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First PGR3 teaser image?
- Thread starter Blimblim
- Start date
OG_Original Gamer
Member
I believe the first pic realtime, PGR2 wowed me when it released. You put another 30 thousand polygons into the car model, high resolution textures, some pixel shader lighting, I remember reading some article or pdf about ray tracing being faked using pixel shaders.
go freak, im sure the crowd is 2d, in fact its obvious. hence there is no way this is a CG render.
mr. klaw, exactly. im sure there are multitudes of ways faked self reflections could be achieved. i dont see what is the issue, the next gen consoles will have monster cpus (notice the plural) or hardware units to do the matrix calculations.
mr. klaw, exactly. im sure there are multitudes of ways faked self reflections could be achieved. i dont see what is the issue, the next gen consoles will have monster cpus (notice the plural) or hardware units to do the matrix calculations.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
nitewulf said:
i took the second shot at the new york auto show 2 weeks ago. gregory, im wondering if you think the real car looks plasticky as well? perhaps we should call up ferrari and ask them to modify their rendering engine?
Your post kind of confirms for me that the first pic is realtime. Another thing I'd like to mention is that most games that will be shown on May 12th and after will be displayed at HD resolutions. I think this may be the reason for Allard touting this HDera, your getting a totaly different image compared to what regular televisions can display. The difference should be drool inducing for the average Joe.
nitewulf said:
i took the second shot at the new york auto show 2 weeks ago. gregory, im wondering if you think the real car looks plasticky as well? perhaps we should call up ferrari and ask them to modify their rendering engine?
I don`t know if it`s the colours, reflections or/and lighting that makes it look fake, but it doesn`t have the real look like this Enthusia car does for example.
Maybe it`s just better art? Anyway, that`s the kind of look I want in my racers.
OG_Original Gamer
Member
Odnetnin said:
Thats his left arm, the shadow would stood be there as a 2d image.
lol now common guys. Im all for great graphix but even if we'r to pass the first off as real-time (and it IS a render IMO x 10), surely everyone can agree that the second is a real picture of an enzo ferrari! you guys are in for a huge let down if you think next gen will look ANYTHING like the second picture in a game setting (not photo mode ala gt4). Photorealistic =/ next gen. 
In fact, Ill go so far as to say that even in something like photomode, the latter picture would not be possible in near real-time rendering. The lighting, shadows... 2 good to be real...cause they are 
In fact, Ill go so far as to say that even in something like photomode, the latter picture would not be possible in near real-time rendering. The lighting, shadows... 2 good to be real...cause they are this car doesnt look real. you want dull lighting in your racing games. fine by me. but dont tell me that looks real.Gregory said:I don`t know if it`s the colours, reflections or/and lighting that makes it look fake, but it doesn`t have the real look like this Enthusia car does for example.
Maybe it`s just better art? Anyway, that`s the kind of look I want in my racers.
Fight for Freeform said:
if you do 3d. You can tell.
nitewulf said:
nitewulf. why would they do that? Those people aren't that low poly. 3000k+ is pretty substantial to get those models up.
http://store.got3d.com/products/cg-peeps-low-polygon-3d-people-models-buy/
- they'd look like that to be a rough approximate. I expect this to be a frame from the CG intro or from the ad campaign which this is).
Gregory: That's because the artists did a great job on the texture of the car. That's about it.
The reflections look quite poor.
As far as the first pic goes, I think you're failing to realize that the time of day is somewhat dark, and the near end of the car is being lit by stadium lights, the color of which would be a bit artificial looking.
Again though, I see the first as clearly as CG and the second as a photo, there are too many tell-tale signs pointing to that conclusion. But I will say that I expect next gen to be quite near to that.
The reflections look quite poor.
As far as the first pic goes, I think you're failing to realize that the time of day is somewhat dark, and the near end of the car is being lit by stadium lights, the color of which would be a bit artificial looking.
Again though, I see the first as clearly as CG and the second as a photo, there are too many tell-tale signs pointing to that conclusion. But I will say that I expect next gen to be quite near to that.
the machines can do upwards of 500 millions of polys/sec guys...
also take a look at my comparison shots, then ask yourself if the first shot looks photorealistic.
*shakes head and goes looking for naked pictures of vida guerra*
it's faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from being photorealistic, hence why it would be real time. the second shot is obviously an actual photo.
also take a look at my comparison shots, then ask yourself if the first shot looks photorealistic.
*shakes head and goes looking for naked pictures of vida guerra*
My point is that it could have been rendered in 3D, but someone took a pic of it and slapped it there. For example, people make skyboxes out of 3D renders, or the crowds in the 2K series, looked a lot like these guys.
So it could be 2D for all we know really. Though I think the arguement is pointless since it is CG. It wouldn't make sense for them to convert it to a flat image, unless for some weird reason they want to save rendering time or something.
txb popped it open in a hex editor.. seems to be for a magazine cover
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8028/Project-Gotham-Racing-3-Spotted-at-OurColonyNet/
of course its also interesting they chose a Ferrari F360..
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8028/Project-Gotham-Racing-3-Spotted-at-OurColonyNet/
of course its also interesting they chose a Ferrari F360..
eso76
Member
you guys are right, self reflection could be achieved with all sort of 'cheap' tricks (notice there some in all concave parts though) but however cheap for the cpu, they'd have to be drawn 'manually' either replicating the grill-whatever or in some other way...
I mean, there's no 'cheap' way to achieve that kind of accuracy 'automatically' in-engine, that would require the modelers to be extremely anal and do that 'by hand', but multiply that for all concave parts of *all* cars in the game...i doubt Bizarre are going that far.
I think it's more likely we'll see cars reflect each other next gen (all they have to do is include toned down models of the cars in the 'scene' that's going to be used for cube mapping, quite "doable") but that wouldn't work that well either, since driving games only calculate cube mapping for one car and replicate it for the others (notice how according to reflections, cars all pass under a bridge at the same time, no matter where they are) and i doubt that will change next gen, it would be a huge waste of resources.
I mean, there's no 'cheap' way to achieve that kind of accuracy 'automatically' in-engine, that would require the modelers to be extremely anal and do that 'by hand', but multiply that for all concave parts of *all* cars in the game...i doubt Bizarre are going that far.
I think it's more likely we'll see cars reflect each other next gen (all they have to do is include toned down models of the cars in the 'scene' that's going to be used for cube mapping, quite "doable") but that wouldn't work that well either, since driving games only calculate cube mapping for one car and replicate it for the others (notice how according to reflections, cars all pass under a bridge at the same time, no matter where they are) and i doubt that will change next gen, it would be a huge waste of resources.
Project Midway
Member
That car looks like plastic. Maybe you just like the art, not realistic look?Gregory said:I don`t know if it`s the colours, reflections or/and lighting that makes it look fake, but it doesn`t have the real look like this Enthusia car does for example.
Maybe it`s just better art? Anyway, that`s the kind of look I want in my racers.
golem said:txb popped it open in a hex editor.. seems to be for a magazine cover
http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8028/Project-Gotham-Racing-3-Spotted-at-OurColonyNet/
of course its also interesting they chose a Ferrari F360..
heh, yeah. Pretty funny nobody picked up on this until now.
also, they could just do the reflection for specific parts of the car or modes...may be you could just see it on replays where it owuld be noticeable, as opposed to during gameplay. other shortcuts, default generic reflections for similar looking grills, bumpers etc. they dont have to model it car by car.
all of this is speculation anyway. but i thought i had lowered expectations. looks like quite a few of you might be impressed afterall.
all of this is speculation anyway. but i thought i had lowered expectations. looks like quite a few of you might be impressed afterall.
Project Midway
Member
yeah. There's something in that "matte" surface of that subaru that makes it look like a "toy". IMO.Gregory said:
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It takes so little to turn such a simple thread into a... well... this.
That the crowd in the first pic may be 2D or use 2D elements doesn't mean it can't be prerendered.
But anyway, the hex editor output says "render" and "touched up" so at the very least we know it's not a pure screen grab.
Also, I'm still surprised so many people think the pic I posted was a photo. It doesn't look like a photo at all to me, but I guess I'm in the minority.
But anyway, the hex editor output says "render" and "touched up" so at the very least we know it's not a pure screen grab.
Also, I'm still surprised so many people think the pic I posted was a photo. It doesn't look like a photo at all to me, but I guess I'm in the minority.
Odentnin: I took that into account, but it could still be captured. Especially if you take the pic of the people with the bg rendered at teh same time. Everything illuminates each other, and you've captured it.
Well, what I'm trying to do for my game (MOD) is to create the whole level (a downtown landscape) in CG taking into account that everything will reflect and light each other up, and then capturing textures by taking pictures of each cg building and popping them in the game.
The end result is a level that looks like the original CG, but that is without any dynamic lighting and ambient lighting up. And you end up with a buttload of textures, as it's all textures really. I'm trying to find a good balance between everything.
Well, what I'm trying to do for my game (MOD) is to create the whole level (a downtown landscape) in CG taking into account that everything will reflect and light each other up, and then capturing textures by taking pictures of each cg building and popping them in the game.
The end result is a level that looks like the original CG, but that is without any dynamic lighting and ambient lighting up. And you end up with a buttload of textures, as it's all textures really. I'm trying to find a good balance between everything.
Oh and btw, what I'm trying has probably been done before...I'm always late to the party regarding trying new things.
I honestly though I invented IBL until I found out that there were papers written about it since 97. Seriously though, my idea regarding IBL isn't exactly what most people think of it. I should patent it or something.
I honestly though I invented IBL until I found out that there were papers written about it since 97. Seriously though, my idea regarding IBL isn't exactly what most people think of it. I should patent it or something.
Blimblim said:
I may be totally Jaded, but I fully believe that's a real shot and at the same time don't see it looking much better than current gen car stuff sans the lighting. The people in the background look like FMV/2d stills just like GT4 people. Tell me everyone in the background is fully 3d and being rendered real-time and then I'll be impressed, otherwise I'm still waiting for the first OMGWTF next-gen pic.
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
Wow, some of you guys are going into the next gen thinking that it will barely be a small step up from the current one, i think many jaws will drop at E3.
I think both of them are definitely real-time
I think both of them are definitely real-time
Shrike_Priest
Member
Next gen screens are gonna be hell.
With everything so close to renders, it's going to be nigh impossible to tell the difference between a legit high-res screen and a render in many cases.
Gah....
With everything so close to renders, it's going to be nigh impossible to tell the difference between a legit high-res screen and a render in many cases.
Gah....
If this is the leap to next gen and it is what we are to expect from in game graphics then surely we are close to the end of progression in terms of graphics looking like real life.
As much as I would like to think this is an ingame shot I will be waiting with baited breath. I can still remember the renders floating around for G-Police for the PSone and then the renders for PS2. When I see a game running with my own eyes (or even a direct feed video online), then I will be a believer. Till then it is all a pipe dream, but a good one at that.
As much as I would like to think this is an ingame shot I will be waiting with baited breath. I can still remember the renders floating around for G-Police for the PSone and then the renders for PS2. When I see a game running with my own eyes (or even a direct feed video online), then I will be a believer. Till then it is all a pipe dream, but a good one at that.
Gen X said:
There are 2 issues here. 1) Racing games always are one of the most photorealistic-looking genres and aren't reflective of how games look generally. 2) As games get better and better looking, our eyes will demand more. We'll notice flaws we didn't notice before, or couldn't have imagined before. I remember seeing Rogue Leader on Gamecube and thinking "game graphics can't get much better than this". But things move on and you again realise, that yes, they can get (much) better. Remember how people reacted when the first PS2 demos were shown? When you look back at them now, they just don't seem as impressive at all. As gamers, we'll notice really tiny things, though it is arguable if "casual" eyes will be as well trained... Anyway, I think the best illustration of this is when you look at the best in movie CG - which games are very far from - to me, anyway, I still see a lot of room for improvement in movie CG, so obviously game CG has even further to go.
Doom_Bringer
Banned
that looks very very good!