Support NeoGAF

[Alpha Centauri]

What's this bullshit about white privilege??? And "rape culture"?!? Please...

This "bullshit" is that the Justice System is under increased scrutiny (rightly so), and is supposed to be making a vested effort to stand up and treat rape as seriously as it should be. However this judge just can't help but feel sorry for the male perpetrator and not the victim.

The other "bullshit" is when have you ever heard of this for a minority perpetrator? Judges are putting black people in jail for 10 years for non-violent drug possession with personal use intent. This guy is convicted of rape and doesn't even get a sentence.

The American Justice System is rehabilitative for a certain type of person. It is a cycle of evil for everyone else .

 

[HStallion]

The answer is still yes. Mental illness comes in all degrees, forms and sizes. Until we progress drastically on understanding it and (obviously even more difficult) rehabilitating it then we are doing ourselves a horrible disservice as a society. After we make strides in rehabilitation instead of giving a thin emotional verdict to cases of extreme crime, then we can better prevent it before it happens. Not to mention turn a horrible tragedy into something positive every time we are successful.

I don't know. While I think the attempt should be made, there are some folks who are just criminally insane. I don't think a serial killer is ever going to really adapt back to society. Give it a shot but it should become rather quickly if someone that far gone is every going to want to learn how to live in modern society.

 

[Pizoxuat]

20 years probation tells me third judge expects him to rape again, but next time he'll feel better about sentencing this poor rapist who golly gosh didn't realize that rape hurts people.

Rehabilitate nonviolent offenders. Protect the public from rapists.

 

[bman94]

Fucking bullshit. He's old enough to own up to his foolish actions. This is basically a slap on the wrist saying "don't do that". The audacity of the judge and this sentence. Piece of shit.

 

[ZOONAMI]

20 years to life of probation is a very long probation sentence and probation is very difficult, and the workhouse is still punishment, even if you can leave during the day. 5pm to 8am or so lockup for 2 years and 20+ years of probation is still punishment.

I do think some prison time would have been appropriate, or at least a solid 2 years in county jail without work release plus probabtion would have been more appropriate.

An indeterminate prison sentence (Colorado law this could theoretically be life in prison with a 6 year minimum), does seem a bit strange. If you are never deemed fit for release, you may never be released. And 6 years in prison might fuck you up to the point of never being fit for release, or you might be shivved or beat to death for being a rapist. I can see why it gave the judge pause.

If it isn't giving other judges pause in Colorado for the same exact sex assault 3rd degree felony charge, then yes, there's a problem here. But I don't think a shift in general towards rehabilitation and away from long term prison sentences, is a bad thing, in general, especially when the prison sentence is literally indeterminate, or could be a death sentence. That's how fucked up our prisons are. You have some judges who are being more progressive, and honestly that isn't a bad thing. As long as these judges aren't throwing the book at a minority convict, and being light on white convicts, for the exact same charges.

 

[TheOMan]

What's this bullshit about white privilege??? And "rape culture"?!? Please...

Ummmm...can you point to a case where a minority was in a similar situation and got a slap on the wrist?

 

[Netherscourge]

I agree with the judge, rehabilitation should be prioritized over punishment.

He should be rehabbed in prison.

 

[Giant Panda]

He should have had straight up prison time but 20 years probation is pretty intense too from what I have read about the probation process.

 

[Brakke]

Ummmm...can you point to a case where a minority was in a similar situation and got a slap on the wrist?

The guy you quoted is a clown, but the way we settle questions of institutional injustice is not to match anecdote for anecdote.

 

[QuantumBro]

An indeterminate prison sentence (Colorado law this could theoretically be life in prison with a 6 year minimum), does seem a bit strange. If you are never deemed fit for release, you may never be released. And 6 years in prison might fuck you up to the point of never being fit for release, or you might be shivved or beat to death for being a rapist. I can see why it gave the judge pause.

The law is also almost guaranteed to be racist too. This kid would've gotten out in 10 or less, but a black or latino guy in his 30's probably would be in there for a few decades for the same crime.

How did such a stupid law get passed?

 

[Blueboys1306]

"White privilege" is a term used to refer to privileges white people received that people of other races do not. One example, as shown here, would be the phenomenon of sometimes receiving abnormally lenient sentences for heinous crimes.

"Rape culture" is a term referring to cultural acceptance of or indifference to rape and sexual assault in comparison to the response to other crimes of similar magnitude. One example, also as shown here, would be the phenomenon of rapists sometimes receiving abnormally lenient sentences because a judge does not want to ruin a young man's life for a simple mistake.

So how is this helped because of his perceived "white privilege"? And rape culture is ridiculous! I've seen people commit murder and get 5-10 years. How is 5-10 years fair justice when they've taken another persons life?

 

[Dai101]

It must be really nice to be a white male.

 

[Blueboys1306]

Ummmm...can you point to a case where a minority was in a similar situation and got a slap on the wrist?

Slap on the wrist? Did you read what sentence he got? Would you like him to be given the death penalty? What he did was totally wrong. No doubts there. But to say it's cause he was white that he "got a slap on the wrist" in insane!

 

[Nastrodamous]

oh look at that another white dude doesn't have to go to jail. When are the white leaders going to condemn these actions we need some accountability.

 

[Stinkles]

Slap on the wrist? Did you read what sentence he got? Would you like him to be given the death penalty? What he did was totally wrong. No doubts there. But to say it's cause he was white that he "got a slap on the wrist" in insane!

If you can find a similar sentence for a 22 year old black guy getting a similar sentence for raping a white girl - and google should make that research trivial - I'll be excited to read it. Bonus points if he's not on an "important" sports team.

 

[B1gg_Randall]

Fucking bullshit. He's old enough to own up to his foolish actions. This is basically a slap on the wrist saying "don't do that". The audacity of the judge and this sentence. Piece of shit.

Yep!!! This is so fuck up.

 

[ZOONAMI]

The law is also almost guaranteed to be racist too. This kid would've gotten out in 10 or less, but a black or latino guy in his 30's probably would be in there for a few decades for the same crime.

How did such a stupid law get passed?

I was going to say probably a Republican state legislature, but it looks like senate is repug and house is dem, so split. May have been Republican controlled when it was passed. Or dems stupidly went along with it. They dont wann look soft on crime of course. Could have been some weird measure in a largely unrelated bill too, who knows. Reeks of the prison lobby though.

 

[Media]

So how is this helped because of his perceived "white privilege"? And rape culture is ridiculous! I've seen people commit murder and get 5-10 years. How is 5-10 years fair justice when they've taken another persons life?

Could you please explain why rape culture is ridiculous?

Murder sentences are subjective to circumstance but everyone agrees murderers should punished. Rapists are notorious for getting slaps on the wrist, especially if they are white and rich.

Probation, no matter how long, is a slap on the wrist when some people (namely black men) are put in prison for 20 years for the same crime.

This case specifically shows rape culture. It's the only crime where the victim is put on trial more than the accused.

Please educate yourself, because junior bans are permanent. The kind of thinking you are displaying perpetuates rape culture

 

[Wowfunhappy]

I agree with the judge, rehabilitation should be prioritized over punishment.

Yeah. My opinion has always been, the reason we put people in jail is because they have proven themselves to be a danger to society. Punishment shouldn't factor into it, because it's ultimately vindictive.

That's the theory, not necessarily the reality, but I do think it's what we should work toward.

THAT ISN'T TO SAY that we don't have problems with rapists receiving lighter punishments in comparison to other crimes... but two wrongs don't make a right, so to speak. Whenever one of these stories comes up and people start shouting "how dare they not give him a harsher sentence", that just isn't a campaign I can get behind.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Slap on the wrist?

Yes, a slap on the wrist for the crime of rape

20 years to life on probation and 2 years in the Boulder County Jail on a program that will allow him to leave jail during the day to work or go to school

That ain't shit, and people can blow smoke out their ass all they want about how to rehabilitate the poor kid, but examining his behavior during the trial

Wilkerson took the stand during the trial and testified that the victim was not drunk and that they engaged in consensual sex, but prosecutors have pointed out he made contradictory statements before the trial and during his pre-sentence report.

"Through his testimony, the defendant essentially called the victim a liar," the memo read. "The defendant sat and listened as the people he hired to act on his behalf argued to malign the victim by claiming that the victim accused the defendant of raping her in a petty attempt to avoid anger from her parents about her grades in school."

Maybe throwing him under the jail would be a good start to teach him the consequences of his actions, not something that lets his rapist ass out amongst the general public whenever he wants.

 

[stonesak]

If you can find a similar sentence for a 22 year old black guy getting a similar sentence for raping a white girl - and google should make that research trivial - I'll be excited to read it. Bonus points if he's not on an "important" sports team.

Here you go.

Edit: Noticed you qualified it with white girl. Will try again. Not trivial because of rape shield laws to find race of the victim.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Here you go.

Edit: Noticed you qualified it with white girl. Will try again.

That's going to be tougher.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Yeah. My opinion has always been, the reason we put people in jail is because they have proven themselves to be a danger to society. Punishment shouldn't factor into it, because it's ultimately vindictive.

That's the theory, not necessarily the reality, but I do think it's what we should work toward.

THAT ISN'T TO SAY that we don't have problems with rapists receiving lighter punishments in comparison to other crimes... but two wrongs don't make a right, so to speak. Whenever one of these stories comes up and people start shouting "how dare they not give him a harsher sentence" that just isn't a campaign I can get behind.

Mostly agree. There is some evidence of punishment as a detterent, but it's fairly shaky. You would think the death penalty would cut down on capital crimes, iirc from law school, the evidence suggests it doesnt.

But you do still have to take into consideration punishment for the sake of the victim, which is basically eye for an eye, but that is basically a long engrained reality in our criminal justice system, consideration for the victim and the victims family and community. The community aspect has become backwards though, as throwing people into prison for years sort of destroys communities, when fathers and mothers and thrown away for years at a disproportionate level within a given community, it kind of fucking things up, regardless if the victim is from the same "community" or not, a community is kind of getting fucked. So yeah punishment often doesn't make sense to satisfy a victim if you essentially creating other victims by putting their parents in prison for years.

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

I agree with the judge, rehabilitation should be prioritized over punishment*.

*if you are white

 

[Stinkles]

Here you go.

Edit: Noticed you qualified it with white girl. Will try again. Not trivial because of rape shield laws to find race of the victim.

I didn't qualify it with a white girl. History and the legal system did that for me.

 

[constantstatic]

Did I read that wrong or does he not even have to register as a sex offender?

 

[Haint]

This "bullshit" is that the Justice System is under increased scrutiny (rightly so), and is supposed to be making a vested effort to stand up and treat rape as seriously as it should be. However this judge just can't help but feel sorry for the male perpetrator and not the victim.

The other "bullshit" is when have you ever heard of this for a minority perpetrator? Judges are putting black people in jail for 10 years for non-violent drug possession with personal use intent. This guy is convicted of rape and doesn't even get a sentence.

The American Justice System is rehabilitative for a certain type of person. It is a cycle of evil for everyone else .

The law is also almost guaranteed to be racist too. This kid would've gotten out in 10 or less, but a black or latino guy in his 30's probably would be in there for a few decades for the same crime.

How did such a stupid law get passed?

Ironically not too long ago there was like a 30yo black 'gaffer who made a thread suggesting he fingered and/or was fellated/jobbed by a 14yo white girl, was arrested for it, and IIRC either received no punishment, or perhaps a wrist slap (probation or public service).

 

[boiled goose]

Im all for lenient sentencing and rehabilitation... but justice system is not equal.

Powerless crushed.

Was this guy white?

 

[ZOONAMI]

Did I read that wrong or does he not even have to register as a sex offender?

I didn't see that anywhere. He's convicted of felony sexual assault. He will be a registered sex offender.

 

[constantstatic]

I didn't see that anywhere. He's convicted of felony sexual assault. He will be a registered sex offender.

I would hope so still seems too lenient of a sentence.

 

[Dai101]

Was this guy white?

 

[ThatGayWolf]

What's this bullshit about white privilege??? And "rape culture"?!? Please...

Lmao not interested in losing that junior status are you?

This is pretty clearly the result of both at work, both in the influences leading to the crime and the outcome, both the sentencing and straight up victim blaming.

 

[Brakke]

Yes, a slap on the wrist for the crime of rape

That ain't shit, and people can blow smoke out their ass all they want about how to rehabilitate the poor kid, but examining his behavior during the trial

Maybe throwing him under the jail would be a good start to teach him the consequences of his actions, not something that lets his rapist ass out amongst the general public whenever he wants.

"Whenever he wants"?

 

[- J - D -]

Fuck this. Where was the lenience for Brian Banks?

 

[adamsappel]

"I've struggled, to be quite frank, with the idea of, 'Do I put him in prison?'" Butler said, adding that he spoke to people in the prison and jail system about what kind of treatment Wilkerson would receive.

They told him Wilkerson would be raped.

 

[Blueboys1306]

Lmao not interested in losing that junior status are you?

This is pretty clearly the result of both at work, both in the influences leading to the crime and the outcome, both the sentencing and straight up victim blaming.

Why? Because I don't agree with those 2 terms? I don't have to agree with the majority of people here. I'm allowed an opinion, right?

 

[Wowfunhappy]

But you do still have to take into consideration punishment for the sake of the victim, which is basically eye for an eye, but that is basically a long engrained reality in our criminal justice system, consideration for the victim and the victims family and community.

Like, I feel terrible for the victim of any crime, but how does throwing the perpetrator into jail (or killing him/her altogether) help make things better? Vengeance isn't something that we should be encouraging as a society. The fact that revenge is a tradition doesn't help matters.

 

[ZOONAMI]

Like, I feel absolutely terrible for the victim, of any crime, but how does throwing the perpetrator into jail (or killing him/her altogether) help make things better? Vengeance isn't something that we should be encouraging as a society. The fact that revenge is a tradition doesn't help matters.

Read the rest of my post.

 

[Media]

Why? Because I don't agree with those 2 terms? I don't have to agree with the majority of people here. I'm allowed an opinion, right?

You are allowed to have an opinion of course. But when it perpetuates a view that literally allows rapists to get away with their crimes easier (by ignoring rape culture) it's not something they generally allow on this forum. Do some research. Learn for yourself. Talk to rape victims about how the system treated them. Ask any female friends how they feel about it. Listen and learn.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I agree with the judge, rehabilitation should be prioritized over punishment.

Having a heart of gold is nice but rapists need to be held to account for their actions. He should be in prison. Not free to rape someone else.

The notion that imprisoning a rapist is vengeance is beyond my comprehension. Now if we as a society skinned him alive, that's vengeance. Jail isn't that.

 

[ThatGayWolf]

Why? Because I don't agree with those 2 terms? I don't have to agree with the majority of people here. I'm allowed an opinion, right?

It's not that you disagree, it's presenting that opinion in such a vitriolic way, especially with no argument at all to back it up.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

What was that onion article that forced the jury to envision the defendant as a 300 pound black man. We need that shit I swear....

 

[jWILL253]

You know... I would be willing to engage the whole "rehabilitation, not imprisonment" sentiment... if Blacks were to benefit from that as well as White people. But we aren't. And certainly not for fucking rape.

What's this bullshit about white privilege??? And "rape culture"?!? Please...

Looks like you've never lived life outside of 4chan.

 

[Blueboys1306]

You are allowed to have an opinion of course. But when it perpetuates a view that literally allows rapists to get away with their crimes easier (by ignoring rape culture) it's not something they generally allow on this forum. Do some research. Learn for yourself. Talk to rape victims about how the system treated them. Ask any female friends how they feel about it. Listen and learn.

I don't agree with those 2 terms. But I've never EVER said I'm happy for rapists to get away with anything. I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all. Other than that I'm not arguing against anything. I don't wanna stop the conversation though so I'll just shut up I guess...

 

[jWILL253]

I don't agree with those 2 terms. But I've never EVER said I'm happy for rapists to get away with anything. I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all. Other than that I'm not arguing against anything. I don't wanna stop the conversation though so I'll just shut up I guess...

Instead of running away because you don't want any criticism of your shit opinion, why don't you take the opportunity to learn about what white privilege & rape culture are?

 

[Dai101]

I don't agree with those 2 terms. But I've never EVER said I'm happy for rapists to get away with anything. I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all. Other than that I'm not arguing against anything. I don't wanna stop the conversation though so I'll just shut up I guess...

You don't need to agree. Those exist. PERIOD.

 

[Corronchilejano]

I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all.

After you've seen enough of sentences like these (and compare them to similar cases with black people), it's very hard not to see it as white privilege.

 

[ElNino]

Slap on the wrist? Did you read what sentence he got? Would you like him to be given the death penalty? What he did was totally wrong. No doubts there. But to say it's cause he was white that he "got a slap on the wrist" in insane!

20 years probation sounds like a lot (and it is), but I think probation itself is not that difficult depending on the terms, and is certainly far less life altering than prison. It is also quite likely to be cut in half with good behaviour.

 

[Media]

I don't agree with those 2 terms. But I've never EVER said I'm happy for rapists to get away with anything. I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all. Other than that I'm not arguing against anything. I don't wanna stop the conversation though so I'll just shut up I guess...

I don't want you to shut up. One of my main goals in life is educating people about rape culture, therefore helping prevent it. Rape culture does exist. It's not an opinion one can have anymore than its an opinion that gravity exists. Law enforcement tends to ignore rape victims. Rape kits tend to not even be tested. Law enforcement tends to take the 'they actually consented and just regret it' stance. Culture in America tends to take the 'Yeah but she sort of deserved it for drinking/dressing the way she did/having a sex life' stance. Almost everyone ignores male rape. Judges tend to be more lenient against rapists unless they raped 'the perfect victim' (usually young,,white, and a 'good girl'). Rape victims have their sexual history, social media, drinking/drug habits, etc dragged out during trails to 'prove' they wanted it.

All of these things are easily researchable. When 1 in 4 women in America are subject to sexual assault, you can't say there isn't a problem.

I don't want you to shut up, like I said. I want you learn, and to educate your friends. As the campaign says, 'It's on us.' If we don't educate people about consent and rape and rape culture, these things will never be fixed.


I'll let someone else discuss white privilege, as I've already gone on too long and have probably already bored you tears.

 

[Somnid]

About "learning lessons" and "slaps on the wrist". These seem more emotionally charged rather than based in something objective. Is there a provable link between sentencing and likelihood to rape again? My guts says no as this idea is generally been debunked for the death penalty, and I'd be surprised if any sizable number of rapes where caused by serial rapists but if anyone has actual information I'd be curious to see it because I certainly know nothing about it.