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[Blueboys1306]

I don't want you to shut up. One of my main goals in life is educating people about rape culture, therefore helping prevent it. Rape culture does exist. It's not an opinion one can have anymore than its an opinion that gravity exists. Law enforcement tends to ignore rape victims. Rape kits tend to not even be tested. Law enforcement tends to take the 'they actually consented and just regret it' stance. Culture in America tends to take the 'Yeah but she sort of deserved it for drinking/dressing the way she did/having a sex life' stance. Almost everyone ignores male rape. Judges tend to be more lenient against rapists unless they raped 'the perfect victim' (usually young,,white, and a 'good girl'). Rape victims have their sexual history, social media, drinking/drug habits, etc dragged out during trails to 'prove' they wanted it.

All of these things are easily researchable. When 1 in 4 women in America are subject to sexual assault, you can't say there isn't a problem.

I don't want you to shut up, like I said. I want you learn, and to educate your friends. As the campaign says, 'It's on us.' If we don't educate people about consent and rape and rape culture, these things will never be fixed.


I'll let someone else discuss white privilege, as I've already gone on too long and have probably already bored you tears.

I'm happy to have you educate me on anything I'm unsure about. I'm definitely not saying there isn't a problem at all. I don't want to be taken out of context. I'm definitely against rape of any type to anyone. But again, happy to be educated.

 

[Media]

I'm happy to have you educate me on anything I'm unsure about. I'm definitely not saying there isn't a problem at all. I don't want to be taken out of context. I'm definitely against rape of any type to anyone. But again, happy to be educated.

Start here:

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

I was wrong earlier, the statistics are not 1 in 4, it's 1 in 6. Still way, way too high. If you know six women, chances are one of them has been the victim of a sexual assault. It's very likely she won't have even reported the crime, because of the shame and stigma that surround rape victims.

I'm glad you are happy to be educated. As a survivor myself, this is a hugely important thing for me. I want the world my daughter grows up in to be safer than the one I grew up in. Every person who learns the truth and educates their peers and their children, and advocates for victims make a difference.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

 

[Blueboys1306]

Start here:

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/victims-sexual-violence

I was wrong earlier, the statistics are not 1 in 4, it's 1 in 6. Still way, way too high. If you know six women, chances are one of them has been the victim of a sexual assault. It's very likely she won't have even reported the crime, because of the shame and stigma that surround rape victims.

I'm glad you are happy to be educated. As a survivor myself, this is a hugely important thing for me. I want the world my daughter grows up in to be safer than the one I grew up in. Every person who learns the truth and educates their peers and their children, and advocates for victims make a difference.

https://www.rainn.org/statistics/criminal-justice-system

If I offended in any way, then I'm sorry. And I'm sorry you had to be a survivor. I couldn't imagine how horrific it would be to be a victim and have to live with it.

 

[Media]

If I offended in any way, then I'm sorry. And I'm sorry you had to be a survivor. I couldn't imagine how horrific it would be to be a victim and have to live with it.

You did not offend me, no worries. The rape culture that exists in this country leads a ton of well meaning people to think that rapes don't happen, and if the do they are the back alley stranger rapes, and that if not the woman is somehow to blame, or that rape is actually something that the justice system takes seriously. It's not your fault for thinking that way, since that's the culture you live in. It only becomes a problem when you learn the truth and plug your ears to it. Thanks for being so open to learn It's hard for people sometimes, especially men, because it feels like they are being blamed, so it's easy to get defensive. And since men honestly don't have the fear and don't 'see' it, it's easier to pretend the problem is less than what it is.

The same is true of white privilege. Because if you are poor and white, it's really hard to acknowledge any kind of privilege. You don't see it because you look around and say 'well, my life is kinda shit, so where's all my privilege?' But it's there, and it's not specifically your fault. It's the systems fault. And it manifests in everything from loan applications to not having to be afraid for your life when a cop pulls you over. I'm not as educated about that topic, but I'm sure one of our nicer members can help you there.

Again, thank so much for not digging your head into the sand. You are awesome, and can only get more awesome from here.

Forgive any typos, on mobile right now <3

 

[boiled goose]

And there it is.

I don't agree with those 2 terms. But I've never EVER said I'm happy for rapists to get away with anything. I just don't agree with lumping this sentence in with white privilege is all. Other than that I'm not arguing against anything. I don't wanna stop the conversation though so I'll just shut up I guess...

If it is demonstrated that white people get more lenient sentences for the same crimes on average then what's that but white privilege?

 

[Monocle]

To be fair, he's white and passably good looking. Therefore ordinary rules shouldn't apply, obviously.

 

[boiled goose]

To be fair, he's white and passably good looking. Therefore ordinary rules shouldn't apply, obviously.

There is also good looking privilege.

Interestingly what's considered good looking in our society is partially convoluted with race.

 

[Hip Hop]

Shit, absolutely.

No thanks,

Keep that in Sweden.

 

[DrunkShogun]

I've always been behind the idea of think of the victim as the victim. The judge isn't meant to think how to help the offender, he should be punished because at it stands, the victim received no justice and the offender is more or less unpunished.

 

[Sunster]

There are people serving life for possessing drugs.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

A recent survey showed 28 percent of female undergraduates at CU say they were sexually assaulted during their time on campus

Holy shit, that is a vile statistic. Are governments or police forces or universities or the justice system in general doing anything to tackle this?!

 

[Jokab]

Should we rehab murderers too?

Yep, for sure. Rehabilitation should be the end goal.

No thanks,

Keep that in Sweden.

What does this mean?

 

[Llyranor]

White rapist
Football program
White judge

Checks out. Disgusting.

 

[Ayato Kanzaki]

The answer is still yes. Mental illness comes in all degrees, forms and sizes. Until we progress drastically on understanding it and (obviously even more difficult) rehabilitating it then we are doing ourselves a horrible disservice as a society. After we make strides in rehabilitation instead of giving a thin emotional verdict to cases of extreme crime, then we can better prevent it before it happens. Not to mention turn a horrible tragedy into something positive every time we are successful.

But rehabilitation doesn't work with everyone, far from it, and when it doesn't, your approach only lead to more victims.

Prison as a detterent is also necessary, and there should be minimum prison sentences for all violent crimes, rape on a unconscious person included.

If the perpetrator really regret his actions, he will welcome a prison sentence to alleviate his guilt. If he doesn't, rehabilitation wouldn't have worked anyway and prison must be used to protect the rest of society from him.

 

[Kyzer]

Ummm isn't prison supposed to BE criminal rehab?

 

[azyless]

I'm glad another white male rapist gets to have a "bright future" while his victim deals with the consequences of being raped (and seeing her abuser not being punished) for the rest of her life.
Tell me again how rape culture doesn't exist.

 

[Pantaghana]

Ummm isn't prison supposed to BE criminal rehab?

Not in the US, it's more like punishment that also breaks you various ways that makes it difficult to leave the prison system. The wonders of for-profit private prisons never cease.

 

[Mechanized]

If he was black they would have thrown away the key. Hey instead of giving this piece of shit rehab, how about you pay for the all the psychological work the victim will need in order to just fucking function in day to day life again.

 

[Jokab]

If he was black they would have thrown away the key. Hey instead of giving this piece of shit rehab, how about you pay for the all the psychological work the victim will need in order to just fucking function in day to day life again.

Why not both?

 

[Zakalwe]

I agree with this in principle, but when it appears to be applied only in particular types of cases with particular types of perpetrators and victims, can you see why people would consider it a problem?

This.

Poor white-male rapists are the only guys who seemingly benefit from this consistently.

Those poor dudes, having their privileges revoked entirely would be far too harsh.

 

[NimbusD]

Not in the US, it's more like punishment that also breaks you various ways that makes it difficult to leave the prison system. The wonders of for-profit private prisons never cease.

And people are happy to just pretend that isn't the case, until it's someone they don't want to go there deserves to go there. Like in this case, a well off white jock deserves to go there. Then suddenly an absolutely more than appropriate prison sentence becomes something so horrific that he needs to be spared. As if the other people in there are somehow MORE vile than this price of shit.

It's crazy how shit like this can happen and does so often. I feel horrible for the victim and the lack of justice received even after such a prolonged fight to receive it. It was robbed from her like so much else.

 

[AzureRonin]

This is a perfect example of systemic racism.

The sentencing principles used by the Judge are sound. At least in Canada we view jail as a last result, jail really has no rehabilitative value. The problem is that these sentencing principles are stacked against minorities.

First time offenders with strong ties to the community are sentenced with that in mind. Unfortunately minorities are over policed, set up for poverty and their substance abuse is treated like a crime. So a minority who is standing in front of the court who may be in the same stage of life as the guy who got sentenced would be coming with a criminal record filled with petty over-policed crimes, issues surrounding poverty, perhaps substance abuse, plus no "positive" ties to the community such as college or employment. Then you have to overcome the biases of the actual judge.

They are just set up for failure in life. I find it discouraging that people just can't understand that principle.

Also did I read this right or isn't the guy still going to jail? It's just an intermediate sentence that lets him go to work and school. Plus 20 years probation? It's not a slap on the wrist... but it is not in line with how minorities are sentenced.

EDIT: However this is in view of traditional handling of rape cases, which I believe the justice system is in no way addressing appropriately. The psychological impact of rape is very different than other crimes.

 

[MANUELF]

Very lenient sentence considering there have been latinos sentenced to death for the same crime

 

[Mechanized]

Why not both?

Actions require consequences. If it was up to me he'd get the death penalty. Rape is something that changes you, your development as a person, it's something you have to live with your entire life and you are never the same. He has effectively taken a life, the person that would have been is gone. The only justice is to end him. Don't waste taxpayer money on the jail time, expenses, or in this case rehabilitation, for such a piece of shit.

 

[LiK]

I agree with the judge, rehabilitation should be prioritized over punishment.

They can do both you know.

 

[Htown]

People in here defending a rapist not going to jail. Why am I not surprised?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Rehabilitation has to be for people who are sent down the wrong path due to unique circumstances or societal and imstitutiomal failures. And for people who are committing largely harmless or self inflicted problems.

This guy doesn't rehabilitation. He knows what the fuck he did. He doesn't need a long journey towards knowing right from wrong and getting his life on track. He fucking knows what he did was wrong. He wasn't in a position to push him towards this. He's just a fucking piece of shit. Miss me with this help him out bullshit. People are rotting in prison for possession of weed. How the fuck does this guy need rehabilatiin?

 

[Seductivpancakes]

Slap on the wrist? Did you read what sentence he got? Would you like him to be given the death penalty? What he did was totally wrong. No doubts there. But to say it's cause he was white that he "got a slap on the wrist" in insane!

If he didn't get jail time, that's a slap in the wrist. If it was a black person, would have gotten 25 years to life.

 

[DedValve]

If I offended in any way, then I'm sorry. And I'm sorry you had to be a survivor. I couldn't imagine how horrific it would be to be a victim and have to live with it.

I'm glad that you are open to discussion and education that is far, faaaaaar more than many people.

One thing to note is that rape culture and white privilege isn't some "PC" thing used by sensitive people. Its a real thing that exists as clear as the sky is blue and the earth spins. Its infected almost every culture around the world and honestly America is one of the (and I say this in disgust) "better" places of rape culture specifically.

Almost no other case parades the victim through trials and in many cases rapists get off with far lenient sentences than they should for destroying a poor souls life. Those with the lenient sentences are almost always white. It presents a pattern. Why are white rapists getting off easier than black ones? Hell why are people of different ethnicities getting more time for narcotics related crimes compared to white rapists?

White culture exists and Media put it in a really fantastic way. White people are often blind to their privilege mostly because they can easily see far more privilege people than them. Privilege is a scale, just because someone is born with a gold spoon doesn't mean you weren't born with a silver one, just for being white. Its not something you should feel guilty about but its also not something to feel prideful for as your privilege comes at the expense of others.

My sisters had to use my white old mother to go around searching for apartments because it was disproportionately easier for them to get an apartment or at least set up an interview than if they did it themselves. Is it legal? Idk but neither is blocking my sisters of a room for being black. Is it fair? Hell no.

My mom found an apt within 6 months btw. After my sister spent almost 2 years searching. I learned a valuable lesson that even latinos (we are all puerto rican and my mom has a heavy accent despite being snow white) can be just as racist as American white folk. White privilege exists in almost every country.

 

[Tertullian]

What a handsome young rapist. Hopefully he still has a bright future ahead of him.

*pukes*

 

[Jokab]

Actions require consequences. If it was up to me he'd get the death penalty. Rape is something that changes you, your development as a person, it's something you have to live with your entire life and you are never the same. He has effectively taken a life, the person that would have been is gone. The only justice is to end him. Don't waste taxpayer money on the jail time, expenses, or in this case rehabilitation, for such a piece of shit.

Why is an eye for an eye the solution? Should we not value human life more than that, no matter how vile the person may be?

 

[DedValve]

Why is an eye for an eye the solution? Should we not value human life more than that, no matter how vile the person may be?

Going by his defense do you honestly believe he will learn his lesson from all this? Failing an ideal solution of rehabilitation and isolation from society then simply isolation from society will have to do. Until then we are letting a rapist on the streets who can very likely rape again.

Without proper rehabilitation he is a threat to society. Prison is supposed to be that but I agree we have a long ways to go on that front. We need to make a better prison system but that won't change the fact that he is still a threat to society.

 

[spookyfish]

This is a nice sentiment, but it seems like rape is the only crime that gets this consideration in America. That should tell you something.

Well, usually when it's perpetrated by a certain segment of the populations. Other groups don't get treated as well.

 

[Fallout-NL]

I agree with this in principle, but when it appears to be applied only in particular types of cases with particular types of perpetrators and victims, can you see why people would consider it a problem?

This.

The principal is sound, in theory, but there seems to be a certain brand of favoritism applied here...

 

[Jokab]

Going by his defense do you honestly believe he will learn his lesson from all this? Failing an ideal solution of rehabilitation and isolation from society then simply isolation from society will have to do. Until then we are letting a rapist on the streets who can very likely rape again.

Without proper rehabilitation he is a threat to society. Prison is supposed to be that but I agree we have a long ways to go on that front. We need to make a better prison system but that won't change the fact that he is still a threat to society.

In the post you quoted I was arguing against applying the death penalty in this case and the eye for an eye principle in general. In general in this thread I argue for rehabilitation over punishment. Ideally, that is. If he is deemed to be dangerous to society there should be a combination.

 

[The Kree]

We don't get soft on crime until it's time to punish white boys. That's how Dylan Roof ends up at Burger King after he shoots up a black church, while Philando Castile gets shot on site for attempting to show a cop the ID the cop asked to see.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Going by his defense do you honestly believe he will learn his lesson from all this? Failing an ideal solution of rehabilitation and isolation from society then simply isolation from society will have to do. Until then we are letting a rapist on the streets who can very likely rape again.

Without proper rehabilitation he is a threat to society. Prison is supposed to be that but I agree we have a long ways to go on that front. We need to make a better prison system but that won't change the fact that he is still a threat to society.

I don't agree with the sentencing but if I'm reading it correctly he's under probation for 20 years. That doesn't sound like it's a joke.

 

[DedValve]

I don't agree with the sentencing but if I'm reading it correctly he's under probation for 20 years. That doesn't sound like it's a joke.

I never said it was a joke but thats still not enough. His probation officer won't be with him 24/7 and theres no indication that he won't not rape again.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Going by his defense do you honestly believe he will learn his lesson from all this? Failing an ideal solution of rehabilitation and isolation from society then simply isolation from society will have to do. Until then we are letting a rapist on the streets who can very likely rape again.

Without proper rehabilitation he is a threat to society. Prison is supposed to be that but I agree we have a long ways to go on that front. We need to make a better prison system but that won't change the fact that he is still a threat to society.

Dude was suggesting death penalty though. I think that's pretty fucking extreme. I'm all for being hard on violent crime but death penalty really needs to used for extreme cases. And I'm not even against harsh sentencing. I largely am not interested in rehabilitating murderers and rapists.

Everyone knows this shit is wrong and entitely unnecessary. This isnt dealing drugs for money or stealing. These actions have zero relevant societal context behind them. Good looking gifted middle class white kids have zero reason to resort to crime at all, so when they rape someone what context is there for understanding?

But killing them? That's way the fuck extreme as well.

 

[Jokab]

Dude was suggesting death penalty though. I think that's pretty fucking extreme. I'm all for being hard on violent crime but death penalty really needs to used for extreme cases. And I'm not even against harsh sentencing. I largely am not interested in rehabilitating murderers and rapists.

Everyone knows this shit is wrong and entitely unnecessary. This isnt dealing drugs for money or stealing. These actions have zero relevant societal context behind them. Good looking gifted middle class white kids have zero reason to resort to crime at all, so when they rape someone what context is there for understanding?

But killing them? That's way the fuck extreme as well.

Do you think it's not possible to change from being an asshole to not being an asshole? It seems you do.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Do you think it's not possible to change from being an asshole to not being an asshole? It seems you do.

I think a major point of a justice system is to protect the public. I don't think making a murder or a rapist less likely to rape or murder actually protect us. Not when we can put them in a cell and be done with it. The dude isn't just an asshole. He's literally just a self entitled piece of shit who destroyed a defenseless persons sense of well being. For no reason at all.

"He wont do it again maybe if we try to help him". Eh no. And he had no reason at all to do it the first time. So why are we in dire need to help him not do the most basic shit?

 

[Ducarmel]

I don't agree with the sentencing but if I'm reading it correctly he's under probation for 20 years. That doesn't sound like it's a joke.

Anybody know what are the conditions or his probation?

It might still be a joke, if its unsupervised probation.

Affluenza kid did not get caught by his probation officer for a violation, it was a home video that did him in he could have still be walking free today otherwise. Also I'm not sure about Colorado law but violating probation often doesn't mean you automatically go to jail the Judge will have to rule if there was a violation and determine if you stay on probation of go to jail. So he can violate his probation whatever it is and a judge can simply excuse it and give him another chance.

 

[Kthulhu]

I think a major point of a justice system is to protect the public. I don't think making a murder or a rapist less likely to rape or murder actually protect us. Not when we can put them in a cell and be done with it. The dude isn't just an asshole. He's literally just a self entitled piece of shit who destroyed a defenseless persons sense of well being. For no reason at all.

"He wont do it again maybe if we try to help him". Eh no. And he had no reason at all to do it the first time. So why are we in dire need to help him not do the most basic shit?

Uh, no. Rehabilitation works, but you'd do need to couple it with punishment.

You shouldn't throw a person in jail for life unless it's necessary, and I don't think it is in this case, he should spend a reasonable time in jail so he can be punished and rehabilitated. That way he can contribute to society when he gets out.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Uh, no. Rehabilitation works, but you'd do need to couple it with punishment.

You shouldn't throw a person in jail for life unless it's necessary, and I don't think it is in this case, he should spend a reasonable time in jail so he can be punished and rehabilitated. That way he can contribute to society when he gets out.

I don't ahree because I don't see any actual reason why someone who commits murder needs to be reintroduced into society at all. I don't think society is dying for their contributions frankly. Rape, you need to serve a hefty sentemce. Not life but something significant.

Rehabilitation should be reserved for people who have fallen off a path in part because of socirtal issues, in part because of poor choices that arent irevrrsibly destructive to others. I'm not here trying to spemd dollars and resources for people who cant follow societies most basic rules.

I don't wanna live next to a murder because "oh he's harmless now". That doesnt make me feel safe.

 

[Kthulhu]

I don't ahree because I don't see any actual reason why someone who commits murder needs to be reintroduced into society at all. I don't think society is dying for their contributions frankly. Rape, you need to serve a hefty sentemce. Not life but something significant.

Rehabilitation should be reserved for people who have fallen off a path in part because of socirtal issues, in part because of poor choices that arent irevrrsibly destructive to others. I'm not here trying to spemd dollars and resources for people who cant follow societies most basic rules.

Then you don't understand human psychology very well. Rehabilitation works, locking people up forever implies we can't help them. If we can stop someone from committing crimes in the future, why shouldn't we?

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Then you don't understand human psychology very well. Rehabilitation works, locking people up forever implies we can't help them. If we can stop someone from committing crimes in the future, why shouldn't we?

If you are in jail for life due to murder what crime are you going to commit.

This dude. He probably will not rape anyone again. I can honestly say that. So has justice been served? Is society some how better?

 

[cyberheater]

How can you get convicted of raping someone and not go to jail. WTF.

 

[Kthulhu]

If you are in jail for life due to murder what crime are you going to commit.

Not every murder is worthy of life in prison. We shouldn't lock them up forever unless we need to.

Edit: here is an article on murder recidivism: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/once-a-criminal-always-a-criminal/

 

[excelsiorlef]

About "learning lessons" and "slaps on the wrist". These seem more emotionally charged rather than based in something objective. Is there a provable link between sentencing and likelihood to rape again? My guts says no as this idea is generally been debunked for the death penalty, and I'd be surprised if any sizable number of rapes where caused by serial rapists but if anyone has actual information I'd be curious to see it because I certainly know nothing about it.

So basically committing rape shouldn't be a prison sentence?

 

[Tall4Life]

Rehabilitation, most of the time, doesn't work. For 90% of the cases, people will change only if they want to change. This isn't some kind of inanimate evil that we can eradicate with rehabilitation. Most crimes aren't. He should be punished with jail instead. The way to reduce crime is to help diminish the causes of why people do crimes in the first place, whether it be improving their standard of living in cases of low level drug dealers or eliminating the current rape culture and misogyny that festers underneath society.