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First PGR3 screen !

Of All Trades said:
You need to ask yourself why you want a background building to have ultra-complex detail in a racing game where the only thing you consistantly see is the car and the HUD. Something like Gears of War will have a lot of emphasis on heavy detail because you can stop and stare; most likely there will be tradeoffs somewhere else for that detail. Racing games, OTOH, need the detail to be focused on the car and what's directly in front of the car.
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When you're driving your car, do you focus on your hood?
 
Damn, I really set my sights WAYYYYY too high for the next gen. :\ This does look very nice, but it still feels like an enhanced XBOX game...
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Pretty much what I'm thinking. The buildings in the background still look flat the same way they do in this gen, and that people crowd is as funny looking as ever. Post some supersampled screens of PGR2 next to this, and it will look almost as good...

I really don't think my expectations are too high though. I want characters like a year old Nalu demo and the Unreal 3 engine games will look fine as long as they can be made to run at 60FPS
 
mrmyth said:
When you're playing a racer and you're in third, do you slow down to check the geometry on the trackside detail?
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No. I don't need to slow down in order to see that the buildings around me are flat. I wanted more depth in the surroundings...
 
mrmyth said:
When you're playing a racer and you're in third, do you slow down to check the geometry on the trackside detail?
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No, I stare at the other cars and pay no attention to where I'm driving.

The same thing applies to any genre. Would you not give a shit if next-gen fighters had backgrounds like Tobal No. 1?
 
Looks quite a bit like this real life location in paris :)
musee_guimet2.jpg
 
THAT was absolutely mind blowing and is exactly the type of thing I wanted to see from the next gen. I hope it does not turn out to be CG, though
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That video clearly has temporal motion blur in all those mass battle sequences. It's prerendered, and just doesn't look nearly as good as the real time screen from the game that was released.
 
demon said:
When you're driving your car, do you focus on your hood?
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No, I focus on the road in front of me. I don't focus for more than a second on the building whizzing by to the side of me.
No. I don't need to slow down in order to see that the buildings around me are flat. I wanted more depth in the surroundings...
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You're really focusing on the building depth during the, at most, 1/2 second it's in your field of view, instead of the more interesting geometric features, like the statue?
The same thing applies to any genre. Would you not give a shit if next-gen fighters had backgrounds like Tobal No. 1?
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Are the backgrounds whizzing by at 100 mph?
 
As I said, this generation will be heaven for doctored screens. When everyone has their expectations this high, any dev could easily put out CG and claim it's real-time, and no one would notice.

Sometimes I guess the difference would be marginal, but it's still a great way for them to add an extra layer of sheen to everything.
 
Marconelly said:
That video clearly has temporal motion blur in all those mass battle sequences. It's prerendered, and just doesn't look nearly as good as the real time screen from the game that was released.
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please clean your PM box.
 
bigNman said:
Looks real nice but they dont seem to be adding much to the gameplay. Here is what I mean.



That's just graphic improvement as well is it not?
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You read the interview?? Missed this bit??

So, unfortunately, you might not see as much as we would have liked for E3, as there just isn't enough time to get everything we would have wanted together and working in time. But hopefully there's enough to give a nice little taster of what the finished game is going to offer.
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And this entire paragraph??

It's changed quite dramatically, as our ambition for PGR 3 has always been to really drive forward the whole idea of style, speed, daring, and Kudos. The premise of this advance is to make sure that everyone is catered for, whatever their skill and however they want to race and progress. There are so many different ways that gamers want to take on a racing game that we needed to make sure that everyone can pick up and play the game, and enjoy it the way that they want, whatever their preferences.

PGR 2 was focused around car groups, as the player raced through one set of cars and then progressed onto the next group. The major change this time round is the game is split into unique championships—sets of themed events that the player will be able to race in any car he owns. He can complete the entire game in his favorite car, or choose a different car for every race—it's totally up to him. There's also much more choice over what sort of races the player wants to enter, based around different racing disciplines.

Ultimately, the player's main goal is still to reach the top rank. But in PGR 3, they can now do that however they wish—whatever their driving style—buying whatever cars they like and racing them in whatever championships they like along the way.

Obviously, the old favorite elements like Kudos and the Garage are still there, but with the whole experience now tuned to make PGR 3 a personal experience, however you want to race.
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what about this?

But if there was one particular feature to pick out, then that would be the Â… well Â… we can't talk about that yet! Let's just say it's a whole new way to play racing games! And we're not just talking about letting the A.I. do the driving for you!
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Good god you trolls need to take a time out
 
Macornelly, the buildings don't look flat, they have the balconeys and check out against the real pic. PGR2 looks good but that does have flat backgrounds. Really for a game that nowhere near finshed people are making ridiculous judgments.
 
demon said:
No, I stare at the other cars and pay no attention to where I'm driving.

The same thing applies to any genre. Would you not give a shit if next-gen fighters had backgrounds like Tobal No. 1?
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I've never passed a stage in a fighter going 70+ over the speed limit.

Given even that, if I've got time to look for low geometry in a game I'm playing, there's other issues with the game besides 'bad' graphics.
 
chespace said:
It seems folks equate next-gen with photo-realism more than anything else.

If you're not photo-realistic, you get skewered on GAF.
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I don't think that's an accurate assessment. I think people are reacting poorly to the games that don't demonstrate an appreciable improvement in levels of detail that can contribute to a significant enhancement of the game experience over what current gen hardware can provide. It doesn't matter if you're going for a photo-realistic style or a cel-shaded style or some other visual style because level of detail can be improved in any scenario. It's not just a matter of more polys, better textures, more abundant pixel shaders, its things like better animation, more non-character entities onscreen, more malleable/interactive environments, better atmospheric effects, etc. These don't have to be photorealistic to provide levels of detail that current gen consoles would be clearly incapable of by a long shot.

Look at the games that have gotten the most criticism. PD0 simply hasn't shown anything in stills or video yet that looks any better than Halo 2, and that's being generous. The leaked shots of DOA4 suggest only subtle improvements to the current DOA visual style. Even if they didn't really want to take DOA towards photorealism, there's still many things they could do to flesh out the details but they simply don't show in those pics. A clear indication of much more destructible environments that aren't based on scripted zones of destructability only, for example. Fights that kick up dust/grime/mud that affect character appearance - hair that can get disheveled during the course of a fight. Clothing that can actually be grabbed/ripped - you KNOW that would fit the DOA theme perfectly! Etc. It can all be done while adhering to the existing visual style of DOA and could be depicted in screenshots to provide a much appreciable improvement in levels of detail.
 
mrmyth said:
I've never passed a stage in a fighter going 70+ over the speed limit.

Given even that, if I've got time to look for low geometry in a game I'm playing, there's other issues with the game besides 'bad' graphics.
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That still doesn't mean that more realistic environments will have a much better visual impact while playing. One of the main reasons Rallisport 2 is so amazing looking--during gameplay--is because of the incredibly lush, organic, detailed environments. I sure appreciated that while playing, even though I wasn't focusing on the trees as I played.
 
It looks good but most of the environment detail has been faked with textures and the polygon models aren't perfectly smooth. Like most other Xbox 360 games it's not a huge step above current gen Xbox stuff.
 
demon said:
That still doesn't mean that more realistic environments will have a much better visual impact while playing. One of the main reasons Rallisport 2 is so amazing looking--during gameplay--is because of the incredibly lush, organic, detailed environments. I sure appreciated that while playing, even though I wasn't focusing on the trees as I played.
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On this I agree. But I think the difference is that most developers don't bother to model full buildings in city-based tracks. I'm not saying they should continue this practice, but I'd rather get better AI, higher framerates, and better physics first.
 
Katching all that is good and well, but what did GT 3 do better than GT1? Yep it looked better. As far as I can see PGR3 looks from that one screen mind substantially better that PGR2. As for gameplay know one has played any of the Xbox 360 games bar a handful of people for so all you know PDO may look cack but have the best physics engine ever that adds tons to an amazing gameplay advancement. All these game are months from launch so judging anything at the moment is meaningless, entertaining certaintly.
 
"See the MTV video , it's 60fps


No it was 30fps at most."


Could someone explain to me how a 24/30-fps video can tell you whether or not a game was running at 30 or 60fps?
 
Shrike_Priest said:
"See the MTV video , it's 60fps


No it was 30fps at most."


Could someone explain to me how a 24/30-fps video can tell you whether or not a game was running at 30 or 60fps?
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I don't believe it can, but don't stop them.
 
Shrike_Priest said:
"See the MTV video , it's 60fps


No it was 30fps at most."


Could someone explain to me how a 24/30-fps video can tell you whether or not a game was running at 30 or 60fps?
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You can't, they just like to piss on each other's legs.
 
People want window details in the background buildings, but also want the game within a reasonable time frame?

Not going to happen.

Time, money and human resources are limited even if the hardware capabilities aren't. Polys should be spent on the more important bits, but even in this case I can't honestly say that the background details are low poly or otherwise "cheap".

I honestly want to see some pictures of what people want out of next-gen, perhaps a screencap of a prerendered movie from a current-gen game?
 
Gek54 said:
No it was 30fps at most.
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No, it was 60fps and about the encoding of the video, yes you can see the diference
you know the GT4 looks like 60fps even in the trailers /rolleyes
 
Pug said:
Katching all that is good and well, but what did GT 3 do better than GT1? Yep it looked better. As far as I can see PGR3 looks from that one screen mind substantially better that PGR2. As for gameplay know one has played any of the Xbox 360 games bar a handful of people for so all you know PDO may look cack but have the best physics engine ever that adds tons to an amazing gameplay advancement. All these game are months from launch so judging anything at the moment is meaningless, entertaining certaintly.
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Sorry, Pug, I'm not actually commenting on PGR3 in any way. I'm responding directly to the phenomenon chespace is claiming to observe - that people are simply demanding photorealism of next gen, or else. I don't think that's the case, as explained.

As for all these games being months from launch...yes, I know. That doesn't mean we should assume that the kind of detail some of these games are lacking now will be added by the time these games reach release.
 
With a few exceptions like NBA 2K6, the Xbox 360 footage isn't a complete departure from an Xbox level of quality, but it certainly is a generation up from PS2, where most people would've started in the last cycle. PS2 visuals don't have much believability in motion with a jarring degree of shimmer swimming across surfaces from its broken MIP-mapping, textures losing their coherency not far from the viewpoint from low filtering quality, image degradation cropping up from field rendering or screen tearing or lower resolutions or dithering in some titles, and a lack of high standard for proscan support. The at-least-moderate bump in image quality that Xbox 360 will display with some FSAA, high color, better sampling and high resolutions will allow for much more solid worlds.
 
Good god you trolls need to take a time out
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Sorry, I didnt read that part. My eyes are so tired today I jumped the gun and couldn't be bothered reading the rest. That part just jumped out at me as I thought the first thing out his mouth would be improved physics or something.
 
Lazy8s said:
With a few exceptions like NBA 2K6, the Xbox 360 footage isn't a complete departure from an Xbox level of quality, but it certainly is a generation up from PS2, where most people would've started in the last cycle. PS2 visuals don't have much believability in motion with a jarring degree of shimmer swimming across surfaces from its broken MIP-mapping, textures losing their coherency not far from the viewpoint from low filtering quality, image degradation cropping up from field rendering or screen tearing or lower resolutions or dithering in some titles, and a lack of high standard for proscan support. The at-least-moderate bump in image quality that Xbox 360 will display with some FSAA, high color, better sampling and high resolutions will allow for much more solid worlds.
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Now, this has to be a first: trolling present-gen systems in a next-gen console/game topic. :D


Well, first for this year, at least. ;)
 
Lazy8s said:
With a few exceptions like NBA 2K6, the Xbox 360 footage isn't a complete departure from an Xbox level of quality, but it certainly is a generation up from PS2, where most people would've started in the last cycle. PS2 visuals don't have much believability in motion with a jarring degree of shimmer swimming across surfaces from its broken MIP-mapping, textures losing their coherency not far from the viewpoint from low filtering quality, image degradation cropping up from field rendering or screen tearing or lower resolutions or dithering in some titles, and a lack of high standard for proscan support. The at-least-moderate bump in image quality that Xbox 360 will display with some FSAA, high color, better sampling and high resolutions will allow for much more solid worlds.
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most demos shown so far have been artist concepts (even that GR3 clip).. no AI, physics..etc for the box to work over. The NBA2k6 demo also only has 1 character. No crowd, no other player. No physics interaction. I think the real gauge of console power is the playable demo and well, the only one we got was PDZ :lol. Wait and see... lets see how all these hold up when it comes to gametime.
 
chespace said:
It seems folks equate next-gen with photo-realism more than anything else.

If you're not photo-realistic, you get skewered on GAF.
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I think it depends upon the type of game it is more than anything. In a racer, damn skippy I want photorealism. Shit, what am I talking about- I want VR. :D

If it's a stylized piece, artsy fartsy type stuff, I'll settle for this:

the_incredibles.jpg



:D
 
i honestly dont see how anything MORE powerful could be any better. I'm sure if need be they could have constructed the buildings with more polys to eliminate the window textures but come on. what else could you POSSIBLY improve upon?
 
"Originally Posted by dark10x:
Damn, I really set my sights WAYYYYY too high for the next gen. :\ This does look very nice, but it still feels like an enhanced XBOX game "

YOU ARE COLOR BLIND!
 
nitewulf said:
i hope some of you realize that,
creating detailed art assets = man hours = $$$.
but i don't think many of you do.
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Well, for my part, I understand it takes dinero to make the wheels turn. I have no delusions that what I want videogames to look like means that is what they will look like. :)

OTOH, I think that as game development tools improve, you will see a corresponding increase in quality, and less cost in the long term. For instance, look at the benchmark that Massive set with the LOTR trilogy. I'm sure that anyone who licenses their technology will pay a shitload right now; but as time elapses, the tools will improve even more and the costs will go down as a result because of economies of scale and competition.

I guess what I'm getting at, in my own obtuse manner, is that you used to see ABS and airbags only in Mercedes. Now you find those features in Fords, Chevy's, and Hyundai's-everyday cars.
 
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