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First western journalist given access to ISIS returns, here are his impressions

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liger05

Member
A turkish army or Iranian army in a full battle will destroy ISIS in an actual ground and air assault. realistically I don't think ISIS fighters stand a chance against half an invasion

Iran won't simply because regardless of how Sunnis may feel about IS no regime in the region could support a Shia army fighting Sunni's.

IS are not looking to invade Turkey and even though Turkey have aided the Kurds they have no desire to getting involved in a war when they don't need too.
 
You seem to be forgetting IS in Libya, Nigeria and Yemen. The aim isn't just to expand from the territories in the Middle East but to get bayah from those already in the Magrib, Caucasus etc etc.

Oh yes is true, I forgot that, right now is a popularity contest between them and Al Qaeda, and IS is winning with results, maybe for that reason is the push in recent days of propaganda for Al Nusra showing them attacking Syrian bases.



Thanks for the links, I have been reading them, still the US bombardments changed IS strategies on the ground, they no longer could use their columns of 50+ vehicles to push troops into Kobane neither Anbar, so their "blitzkrieg" have been slowed a lot, without US air attacks they would have reduced Kobane to ruins with heavy fire (one of the articles in the links talks about the uselessness of tanks in little streets, however IS does the same as the Syrian Army, they send tanks to blow every house or building where they suspect there are enemies) but all their artillery spots were attacked and their heavy armor vehicles destroyed by the US, so they didn't send anymore reinforcements since it will be a waste of valuable material.

IS isn't the spetsnaz, I know, however they have all the military expertise from former Baathist officials, best example is Baiji where a little destacament have been holding the iraqui army and shia militias for weeks.
 

liger05

Member
Oh yes is true, I forgot that, right now is a popularity contest between them and Al Qaeda, and IS is winning with results, maybe for that reason is the push in recent days of propaganda for Al Nusra showing them attacking Syrian bases.




Thanks for the links, I have been reading them, still the US bombardments changed IS strategies on the ground, they no longer could use their columns of 50+ vehicles to push troops into Kobane neither Anbar, so their "blitzkrieg" have been slowed a lot, without US air attacks they would have reduced Kobane to ruins with heavy fire (one of the articles in the links talks about the uselessness of tanks in little streets, however IS does the same as the Syrian Army, they send tanks to blow every house or building where they suspect there are enemies) but all their artillery spots were attacked and their heavy armor vehicles destroyed by the US, so they didn't send anymore reinforcements since it will be a waste of valuable material.

IS isn't the spetsnaz, I know, however they have all the military expertise from former Baathist officials, best example is Baiji where a little destacament have been holding the iraqui army and shia militias for weeks.

Plus Nusra is attacking anyone and any group that refuses to fight IS. Nusra are basically doing what they accused IS of and making Takfir on those that want to avoid any in fighting.
 
A turkish army or Iranian army in a full battle will destroy ISIS in an actual ground and air assault. realistically I don't think ISIS fighters stand a chance against half an invasion

I would like to see IS facing a competent army, however they have been smart avoiding that, the only battles they have hold with the syrian army have been in Raqqa and Deir Ez-Zor, wich are far away from Damascus and Latakia and only could receive reinforcements from air.

Plus Nusra is attacking anyone and any group that refuses to fight IS. Nusra are basically doing what they accused IS of and making Takfir on those that want to avoid any in fighting.

Yes a just saw a video where Al Nusra militants make call on IS to not make the Revolution fail because of in-fighting.

Edit. I found it, at min. 10:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQ57_VfSa2U
 

dan2026

Member
This journalist must of had balls the size of Manhattan.
This is like walking through a cage of hungry tigers. With machine guns.
 

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
A turkish army or Iranian army in a full battle will destroy ISIS in an actual ground and air assault. realistically I don't think ISIS fighters stand a chance against half an invasion

oh and about Nigeria vs Boko Haram

It's 2014 - everything is about guerrilla and land control, not field battles.
 
i just find it funny that it's the atheists, hindus and other religions that are getting the death sentence from ISIS. what did they ever to do them?

like i know islam, christianity and judaism are closely intertwined in the books, but hasn't all of islams holy wars been against christianity and judaism. i.e. the crusades, whats happening in israel now, etc?
 

Valhelm

contribute something
really?... i mean REALLY??

you see absolutely no difference at all between the two??

They're very similar. Both are motivated by ideology to kill people unlike them and have grand and impossible plans for world conquest. The Nazis were just better-organized.

i just find it funny that it's the atheists, hindus and other religions that are getting the death sentence from ISIS. what did they ever to do them?

like i know islam, christianity and judaism are closely intertwined in the books, but hasn't all of islams holy wars been against christianity and judaism. i.e. the crusades, whats happening in israel now, etc?

The historical relationship between Islam and Hinduism is just as violent as Islam and Christianity or Judaism, if not more so.
 
i just find it funny that it's the atheists, hindus and other religions that are getting the death sentence from ISIS. what did they ever to do them?

like i know islam, christianity and judaism are closely intertwined in the books, but hasn't all of islams holy wars been against christianity and judaism. i.e. the crusades, whats happening in israel now, etc?

you are trying to find logic where none exists
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
really?... i mean REALLY??

you see absolutely no difference at all between the two??
Assuming the Google translation is accurate, IS wants to commit genocide on groups that fall outside of their narrow definition of what is acceptable to be. The nazis were about racial "purity", IS is about religious "purity", but outside of that, I fail to see a significant difference from a moral/ideology point of view, except that IS seems far more misogynistic.

They're very similar. Both are motivated by ideology to kill people unlike them and have grand and impossible plans for world conquest. The Nazis were just better-organized.
This.
 

kyser73

Member
So much for the argument that these people are fighting for Islam




Who is left? 30.000 people in the world as per their wishes? wtf

Also isnt it contradictory for them to say Kill all Disbelievers then say Jews and Christians can live as long as they pay our taxes. wtf

Oh wait, they also say Moderate Muslims are on a level lower than Christians and Jews so IS Islam, Christians and Jews can live but moderate muslims should die..WTFFFF

If they view moderate Muslims as apostate, they are worse than non-believers - a non-believer can at least be shown and bought to salvation, and Jews & Christians are just Muslims who haven't completed their journey - whereas someone seen as apostate is seen to have rejected Islam, and therefore cannot be redeemed.

I'm actually amazed to read this - they want to recreate a medieval Caliphate and lead an actual, full-scale jihad to a global scale.

This isn't going to be solely won with firepower, and it certainly won't be won by fannying around with air strikes. This is going to require a deeper understanding of Islam than has so far been shown by any government or society in the West, and an acceptance of our quite generally appalling meddling in the region - from the Crusades to Israel/Palestine, the Iran/Iraq war, right up through Afghanistan and the last was in Iraq.

It's also not one the 'West' - even a 'West' with a strong coalition of Islamic states - will necessarily win.

I would also suggest that the main difference between ISIL/ISIS and the Nazis is that while the Nazi's thought - and some might even have believed - they had some mystical destiny loosely based in Northern European mythology, these guys believe they are carrying out the work, and Word, of God. Its one thing to stand up to a largely secular state and be accused of a crime, it is another thing altogether to commit a sin.
 

wildfire

Banned
The OP needs to be updated. He did a proper translation on his website.

http://juergentodenhoefer.de/seven-impressions-of-a-difficult-journey/?lang=en

Here is a summary of my 7 strongest impressions of ISIS:

1.) THE WEST IS DRAMATICALLY UNDERESTIMATING THE THREAT EMANATING FROM ISIS, and ISIS’ fighters are much more intelligent and dangerous than our politicians realize. The Islamic State is drenched in almost infectious enthusiasm and confident of victory – something I have never before experienced in a warzone. More importantly, the ISIS fighters are convinced that their totalitarian faith and demonstrative brutality will help them move mountains. In Mosul, less than 400 ISIS fighters routed many as 25,000 Iraqi soldiers and militias despite their ultra-modern equipment. Within months, the ISIS has conquered a territory larger than Great Britain and dwarfed Al Qaeda.

Occasional losses or changes of terrain don’t seem to concern ISIS in any way. While some media outlets tend to exaggerate those events, ISIS considers them as normal in guerilla warfare.

2.) THE INFLUX OF NEW FIGHTERS JOINING ISIS IS GROWING DAILY. I spent two days in an ISIS reception camp close to the Turkish border. On both days, more than 50 fighters from all over the world arrived. In fact, not all of them were young men who had failed in their home countries. Contrary to common belief, there were many successful and enthusiastic young people from countries like the USA, England, Sweden, Russia, France and Germany. One of them had recently passed his state examination in law and been admitted to the court as a lawyer. Yet, he preferred to fight for the “Islamic State”.

3.) AS FAR AS I CAN TELL FROM 10 DAYS OF OBSERVATION, THE “ISLAMIC STATE” SEEMS TO FUNCTION AS WELL AS ANY OTHER TOTALITARIAN COUNTRY IN THIS REGION. This is particularly true in terms of internal security and social welfare; while many things differ greatly from our – or particularly my – ideas on how such institutions should be run, they do exist. The Sunni population living in the Iraqi part of the Islamic State seems to now have accepted the new state without further resistance, preferring it to the discrimination and oppression they had previously suffered from the Maliki regime in Bagdad. However, after all of the Christians, Shiites and Yazidis have fled the city, and after countless executions, they are now the only religious group inhabiting Mosul.

4.) ISIS ISN’T JUST AIMING AT CONQUERING THE MIDDLE EAST AND, EVENTUALLY, THE REST OF THE WORLD. RATHER, THEY WANT THE LARGEST “RELIGOUS CLEANSING” IN THE HISTORY OF MANKIND. With the exception of the so-called “religions of the book” – that is, ISIS’ version of Islam, Judaism, and Christianity – ISIS wants to kill non-believers and apostates and enslave their women and children. This means that all of the Shiites, Yazidis, Hindus, Atheists and Polytheists are supposed to die, and that hundreds of millions of people would be eliminated in the course of this “ethnic cleansing”.

Additionally, all of the moderate Muslims approving of democracy are supposed to be killed, as they – from ISIS’ point of view – put human laws above God’s laws. Upon successful conquest of the West, this would also apply to democratically-minded Muslims here.

A non-believer’s only chance to escape death are voluntary repentance and voluntary conversion to “true Islam” which, allegedly, is represented by ISIS only. He or she must do so before their country is conquered.

ISIS does tolerate Jews and Christians. Though, they have to pay a fixed protection tax of several hundred dollars per year. Muslims would have to pay the zakat (Islamic tax), which may be higher for wealthy Muslims and lower for poor Muslims.

It needs not be said that ISIS and I disagreed in all of these points, and that I clearly expressed my opposition numerous times.

5.) IN MY OPINION, ISIS IS A 1-PERCENT MOVEMENT WITH THE EFFECT OF A TSUNAMI. The movement preaches a type of Islam that is being rejected by 99 percent of the world’s 1.6 billion-strong Muslim population. Being a Christian who has read the Quran several times, I can’t wrap my head around how anyone could consider ISIS’ doctrine compatible with Islam. In fact, my lecture of the Quran has made me see Islam as a religion of compassion. 113 out of 114 suras start with the following words: “In the name of Allah, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.” Yet, I haven’t perceived ISIS as particularly merciful.

6.) ISIS CANNOT BE DEFEATED WITH BOMBS OR MISSILES. The three-million-city Mosul, for instance, is being controlled by 5,000 ISIS fighters. Whoever wants to eliminate them with bombs would have to first turn all of Mosul into rubble and kill thousands of civilians. Bombarding the Middle East has always been and still is a way to breed terrorism. Take ISIS as an example! This organization is a direct result of George W. Bush’s illegal Iraq War.

THE MODERATE SUNNI ARABS ARE THE ONLY ONES WHO CAN STOP ISIS, NOT THE WEST. That’s exactly what the Sunnis did 2007. Back then, they chased away the “Islamic State in Iraq” (ISI) – the predecessor of ISIS, which was much weaker than today’s ISIS.

However, the moderate Iraqi Sunni would only oppose ISIS if they were allowed to completely re-integrate into Iraqi society, from which the Americans and the Iraqi Shiites had excluded them after the US’ 2003 invasion of Iraq. It doesn’t currently look like things are going to change anytime soon. Yet, this is the only conceivable solution to stop ISIS.

There also exist solutions for Syria. Though, the West would need to correct its utterly unrealistic view of the situation. They have truly gotten on the wrong track in Syria.

7.) THERE IS A LOT OF GUESSING ABOUT THE TERRORIST THREAT EMANATING FROM RETURNING ISIS FIGHTERS. I cannot rule out that there may indeed exist a threat. But due to the Islamic State considering those returnees as losers that failed in their life in the Islamic State, they may, in fact, not present a major risk. Although Brussels did suffer an attack from a returnee, sympathizers of ISIS who have not yet left the country might present a larger threat.

Germany, as well as the rest of the world, must neither trivialize nor exaggerate the terrorist threat. In Germany, for instance, no German has ever been killed by an Islamist while, on the other hand, many Muslims were killed by German right wing extremists. Extremist movements like Germany’s PEGIDA are misrepresenting the facts. And in doing so, they are unwittingly playing into the hands of the ISIS. The Islamic movement has stated numerous times that escalations between Muslims and Non-Muslims in Germany and other countries of the West are in its interest.

I firmly believe that ISIS currently is the largest threat to world peace since the Cold War. We are now paying the price for George W. Bush’s act of near-unparalleled folly; the invasion of Iraq. To date, the West remains clueless as to how this threat is to be addressed.



Yours, JT
 

liger05

Member
The OP needs to be updated. He did a proper translation on his website.

http://juergentodenhoefer.de/seven-impressions-of-a-difficult-journey/?lang=en

Occasional losses or changes of terrain don’t seem to concern ISIS in any way. While some media outlets tend to exaggerate those events, ISIS considers them as normal in guerilla warfare.

This. The media overplays such events massively. While in reality the morale of IS doesn't seem to be effected by battles lost and they return to fight another day.
 

Mrmartel

Banned
I was talking to a friend (a muslim) today about this story. I was particularly interested in ISIS views towards non-book religious beliefs. He doesn't think ISIS would even allow Atheists, Buddhists, Hindu's etc to convert (just murder or enslave). Such is the hatred for polytheism and complete non-belief. Is polytheism mentioned by Muhammad? Why the extreme dislike of these religions (or lack there-of)? compared to the relatively more benign view towards Christians and Jews that allows them to live, work and practice their respective religions(in relative peace, with the addition of taxes)?
 

JordanN

Banned
Their talk of genocide is certainly the most alarming part. Luckily, the same groups they want to go after are heavily militarized, so they'll never be able to wipe them all out (i.e India).

But it could mean they start pulling off terrorist attacks to get their message across. That's something the world would need to stamp out immediately.
 

JordanN

Banned
I was talking to a friend (a muslim) today about this story. I was particularly interested in ISIS views towards non-book religious beliefs. He doesn't think ISIS would even allow Atheists, Buddhists, Hindu's etc to convert (just murder or enslave). Such is the hatred for polytheism and complete non-belief. Is polytheism mentioned by Muhammad? Why the extreme dislike of these religions (or lack there-of)? compared to the relatively more benign view towards Christians and Jews that allows them to live, work and practice their respective religions(in relative peace, with the addition of taxes)?

Well, the bible has a huge emphasis on Monotheism. Abraham was said to have "smashed idols" and later founded Judaism. There are also many stories in the bible where I think the Israelites went to war and wiped out other tribes who worshiped many gods.

The hate for atheism is likely because it's in complete conflict with the religion. God is declared a fact in the bible/koran/torah, and he's always commanding his followers to listen to him on the basis of being supreme/perfect. Any amount of skepticism is basically saying "god is wrong or doesn't exist" which is a threat in their eyes.

By the way, I am an atheist. I'm just reciting what I learned/know of the Abrahamic religions.
 

liger05

Member
I was talking to a friend (a muslim) today about this story. I was particularly interested in ISIS views towards non-book religious beliefs. He doesn't think ISIS would even allow Atheists, Buddhists, Hindu's etc to convert (just murder or enslave). Such is the hatred for polytheism and complete non-belief. Is polytheism mentioned by Muhammad? Why the extreme dislike of these religions (or lack there-of)? compared to the relatively more benign view towards Christians and Jews that allows them to live, work and practice their respective religions(in relative peace, with the addition of taxes)?

Anyone can convert to Islam regardless of what there belief is and it would be accepted.

Polytheism is seen as shirk in Islam. Shirk would include worshipping more than one God or associating partners with Allah in worship. Major shirk like that is seen as unforgivable.

Now this shirk is also applicable to Muslims. A Muslim for instance who worships at graves or follows those who claim to see the unseen or those who give and take life would be seen as participating in shirk.
 

le.phat

Member
Fucking hell cant we just kill all these ignorant backwards thinking morons? Fuck it lets just invade their countries or something and weed the fuckers out. This is horrible stuff.

This is the third time in a couple days that i've read some really poorly thought-out brainfarts from you, have you considered twitter ?
 

Lubricus

Member
The Arabs came out of the Arabian peninsula in the 600's and beat everyone- the Byzantine army, the Persians, and the Huns. They didn't kill everyone.
ISIS has got some serious problems-probably arising from too many negative stimuli while toilet training.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
It's early days yet, wait a couple of years until war fatigue sets in.
If you are truly faithful all this will do is make you more radical.
When your life stops being about yourself and rather self sacrifice for a higher power your ability to withstand mental suffering becomes insane.
As a devoted little Catholic I was there. Every blow just strenghtening my resolve. Each emotional scar merely something to be expected for standing up for your faith.

Sometimes, when I hear people talk about being Christian and being all huff-puff I still get angry. There is nothing in the teachings about bragging and all about sacrifice and humbleness. And those people don't feel like someone who will try and shoulder the worlds weight even it crushes them.

Religion man. Fuck it.
I still like Buddhism and many of it's practises. Of course, the ultra right are still Nazis.
 

akira28

Member
i just find it funny that it's the atheists, hindus and other religions that are getting the death sentence from ISIS. what did they ever to do them?

like i know islam, christianity and judaism are closely intertwined in the books, but hasn't all of islams holy wars been against christianity and judaism. i.e. the crusades, whats happening in israel now, etc?

yeah but they cant officially say "fuck christianity and judaism" because the Koran says both of those faiths are legitimate, since Islam is of the same lineage.

I'm sure they'd like to kill us all, but its against regulations. They can still make our lives hell though.
 

Jacobi

Banned
Has the western world ever actively intervened because of genocide? Can't remember a single case... Pol Pot could do his thing, Mao could do his thing, the Kim family...

I'd love to be proven wrong...
 
Funny you should ask - yes. Yes I do.

While on the surface, the idea of avowed new atheist, his blonde curls and glasses coated in sand, the lapel of his polyester waistcoat and his battleworn fedora stained with powder residue as he runs from door to door engaging in vicious hand-to-hand street battles is an absurd one, I maintain that the archetype has many commonalities with your typical Is foreign fighter. For instance, he is young, invariably male, alienated from the society around him, has a bull-headed and uncompromising belief in the rightness of his opinions as well as the inevitability of victory and regards members of the female gender with some suspicion.

As a joke, it works on multiple levels, though it is, I admit, only tangentially related to the topic at hand. It was a throwaway comment that I'm honestly surprised anyone responded to, so thank you.

What are you? The fucking Architect from the Matrix?

EDIT...got my cahracter wrong.
 
just glad he made it back. I don't think I learned anything from that which we couldn't have guessed. Yes, they're determined and "believe they will win". Yes, they want to kill lots of people. Yes, bombs won't kill ideals.

Not sure if it was worth risking his life and leaving his family fatherless to "uncover".
 

BokehKing

Banned
Sorry, I'm not worried unless we have some Hitler/SS/Nazi regime taking over all of Europe, feeling themselves so much they start practicing the Occult and summoning demons to do their bidding.


Push come to shove we would burn these people and make their lands more inhabitable than they already are.
 

Jacobi

Banned
just glad he made it back. I don't think I learned anything from that which we couldn't have guessed. Yes, they're determined and "believe they will win". Yes, they want to kill lots of people. Yes, bombs won't kill ideals.

Not sure if it was worth risking his life and leaving his family fatherless to "uncover".
He is writing a book. This was just a quick summary I think...
 

samar11

Member
Iran won't simply because regardless of how Sunnis may feel about IS no regime in the region could support a Shia army fighting Sunni's.

IS are not looking to invade Turkey and even though Turkey have aided the Kurds they have no desire to getting involved in a war when they don't need too.

Since when did Iran care about what the Sunni's support/care what they do? If they have to, they will dude.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
Yeah I messed up. Calling the region the Middle East makes me forget that majority of the region is Asia :X

No worries. I didn't realize that the Middle East was technically in Asia until high school. Culturally, Western Asia has lots more in common with Europe and North Africa than it does with Thailand or Japan.
 

liger05

Member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30596474

The Jordanian military has confirmed that one of its planes has crashed over northern Syria and that its pilot has been captured by Islamic State (IS).

The jihadist group earlier said it had shot down the jet with a heat-seeking missile near the city of Raqqa.

It published photographs showing the pilot, whom it identified as Flight Lieutenant Moaz Youssef al-Kasasbeh.

This is the first US-led coalition aircraft to be lost on IS territory since air strikes began in September.

Jordan is one of four Arab countries whose aircraft have been flying sorties over Syria.

'Heat-seeking missile'

On Wednesday morning, the UK-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, said it had received reports from its network of activists that IS members had taken "an Arab pilot prisoner after shooting his plane down with an anti-aircraft missile near the city of Raqqa".

Photo from Raqqa Media Centre purportedly showing Jordanian Armed Forces ID card belonging to Flight Lieutenant Moaz Youssef al-Kasasbeh A photo of the Jordanian military ID card belonging to the captured pilot was also published
The pro-IS Raqqa Media Center also posted a photo on its Facebook page showing armed men taking the pilot out of what appeared to be a lake or river.

The man appeared able to stand but was bleeding from the mouth. He was wearing only a white T-shirt and was soaking wet.

A caption identified him as Lt Kasasbeh and later a photo appearing to show his military ID card was published.

Lt Kasasbeh's father, Youssef al-Kasasbeh, confirmed his son's plane had crashed in Syria in an interview with the Jordanian newspaper, Saraya.


Analysis: Jonathan Marcus, BBC defence correspondent

We do not know yet if the Jordanian aircraft suffered an engine failure or other technical problem, or if it was actually downed by IS air defences.

IS has been assumed to have a limited air defence capability - based not least on the sorts of shoulder-fired missiles that are rife in the region.

IS fighters have downed Iraqi and Syrian government aircraft and helicopters in the past. We also know that IS has overrun a number of Syrian air defence bases.

It is not clear if IS has personnel capable of operating any of these more sophisticated Soviet or Russian-supplied systems.

The US-led coalition permanently monitors the nature of the air defence threat and if the Jordanian aircraft was shot down then any potential lessons will be fed into the ongoing air campaign.


Youssef al-Kasasbeh said he found out the news after the head of the RJAF informed another of his sons.

Lt Kasasbeh has been a pilot in the RJAF for six years and had only visited their home last Sunday, he said.

He appealed to IS leaders: "May Allah plant mercy in your hearts and may you release my son."

The air forces of Jordan, the US, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Bahrain have carried out hundreds of air strikes on IS in Syria in the past three months.
 

sakipon

Member
Has the western world ever actively intervened because of genocide? Can't remember a single case... Pol Pot could do his thing, Mao could do his thing, the Kim family...

I'd love to be proven wrong...

Did those guys threaten the lives of Westerners? ISIS has been pretty open with their hate for the West, especially Americans. Some have already lost their heads and there will be more Western victims. It's very different to for example North Korea doing things to their own people.
 

Joni

Member
Did those guys threaten the lives of Westerners? ISIS has been pretty open with their hate for the West, especially Americans. Some have already lost their heads and there will be more Western victims. It's very different to for example North Korea doing things to their own people.
They are not killing those Americans because they hate Americans. They're killing them because the United States of America and its 52th State the United Kingdom don't negotiate with terrorists. They have been more than happy to release any prisoners they have from other countries after receiving payment.
 
Has the western world ever actively intervened because of genocide? Can't remember a single case... Pol Pot could do his thing, Mao could do his thing, the Kim family...

I'd love to be proven wrong...
The NATO sorta did during the balkan war, when the serbs tried to get rid of all muslims in bosnia herzegovina.
 

Violet_0

Banned
Read the German text and can't shake off the feeling Todenhöfer is kinda promoting IS.

honestly that was my impression as well. Not so much promoting them as making them out to be something bigger than what they really are. In conventional warfare they'll never be a threat to anyone outside of Iraq/Syria. Egypt, Turkey, Iran and Israel all could erase them from this planet
 
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