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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Lol, don't talk like that. If you saw me in person it would make sense. I'm 5 foot 8 with a 30 inch inseam. I'm incredibly stocky. Which makes sense since I'm from German and Scottish decent.
But yeah, that's the other option I was toying with. I was thinking of finding washers/chains or weights online.
Nope, I just made sure to get enough protein after every workout. It also depends on your goals, if you want to gain weight while doing this, it's going to be very tough. And obviously, couldn't eat much before a muay thai training session.
Are you still gaining weight, or rather, gaining muscle? I was stuck around that weight forever since I tried to do 3x5 and not eat enough to get bigger. I switched it to Bill Starr's 5x5 method as well and that has helped my lifting a lot. We'll see how much longer I can do linear progression as I approach my goal weight.
Jason's Ultimatum
Member
Doing one-arm kettlebell chest presses while lying on the floor was interesting. My hands kept shaking.
I'm still gaining weight (though 2 weeks off going away for the holidays has thrown things off) though slowly. I'm up to 205 (for a guy who spent most of his life between 140 and 155, that's huge) but it's hard to judge the ratio of muscle to fat given the time off and eating a bit crappy during it. I'll probably re-assess things come next month if I don't see more results.
I don't know if it is quite time to change programs, though I have been on SS for 6 months now.
Boozeroony
Member
A question: I've been training in the gym 5 days a week for 6 months now and I've become quite buffed, without any supplementals. I just want to be a bit more toned, reduce my fat% without gaining more muscle. Currently I train alternately chest, triceps, shoulder, abs and upper/lower back, legs, biceps, abs. I also do 20 min cardio.
Any tips to improve my routine?
Any tips to improve my routine?
kevo_huevo
Member
gonna focus on losing body fat and upping my cardio/training for a 5k for the next couple of months. i was looking to do a push/pull type split twice a week:
Push -
Bench: 1x8, 4x5
Squat 4x6
Standing BB OHP 3x6
Dips 2x20
I also try to do 6-10 pullups after each set of bench/squat/ohp
Pull -
Deadlift :1x8, 1x6, 3x4 upping weight each set
Pendlay Rows: 4x5
Standing BB Curl 3x6
Max chin ups after each set of dls and rows
cardio m/w/th/sat
lift tues/fri
I think my "pull" day might be lacking. Any advice or critique?
Push -
Bench: 1x8, 4x5
Squat 4x6
Standing BB OHP 3x6
Dips 2x20
I also try to do 6-10 pullups after each set of bench/squat/ohp
Pull -
Deadlift :1x8, 1x6, 3x4 upping weight each set
Pendlay Rows: 4x5
Standing BB Curl 3x6
Max chin ups after each set of dls and rows
cardio m/w/th/sat
lift tues/fri
I think my "pull" day might be lacking. Any advice or critique?
Are you still squating everyday since you're on SS? You just might be getting to a point where the weights you're lifting requires more rest. If you really want to stay on SS for a bit longer, I would try to squat every other day instead if you're not already doing that.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Just ordered two 1 1/4 plates and two 2 1/2 plates off of amazon.
Now I can micro load AND not have to hunt for the only two sets of 2.5 plates in the fucking gym.
Now I can micro load AND not have to hunt for the only two sets of 2.5 plates in the fucking gym.
I just checked back to his last posts and I understand what deadbeef means. I didn't get in on the Sunday drama, but I pretty much agree with deadbeef on everything there. Oddly enough RevDm's upset post is sandwiched between HarryHengst and Mr. City dropping some sensible advice and another of RevDm post that was taking things pretty well. I would have gone about it a different way, but to each their own. That time has passed.
In the meantime, check out How To Build Pure Strength on T-Nation. It's a basic primer of 5/3/1.
You could even do 5/3/1 and microload, should you so choose (and now that you have your new plates). I have a feeling you'll be waiting until your gains wane a little more before you're willing to make the switch, though. Just a hunch.
Sounds like you got some stretching to do. Have you been very active in your life?
I currently squat every day still. Removing them from a day would leave me not doing much on that day though, but I don't want to go adding stuff randomly. Specifically I'm doing the beginner routin in the OP, and if I took them out of day 2, I'd only be doing OHP and Power Cleans, along with some ab work. Though I must admit my quads were still killing me when I went to do squats yesterday, and that was after 2 days off.
I'm not opposed to changing routines if it will help me, I just don't want to shortchange myself with the benefits of SS, and my Bench, OHP, and Deads continue to improve, my Squat just seemed to improve faster (I squats 285 3x5, and only deadlift 320), so maybe that's why, I dunno.
Seriously? I feel like my gym has way too many of the damn things!
Anton Sugar
Member
5/3/1 is a great "slow burn" program and sounds like it would be good for you. If you can get multiple sets of 300+, yeah, you're far into intermediate/advanced levels and should probably be benching once a week, or if you're benching twice a week, you'd probably want to do a light/heavy (or dynamic/max effort) split.
I've made GREAT progress on 5/3/1 before, but be prepared to invest a good 4-6 months in it, at least.
Are you wearing a belt?
No, as a beginner I didn't think there was any reason to do so yet. That's what I thougt I gathered from discussions here.
parrotbeak
Member
What's it mean to train for endurance test? I guess I see daily work as more of an endurance training, as opposed to strength training where muscles are hypertrophied and need recovery, but maybe I am using "endurance" wrong, or it's just not within that dichotomy.
Is McGill on Facebook? I never thought to look.
I am a terribly lazy person. I have too much going on in my life to dedicate myself to the minutae of muscle groups and exercises and tempos and rest times and blah blah blah. So when I found 5/3/1 (or rather it's precursor, an e-book Wendler called 3DAY which was basically several different ways of organizing your workout so you only worked out 3 days a week - something very different than the standard Westside protocol of Max Effort (ME) squat, ME bench, Dynamic Effort (DE) squat and DE bench, four days per week) I really fell in love with its simplicity.
I've been using it or some variation thereof 90% of the time since late 2008 probably.
I had a slight relapse when I went on Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 around the time I divorced, but quickly snapped out of that thank goodness. Now when I want to lose some weight, I just adjust my diet and assistance exercises, but keep trucking with 531 protocols.
I also experimented with some of Brooks Kubik's Dinosaur Training protocols - heavy singles, sandbag work, squats from the bottom, etc. I feel that for getting me over the hump of being comfortable with weights much heavier than 315 lbs on my back, that Dino Training did the best job. So I might recommend to you to try some rack lockouts and bench press from the bottom to push you over any hurdles you might be coming up against.
That's about the only suggestion I have, because I don't have a very good bench at all, so I can't really speak from experience about weights as heavy as you are talking.
I find that deadlifting and squatting once per week is plenty for me. I don't think that the 531 protocol has really helped my bench the same though. That may be because my bench was lagging so far behind that it really wasn't intermediate.
But like I said at the beginning, I'm a terribly lazy person, and so I just stick with 531. It's easy because I can precalculate an entire 4 weeks of workouts automatically. I don't keep up with my assistance exercise weights and I only notionally keep up with my calculated rep max. So I'm able to keep 4 weeks worth of workouts on 1 little notepage of my iPhone. It has worked really well the past 2 years.
I just do the big lift that day, and then do assistance. I don't even really think about it anymore.
For upperbody assistance I do barbell bench, facepulls, db rows, barbell rows, triceps extension, pushdowns, band pull-aparts.
For lowerbody assistance I do deadlifts, squats, good mornings, and leg press.
Somewhere in there I throw in abdominal work - db side bends and ab pulldowns mostly.
Just realized I'm rambling and probably not answering the question anymore.
I've been using it or some variation thereof 90% of the time since late 2008 probably.
I had a slight relapse when I went on Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0 around the time I divorced, but quickly snapped out of that thank goodness. Now when I want to lose some weight, I just adjust my diet and assistance exercises, but keep trucking with 531 protocols.
I also experimented with some of Brooks Kubik's Dinosaur Training protocols - heavy singles, sandbag work, squats from the bottom, etc. I feel that for getting me over the hump of being comfortable with weights much heavier than 315 lbs on my back, that Dino Training did the best job. So I might recommend to you to try some rack lockouts and bench press from the bottom to push you over any hurdles you might be coming up against.
That's about the only suggestion I have, because I don't have a very good bench at all, so I can't really speak from experience about weights as heavy as you are talking.
I find that deadlifting and squatting once per week is plenty for me. I don't think that the 531 protocol has really helped my bench the same though. That may be because my bench was lagging so far behind that it really wasn't intermediate.
But like I said at the beginning, I'm a terribly lazy person, and so I just stick with 531. It's easy because I can precalculate an entire 4 weeks of workouts automatically. I don't keep up with my assistance exercise weights and I only notionally keep up with my calculated rep max. So I'm able to keep 4 weeks worth of workouts on 1 little notepage of my iPhone. It has worked really well the past 2 years.
I just do the big lift that day, and then do assistance. I don't even really think about it anymore.
For upperbody assistance I do barbell bench, facepulls, db rows, barbell rows, triceps extension, pushdowns, band pull-aparts.
For lowerbody assistance I do deadlifts, squats, good mornings, and leg press.
Somewhere in there I throw in abdominal work - db side bends and ab pulldowns mostly.
Just realized I'm rambling and probably not answering the question anymore.
understand why you would be hesitant to change programs. You could just do a heavy squat day like you normally would on the first workout of the week, a light squat day, then another heavy squat day at the end of the week like suggested in the 5x5 program. You then could keep everything else the same.
How much lighter would a "light" day be?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Yep, there's literally only like 2 or 3 sets in the entire gym. 1 black 2 chrome.
Yeah, like I said, yesterday I got 325 3x5. At that point (it was hard) I realized there's no way I can continue like I have been. It's literally been +5 lbs a week since I began pretty much with only 1 or two sticking points.
I'll definitely look more into 5/3/1, the only thing that puts me off from that program is the "max effort" portions which would require a spotter, and well, I don't have one, and I really don't like asking for one.
It's cool man, I'm just glad to see you in here.
I'm just at a point now where something needs to change. I'm not so sure my ligaments/bones/muscles can maintain this progress tbh.
When I get these microloading plates and shit still feels the same, I'll definitely have to switch.
I definitely think I'm going to remove bench day 2 though.
cuevas. PhD.
Member
The more advanced programs that have been mentioned already have you still squatting multiple times a week but you are only pushing yourself 1 day a week because otherwise it would be too much.
Like madcow:
Here's a piece about belts.
Cuevas pretty much answered it. So it would be around 65-75% of your working weight. Also, I only recently starting using a belt and I've found that it has helped me quit a bit.
Craig Lieberson who is also a big spine guy is on FB and linked to that RKC Plank video with the hot mom I posted a couple days ago. I'll find his FB post when I get home. But in his link to the video on his FB he made a note that McGill doesn't recommend planking more than 10 seconds for training which is why he liked that video -- it made a standard plank more challenging.
When I asked for clarification from Craig he basically said it's fine to go all out for total endurance but not to train for ultimate endurance -- which in hindsight makes perfect sense. Power lifters don't train their 1 RM more than a couple times a cycle, if at all more than once.
So maybe the correct protocol is 10 second planks going all out but only resting maybe 30-60 seconds and keep going. If the RKC Plank is too easy for 10 seconds then I'd say that's a good sign your core is progressing well. Maybe start doing it on 1 leg, or 1 arm too.
And then maybe train for ultimate planking endurance for time once every 2 weeks or more. Sound about right?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Here's more articles on belts (someone else posted these before.)
http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/belt-me-up-scotty/
http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2009/12/pr-friday-3/
http://www.70sbig.com/blog/2010/04/more-reasons-for-wearing-a-belt/
A belt is one of the best things I've ever bought for myself, and I was skeptical as hell about them.
parrotbeak
Member
Hmm, that makes sense. I'll have to work up a schedule when I'm at home. Thanks!
OK so I need a belt because I want stronger abs anyways, now to figure out which one I suppose.
BlueScrote
Member
Just don't forget them at the gym when you're done. I know I would if I did that.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I have a bag so I'll just toss them in there. I always re-rack, so it shouldn't be an issue.
A few of us have the 13mm EliteFTS belt. I like it a lot. It's not optimal for deadlifting though.
Anton Sugar
Member
Yeah, you'd definitely need a spotter. But like deadbeef said, the program is so easy to use, really doesn't take much time (esp. upper body days), and is logically laid out/planned. It just works, for me, at least.
I'd say if you're at 285x3x5, you're creeping out of the beginner level and into intermediate. I was able to get into 310 or so without a belt and "stopped", thinking I had made gains as good as I could have as a beginner, until I talked to a buddy who said he rode Starting Strength out to 405 (with a belt). I tried again with a belt and ended up riding it out to 360x3x5 until I had a non-squat related injury.
I've never used a spotter. I just get in the rack and set the pins if I'm trying a max bench.
Also you're never truly attempting a max in 531 because you calculate each 4 week cycle based on 90% of your most recent max, and then week 3 has you work up to I think 95% of that.
So if your max squat is 405, you calc the cycle based on 365. Then in week 3 you'd be working up to 345, but max reps. You keep bumping the 90% max number by 10 lbs each 4 week cycle until you can't get the prescribed reps, then you deload and start again.
You should go several cycles (approx 6 months) before hitting that wall though.
Throughout all of this, you track your "rep max" which is really just an estimated 1RM using the formula posted earlier. And the last set of the day for the big lift you go for max reps. So every workout you can set a personal record really. It's like an averaged PR over time. It doesn't necessarily track to a true 1RM but if your rep max is going up you're getting stronger. And because the weights are so "low" (based off 90% true 1rm), you're always getting stronger. You just have to check your ego at the door initially and live in the world of rep maxes
MrToughPants
Brian Burke punched my mom
I'm trying to find a stainless steel one. The plastic bottles eventually stink from the milk even when you clean them immediately after use.
That they do, but some bleach and you're good to go again!
You are probably just overthinking it. The knees go forward and the hips go back simultaneously. Knees forward and then sit back. It will be harder to stay on your heels if you go straight back without first breaking at the knees and engaging your quads.
Price Dalton
Member
Really? I've found the opposite to be true - that by focusing on breaking at the hips, I can keep the weight back easier. Breaking at the knees first loads the knees and maintains that load on the knees throughout the movement, at least for me.
I think Starrett talks about this a lot.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Yes I find it harder to keep center of gravity if my shins stay more vertical. Try squatting straight back with more vertical shins. It's very hard to keep your balance. I think when a lot of people start out they overthink the role of the knees in the squat and overcomplicate the movement. When you break parallel the weight on the knees will be in balance with the glutes, hips, hams etc. (provided the bar stays approximately close to the middle of the foot)
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I came to a weird realization yesterday. If I had to give up video games or lifting, I would give up video games. I never thought that would be the case for me.
Also, back is progressing nicely. Doing Pendlay rows 185 3x5 now.
Pretty much what I was thinking too. I focus on sitting back first, then pushing my knees OUT not forward. The weight/focus tends to be on the outside of my quads, heels/outside of my feet and my hips/ass.
Yup, you, I don't know any other Mechas.
Also, back is progressing nicely. Doing Pendlay rows 185 3x5 now.
Pretty much what I was thinking too. I focus on sitting back first, then pushing my knees OUT not forward. The weight/focus tends to be on the outside of my quads, heels/outside of my feet and my hips/ass.
Yup, you, I don't know any other Mechas.
Mecha_Infantry
Banned
Yup, you, I don't know any other Mechas.
haha, sorry I just didn't know anyone pays attention to me in this thread! Shall I reply to your post about 5/3/1?
I need a belt but I constantly hear bad things about Inzer customer service so I don't want to buy from there.
APT is all out of stock.
Elitefts has only these it seems http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&pid=3495
What do????
APT is all out of stock.
Elitefts has only these it seems http://www.flexcart.com/members/elitefts/default.asp?m=PD&pid=3495
What do????
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
It's less about 5/3/1 and what you think I should do given my concerns about benching.
I believe all your numbers currently are higher than mine, so anything you could add would be nice.
I currently think I'm going to drop the second bench day, and start microloading.
Also, I'm doing 325 3x5 right now. How close to 405 1rm do you think I could be?
That's the thing keeping me away from this, well that and worrying about a spotter. I don't like "rep maxes"
parrotbeak
Member
barnone, can you sit in the bottom position? If so, I'd guess it's a balance and possibly supporting strength issue and just takes practice and learning to engage the muscles. If not, I'd guess it's flexibility in hips and/or ankles.
Anton Sugar
Member
Right--I said he'd need a spotter, pretty much just for bench, but if he can set the pins in the rack, he can try that. Rep maxes can be just as scary/difficult as max effort, though.
And shogun, it's not a "requirement" that you go for rep maxes every single workout for each of the three microcycles (5's, 3's, and 5/3/1), but you should be going for a rep max/PR as often as your body can handle.
I'm not sure what squat cues (and breaks) are actually. My shins are almost completely vertical on my attempts, and when I push the knees forward my weight shifts towards the balls of my feet. And yea, I am really worried about keeping my back vertical. My friends make fun of me whenever they give me squat lessons haha.
Edit: I am also a pretty tall guy at 6'4"
cuevas. PhD.
Member
You should post a video, it sounds like you have some issues.
I know a guy who tore an ACL during flag football, and another who broke a collarbone. No laughs.
Your back is not supposed to be completely vertical.
Read this: http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wiki/FAQ:The_Lifts#The_Squat
Price Dalton
Member
True, but at 6'4", he'll want to be more vertical than a 5'8" dude. Going low bar with a horizontal back will be harder on his lower back.
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