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First western journalist given access to ISIS returns, here are his impressions

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Denton

Member
https://www.facebook.com/JuergenTodenhoefer/timeline

Proper translation:

Here is a summary of my 7 strongest impressions of ISIS:

1.) THE WEST IS DRAMATICALLY UNDERESTIMATING THE THREAT EMANATING FROM ISIS, and ISIS’ fighters are much more intelligent and dangerous than our politicians realize. The Islamic State is drenched in almost infectious enthusiasm and confident of victory – something I have never before experienced in a warzone. More importantly, the ISIS fighters are convinced that their totalitarian faith and demonstrative brutality will help them move mountains. In Mosul, less than 400 ISIS fighters routed many as 25,000 Iraqi soldiers and militias despite their ultra-modern equipment. Within months, the ISIS has conquered a territory larger than Great Britain and dwarfed Al Qaeda.

Occasional losses or changes of terrain don’t seem to concern ISIS in any way. While some media outlets tend to exaggerate those events, ISIS considers them as normal in guerilla warfare.

2.) THE INFLUX OF NEW FIGHTERS JOINING ISIS IS GROWING DAILY. I spent two days in an ISIS reception camp close to the Turkish border. On both days, more than 50 fighters from all over the world arrived. In fact, not all of them were young men who had failed in their home countries. Contrary to common belief, there were many successful and enthusiastic young people from countries like the USA, England, Sweden, Russia, France and Germany. One of them had recently passed his state examination in law and been admitted to the court as a lawyer. Yet, he preferred to fight for the “Islamic State”.

3.) AS FAR AS I CAN TELL FROM 10 DAYS OF OBSERVATION, THE “ISLAMIC STATE” SEEMS TO FUNCTION AS WELL AS ANY OTHER TOTALITARIAN COUNTRY IN THIS REGION. This is particularly true in terms of internal security and social welfare; while many things differ greatly from our – or particularly my – ideas on how such institutions should be run, they do exist. The Sunni population living in the Iraqi part of the Islamic State seems to now have accepted the new state without further resistance, preferring it to the discrimination and oppression they had previously suffered from the Maliki regime in Bagdad. However, after all of the Christians, Shiites and Yazidis have fled the city, and after countless executions, they are now the only religious group inhabiting Mosul.

4.) ISIS ISN’T JUST AIMING AT CONQUERING THE MIDDLE EAST AND, EVENTUALLY, THE REST OF THE WORLD. RATHER, THEY WANT THE LARGEST “RELIGOUS CLEANSING” IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. With the exception of the so-called “religions of the book” – that is, ISIS’ version of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity – ISIS wants to kill non-believers and apostates and enslave their women and children. This means that all of the Shiites, Yazidis, Hindus, Atheists and Polytheists are supposed to die, and that hundreds of millions of people would be eliminated in the course of this “ethnic cleansing”.

Additionally, all of the moderate Muslims approving of democracy are supposed to be killed, as they – from ISIS’ point of view – put human laws above God’s laws. Upon successful conquest of the West, this would also apply to democratically-minded Muslims here.

A non-believer’s only chance to escape death are voluntary repentance and voluntary conversion to “true Islam” which, allegedly, is represented by ISIS only. He or she must do so before their country is conquered.

ISIS does tolerate Jews and Christians. Though, they have to pay a fixed protection tax of several hundred dollars per year. Muslims would have to pay the zakat (Islamic tax), which may be higher for wealthy Muslims and lower for poor Muslims.

It needs not be said that ISIS and I disagreed in all of these points, and that I clearly expressed my opposition numerous times.

5.) IN MY OPINION, ISIS IS A 1-PERCENT MOVEMENT WITH THE EFFECT OF A TSUNAMI. The movement preaches a type of Islam that is being rejected by 99 percent of the world’s 1.6 billion-strong Muslim population. Being a Christian who has read the Quran several times, I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could consider ISIS’ doctrine compatible with Islam. In fact, my lecture of the Quran has made me see Islam as a religion of compassion. 113 out of 114 suras start with the following words: “In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.” Yet, I haven’t perceived ISIS as particularly merciful.

6.) ISIS CANNOT BE DEFEATED WITH BOMBS OR MISSILES. The three-million-city Mosul, for instance, is being controlled by 5,000 ISIS fighters. Whoever wants to eliminate them with bombs would have to first turn all of Mosul into rubble and kill thousands of civilians. Bombarding the Middle East has always been and still is a way to breed terrorism. Take ISIS as an example! This organization is a direct result of George W. Bush’s illegal Iraq War.

THE MODERATE SUNNI ARABS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN STOP ISIS, NOT THE WEST. That’s exactly what the Sunnis did 2007. Back then, they chased away the “Islamic State in Iraq” (ISI) – the predecessor of ISIS, which was much weaker than today’s ISIS.

However, the moderate Iraqi Sunni would only oppose ISIS if they were allowed to completely re-integrate into Iraqi society, from which the Americans and the Iraqi Shiites had excluded them after the US’ 2003 invasion of Iraq. It doesn’t currently look like things are going to change anytime soon. Yet, this is the only conceivable solution to stop ISIS.

There also exist solutions for Syria. Though, the West would need to correct its utterly unrealistic view of the situation. They have truly gotten on the wrong track in Syria.

7.) THERE IS A LOT OF GUESSING ABOUT THE TERRORIST THREAT EMANATING FROM RETURNING ISIS FIGHTERS. I cannot rule out that there may indeed exist a threat. But due to the Islamic State considering those returnees as losers that failed in their life in the Islamic State, they may, in fact, not present a major risk. Although Brussels did suffer an attack from a returnee, sympathizers of ISIS who have not yet left the country might present a larger threat.

Germany, as well as the rest of the world, must neither trivialize nor exaggerate the terrorist threat. In Germany, for instance, no German has ever been killed by an Islamist while, on the other hand, many Muslims were killed by German right wing extremists. Extremist movements like Germany’s PEGIDA are misrepresenting the facts. And in doing so, they are unwittingly playing into the hands of the ISIS. The Islamic movement has stated numerous times that escalations between Muslims and Non-Muslims in Germany and other countries of the West are in its interest.

I firmly believe that ISIS currently is the largest threat to world peace since the Cold War. We are now paying the price for George W. Bush’s act of near-unparalleled folly; the invasion of Iraq. To date, the West remains clueless as to how this threat is to be addressed.



Yours, JT
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.

Also, all moderate Muslims who affirm democracy should be killed.

The hell?

Jews and Christians should be tolerated as religions of the book

Oh well that makes it better.


1.) THE WEST UNDER ESTIMATE THE DIMENSION OF RISK IS DRAMATICALLY. The IS-fighters are much smarter and more dangerous than accept our politicians. In the 'Islamic state' there is an almost noise-like enthusiasm and confidence in victory, as I have never experienced in war zones.

There is no amount of zeal that can overcome the difference in military training and hardware that the west has compared to ISIS/ISIL.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Be interesting to see a better translation but the nature of his access casts a pall on its accuracy.
 
What have they accomplished? They have taken over territory in a nation rife with civil war and taken over territory in a nation where the soldiers ran away at the first sign of trouble.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
That's sorta in the actual book though. It's strange that ISIS decided to actually read that part of the Koran and ignore the other 99% of it.

The issue at hand is the genocide and murder they want to enact on other religious groups and moderate Muslims.

It's not surprising that they are selectively interpreting the religion they profess to follow however. It's pretty standard behavior for extreme right wing groups.
 

Dinokill

Member
4.) OBJECTIVE IS NOT ONLY THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND ONE DAY THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THE GREATEST 'RELIGIOUS CLEANSING' IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The IS will with the exception of the so-called religions of the book - that is, the "IS-Islam", Judaism and Christianity - kill all unbelievers and apostates and enslave their women and children. All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.


This is some Nazy-type shit. Holy fuck!!!
 

MMaRsu

Member
Fucking hell cant we just kill all these ignorant backwards thinking morons? Fuck it lets just invade their countries or something and weed the fuckers out. This is horrible stuff.
 

Khrno

Member
HAZARD IS FIGHTER would make a good band name.

461785729-456375.jpg
 

Purkake4

Banned
There is no amount of zeal that can overcome the difference in military training and hardware that the west has compared to ISIS/ISIL.
ISIS is just a symptom of regional problems that run much deeper, you won't end these problems with superior firepower.
 

Yamauchi

Banned
Mosul is nearly encircled. They'll eventually suffer the same fate as Ansar Dine, though the cost to all sides will be much higher.
 

neorej

ERMYGERD!
Sounds like they are in dire need of some ammo. I'm sure we can spare some bombers to deliver a couple of MOABs.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
they'll have trouble taking it to the next level.

Look at hitler, he got the people behind him by fixing shit first and then saying "SEE IT WAS THE JEWS" later, when it was too late to say 'uhhh, fuck dude....'

these guys try to kill people into joining em. you have to be more scared of the persuasive ones.
 

Nikodemos

Member
ISIS is just a symptom of regional problems that run much deeper, you won't end these problems with superior firepower.
Actually, you can. It's called the Ghengis Khan method, after the guy who first successfully implemented it. Only problem is, it has a few... drawbacks.
 

Casimir

Unconfirmed Member
ISIS is just a symptom of regional problems that run much deeper, you won't end these problems with superior firepower.

Yes, but it will be an integral part especially in this stage when ISIS controls a literal state. Reforms of the Iraqi government will not solve the immediate threat of IS, but they are needed to prevent a resurgence when the Islamic state has been ended.
 
ISIS is just a symptom of regional problems that run much deeper, you won't end these problems with superior firepower.

Trying to use superior firepower will just cause more civilian casualties. Force just makes guerilla warfare worse.



I don't read too much but this article had me seriously questioning my reading comprehension abilities.
 
4.) OBJECTIVE IS NOT ONLY THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND ONE DAY THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THE GREATEST 'RELIGIOUS CLEANSING' IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The IS will with the exception of the so-called religions of the book - that is, the "IS-Islam", Judaism and Christianity - kill all unbelievers and apostates and enslave their women and children. All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.


This is some Nazy-type shit. Holy fuck!!!

Holy Shit! They really are cartoon super-villains! We really need to eradicate these monsters. What surprises me most that people from Western nations have joined up with them? What the hell! These guys are against everything Western including your precious iPhone's idiots!

Let's see them take on an army from a first world country, then we'll see how tough they can talk.

Time for DARPA and Kojima to unleash all those Gecko's and FROG's they have been working on. Or at least those tiny wall climbing drones
 

ICKE

Banned
Holy Shit! They really are cartoon super-villains! We really need to eradicate these monsters. What surprises me most that people from Western nations have joined up with them? What the hell! These guys are against everything Western including your precious iPhone's idiots!

That's the whole point. A lot of people want to vomit out our materialism and values in general, and build a more pure society that provides for the people. It is not exactly a new concept for those who are disenfranchised.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Actually, you can. It's called the Ghengis Khan method, after the guy who first successfully implemented it. Only problem is, it has a few... drawbacks.
Please, do elaborate on this method of yours.

Yes, but it will be an integral part especially in this stage when ISIS controls a literal state. Reforms of the Iraqi government will not solve the immediate threat of IS, but they are needed to prevent a resurgence when the Islamic state has been ended.
Obviously the already established ISIS won't go away on its own. However, the problems that allowed it to rise in the first place (including local support, disenfranchised groups and failed/weak states) need a bit more than just reforms of the Iraqi government. The latter certainly wouldn't hurt though.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Out of curiosity, what would you suggest be done to deal with ISIS?
Whatever the global community is willing to do. My point is that to stop this kind of shit in the future you need sustainable solutions in the region including populations feeling ownership of their governments and countries.
 

Zalusithix

Member
4.) OBJECTIVE IS NOT ONLY THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND ONE DAY THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THE GREATEST 'RELIGIOUS CLEANSING' IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The IS will with the exception of the so-called religions of the book - that is, the "IS-Islam", Judaism and Christianity - kill all unbelievers and apostates and enslave their women and children. All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.


This is some Nazi-type shit. Holy fuck!!!

Kind of amusing really. I'm fairly sure Russia and the US would sooner deliver the world into a nuclear winter than capitulate to an ISIS takeover. Probably one of the only cases where human extinction via nukes is the more humane option.
 

Lucumo

Member
Kind of amusing really. I'm fairly sure Russia and the US would sooner deliver the world into a nuclear winter than capitulate to an ISIS takeover. Probably one of the only cases where human extinction via nukes is the more humane option.

Why? Three religious groups are perfectly fine.
 

Mrmartel

Banned
I'm a Christian, so i'll survive then!? .... or should say, all I have to pay is taxes? Easy, I do that out the ass already. What's with the dislike with Hindu's and other non-book type religions?
 
IS won't grow from its current size, they have Iran to the east, Turkey to the north, Hezbollah to the west, Israel to the southwest and Saudi Arabia at south. The only way to grow is to the north, to the Caucasus but they have found a roadblock in the kurds. They will be contained in the extension of territory they control at present.
 

Lucumo

Member
I'm a Christian, so i'll survive then!? .... or should say, all I have to pay is taxes? Easy, I do that out the ass already. What's with the dislike with Hindu's and other non-book type religions?

You aren't going to become a slave as Christian.

/edit: Meh, you edited it.
 
So much for the argument that these people are fighting for Islam

4.) OBJECTIVE IS NOT ONLY THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND ONE DAY THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THE GREATEST 'RELIGIOUS CLEANSING' IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The IS will with the exception of the so-called religions of the book - that is, the "IS-Islam", Judaism and Christianity - kill all unbelievers and apostates and enslave their women and children. All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.

Also, all moderate Muslims who affirm democracy should be killed. Because they are so from the perspective of IS provide human laws above the laws of God. This is true - after a successful conquest - even for the democratically-minded Muslims in the Western world.

The only chance for these 'infidels', to escape death, consists in voluntary repentance and voluntary conversion to 'true Islam'. The supposedly only the IS represents. And while their countries are not only conquered.

Jews and Christians should be tolerated as religions of the book, but have to pay a fixed tax protection of a few hundred dollars a year. Muslims have to pay the Zakatsteuer, the higher may be lower in poor Muslims among wealthy Muslims.


Who is left? 30.000 people in the world as per their wishes? wtf

Also isnt it contradictory for them to say Kill all Disbelievers then say Jews and Christians can live as long as they pay our taxes. wtf

Oh wait, they also say Moderate Muslims are on a level lower than Christians and Jews so IS Islam, Christians and Jews can live but moderate muslims should die..WTFFFF
 

Mrmartel

Banned
So much for the argument that these people are fighting for Islam




Who is left? 30.000 people in the world as per their wishes? wtf

I'd say about half of the population currently on the Earth. So yes, an atrocity unlike anything seen before


Edit: Hey we all agree they're Evil, but they ain't stupid. Somebody's gotta pay taxes! and to fund giant Monuments of their glorious battles against the Hindu's and Atheists or something
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
OBJECTIVE IS NOT ONLY THE CONQUEST OF THE MIDDLE EAST AND ONE DAY THE REST OF THE WORLD, BUT THE GREATEST 'RELIGIOUS CLEANSING' IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. The IS will with the exception of the so-called religions of the book - that is, the "IS-Islam", Judaism and Christianity - kill all unbelievers and apostates and enslave their women and children. All Shiites, Yazidi, Hindus, atheists and polytheists shall die. Hundreds of millions of people to be eliminated in the course of this religious 'cleansing'.
Wow...we really need to do something about this, they're batshit insane.
 
3.) THE 'ISLAMIC STATE' SEEMS - SO FAR AS I'M THE AFTER 10 DAYS MAY ASSESS - HOW TO OTHER COUNTRIES OF THE REGION AS A totalitarian STATE TO WORK. This is especially true in the area of internal security and the social services sector - even if much does not meet our western and certainly not my idea. At least the Sunni population of Iraq's part of the 'Islamic State' seems the new state now resistance to accept. Because they prefer it to the previously prevailing discrimination and oppression by the Maliki regime in Baghdad. However, living in Mosul to escape all Christians, Shiites and Yazidis and countless executions only Sunnis.

Can someone help me with this?
 

Zalusithix

Member
They have to pay higher taxes but they could live without problems. That definitely beats complete extinction by nukes.

If you think they'd truly live without problems, I have a bridge to sell you. They'd tolerate them until they could eradicate them for some minor reason. I also don't see them letting any homosexuals live regardless of their religion. Likewise, I don't see them allowing females to have any rights, ever. They'll kill any Muslims that agree with capitalism, so I assume they'll do the same to the other religions while they're at it.
 

wildfire

Banned
There is no amount of zeal that can overcome the difference in military training and hardware that the west has compared to ISIS/ISIL.

That's not the point. The point is that people should stop acting surprised they are an organized army and stop pretending they are rag tag terrorists. That said I still don't see them on the same level of Iran. If they were the entire region + India and Egypt would be seriously fucked.
 
That's not the point. The point is that people should stop acting surprised they are an organized army and stop pretending they are rag tag terrorists. That said I still don't see them on the same level of Iran. If they were the entire region + India and Egypt would be seriously fucked.

so you are saying they are on the same level as the Afghan Army......it only takes one major invasion and the only thing cleansed will be the blood of the 30.000 ISIS fighters as any barely competent force will roll them over like dice
 

Ogimachi

Member
I'm a Christian, so i'll survive then!? .... or should say, all I have to pay is taxes? Easy, I do that out the ass already. What's with the dislike with Hindu's and other non-book type religions?
Not necessarily. If you resist, they'll behead/torture/crucify/ you like they're doing in Syria.
The dislike is due to their hate towards polytheism, which is the absolute worst sin in islam.
 
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