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[Timedog]

Have a recommendation?

Just get some cheap creatine monohydrate powder (I use ON brand too, it's tasteless), and mix it with some grape juice.

Some people will say to take it immediately before a workout, some will say immediately after. I take half of my dose before I workout, half after.

Some people/companies will tell you to "load" it, but taking 4-5 servings for 4-5 days. Probably not necessary. May even have the opposite of it's intended effect, as creatine is pooled outside the muscle. Just take 5g a day and your muscles will eventually become "loaded" (reach a saturation point) over time.

 

[reilo]

Pfft, height is overrated.

I'm 5 foot 8, and I'm glad I'm short.

Spoken like a man that's not/does not have to date anymore!

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Uh, yes, I know, but my point was specifically directed towards strength>aesthetics.

 

[Timedog]

I weigh 250. I should probably cut (pic taken for comparison purposes after I slim down), but I god I hate that my lateral deltoids refuse to grow, and cutting certainly won't help that. =/

 

[FallingEdge]

Uh, yes, I know, but my point was specifically directed towards strength>aesthetics.

Fair enough.

I don't know what I want. Any time I start to get bigger, I want to continue it. But then I see people with low body fat and I want that. What I do know for sure is:

1) I don't want to lose the muscle I have
2) I will never achieve the washboard look because my body can only go so far and if I want to go even further, that is just something I don't want to do.

I have to have < 10% bf to have the full blown abs/pecs look and I don't want to deal with that. So if I am around 12%, have a good look on me and can still push heavy weight, I am happy.

 

[Mr.City]

So says you. I'll take women swooning over my physique than being fat and strong. A lot of powerlifters at my old gym ended up having chicken cartilage injected from all the pain and injuries. Fuck that.

And being tall isn't "overrated." Don't know where the logic in that came from. Women like tall men, and being short just, well, sucks?

Don't want to be beg and boky like all dos powerlifters? This is a tangent, but everyone is afraid of the injury boogeyman coming up to snatch you away. All those powerlifters with their beat up joints. Everyone gets fucked up, whether you lift heavy weights or not. If you don't hurt your back with a heavy deadlift, then you hurt it moving furniture for your buddy. If squats don't dissolve your knees, then an untimely car accident well.

Also, the fat=strong= powerliffting thing is all taken from people only seeing competitors in the super heavyweight division.

 

[Poindexter]

Timedog, how tall are you? You look fairly slim for 250.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

So says you. I'll take women swooning over my physique than being fat and strong.

Yep. I like getting stronger but I don't want to look all "huge" either. I'll take slow gains until I reach my limit at my weight. I certainly don't want to gain fat to squat 10 more pounds.

 

[Petrie]

Yep. I like getting stronger but I don't want to look all "huge" either. I'll take slow gains until I reach my limit at my weight. I certainly don't want to gain fat to squat 10 more pounds.

Youre gaining fat, to also gain muscle, to be able to squat 10 more lbs. Not simply gaining fat.

 

[Mr.City]

I can't tell if Jason is trying to role play as Barney Stinson

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Youre gaining fat, to also gain muscle, to be able to squat 10 more lbs. Not simply gaining fat.

Yeah, but like I said I'm not really into gaining weight to gain strength. I'm not saying this as someone who's at 6% bf I still have a ways to go so I can still lose fat and gain muscle and stay at the same weight if not lose some while getting stronger.

 

[Timedog]

Timedog, how tall are you? You look fairly slim for 250.

6'6". Well, 6'5.5" technically, but I go with 6'5" or 6'6" depending on what suits whatever the discussion is =).

 

[Poindexter]

Gotdamn. No wonder. What exercises are you doing for your lateral deltoids?

 

[Timedog]

Gotdamn. No wonder. What exercises are you doing for your lateral deltoids?

Just doing the Starting Strength routine in the OP, with a couple sets of dumbbell side raises thrown in once a week or so.

Back when I was working out 10+ years ago in high school and doing a pure bodybuilding routine they refused to grow too, and I tried plenty of different exercises and different volumes. They just won't fucking grow.

 

[FallingEdge]

Yeah, but like I said I'm not really into gaining weight to gain strength. I'm not saying this as someone who's at 6% bf I still have a ways to go so I can still lose fat and gain muscle and stay at the same weight if not lose some while getting stronger.

For a second, I read that as saying that you are at 6% lol.

 

[Poindexter]

Just doing the Starting Strength routine in the OP, with a couple sets of dumbbell side raises thrown in once a week or so.

Back when I was working out 10+ years ago in high school and doing a pure bodybuilding routine they refused to grow too, and I tried plenty of different exercises and different volumes. They just won't fucking grow.

Have you tried shoulder flyes? Those helped mine out. They're a bit more stressful than raises. I would try to sub the side raises for the flyes for a few weeks and see if that helps.

 

[DR2K]

I think I overdid it on the ab and core work yesterday. I feel like I'm wearing a tight belt. Good feeling though.

 

[Timedog]

Have you tried shoulder flyes? Those helped mine out. They're a bit more stressful than raises. I would try to sub the side raises for the flyes for a few weeks and see if that helps.

Err, wait, what's the difference? Wikipedia says it's the same thing. Are you talking about where the arms are bent forward more? I've done those in the past and got nothin.

Maybe I'm not doing it right though...what's better for size? Focusing on concentric or eccentric motion? Maybe I'm focused too much on eccentric and isometrics at the expense of weight/building concentric power.

 

[rififi]

Err, wait, what's the difference? Wikipedia says it's the same thing. Are you talking about where the arms are bent forward more? I've done those in the past and got nothin.

Maybe I'm not doing it right though...what's better for size? Focusing on concentric or eccentric motion? Maybe I'm focused too much on eccentric and isometrics at the expense of weight/building concentric power.

Strange that they aren't growing with military presses, but with delt isolation exercises, form is the most important, otherwise you end up using your back muscles. Make sure you aren't using too much weight.

 

[kylej]

A lot of powerlifters at my old gym ended up having chicken cartilage injected from all the pain and injuries. Fuck that.

Aren't you the dude who can't lift because his elbow is so fucked up?

 

[Timedog]

Strange that they aren't growing with military presses, but with delt isolation exercises, form is the most important, otherwise you end up using your back muscles. Make sure you aren't using too much weight.

I definitely focus on using only my lateral delts as much as possible during the movement, but I also try to pause at the top as much as possible (isometric), and go very slow on the eccentric part of the motion. I'm wondering if I focused on the eccentric portion and thus used higher weights if that might be better for size.

 

[Poindexter]

Err, wait, what's the difference? Wikipedia says it's the same thing. Are you talking about where the arms are bent forward more? I've done those in the past and got nothin.

Maybe I'm not doing it right though...what's better for size? Focusing on concentric or eccentric motion? Maybe I'm focused too much on eccentric and isometrics at the expense of weight/building concentric power.

Rififi nailed it above. With these kinds of exercises it comes down to form. You need to have both forms of motion 100% to see results.

Shoulder flyes are different because you have a wider range of motion than raises (think more like doing a snow angel) and your palms should be outward facing.

Lower the weight a bit and take your time to make sure your form is 100% proper. There should be no upward swinging motion in your raises. It should be a controlled lift from start to finish. If you have to swing it up, it's too much weight. If you can't control the downward motion after the lift and instead let it drop then it's too much weight.

 

[abuC]

Just doing the Starting Strength routine in the OP, with a couple sets of dumbbell side raises thrown in once a week or so.

Back when I was working out 10+ years ago in high school and doing a pure bodybuilding routine they refused to grow too, and I tried plenty of different exercises and different volumes. They just won't fucking grow.

I have the same problem with my biceps right now, no matter what I do, they remain the same even with the weight going up.

 

[Timedog]

I have the same problem with my biceps right now, no matter what I do, they remain the same even with the weight going up.

Yeah man, biceps are tough. Seems like lots of guys have much harder time growing their triceps then their biceps for whatever reason. If I can get my lateral delts up to par biceps would probably be my next target.

 

[Poindexter]

My biceps are big but they don't have the bump. Measured they're bigger than my friends but you wouldn't know it from looking at them because they all have the bump. Oh well. My wife still likes them.

 

[JB1981]

Anybody have good resistance bands they can recommend? I don't want bands with the grips at the end, just a loop I can use to stretch. Any ideas ?

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Bodyfit resistance bands. Sports Authority sells them.

 

[JB1981]

Bodyfit resistance bands. Sports Authority sells them.

These look good. Thanks, dude!

 

[lenovox1]

Anybody have good resistance bands they can recommend? I don't want bands with the grips at the end, just a loop I can use to stretch. Any ideas ?

I would say Thera-band latex bands, as that's just what people tend to use. But any latex resistance band would be alright (like that Bodyfit brand), no specific brand necessary if you're just going to be stretching with it.

 

[Mr.City]

Just hit a chin-up Pr of 7 at a bodyweight of around 243-245. Almost at the half way point to 20.

 

[Psychotext]

I sort of don't want to ask for risk of dredging up an argument, but I was reading the comments related to the "strength > aesthetics" thing and I find myself wondering... why?

When I workout it has always been for either general fitness, competition (kickboxing) or aesthetics... so I find the whole PB / max lift thing a little alien. I obviously understand the desire for self improvement, but to me this is just as meaningful in terms of looks as in terms of lifts. (assuming it's not to the general detriment of health, though that one can apply to both sides too)

I can certainly understand doing it for competition. Obviously that's a huge thing to a lot of people. But unless you have a strength related occupation, is there really any meaningful difference in being able to squat 500lbs vs 400lbs? Or bench 350lbs vs 300lbs? By meaningful I mean in any way other than personal pride / achievement, which obviously applies to aesthetics as well.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just trying to understand why people feel one is really greater than the other when both really just come down to personal improvement. Not my intention to piss one side off vs the other.

 

[Petrie]

Easter, Christmas, etc: the absolute worst part of these holidays is we go home to my g/fs house, which means most of our meals are eaten out with her family as they dont really cook at all. Not going to insult them by refusing, but it makes it very hard to eat well when we go somewhere and the healthiest option is a hot turkey sub, without a veggie side in sight. Definitely fighting not to set back my cut.

 

[FallingEdge]

I sort of don't want to ask for risk of dredging up an argument, but I was reading the comments related to the "strength > aesthetics" thing and I find myself wondering... why?

When I workout it has always been for either general fitness, competition (kickboxing) or aesthetics... so I find the whole PB / max lift thing a little alien. I obviously understand the desire for self improvement, but to me this is just as meaningful in terms of looks as in terms of lifts. (assuming it's not to the general detriment of health, though that one can apply to both sides too)

I can certainly understand doing it for competition. Obviously that's a huge thing to a lot of people. But unless you have a strength related occupation, is there really any meaningful difference in being able to squat 500lbs vs 400lbs? Or bench 350lbs vs 300lbs? By meaningful I mean in any way other than personal pride / achievement, which obviously applies to aesthetics as well.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just trying to understand why people feel one is really greater than the other when both really just come down to personal improvement. Not my intention to piss one side off vs the other.

It really comes down to different goals to different people. When I first started lifting, I had an idea in mind of what I wanted to look like. I didn't care how strong I got, I just wanted to reach my ideal physique. However, as I started to lift more and more, I became addicted to increasing how much weight I can bench/squat/dl/etc. My goals changed over time. The meaningful difference between 500 and 400 is just that. A difference of 100 lbs. For me, I'm all about progress. So when I am lifting 100 lbs more than I was before, I'm all about that.

Same with looks. I take my progress pics because I like to see how far I have come from. I don't believe one is better than the other but I do feel that in order to achieve the look, you have to be able to have a certain amount of strength associated with that. I would rather have both and slowly work my way to that as opposed to going one way over the other.

 

[demon]

I sort of don't want to ask for risk of dredging up an argument, but I was reading the comments related to the "strength > aesthetics" thing and I find myself wondering... why?

When I workout it has always been for either general fitness, competition (kickboxing) or aesthetics... so I find the whole PB / max lift thing a little alien. I obviously understand the desire for self improvement, but to me this is just as meaningful in terms of looks as in terms of lifts. (assuming it's not to the general detriment of health, though that one can apply to both sides too)

I can certainly understand doing it for competition. Obviously that's a huge thing to a lot of people. But unless you have a strength related occupation, is there really any meaningful difference in being able to squat 500lbs vs 400lbs? Or bench 350lbs vs 300lbs? By meaningful I mean in any way other than personal pride / achievement, which obviously applies to aesthetics as well.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just trying to understand why people feel one is really greater than the other when both really just come down to personal improvement. Not my intention to piss one side off vs the other.

It probably stems from the belief that as far as improvements and results go, functional is always better than aesthetic/superficial.

 

[Psychotext]

It probably stems from the belief that as far as improvements and results go, functional is always better than aesthetic/superficial.

I can see it, but for many people aesthetic is functional... at least in real terms. I'm likely to use my looks (ok, maybe not me, I'm taken far more often as the ability to lift something that weighs about as much as a baby elephant. That's not to say that it's not at all useful, of course it is, but I wonder how useful at the higher ends.

I could probably understand it more if bodybuilding turned you into a weakling... but most of these guys aren't exactly struggling to carry their shopping back from the car.

 

[reilo]

Since when were aesthetics and strength exclusive? You can't be strong and look good?

 

[Veezy]

I sort of don't want to ask for risk of dredging up an argument, but I was reading the comments related to the "strength > aesthetics" thing and I find myself wondering... why?

When I workout it has always been for either general fitness, competition (kickboxing) or aesthetics... so I find the whole PB / max lift thing a little alien. I obviously understand the desire for self improvement, but to me this is just as meaningful in terms of looks as in terms of lifts. (assuming it's not to the general detriment of health, though that one can apply to both sides too)

I can certainly understand doing it for competition. Obviously that's a huge thing to a lot of people. But unless you have a strength related occupation, is there really any meaningful difference in being able to squat 500lbs vs 400lbs? Or bench 350lbs vs 300lbs? By meaningful I mean in any way other than personal pride / achievement, which obviously applies to aesthetics as well.

Again, before anyone jumps down my throat, I'm just trying to understand why people feel one is really greater than the other when both really just come down to personal improvement. Not my intention to piss one side off vs the other.

People set goals and try to achieve them. Some people strictly want to look better while others care more for the weights improving on the bar.

I'm of the mindset that one can have both. You don't have to be fat to improve your strength numbers and you don't have to drink a gallon of milk a day to increase your squat.

My theory, based on nothing but the internet, is a gradual increase in fitness "experts" and genuine curiosity began a few years ago from a bunch of people reading starting strength and Crossfit getting popular. These people jumped into the Rippetoe midset of "who gives a fuck how you look, just get stronger" and crossed paths with the "functional fitness is the only fitness" to form this super group of "anything that you do thats purely for aesthetics is bullshit" crowd. So, as CF grew and as SS became more popular this group got bigger and bigger.

Combine that with the widespread knowledge that most (male and female) fitness models, body builders, athletes (Pro or otherwise), and actors use chemical enhancing products (despite the fact that you need a ton of discipline for those products to give you what you want) resulted in many people (incorrectly) assuming that a good physique requires steroids OR means that you have to be sub 180.

Take A + B and you get what has now become a argument over why somebody would work out to look better. I'm not saying everybody on this board thinks that way, but it has become a trend.

I could be wrong, but it's the only reason I can find as to why people shit all over somebody wanting to do a fucking bicep curl or being concerned about how they chest looks. It's completely human to want to be more attractive and the idea that you can't get that way lifting really heavy is completely false.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Spoken like a man that's not/does not have to date anymore!

Lol, true enough.

My statement isn't black and white. It goes with the subsequent posts. It isn't all or nothing. The point is looks without strength is bullshit/pointless. It's not a statement of fact (obviously, or so I thought), it's simply a strong opinion.

You can still be big without being fat, ya know.

He be trollin' dawg.

Don't want to be beg and boky like all dos powerlifters? This is a tangent, but everyone is afraid of the injury boogeyman coming up to snatch you away. All those powerlifters with their beat up joints. Everyone gets fucked up, whether you lift heavy weights or not. If you don't hurt your back with a heavy deadlift, then you hurt it moving furniture for your buddy. If squats don't dissolve your knees, then an untimely car accident well.

Also, the fat=strong= powerliffting thing is all taken from people only seeing competitors in the super heavyweight division.

Yuuuuuuuup!

Youre gaining fat, to also gain muscle, to be able to squat 10 more lbs. Not simply gaining fat.

This (referring to the quote you posted since I have that guy on ignore) is what I find hilarious, my weight has stayed the same/gone down, my clothes have gotten looser(except the ass/legs) and my squat strength has exploded. And my other lifts are still increasing nicely.

Broscience.

 

[reilo]

People set goals and try to achieve them. Some people strictly want to look better while others care more for the weights improving on the bar.

I'm of the mindset that one can have both. You don't have to be fat to improve your strength numbers and you don't have to drink a gallon of milk a day to increase your squat.

My theory, based on nothing but the internet, is a gradual increase in fitness "experts" and genuine curiosity began a few years ago from a bunch of people reading starting strength and Crossfit getting popular. These people jumped into the Rippetoe midset of "who gives a fuck how you look, just get stronger" and crossed paths with the "functional fitness is the only fitness" to form this super group of "anything that you do thats purely for aesthetics is bullshit" crowd. So, as CF grew and as SS became more popular this group got bigger and bigger.

Combine that with the widespread knowledge that most (male and female) fitness models, body builders, athletes (Pro or otherwise), and actors use chemical enhancing products (despite the fact that you need a ton of discipline for those products to give you what you want) resulted in many people (incorrectly) assuming that a good physique requires steroids OR means that you have to be sub 180.

Take A + B and you get what has now become a argument over why somebody would work out to look better. I'm not saying everybody on this board thinks that way, but it has become a trend.

I could be wrong, but it's the only reason I can find as to why people shit all over somebody wanting to do a fucking bicep curl or being concerned about how they chest looks. It's completely human to want to be more attractive and the idea that you can't get that way lifting really heavy is completely false.

Very well and succinctly stated.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I posted this on the last page, but I think a lot of people skipped reading it. Really good read.

Five Things Bodybuilders Can Learn from Powerlifters, Part 1

Aren't you the dude who can't lift because his elbow is so fucked up?

I forgot all about that, Kyle remembers all.

 

[Poindexter]

Easter, Christmas, etc: the absolute worst part of these holidays is we go home to my g/fs house, which means most of our meals are eaten out with her family as they dont really cook at all. Not going to insult them by refusing, but it makes it very hard to eat well when we go somewhere and the healthiest option is a hot turkey sub, without a veggie side in sight. Definitely fighting not to set back my cut.

Eh. I'd just politely decline and explain that you're on a strict diet. It's their issue if they don't understand. If someone was that stubborn then it's more their problem than yours (assuming you decline with tact). I used to try to be extra polite to my in laws and whatever they cooked but setting myself back on my goals isn't worth it. My mother in law in particular was offended for a while but she got over it when she realized I wasn't trying to snub her, it's just a different lifestyle. It's not your issue if they're not mature enough to realize that some people look at food differently.

 

[balddemon]

Today hurt.

Squatted 305 3x5 - good lord that was hard. Last 2 reps were questionable. After the third set though, my hearing was all janky lol. Tough shit. Hopefully 2 days of rest and lots of eating wil help me for 315. Then maybe a deload is in order lol.

Benched 170 3x5 - easy.

Deadlift - weird. Tried 365 first, and I could not get it more than 2 inches off the ground. .25 reps. Lowered it to 345. Got 2 good reps, and then my foot cramped as I put the bar down on the 2nd rep. Yeah I'm done lol. So 2.25 reps at 350ish. Probs deload along with squat next week.

Anyways, good day, glad I get 2 days off now.

 

[cuevas. PhD.]

Easter, Christmas, etc: the absolute worst part of these holidays is we go home to my g/fs house, which means most of our meals are eaten out with her family as they dont really cook at all. Not going to insult them by refusing, but it makes it very hard to eat well when we go somewhere and the healthiest option is a hot turkey sub, without a veggie side in sight. Definitely fighting not to set back my cut.

Just eat small meals. Worry about the calories instead of the micronutrients.

 

[Houston3000]

I can see it, but for many people aesthetic is functional... at least in real terms. I'm likely to use my looks (ok, maybe not me, I'm taken far more often as the ability to lift something that weighs about as much as a baby elephant. That's not to say that it's not at all useful, of course it is, but I wonder how useful at the higher ends.

This is were I sit. I have only been working out a few short months and before that I lost weight relatively easily and over-time naturally by just cutting some garbage out of my old diet (soda, fried food, mcdonalds, etc). Thing is, I'm a web developer by profession, back when I was 210 pounds and had absolutely zero muscles to speak of I was still completely and fully physically functional in every aspect of my life. I had two goals when I started working out. 1) I wanted to look better; I was single and moving to NYC and 2) In the back of my mind I was figuring it would be good for my long term health... I'm only 26 and I don't want to have a heart attack when I'm 65, let alone 40. "Being stronger" was a very distant side benefit to the whole thing (though I admit it's nice so far).

I don't post much in this thread because most of you guys are on a whole other level. If I told you all I've been doing Bicep Curls, Tricep Kickbacks, and Hammer Curls heavily for the last few months and haven't been so heavily focusing on Deadlifts and Power Squats I would have my head ripped off. I enjoy hearing compliments though on my arms when I'm cuddling with a date more than I care that I can't exactly lift a car off the ground yet with my back. I mean, don't get me wrong. I work out my entire body but my main focus is selecting muscle groups and making those more defined. I've started really getting into core excercises lately because I want to build up and tone my abs and obliques. I do think it's a lot more superficial to focus on aesthetics than pure strength but when you're not doing it for your job/competitions and you're going beyond simple health reasons than it doesn't really matter anymore.

Just my 1 cent

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

He be trollin' dawg.

How am I trolling when I was specifically referring to your asinine statement that strength>aesthetics. Hell, FallingEdge basically replied saying "fair enough." Guess you missed that part, huh? Anyway, you said it, not me. You basically implied that you can't be both strong and aesthetic looking. All I did was respond to your ignorant statement.

And my elbows are basically healed now. RICE-ing, stretching, and forearm curls did the trick over the past month. Inflammation is easy to make go away. Not much of comparison to having chicken cartilage injected into you or having surgery from squatting and deadlifting.

P.S. Being very strong has no practicality in the real world unless your job requires you to be strong, i.e. cop, firefighter, etc..

There's a reason why some people ignore this thread, and it's because of Alienshogun spouting shit like it's a fact.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

How am I trolling when I was specifically referring to your asinine statement that strength>aesthetics. Hell, FallingEdge basically replied saying "fair enough." Guess you missed that part, huh? Anyway, you said it, not me. You basically implied that you can't be both strong and aesthetic looking. All I did was respond to your ignorant statement.

And my elbows are basically healed now. RICE-ing, stretching, and forearm curls did the trick over the past month. Inflammation is easy to make go away. Not much of comparison to having chicken cartilage injected into you or having surgery.

P.S. Being very strong has no practicality in the real world unless your job requires you to be strong, i.e. cop, firefighter, etc..

You read it how you wanted to read it, which was incorrectly. I didn't say it's all or nothing, nor did the context imply that. Especially when I followed it up with that bodybuilding/powerlifting article, and my respect for bodybuilders like Mecha.

Did you read the article? I'm betting probably not.

There's a reason why some people ignore this thread, and it's because of Alienshogun spouting shit like it's a fact.

Again, you read it how you wanted to read it. Nowhere did I say any of that was fact.

You really seem have some deep seated issues.

 

[entremet]

Well my detour with p90x is over. I'm a lifter, through and through. While HIIT based workouts are great, they just don't motivate me as much as standard barbell and bodyweight assistance programs.

I'll focus on diet, sprinting, etc. to cut.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Er, so you post an article hours and hours later after you posted a comment that "strength>aesthetics" since this morning? LOL. Might as well come out with it that you're trying to cover your tail.

Dude, I know you can get strong and look like an adonis at the same time. Nowhere since this morning I've stated otherwise. I just like picking apart ignorant comments like you made and cannot take back. Basically you're saying you'd rather be fat and strong, when in reality, you can be both strong and aesthetically pleasing.

Anyway, I'm done.

 

[Timedog]

I think strength is more useless than aesthetics once you get to a decent level.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Er, so you post an article hours and hours later after you posted "strength>aesthetics" in the morning? LOL.

Dude, I know you can get strong and look like an adonis at the same time. Nowhere since this morning I've stated otherwise. I just like picking apart ignorant comments like you made and cannot take back. Basically you're saying you'd rather be fat and strong, when in reality, you can be both strong and aesthetically pleasing.

The only ignorant comments here are yours. It's clear you have an issue with me (and probably some other personal issues). Anyone who reads the previous page with any shred of intelligent reading comprehension can see my intent/meaning is nothing that you're spinning it to be.

This is as far as I'm going to go with this, and it's better if I just put you on ignore from here on out to keep this thread from turning into more meaningless bickering.

Edit: Oh, and nothing you're posting commenting on was from this morning, I posted them yesterday. Where you see "covering my ass" is only you seeing shit (again) where there isn't anything. Here, look again.

The "Strength>Aesthetics" post I made complimenting Cooter.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36684142&postcount=16347

18 minutes later, the article I posted about body building/powerlifting.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36684752&postcount=16354

I think strength is more useless than aesthetics once you get to a decent level.

Depends on your goals, self improvement etc.

Personally I want to compete, so for me strength is paramount, but conditioning has to go with it. It's no good to be a powerful beast if you're also 50+lbs overweight. That's part of Wendlers philosophy too.

I'm loving how my body is changing, my shoulders/traps/chest are getting huge. I love that my "yoke" is finally coming in, even if it still has a long way to go. And to go with that, I'm getting strong as shit. I love where I am now, and I know I'm only getting better.