapt them accordingly.
Anyway, worst case scenario this will be a train wreck interesting to watch crumble.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
It won't be, but the number of people who say it doesn't matter if it is her name is crazy to me.
KonradLaw
Member
My point is - this is japanese story. To me in the end they're the people that get to have a definitive say in this. If there';s no outrage from them (and I haven't seen it, maybe I just wasn't looking in proper places) then I don't think there's any reason to start a ruckus. Anything else feels like americans wanting to boss around other cultures and telling them what should feel offensive to them. It just feels somehow wrong to me, even if it's caused by good intentions.
NullPointer
Member
DryEyeRelief
Member
oh my god you were actually serious
where do you place asian americans in all of this?
Systolique
Member
Here's an article that has way more in depth information if OP is still around to add it in the first post : https://business.facebook.com/notes/paramount-pictures/paramount-pictures-and-dreamworks-pictures-ghost-in-the-shell-is-in-production-i/10154147848862072
CASTING :
Takeshi Kitano : as Daisuke Aramaki
Juliette Binoche : as Dr. Ouelet
Michael Pitt : as Kuze
Pilou Asbæk : as Batou
Kaori Momoi : (not specified)
The members of Section 9 are played by :
Chin Han
Danusia Samal
Lasarus Ratuere
Yutaka Izumihara
Tawanda Manyimo
CASTING :
Takeshi Kitano : as Daisuke Aramaki
Juliette Binoche : as Dr. Ouelet
Michael Pitt : as Kuze
Pilou Asbæk : as Batou
Kaori Momoi : (not specified)
The members of Section 9 are played by :
Chin Han
Danusia Samal
Lasarus Ratuere
Yutaka Izumihara
Tawanda Manyimo
Zantetsuken
Member
Was there really no one else they could find?
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Do you think Bruce Lee being Chinese stops other non-chinese asians from looking up to him as a positive Asian role model? Do you think it is unfair for me as a Vietnamese person to want to see more Asian actors on the big screen of my local american movie theaters regardless of nationality?
Sumio Mondo
Member
Let's face it, Hollywood was never going to cast an Asian female in the lead. Ever. Anyway. Still better than casting Milla Jovovovovovovich in the roll, at least. I think this movie will end up being horrible though, looking at the creative leads.
Every time Hollywood goes for the doll look, it usually goes for the sexbot or cute doll look tho.
Her face is missing that "doll-like" aesthetic. Forget about the role being whitewashed. From the looks of that picture that is the least of their problems.
Motoko, at least in the 95 movie, has a robot look, but far from a sexy or cute one, despite the nudity.
One reason I'm not super convinced by the casting.
ScarJo has very soft face features.
Although she did play the creepy role well, in Under the Skin.
killertofu
Member
People who are complaining about ScarJo being white...
What? I mean, seriously. What did you expect? It's a Hollywood movie by a lame director. There's no love in this.
It's hard to complain about the white washing in Hollywood because its such a catch 22 situation.
You have a movie you want to make money on. You need the Hollywood hype so you cast a well known actor. The actor is white. Regardless of the quality of the movie, white actors swept up in the 'Hollywood Star' cycle which perpetuates throughout all blockbusters.
You want to encourage diversity in Hollywood? Go support indie films. People expecting them to cast a relatively unknown Asian actress in a blockbuster movie remind of the Regan/trick-down-economics meme.
What? I mean, seriously. What did you expect? It's a Hollywood movie by a lame director. There's no love in this.
It's hard to complain about the white washing in Hollywood because its such a catch 22 situation.
You have a movie you want to make money on. You need the Hollywood hype so you cast a well known actor. The actor is white. Regardless of the quality of the movie, white actors swept up in the 'Hollywood Star' cycle which perpetuates throughout all blockbusters.
You want to encourage diversity in Hollywood? Go support indie films. People expecting them to cast a relatively unknown Asian actress in a blockbuster movie remind of the Regan/trick-down-economics meme.
ScarJo's hair looks poofy
Wait Kuze? They're going with the Individual Eleven storyline from SAC? Interesting...
unholyrevenger72
Banned
guessing
Han - Togusa
Danusia - Gender bend Saito
Lasarus - Ishikawa
Izumihara - Pazu
Manyimo - Borma
KonradLaw
Member
To anchor the movie? Probably not. GITS isn't exactly a strong brand worldwide. And at the same time it's a brand that will be quite expensive to get right. In such enviorement producers will try to limit the risk of big investment, so they will try to anchor a star into a lead role. Unfortunatelly there are no asian female stars in Hollywood in the moment. They're just white and black ones.
Of course, then the problem is that how are you going to create any asian female stars if you won't give them chance to be cast in the first place. Previously when middle-sized movies were all rage you could have just cast there and once somebody got popular move her to first league. But these days middle sized movies are quickly dissapearing. So you're left with big budgeted megaproductions where people want to reduce risk and low budgeted movies that likely won't give stardom to their actors.
I think the good way to aproach improving diversity in this area would be to use franchises. Nobody goes to see Star Wars or comicbook movies for the actors. They go for the IP itself. So you can cast asians there without worrying it will affect the performance in the box office. And once you have blockbusters like those then the producers won't really have "it's risky to cast asian female in lead role" excuse anymore.
It's not like they have much choice anyway. With China growing as a movie market so fast it just doens't make sense to avoid casting asians. So there's reason for optimism.
DryEyeRelief
Member
how is that a catch-22 situation?
Systolique
Member
Well that's what I said in a post earlier, according to one of the writers who worked on the first scripts they were going to make an iteration from both the first movie and SAC.
And yes it's super interesting but pessimistGAF went ahead and said it was trash before they could review any substantial material so I guess it's not worth anyone's time.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I didn't expect anything out of the norm. Just because the practice is expected doesn't mean it should be accepted.
Keep your mouth shut and vote with your wallet isn't a good stance. Six Star Wars movies all with male protagonists and you get a first female protagonist played by a practically unknown actress to head the big billion dollar franchise revival. I wonder how that came about. People certainly didn't boycott the prequels out of protest for more diversity of sexes and races. Money talks, but talking is louder.
ScarJo's costume looks lame as hell compared to this.
Hopefully it's just a bad shot.
There's having a good time and then there's grossing $460m worldwide.
MHWilliams
Member
Alternatively, and let me float this by you, it's Asian-American audiences and actors who feel underrepresented and lament another missed opportunity to cast an Asian lead.
Perhaps, and this might be stretching things... it has absolutely nothing to do with native Japanese people at all and is mostly about Hollywood's relation to Asian actors and actresses.
You know how you create actors and actresses who can anchor movies? You actually give them a chance to act and star in films. Kind of hard for Asian actors of all stripes.
It's not a catch-22 if you're Hollywood and you create the Hollywood Star cycle.
Worse, you continually reinforce the cycle by casting actors who have proven multiple times to not be able to hold up a major Hollywood film. Jai Courtney, Sam Worthington, Taylor Kitsch have all gotten a ton of chances based on... what? It's certainly not star power. Chris Hemsworth has proven time and time again that his name means squat when it comes to headlining a film... but I bet you he'll still get roles. Emma Stone is a selling point? Didn't help Aloha and her biggest roles are in Spider-Man films, a voice acting role, and The Help, which is definitely down to premise, not her shining face. Does anyone really care about Gerard Butler? Certainly hasn't helped Gods of Egypt, who pulled its other headliners from Game of Thrones. And the main protagonist? Brenton Thwaites, who I'd guess you probably couldn't name another role he's been in.
It's a farce. Always has been.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
New Motoko is easy to adapt because she's wearing clothes.
Octavianus
Banned
Yeah how dare people express how they feel about this.
KonradLaw
Member
I empathize with asian americans for wanting to representation, but at the same time feel like in this particular case they're trying to stake ownership in something that's not theirs. I'm honestly conflicted about it and have no clue what to think anymore. I guess I will just shut up, since reading those tweets made me feel confused about my stance and I don't think I have much to contribute in this topic anymore.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Should only white females be able to look up to female icons who are white? And I'll ask again. Should only Chinese be able to look up to Bruce Lee?
It's a weird stance considering no one is forcing the Japanese studio to do anything.
That would already bastardizing the story. They need to be put into one country, politics and power struggles within a country are important.
The Elite
BOSS
You can have international politics and power struggles of equal weight. This movie isn't going to be a one-to-one translation of what the anime represents, that's obvious. They are going to take what they like and create something out of it with a western approach. They are not making a Japanese GitS film.
DryEyeRelief
Member
It's weird that you treat Asians as some sort of monolith.
You understand why whitewashing is bad on a conceptual level. You're just looking for a way to excuse it.
Systolique
Member
By the way they are shooting in New Zealand, it doesn't mean it won't be a recreation of Tokyo or any japanese city, but it also doesn't mean they will 100% follow the original location from the movie.
I understand that, but is it really so difficult to have it just set in the USA for example with a government group? If you going to change what Section 9 is and the themes they tackle, you might as well drop the GitS name. The Matrix did well, didn't it.
I rather have no adaptation than a shitty one.
The Elite
BOSS
I don't see why it matters if it is US based or international. Politics are politics. That seems like the least problematic issue with this film.
An important part of SAC was often the borders of the countries. Like killing scientists and other talented people who wanted to get into other countries with their expertise. Don't you think that would be odd with the UN?
killertofu
Member
Because it's a cycle thats hard to break.
Everyone always brings up Star Wars. But Star Wars is the biggest franchise in HISTORY. Disney could do whatever they wanted and it would have still have made a ton of money opening weekend. They were playing very hard at the nostalgia factor, showing real sets, showing Han, Leia and building a lot of good will toward the franchise that I think people were largely focused on that rather than seeing that they hired an unknown female actor. They built the movie as a stepping stone and as a way to pass the torch. It definitely helped that it was actually a good movie.
There were so many other factors in play that people flock to that excuse without realizing that situation can't apply to most movies.
People can express all they want, this is a forum. But people don't see the big picture nor the cogs that are involved in trying to make a franchise movie. Is Ghost in the Shell actively a mainstream phenomenon? I don't think so. And now people are clamoring for a Japanese actress to be the lead? Who, exactly? Rinko Kikuchi wasn't that great in Pacific Rim (and I loved Pacific Rim).
And let me segue into that movie because I think it kind of applies in this situation. PR was made by someone who's actually artistic, that loves the kaiju movies, someone who was willing to cast relative unknowns in the movie... and it didn't do that well domestically. Sure, word of mouth pushed it further...but again, I think the team around Ghost in the Shell is garbage. Again, this is a heartless cash grab.
The Elite
BOSS
You can still have an international organization deal with countries and borders. I don't see Section 9 being an international organization as a boundary for any sort of storytelling.
It's not that you can't tell any stories with this (although the logistics for a half-secret organisation that kills in all of the different sovereign states of the UN would be a logistical and political nightmare), but my point is: if you want to change that much, why bind yourself to this IP in the first place? Just do your own Sci-Fi world.
CGwizz
Member
Ofcourse people is complaining already about this...
America doing a movie based on a japanese cartoon, they get one american actress... like what is the big fucking deal ?
Internet always finding something to be outraged , to complain , to bitch and moan.
Dont like it dont fucking go see it no?
America doing a movie based on a japanese cartoon, they get one american actress... like what is the big fucking deal ?
Internet always finding something to be outraged , to complain , to bitch and moan.
Dont like it dont fucking go see it no?
MHWilliams
Member
And just to hit up the idea of a bankable star.
Here's a result from crunching the hard data.
http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/why-stars-dont-matter-gavin-polone.html
One could apply that thinking to you posting in this thread, you know.
Here's a result from crunching the hard data.
http://www.vulture.com/2012/07/why-stars-dont-matter-gavin-polone.html
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One could apply that thinking to you posting in this thread, you know.
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