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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Or what? That sky will fall?
entremet
Member
Okay here you go.
Protein:
Ground beef
Chicken thighs, both of these are cheap
Chuck roast
Bacon
Whole Chicken--cheaper than individual cuts
Ground breakfast sausage
Salmon--Canned is a good choice here. I like Bumblebee Alaska Salmon.
Beef Jerky
Deli Meats
Fruits and Veggies:
Cucumber
Cabbage
Mixed greens
Spinach
Broccoli
Oranges/Lemon/Limes for marinades, dressing, and seasoning
Apples
Bananas
Berries
Starches:
Yams/Sweet Potatoes
Potatoes
Rice
Pasta
Don't overdo these as they can be cheap calories, but they're good for bulking when you keep portions sensible and always pair with protein. I can do without pasta since it makes me fat, personally. But you seems to have fast metabolism. Plus its cheap, given your budget.
Healthy fats:
Avocado
Nuts and Nut butters
Olives
Olive Oil--For cooking or drizzling
Coconut Oil--for cooking
Grassfed Butter--Kerry Gold is cheap at Trader Joe's
Plus frozen veggies in a pinch work great
Add that with a good canned salsa, spices, vinegars, mustards, hot sauces, and you have tons of recipes at your disposal.
Spiritreaver
Member
Man, those were the days. Actually in high school we had a weighting training day in gym class. Me and my two other nerdy friends got together on a bench. I did like 3-4 reps with the bar. My friend who was much fatter than I was, did 95 for more reps than I did.
It was that day I decided that the gym was the stupidest place ever and I would never set foot in one again.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I think that's more common that people starting with 135 to be honest. Too often I see people trying to do way more than they should right off the bat.
No one should feel bad about what they can lift so long as they continue to push themselves. Strength is relative and they shouldn't base their own strength on what they see others doing, people need to remember that.
Haha, that's pretty funny. Now look at you.
Hah nice. How long you been going to the gym altogether then?
Spiritreaver
Member
Exactly. I have a lot of friends who won't get into lifting because they think they'll be judged or feel embarrassed. It's not about that, everyone's in there to better themselves, people are just on different levels. Everyone has to start somewhere, and you have no where to go but up when you start.
Four years now, so I'm still a newbie really.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
Yeah, and those that ARE there to judge are just assholes. You/they could take solace in knowing those guys are probably inadequate/suffering in other areas of their life if they have to take the time to belittle others in a setting such as the gym.
I think one of the biggest issues here is that you're a skinny, weak man (I only mean physically) who is not aware of what to do and what to eat to become a not skinny, not weak man. Protein is the first place to start, a 1 to 1.5 grams per pound of body weight is good. You seem to be good on carbs.
I don't think you need another day to make it go faster somehow. Establishing good habits, both in diet an lifting, is key here. That means not going for fad diet, not going for the quick fix, and not thinking you need to do a million isolation exercises to make sure "everything gets hit."
It's working because for a newbie, anything is going to work to a certain degree, but you're shortchanging yourself.
Damn, when I first started lifting I could only do the bar for 6 reps, no joke. Your reply would've crushed me.
Haha, I started there too. I only weigh 115 so right now I can still only bench 110.
I thought that too when I read DarthWufei's post. Then I considered where I started and how far I've come. Where I got my information before and what I've ingested now. It's a world of difference.
It's also important for me to remember my misconceptions and my frame of mind when I begun any sort of training. It's helpful in assisting others who may be in a similar place; insofar as to guide them away from the same mistakes and remembering just how much bullshit there is to sift out.
I would burn every muscle magazine in the world than have another fitness novice pick one up and fill their brain with the garbage they imbue in impressionable minds. It happened to me, but thankfully I never ran amok with those ideas.Mr. City said:
It's especially sad in that guy's case, because he could have put in a good decade of training and maybe avoided suffering a death so early. That's just speculation, but really if someone wants a good model for aesthetic goals I wouldn't look at anyone past 1980 for the most part; ideally you'd look in the pre-steroid era for more realistic results and role models.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
I don't think the anabolics were the root cause of his death, either, but combined with every other poor lifestyle choice he made with the "need it now" mindset it was enough to do him in.
You know, a thing like a family history of heart disease that you never follow up on, despite your high blood pressure, that couldn't have helped him. And coke. I don't know what studies there have been on cocaine and heart disease (who would finance this study?), but that couldn't have helped his heart condition.
You know, a thing like a family history of heart disease that you never follow up on, despite your high blood pressure, that couldn't have helped him. And coke. I don't know what studies there have been on cocaine and heart disease (who would finance this study?), but that couldn't have helped his heart condition.
He was an incredible forum troll.
youngplaya21
Member
Thanks (think)! Sounds like P90X has done all it was gonna do to help me, now.
Thank you for the list. Plan on shopping for something new tomorrow now! For some reason, I assumed food like breakfadst sausages and bacon was bad, so it's good to see it being said otherwise
Or you won't get the results you want. Playing around with volume and exercise variations only gets you so far; strength and muscle mass are highly correlated, so if you don't get strong you won't get all that big, either.
Is it just me or do you seem kind of hostile to people advocating strength training?
A good example of why you need to be strong to be a good bodybuilder is Reg Park. He is one of the all-time best natural bodybuilders ever, and the second person to ever bench press 500 pounds, which he did in a white tshirt.
He also advocated strength training in the 5x5 range, albeit with high volume of movements.
Or look at Layne Norton, a more recent example. He's all natural and he's squatting in the mid-400's.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
He was trolling me, hence why I didn't respond to him and why I won't ever respond to him again.
Also, everything you said is spot on and I posted two articles about that about a month ago.
Five Things Bodybuilders Can Learn from Powerlifters, Part 1
Five things Bodybuilders Can Learn From Powerlifters, Part 2
How old are you?
Muscle size and density is directly related to strength.
BB and body sculpting rely on creating appropriate proportions of the body through dedicating time to specific areas more.
At the end of the day if you want BB physique you can't do it without gaining strength.
entremet
Member
Ever try fasting?
20. I work between 50-60 hour weeks on top of school.
I will never fast. Fasting is ludicrous. Most of the time, it's counterproductive. Sure you lose a ton of weight from basically starving yourself for a few days, but your body will just gain it back a few days later.
what...... what do you do?
is it healthy to be cutting when it seems like a growing adult at that age would need plentiful amounts of food/nutrients to meet a demanding schedule?
I work at a nursery as your basic worker for 20-25 hours a week, then work at a really small catering hall/Elks Lodge for 30 hours a week.
I'd like to cut because I have put on about 10lbs of muscle since January and it's summer, and I'd like to show it off. Right now, people notice I'm a big guy who's pretty athletic, I'd just like to get leaner.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/fasting-exercise-workout-recovery/#axzz1trW87aRX
He has a pretty long series on fasting that you might find interesting (or absurd), but the supposed benefits isnt simply short term weight loss. And personally, I think fasting is much easier to do than forcing yourself to eat less every meal or counting calories
It's been my belief through common sense that bad things happen when a body is cut short of its daily diet and nutrition. Especially for a person with a lifestyle that puts their body through enough stress. The most effective way to lose weight is to slowly reduce your calories weekly or bi weekly while increasing exercise until you reach a threshold.
Just reading your link provides a lot of WTF moments from browsing the introduction.
Here:
Why would a "natural" fitness blog devoted to explaining fasting explain that fasting is great for cancer patients? Most oncologists suggest a cancer patient should eat a diet rich in Vitamin A and C.
Again, he does not go into detail if the subject got the same response after weeks or even days of fasting after a workout. Normally after a workout, you should eat a meal rich in carbohydrates and proteins. Both help you recover and do not put your body into starvation mode.
He plugs in his friend's study which found that taking a certain amino acid will help your "enhancement." What does this mean? I have no fucking clue. It could either mean you get a better pump, which is possible because it aides in protein production, but it's not likea supplement or a great protein diet cannot do a better job.
I just find the whole natural "workout" trend to be utter bullshit. Fasting is far from natural. Running around barefoot does more harm than good. Eating algae or meat raw is not natural anymore. The only good thing to come out of the natural movement was an increase in awareness to barefoot squatting. Everything else is pseudo-bro-science.
Just reading your link provides a lot of WTF moments from browsing the introduction.
Here:
Why would a "natural" fitness blog devoted to explaining fasting explain that fasting is great for cancer patients? Most oncologists suggest a cancer patient should eat a diet rich in Vitamin A and C.
Again, he does not go into detail if the subject got the same response after weeks or even days of fasting after a workout. Normally after a workout, you should eat a meal rich in carbohydrates and proteins. Both help you recover and do not put your body into starvation mode.
He plugs in his friend's study which found that taking a certain amino acid will help your "enhancement." What does this mean? I have no fucking clue. It could either mean you get a better pump, which is possible because it aides in protein production, but it's not likea supplement or a great protein diet cannot do a better job.
I just find the whole natural "workout" trend to be utter bullshit. Fasting is far from natural. Running around barefoot does more harm than good. Eating algae or meat raw is not natural anymore. The only good thing to come out of the natural movement was an increase in awareness to barefoot squatting. Everything else is pseudo-bro-science.
Intermittent fasting (16 hours per day), Keto (ckd), and a strength 3x5 style program is a godlike combination. Of course there are many other ways to do it, but for me this has worked the best by far.
edit: whoops replied to the wrong post.
Mostly he's talking about Leucine which is in BCAA. It increases protein synthesis and helps prevent muscle breakdown. It's great for intermittent fasting. You may think it is bullshit but it is less bro sciency than your bullshit statement that you need carbs and protein right after you workout. I do eat protein after I workout because I time my workouts like that but I have done without before, and I never eat carbs. So yeah your statements are just as much bullshit.....and starvation mode? lol Your bro-science is about 7 years old. Time to update it.
Leucine is in a lot of foods.
This is directly from the Wikipedia page for Leucine. I've underlined just a few foods that offer a precipitous amount of leucine. Most of them are high in protein or carbohydrates. You proved my statement without even knowing it.
This is directly from the Wikipedia page for Starvation response. As you can see, after 3-4 days of fasting, the body stops breaking down glucose and sugars and begins to break down proteins. I guess, if you're able to feed yourself senseless with protein for the 8 hours you do eat, you'd be fine, but it's far from "healthy".
You obviously didnt read it very closely since you fast before a workout, not afterwards. The benefit of fasting in this case is being in a fasted state while you exercise so that you can take advantage of higher glycogen stores and better insulin sensitivity. After you are done lifting or exercising you end your fast and eat something.
I also think reducing calories and increasing exercise is a terrible way to lose weight. Sure, you can do it that way, but there are FAR easier ways (like following that guys advice on diet - but its pretty obvious you are never going to do that)
Leucine is in a lot of foods.
This is directly from the Wikipedia page for Leucine. I've underlined just a few foods that offer a precipitous amount of leucine. Most of them are high in protein or carbohydrates. You proved my statement without even knowing it.
This is directly from the Wikipedia page for Starvation response. As you can see, after 3-4 days of fasting, the body stops breaking down glucose and sugars and begins to break down proteins. I guess, if you're able to feed yourself senseless with protein for the 8 hours you do eat, you'd be fine, but it's far from "healthy".
People aren't talking about fasting for days. 18 hrs per day. You don't go into starvation for much longer than that.
You didn't prove anything regarding leucine. Of course it is in protein.....it is just a broken down form of a protein. Of course you will get a shit ton if you eat a lot of protein...that wasn't the point. He was talking about taking BCAA with Leucine while FASTING so what the shit did you prove exactly?
Ok. So your body is just done recovering after you eat? It's not. It takes atleast 3 days to recover from a 2 muscle group workout. If you're constantly telling your body to eat away at your protein stores rather than using them to help aide in recovery you're going to be one tired and plateaued lifter after a few weeks.
Can you explain to me why slowly reducing calories and slowly increasing exercise is a "terrible" way to lose weight? In your post you state that there are "far easier ways" to lose weight, however, you don't allude to the fact that most of these "easy diets" do nothing for you in the long run. Look at how many people from Biggest Loser regain most of their weight back within two years of leaving the show. Each contestant was put on a fasting diet in a pressure filled atmosphere. Only a few have maintained there weight.
I proved you don't have to take BCAA with Leucine to recover. It's pointless to fast and then take a ton of amino acid supplements that do the exact same thing a plate of steak and sweet potatoes can do.
WTF are you talking about? Your wikipedia bit even stated that your body doesnt start using up protein stores until 72 hours+, and no one is recommending you to fast NEARLY that long.
That blogger does not recommend a fasting diet, he recommends a no grain, no sugar, real food diet (to avoid crap like HFCS and hydrogenated oils) that is high in good fats, protein, veggies with occasional fruits and dairy if you can tolerate it. Fasting is just a tool you can use to help push you past a plateau if you are stalling or want to lose weight quicker. If you dont want to fast, you dont have to.
He doesnt recommend some fad diet or something non-sustainable. Frankly, i think the diet he recommends is FAR more sustainable and effective than simple calorie deficit diets. Obviously, he also recommends lifting and light cardio to help with health and weight loss as well
Frankly, i find fasting pretty easy now that my energy comes from fats, not carbs. I can go 16 hours pretty easily without eating and not even get all that hungry
Read the fucking article, christ. All he says about BCAA is that some blogger suggests you can take 10 grrams of BCAA before the workout and that shouldnt take you out of the fast. That is not one of the main benefits of fasting that he even talks about. Thats like an added bonus he simply mentions off-hand
Ok nevermind. I'm not going to explain it since you are totally clueless. I do eat tons of steak and chicken. I eat 230g protein, 160g fat, and 20g carbs per day. I don't take Leucine to replace protein lol.
Yeah I'm doing the same thing. It is hella easy. First time I've ever gained a lot of muscle while dropping weight too. That's the Keto though I think.
There's plenty of bodybuilders (way more than the other way around) who don't do low rep ranges. There's also plenty that don't do barbell work or other stuff strength athletes do. Why would I be hostile towards people advocating strength training while doing strength training? That makes no sense.
No, I was trolling the idea that everyone should make strength a big priority.
A professional bodybuilder physique? Yeah, by training and achieving that physique you're going to be at least somewhat strong. If you're eating and training and you're growing you'll get stronger regardless of whether or not you're doing BB rep ranges/exercises. Of course if you can only lift the bar right now, you're not going to have a professional bodybuilders physique "without gaining strength". That's so mindnumbingly obvious that it goes without even saying. I doubt there's a person that's smart enough to type and or sign up for an account on a forum that thinks that you can go from non-athlete to professional bodybuilder without gaining any strength. The real point is about whether strength should be a big priority, and that is completely person dependent.
Dude. I've stayed as calm as I can through all of this. Each of yours and the other guys post continue to personally attack me. If I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong without looking immature in the process. I'm looking to get advice on how to cut in my situation, and it's not possible to do that. I've stated that fasting is not healthy due to the fact that most people cannot not eat for 16 hours, go to the gym and expect to do a cutting routine on top of that. A slow calorie deficiency diet is a better option for most people.
Sure it's slow and does not provide the fast results like an 18 hour fast, but it still offers the same nutrients that a 6 hour binge does. Probably more. Fasting can be horrible for the sole reason that most people are not as disciplined, or as loyal as you two seem. Most people will not eat for 18 hours and start binge eating. I've said this from the very start.
If you just have a blog and you promote your book in the banner, it's a major red flag that whoever is posting is likely posting a bunch of crap, or interpreting everything for his docket.
Im being short with you because its obvious that you either skimmed the article very quickly or didnt read it at all, and then started to say what a load of crap it was by pointing to stuff the article didnt even say. That's a bunch of crap. If you are going to comment and critique something, at least take the time to properly read it.
As for doing a cutting routine on top of fasting, why would you do that? Just fast and then eat until you are full afterwards. If your diet is based on meats and veggies (fats, proteins, and nutrient goodness) it is EXTREMELY difficult to binge eat and you feel full much easier than if you have a diet based mostly on carbs and sugar. Its not about disciple at all. I simply can't binge eat if I am eating the right foods after a fast since I would simply explode if I tried(or feel like i would)
That is why people are saying fasting is easier and more effective that simple calorie reduction since you simply feel full a lot longer and dont get hungry until much later on a diet where your main source of fuel is fat.
As for that blogger just being it in for the money, you should actually check out his site since he basically provides every information for free. The benefit of the book (im assuming - havent bought it) is that it is simply better organized and you dont have to go through a shit ton of links to read it all
FallingEdge
Member
Martin doesn't even have a book out. He has been talking about this for years but it still isn't out. 16 hour fast with an 8 hour eating window is fine. Mully, you are suppose to eat a big meal post workout, full of carbs and protein.
Oh, I linked him to the mark's daily apple blog, so that was who he was referring to.
MrOogieBoogie
BioShock Infinite is like playing some homeless guy's vivid imagination
My mediocre L-sit into handstand transition.
The L-sit is fine, but the handstand needs a bunch of work. First, I need to continue working on keeping my arms as straight as possible. Much more difficult than it sounds when factoring in legs straight as possible, which I actually think I have down pretty well. But most troubling is the noticeable arch in my lower back. I never realized it was so severe because I feel fine in the moment. Gotta work on that, though I'm not sure how to go about it exactly. Is it as simple as driving my head down even more and focusing on pushing my butt forward?
I hope to post a video soon of improved form in the coming weeks.
The L-sit is fine, but the handstand needs a bunch of work. First, I need to continue working on keeping my arms as straight as possible. Much more difficult than it sounds when factoring in legs straight as possible, which I actually think I have down pretty well. But most troubling is the noticeable arch in my lower back. I never realized it was so severe because I feel fine in the moment. Gotta work on that, though I'm not sure how to go about it exactly. Is it as simple as driving my head down even more and focusing on pushing my butt forward?
I hope to post a video soon of improved form in the coming weeks.
Yes.
I understand what you're saying because I've been saying this for the past page. Post workout = lots of carbs and proteins for recovery.
You ought to read at least these articles on fasting before assuming fasting is somehow unhealthy:
http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html
http://www.leangains.com/2010/04/leangains-guide.html
Educate yourself before telling everyone else how wrong they are.
I will read them.
However, can someone please explain to me why people should deprive their bodies of food for hours on end to only feed themselves the same amount of calories as a person who consistently provides their body the same amount of protein, carbs, vtitamins, etc? Especially when they are doing intense physical activity for atleast an hour 4-5 days a week. Pardon my ignorance, but fasting just seems like a good way to fucking up your
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