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For those interested in Marathon, would this be a dealbreaker for you?

Would $40 dollars per Runner (character) be a dealbreaker for you?

  • No. I wouldn't mind it at all.

  • No, but I wouldn't exactly like it.

  • Possibly. The game would really have to look interesting for me to put up with $40 characters.

  • Likely. I can't support that level of greed.


Results are only viewable after voting.
At fun. You draw the line at what's fun for Marathon players.

If it's not fun, don't do it.

Insta win guns aren't fun.
No fun in looking at character rooster that costs $40 each. Will drive me nuts.

Even at $5 per character, it will be extremely annoying.

I want to pay once and be done with it. Weather it be $70 new game or flat gamepass fee or a battlepass.
 

CuNi

Member
Those comparisons are insanely bad.
It's not like comparing cars to each other that you just use to drive around.
People buy different cars for things you'd consider "Single-player content" if it were a game.
Nobody buys a Honda Civic and goes, "Yeah! Let me race a Ferrari with this!!", which would be a competitive example.

Games never are perfectly balanced, and the balance always gets skewed in the favor of one thing.
Take Overwatch as an Example, and how the Meta dramatically changed every Competitive Season.

So when you buy one Operator, and that one gets nerfed, or another one gets the lucky roll and is the Meta, your options are only to either spend the money too or be left out and stop playing the game.
If you'd be playing as your normal Operator and lose game after game, you wouldn't think "Oh well I tried, guess the other player was better", your thoughts would go to "fuck that shit, it's so unfair. They only won because they spend money on it!", which will eventually make you quit the game completely, because if you're not a whale or have an insane abundance of money, you have no incentive to dump money into a game just to have a level playing field.

At the end of the day, gaming is a hobby for the most of us, no matter how much we spend on our PCs or consoles and how many games we buy.
But we always pit "Cost" vs "Possible Entertainment" and if there were a game where you'd need to buy every operator for 40$, the player base would be there, but it'd be slim.
I mean, check out Overwatch 2. Completely changed game to predatory MTX, had new Heroes behind a battle pass, removed free Lootboxes, and see where it got them.
Right back to where they started with the recent announcement and re-introduction of Lootboxes.
 

Durandle

Neo Member
While this monetizing would put me off, the bigger reason to avoid it is that I actually grew up with, and enjoyed, the Marathon games, and this iteration is an insult to it's legacy.
 

IDKFA

I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Those comparisons are insanely bad.

It's a Men-In-Boxes thread. Are you surprised? This is the same person who believes extraction shooters will soon have their "Mario 64 moment" because people already take risks by watching NFL.



All NFL fans want their teams to win so that they can make the playoffs. The short NFL season (17 games) makes it so that every game matters. 56% of NFL teams don't make the playoffs.

The league is the most high stakes league in all of N American sports (not sure about soccer) which means risk, when delivered in a fun way, can have incredible mass appeal.


Their ideas and threads never make much sense. I'm actually convinced they're a master troll.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
No fun in looking at character rooster that costs $40 each. Will drive me nuts.

Even at $5 per character, it will be extremely annoying.

I want to pay once and be done with it. Weather it be $70 new game or flat gamepass fee or a battlepass.
Does it pain you to walk into a grocery store, car dealership, movie theater, restaurant, or GameStop?

There's too many scenarios where people embrace the a la carte model for this to a be a bridge too far. The resistance to this idea comes from ignorance and is not based in reality.
 
Does it pain you to walk into a grocery store, car dealership, movie theater, restaurant, or GameStop?

There's too many scenarios where people embrace the a la carte model for this to a be a bridge too far. The resistance to this idea comes from ignorance and is not based in reality.
What?

Stuff I buy from grocery store, I know whats in it. Same cannot be said about characters. How will I know if it will be fun to play?
 

justiceiro

Marlboro: Other M
Yeah, yeah, like each character plays that differently in a extraction shooter. Dude, if fighting games have a limit on how different each character plays, imagine a shooter!
 

Kronark

Member
I think it has more to do with conditioning and being used to a certain monetization model than anything.

If you look at single player games, you'll see gamers largely prefer asymmetry in encounter design as well. Enemies are almost always bigger, stronger, faster, with different abilities than the avatar you control as the player. Multiplayer has obviously shifted to asymmetry as well. Literally everyone likes it when it's implemented properly.

I actually don't think most people take issue with it in terms of Star Citizen either. I've genuinely never heard a Star Citizen hater say "I'll check this out once they give everyone access to all the same ships all the time." I don't think that's ever been said because people know how naturally cool it is to board the Death Star as Luke Skywalker.


The dynamics we're pitting against one another are "competitive integrity" vs "fun".

Fun wins 10/10 times. Nobody wants to play Olympic Karate Championships with the same character in order to see who's the best at pressing buttons. True competitive balance isn't that fun.


Again, you can always take an effective strategy too far. Proper implementation can lead to poor implementation and vice versa. I'd have to see extensive League of Legends player metrics over a length of time and talk to a few Riot developers before I could confidently make the claim you're making here.


I wouldn't label a company as resource rich as Bungie to be "bad at balance". The problem with Destiny is that they were working on a unique problem...putting PvE weapons from it's most popular mode into significantly less popular PvP modes. They won't have that issue with Marathon. In no world do I think the Escape from Tarkov, or Hunt Showdown developers are "better at balance" than a company like Bungie.

Sorry for the delay in replying here. Was down building a new rig yesterday, this ended up being a bit of an essay / ramble.

Fun is a weird thing to define or quantify because it will differ for each person.

Fun could represent the old Halo mindset of a 30 second gameplay loop that is engaging, repeatable, and variable. Fun could be an emergent gameplay sandbox were dynamic elements come together and create epic moments you half to describe to your friend the next day (Think Helldivers). Fun could be smashing your face into a Dark Souls / Elden Ring boss for 3 hours straight until you emerge victorious, but to another person fun is a really epic on rails boss fight sequence that is half cut-scene / half gameplay and heavily scripted. Fun could represent a veteran flexing their skillset so hard they go 25 - 0 against a new player, but to another player that could be boring as hell as they want to engage someone who can actually compete with them at their level. I don't think you can blanket appeal to "fun" as a vague concept. It's like saying games are best when you enjoy them.

I think you have to quantify fun into more specific subgenres, concepts, and ideas and then find people who align with those ideas. Players who enjoy action, players who enjoy multiplayer, players who enjoy puzzles, players who enjoy story, players who enjoy difficulty, etc. So the questions in this case are more along the lines of:

1) Can being locked into a specific character / class / weapon for a game be engaging as an idea? Is the limitation itself compelling in ways that open up depth in different ways?

2) Is there a large enough audience for it? This is a triple-AAA high budget game and niche won't cut it.

I think question 1 starts to get into questions about depth, growth, etc. Is this a character that has 3 abilities or is this a character that's as deep as a Street Fighter / Tekken character? If it's just a 3 ability character what are the options for depth? I could see large skill ceilings for a character with a teleport or grappling hook but it's going to depend on level composition, positioning, etc. On the other hand a character that has some dumb charge ability might have fuck all for depth. Can character A equip sub machine guns while character B can equip assault rifles and is one of those classes of weapons just straight up superior to the other... If yes, that's going to feel like dogshit immediately. Then you get into growth. Outside of skill and knowledge is there any inherent change in this character at 50 hours, 100 hours, etc or is it all skill ceiling? There's so many ways this can go and could be speculated but I would argue whatever way it goes, the depth has to be there and execution has to be flawless. This is not impossible but it is a high bar to clear.

Regarding question 2... I think most players aren't going to consider depth up front unfortunately. I think any multiplayer game today needs to be compelling in the first 15 minutes. People might stick with it and discover that depth but I think this is going to work against the game and the perception of the game in almost every scenario. $40 a character will be seen as greedy, even if Bungie executes perfectly. So I don't think the audience for this depth exists because they don't know who they are... This could become a new sub-genre but I would expect Marathon to rely heavily on other aspects of it that appeal until it cements itself.

I still personally think the competive integrity aspect is huge and an existing expectation amongst players. The expectation today in the western audience is that gameplay content is complete / included and cosmetics can be microtransactions. This is something Marathon would also have to compete against. So while the initial premise is possible, I think it's 100% an uphill battle to try and go down this route. It's going to require a lot of trust and good will from the community and execution has to be nailed.


Few side notes:

- It is true that some games are un-balanced on purpose just to rotate the meta, keep the game the feeling fresh, and promote characters / weapons that might be under utilized. This just increases the importance of availability and competitive integrity though. The community can stick with what they've mastered or rotate to and learn the new best thing. Keep doing this a few times and you end up with a player base that prefers a wider range of characters, weapons, abilities, etc. This makes matches feel different / dynamic and increases the overall health of the game. If you start to lock people into $40 purchases you'll end up with a lot of people that googled that X was the best character before buying them and now they're stuck on them. Every match has that character, 50% of players are playing that character, etc. I don't that's a healthy direction for any game to go.

- It's possible that the market closest to what you're suggesting is the Asian MMO market, where people invest heavily in their characters, everything is pay to win, etc. I would say the western gaming market has clearly refused that direction of things. Lost Ark came here and flopped hard the second people realized just how stupid leveling your gear was when upgrade success rates got into the 5% window and just how tedious investing in one character was. I'm not saying you won't find a niche audience that might be interested. I'm just saying I don't think the average gamer will be.

- I would absolutely blast Bungie for how they responded to their meta and handled crucible. You can not leave seriously unbalanced weapons to dominate the meta for 4+ months before a patch under or over nerfs them. You need to respond to your community at the very least bi-weekly in today's market. The crucible was constantly plagued by some dumb gimmick and Bungie would move like a snail to address anything. The year of stasis was hilarious especially because everyone saw stasis being an issue well in advance of the expansion coming out. Any other exploits were swiftly handled within hours though. Let's not forget Bungie treated PvP like trash, removing half of the maps from the game, promising reworks, delivering nothing, and then telling players who were paying $100 a year for the expansion + season that they just didn't have a single PvP map in the budget that year and hopefully next year we might get 1 map despite having 1000+ developers. I don't even know how you take a game with millions of players handing you over the cost of a deluxe edition new standalone game annually while producing barely any content for it that is heavily recycled assets and somehow end up in a position where you're not profitable. Bungie is an absolute joke of a Studio and should not be an example for the industry.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
I think question 1 starts to get into questions about depth, growth, etc. Is this a character that has 3 abilities or is this a character that's as deep as a Street Fighter / Tekken character? If it's just a 3 ability character what are the options for depth? I could see large skill ceilings for a character with a teleport or grappling hook but it's going to depend on level composition, positioning, etc. On the other hand a character that has some dumb charge ability might have fuck all for depth. Can character A equip sub machine guns while character B can equip assault rifles and is one of those classes of weapons just straight up superior to the other... If yes, that's going to feel like dogshit immediately. Then you get into growth. Outside of skill and knowledge is there any inherent change in this character at 50 hours, 100 hours, etc or is it all skill ceiling? There's so many ways this can go and could be speculated but I would argue whatever way it goes, the depth has to be there and execution has to be flawless. This is not impossible but it is a high bar to clear.
You've brought up a great point here. Something I didn't address at all in this thread.

An Extraction Shooter is a 200+ hour RPG. You literally take weeks / months to build your character from nothing into a high level character. That makes it very easy to see how people would NOT want to character switch all the time because most people wouldn't want to restart their progress.

Mario Kart, Overwatch, and Street Fighter are not. It wouldn't make sense for this model ($40 per character) to be implemented in those games because characters are naturally more shallow there. All those characters are already at "max level". They aren't RPG's.

Regarding question 2... I think most players aren't going to consider depth up front unfortunately. I think any multiplayer game today needs to be compelling in the first 15 minutes. People might stick with it and discover that depth but I think this is going to work against the game and the perception of the game in almost every scenario. $40 a character will be seen as greedy, even if Bungie executes perfectly. So I don't think the audience for this depth exists because they don't know who they are... This could become a new sub-genre but I would expect Marathon to rely heavily on other aspects of it that appeal until it cements itself.
Marathon (any multiplayer game) needs to be compelling initially no matter what payment model they go with. I don't think anyone actually buys games as presented here. People buy games simply based on expected value per dollar spent, not "Do I get everything" for 40 dollars. Again, we're conditioned to accept the a la carte model in so many aspects of our lives that I think it' funny how people think it wouldn't work here. Star Citizen proves people love the concept if it's implemented properly.

I still personally think the competive integrity aspect is huge and an existing expectation amongst players. The expectation today in the western audience is that gameplay content is complete / included and cosmetics can be microtransactions. This is something Marathon would also have to compete against. So while the initial premise is possible, I think it's 100% an uphill battle to try and go down this route. It's going to require a lot of trust and good will from the community and execution has to be nailed.
The Extraction Shooter really isn't about competitive integrity. This is an RPG genre, not a competitive genre. The genre naturally pits players at different points of progression against one another. A person 15 hours into a wipe will already be going up against players 300 hours into a wipe. Players naturally have body armor, weapon, ammo, and health advantages in this genre. There's also something called "Scav runs" in these games where you take nothing into a server and play like a rat trying to avoid conflict while accruing as many resources as safely as possible.

The competitive integrity argument doesn't hold water.

Few side notes:

- It is true that some games are un-balanced on purpose just to rotate the meta, keep the game the feeling fresh, and promote characters / weapons that might be under utilized. This just increases the importance of availability and competitive integrity though. The community can stick with what they've mastered or rotate to and learn the new best thing. Keep doing this a few times and you end up with a player base that prefers a wider range of characters, weapons, abilities, etc. This makes matches feel different / dynamic and increases the overall health of the game. If you start to lock people into $40 purchases you'll end up with a lot of people that googled that X was the best character before buying them and now they're stuck on them. Every match has that character, 50% of players are playing that character, etc. I don't that's a healthy direction for any game to go.
I don't think this would be an issue considering Bungies resources and the ability to hotfix balance updates at a quick cadence. I know in The Finals, the H class has long had the highest win rate and the lowest pick rate. The L class (three classes total) has the highest pick rate and the worst win rate. If characters are 40 dollars, and Bungie cares about win rates, I don't think you'd have a problem of everyone buying one character. True competitive balance is a chess board where each player has the same pieces. True competitive balance is Ryu vs Ryu in Street Fighter. Gamers generally reject true competitive balance.

Plus, you have to think about it. If I've played a character that I like 200 hours, and people are starting to play the new "meta" character at hour 0...good luck.

- It's possible that the market closest to what you're suggesting is the Asian MMO market, where people invest heavily in their characters, everything is pay to win, etc. I would say the western gaming market has clearly refused that direction of things. Lost Ark came here and flopped hard the second people realized just how stupid leveling your gear was when upgrade success rates got into the 5% window and just how tedious investing in one character was. I'm not saying you won't find a niche audience that might be interested. I'm just saying I don't think the average gamer will be.
I don't think the West has rejected the model as much as they've warmed to the model at a slower rate. Star Citizen is a massive success that can't be ignored.

League of Legends has 170 characters.

- I would absolutely blast Bungie for how they responded to their meta and handled crucible. You can not leave seriously unbalanced weapons to dominate the meta for 4+ months before a patch under or over nerfs them.
I don't because I think Bungie learned early on that the PvE mode is Destiny's breadwinner. I suspect the PvP portion of Destiny 2 has always been a distant revenue generator and Bungie simply devoted resources to what makes them money. Weapon / character balancing is well within Bungies capability.

I think much of the pushback here comes from NeoGAFians who simply haven't played or thought about the Extraction Shooter genre enough.
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
When we're talking about markets and overall trends, it's not useful to bring up the anecdotal outlier. We know most people didn't finish Dark Souls Remastered and Resident Evil Remake. You are at the extreme end of the bell curve. We're talking about entire populations here, not you.


Which is why most people wouldn't spend $40 dollars on all 12 characters. Ferraris for the Ferrari people. Trucks for the truck people. This way, everyone is happy. This would be the a la cart model, a model that is already supported by earths population in any number of industries. There's no reason why gaming should be excluded. Heck, you already do this with your single player games. You buy them a la cart.

Very illogical thinking. Escape from Tarkov already charges you $40 dollars for a single character. The premise posed in the OP would allow anyone who paid for a Runner to enter the game world of Marathon. Escape from Tarkov already does this only they don't create additional characters to buy.

Why would allowing players who spent $40 dollars to play, limit the potential player base anymore than Escape from Tarkov? That's very illogical thinking.

The illogical thinking here is on your side, I'm afraid, and the overwhelming pushback you've had on the thread is an indicator. You keep saying 'a la carte' like it's a killer answer, but it isn't. The real 'a la carte' experience in gaming is the marketplace itself (as it is with all marketplaces you've mentioned), where you decide to spend your money on what you want. A game that offers you an online multiplayer experience for free and includes 12 player characters out-of-the-box is going to appeal to a wider number of people than a game that offers one player character for $40.

Were this an actual restaurant menu, your game is now an overpriced entree that only a handful of people would bother with. An online multiplayer game that charges $40 for everything in 2025 is considered overpriced by the bulk of players, yours is considered astronomical. Saying 'you could get hundreds of hours of play time' won't change that. You can get thousands of hours on Fortnite, Warframe, Apex Legends, Genshin Impact, and many more.

Maybe Battle State Games makes this work, but they're a small-scale developer based in Russia running a highly niche, PC-only experience, not a Seattle-owned corporate giant targeting every mainstream platform on the market.
 
You’re comparing games to other things, like sporting events and paintball.

Consumers will compare games with other games, and the idea of spending $40 to unlock each character is a completely over the line idea within the medium.

Marathon should have all the hero’s available for free; and will make their live service money by selling cosmetics for those hero’s. It’s the system that works, and the one that’s been accepted by consumers.

If they did what you described it would be a Battlefront 2 level unmitigated disaster of a release.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
The illogical thinking here is on your side, I'm afraid, and the overwhelming pushback you've had on the thread is an indicator.
This is easy to prove wrong.

Every GAAS poll that allows voters to reject GAAS in favor of the "old model" results in the same distribution. There is no chance that 186 NeoGAF memebers are "Interested in Marathon". The poll is 90% insecure "traditional model" gamers who resent the possibility of GAAS finding new revenue streams that will lead to further GAAS growth.

You keep saying 'a la carte' like it's a killer answer, but it isn't. The real 'a la carte' experience in gaming is the marketplace itself (as it is with all marketplaces you've mentioned), where you decide to spend your money on what you want.
This is old mentality. This is someone clinging on desperately to reject the "Games as the Platform" moniker that everyone in the industry has been using for 10 years now. Todays gamers don't want to spend money on more games, they want to spend more money on the games they like. Every year a new class of 12 year olds enter the market and they overwhelmingly play GAAS or GAAP.

Were this an actual restaurant menu, your game is now an overpriced entree that only a handful of people would bother with.
That would depend entirely on how much fun a single character is to play in Marathon. Just as it's entirely dependent on how much gamers value playing as Link in the latest Zelda...or Alan Wake in Alan Wake 2. You're never going to get away from the fun per dollar spent ratio in entertainment. If the ratio works in any model, then the game itself will work.

An online multiplayer game that charges $40 for everything in 2025 is considered overpriced by the bulk of players, yours is considered astronomical. Saying 'you could get hundreds of hours of play time' won't change that. You can get thousands of hours on Fortnite, Warframe, Apex Legends, Genshin Impact, and many more.
F2P thrives in an area where the publisher doesn't think they can generate FOMO hype for their product. Epic Games undervalued Fortnite because they thought it looked like a "kiddie PUBG".
P2P thrives in an environment where the publisher thinks they can generate FOMO hype for their product. Helldivers 2 showed us that a lot of people didn't want to miss out on the zeitgeist of that game.

Maybe Battle State Games makes this work, but they're a small-scale developer based in Russia running a highly niche, PC-only experience, not a Seattle-owned corporate giant targeting every mainstream platform on the market.
One thing that I find so funny, is how people will ignore logic, history, and common sense if it doesn't align with their preferences. GAAS is a relatively new concept in gaming. We're early days into understanding the rules. The idea that single player gamers know what GAAS can / will become holds no water. The single player mindset has been proven time and time again to be wrong when it comes to this. It's like asking a group of people who are into indie rock how popular they think hip hop will become in the mid 90's. A lack of understanding human nature is rife in this thread.

Henry Ford was right. "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses."
 
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Wonko_C

Member
This is a problem I have with DLC pricing overall: I feel pricing is not proportionate to the cost of the base game for what they generally give you.

Even yearly character passes for fighting games feel like a scam, take Street Fighter 6 for example: Base game costs $60 with an initial roster of 18 characters, lots of game modes, several stages, music, etc. And they want to charge $30 for just 4 new characters? That's half the price of a full game for less than a quarter of the content you get. And that doesn't even include new stages/music/game modes. How is that fair to the consumer?

Same thing with single player DLC: You pay $60 for a 20-hour long game, then you have to pay $20 for a story DLC that lasts 1 hour at best? Why?
 
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BbMajor7th

Member
This is easy to prove wrong.

Every GAAS poll that allows voters to reject GAAS in favor of the "old model" results in the same distribution. There is no chance that 186 NeoGAF memebers are "Interested in Marathon". The poll is 90% insecure "traditional model" gamers who resent the possibility of GAAS finding new revenue streams that will lead to further GAAS growth.


This is old mentality. This is someone clinging on desperately to reject the "Games as the Platform" moniker that everyone in the industry has been using for 10 years now. Todays gamers don't want to spend money on more games, they want to spend more money on the games they like. Every year a new class of 12 year olds enter the market and they overwhelmingly play GAAS or GAAP.


That would depend entirely on how much fun a single character is to play in Marathon. Just as it's entirely dependent on how much gamers value playing as Link in the latest Zelda...or Alan Wake in Alan Wake 2. You're never going to get away from the fun per dollar spent ratio in entertainment. If the ratio works in any model, then the game itself will work.


F2P thrives in an area where the publisher doesn't think they can generate FOMO hype for their product. Epic Games undervalued Fortnite because they thought it looked like a "kiddie PUBG".
P2P thrives in an environment where the publisher thinks they can generate FOMO hype for their product. Helldivers 2 showed us that a lot of people didn't want to miss out on the zeitgeist of that game.


One thing that I find so funny, is how people will ignore logic, history, and common sense if it doesn't align with their preferences. GAAS is a relatively new concept in gaming. We're early days into understanding the rules. The idea that single player gamers know what GAAS can / will become holds no water. The single player mindset has been proven time and time again to be wrong when it comes to this. It's like asking a group of people who are into indie rock how popular they think hip hop will become in the mid 90's. A lack of understanding human nature is rife in this thread.

Henry Ford was right. "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses."
Being that you're very excitable about logic, let's evaluate:

"The poll is 90% insecure "traditional model" gamers..." Ipse dixit + strawman.

"This is someone clinging on desperately from acceptance of the "Games as the Platform" moniker that everyone in the industry has been using for 10 years now." Another strawman - you don't know what other people are thinking.

"Todays gamers don't want to spend money on more games, they want to spend more money on the games they like." Ipse Dixit - Citation needed.

"If the ratio works in any model, then the game itself will work." Non-sequitur, those two statements are not a natural corollary.

"The idea that single player gamers know what GAAS can / will become holds no water." - ad hominem + appeal to authority. An argument is either well-structured and reasoned or it's not - doesn't matter if you spent the morning playing Fortnite or The Witcher 3.

"The single player mindset..." Fallacy of composition or division, depending on how you look at it. Playing single-player games has no direct rational input on how an individual feels about GAAS. Some will like it, some won't, others will be indifferent.

"Henry Ford was right." Appeal to authority.

I'll stop there. There are at least ten more but I have other things to do with my day. What never fails to be a true axiomatic statement (more reliable than the law of identity) is that people who harp on logic rarely understand it. Rather they think of it as a personal gift they possess and others don't. I can promise you, that a first-year philosophy course would turn you inside out.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
Even yearly character passes for fighting games feel like a scam, take Street Fighter 6 for example: Base game costs $60 with an initial roster of 18 characters, lots of game modes, several stages, music, etc. And they want to charge $30 for just 4 new characters? That's half the price of a full game for less than a quarter of the content you get. And that doesn't even include new stages/music/game modes. How is that fair to the consumer?

Same thing with single player DLC: You pay $60 for a 20-hour long game, then you have to pay $20 for a story DLC that lasts 1 hour at best? Why?
It's not. People can only charge what they can get away with.

Consider the difference in selling a Street Fighter character vs selling a Marathon character.

There is no long form progression in Street Fighter. There would be in Marathon.
The maps in Street Fighter are 2D planes with different visual backgrounds. The maps in Marathon are (hopefully) complex, large, intricate, interactable levels.

You're comparing access to the kiddie pool vs access to the ocean.
 

Wonko_C

Member
It's not. People can only charge what they can get away with.

Consider the difference in selling a Street Fighter character vs selling a Marathon character.

There is no long form progression in Street Fighter. There would be in Marathon.
The maps in Street Fighter are 2D planes with different visual backgrounds. The maps in Marathon are (hopefully) complex, large, intricate, interactable levels.

You're comparing access to the kiddie pool vs access to the ocean.
It's still $40 for a single character when the full game is $60. A single character should cost $1 at most.
 

Spiral1407

Member
A gacha game relies on gambling to get what you want.

This model is superior because you get what you purchase.

This is irrefutable.
You're ignoring the psychological elements here. The reason why gacha is so successful is because:
  • There is no initial investment.
  • The real pricing is often hidden.
  • There's technically always a chance to get what you want.
With your system, the real pricing is no longer hidden and people are required to pay to even play anything. That's just not going to fly with modern consumers, who are used to grinding for in-game currency and paying for microtransactions. They will see that price and run.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
With your system, the real pricing is no longer hidden
This is a good thing.
and people are required to pay to even play anything.
Like how most games are monetized, yes.
That's just not going to fly with modern consumers, who are used to grinding for in-game currency and paying for microtransactions. They will see that price and run.
There are too many counter examples that disprove this.
 

Filben

Member
First, don't give them any ideas. Second, to address your red edit, just because there are other instances with corporate greed doesn't mean it's cool to apply to video games. Yeah, I'm not rich enough to drive a Ferrari in real life so please just let me do this in a virtual world without applying same standards of real life and the need to pay extra to drive that car in a game, too... because you know, video games aren't real life. It's supposed to be escapism, power fantasies, to enable self-efficacy you maybe cannot in real life. All these things mentioned exist because corporations figure there are people willing (and able) to buy these sort of things, sometimes even make them artificially expensive because of a name, not because of the materials. Please let video games (mostly) one of the rare areas where these things don't happen. It's bad enough publishers started this early release/access shit for people paying premium. It's exactly the same thing. They figured some people have enough money or simply won't care about spending 20 bucks more for three days earlier gaming. Soon we will have the same shit you mentioned in the edit. No thank you.

So no, this model sucks. Doesn't matter if it exists in other areas.
 
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Men_in_Boxes

Snake Oil Salesman
First, don't give them any ideas.
This is the story of the thread.

It's water rising up to the levee, and if / when it breaks, there's no going back.

I can respect it if that's your argument, but to suggest that it's not possible is a complete misunderstanding of how gamers play games. An error of elementary proportions. A crime for the thinking individual.
 
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