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[shira]

Is this going to stop a player's brain from hitting their own skull?

I'm pretty sure Godell just needs to make it seem like the NFL is "doing stuff" to combat CTE

They know they are fucked if the players start asking for money

 

[KHarvey16]

Well I am a lawyer admitted in Maine, Mass and Fl, own a law firm firm, practice civil law and generally pay attention to current legal precedence - so I think I’m qualified to give an opinion.

Of course you completely mistate what I said - I never said he couldn’t sue, only that his damages will be limited or nonexistent because of his own bad acts, aka killing people even assuming he can prove causation. Also, his conviction was vacated because of a procedural rule, but the substantive evidence would still be admissible. Also I believe his other conviction still stands.

The appeal is noteworthy because it means she is entitled to benefits from the NFL.

His convictions don't change the fact he committed suicide.

 

[Zeke]

If it's anything like boxing, the more cushion you add the more dangerous you probably make it.

Bring back the old school leather helmets! Anyway I really wonder how fast/soon the brain starts to show damage. One year, two years, months?

 

[aspiegamer]

I'd like to use this opportunity to shill for my personal solution to this crap in the NFL that will drag out the sport for another decade or two-- Crumble zone helmets deliberately designed to damage with head contact, the same way parts of a car deliberate deform to absorb impact. The NFL would never go for it because everyone on the field would need a dozen helmets per game and expose how bad the problem is instantly, unfortunately.

Why do people assume Rugby is worse? Taking the padding away would instantly make the NFL safer. This has been a known thing for ages. Tackles are lower impact at lower velocities and involve more body tackles. When the people who might be initiating the contact know they'd knock themselves out they don't do it. Hell, rugby has become a level of violence acceptable enough that even women get to play it in the olympics, breaking breaking one gender barrier of a sport "too violent" for them.

Bring back the old school leather helmets! Anyway I really wonder how fast/soon the brain starts to show damage. One year, two years, months?

This is fine. It's effectively no protection and would get players to behave. How long varies. Some evidence suggests even 1 severely traumatic impact can damage a brain permanently.

 

[TheContact]

NFL needs to do something about this. better helmets aren't enough

 

[ladyluthien]

Unfortunately not surprising.

My son won't be playing football, that's for sure.

When my husband was younger and in school, he used to play on the football team and get roughed up a bit. Well to make a long story short, one of the opposing team players aimed his helmet right into my husband's chest. Knocked him out and left this humongous purpleish insane colored bruise on his chest. When his mother saw, she forbid him from ever playing football.
I agreed with her, kids can always play gentler sports like soccer or basketball. Football can be so aggressive.

 

[Sato Koiji]

NFL needs to do something about this. better helmets aren't enough

CTE caused it. Chris Benoit?

Oh ninja edit I see

 

[Ninja Scooter]

NFL needs to do something about this. better helmets aren't enough

There is nothing they can do.

 

[g11]

Are CTEs a major problem in rugby too?

 

[Protein]

It's repetitive, smaller hits doing more damage than larger hits. Helmets won't do shit. Time to start dismantling this sport.

 

[shira]

There is nothing they can do.

 

[Brock Reiher]

Wouldn't no tackle solve the problem? Or would the O line alone still get tons of CTE

 

[Malvolio]

Are CTEs a major problem in rugby too?

A problem yes, but not to the same degree. Helmets, shoulder pads and the fact that passes in Rugby must be backwards probably can account for most of the difference.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

Man, not good.

I have been caring about Football less and less, and this is why.

 

[OriginofHysteria]

NFL needs to do something about this. better helmets aren't enough

Ironically, removing helmets might be the best option.

Also, it might be hard for the lawyer to win this case if Hernandez's past comes up. We all know the science behind CTE but his past also should not be ignored in the trial. Also I'm all for his daughter receiving money from the NFL, but the families of those who were killed should also lawyer up and sue the NFL as well.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Wouldn't no tackle solve the problem? Or would the O line alone still get tons of CTE

Honestly, removing helmets and shoulderpads would probably reduce concussions dramatically for RBs, WRs, LBs, and DBs. Defenders in this day and age have absolutely zero interest in properly tackling because the helmet and shoulderpads allow them to dive headfirst into players like a missile.

The main problem is what you just said, the O-linemen and Dline knocking the shit out of each other on every play. There would have to be fundamental changes to the game to fix that, and those changes wouldnt be met with a warm reception.

 

[timetokill]

This will be what ends the NFL as we know it, and honestly, it can't come soon enough

 

[GashPrex]

The appeal is noteworthy because it means she is entitled to benefits from the NFL.

His convictions don't change the fact he committed suicide.

Yes but the legal principle is essentially what love and affection have you lost if your husband was going to be in jail for the rest of his life for murdering people anyway. And good luck proving to a reasonable degree of medical certainty that CTE was the but for causation of his suicide, especially given he was going to be in jail for the rest of his life.

Maybe they settle to avoid a spectacle but I don’t see it

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

This will be what ends the NFL as we know it, and honestly, it can't come soon enough

There's too big of a market for it to go away, they'll just have to adapt to this.

They can either change the game to reduce brain trauma or come to some kind of financial agreement for the players when they retire.

Edit: Now that i think about it, yes you are correct.

 

[MugiwaraCole]

Ironically, removing helmets might be the best option.

Also, it might be hard for the lawyer to win this case if Hernandez's past comes up. We all know the science behind CTE but his past also should not be ignored in the trial. Also I'm all for his daughter receiving money from the NFL, but the families of those who were killed should also lawyer up and sue the NFL as well.

Again, not making excuses for him. But he played football a long time.

Football could've exacerbated his actions.

 

[Zeke]

There is no way for the NFL to change the game. There is no way to stop your brain from bouncing around in your skull. Short of the NFL being a professional flag football league there isn't anything to be done.

 

[Peltz]

Football is going to be over in 20-30 years.

Or changed drastically. Don't underestimate the power of parents.

Honestly, if it ends, it's just as well. Talented athletes would be better served putting their talents elsewhere. The evidence shows NFL players have an extremely poor quality of life.

As far as I'm concerned the sport is tarnished.

 

[aspiegamer]

CTE with football is sort of like how health risks with smoking use to be; You can no longer deny that it harms people and public reaction against it is slowly starting to build. The government could step in over there and look at all the regulations we have now. On the other hand, the ruling body of the NFL goes out of its way to pretend there is no problem. It's like if we'd have let the tobacco industry self-regulate.

NFL needs to do something about this. better helmets aren't enough

Yup. Bigger, thicker or what they say are "better" helmets will not help. You have to either absorb the impact of head contact or eliminate the chance of it. Deflection is not an answer. Even changing to flag football wouldn't in and of itself automatically fix anything.

 

[shira]

Wouldn't no tackle solve the problem? Or would the O line alone still get tons of CTE

No tackling means you don't need an O line or D line.

 

[offtopic]

A problem yes, but not to the same degree. Helmets, shoulder pads and the fact that passes in Rugby must be backwards probably can account for most of the difference.

They also have to wrap up to tackle - they (typically) don't use their body as a missile to just explode the ball carrier without using their arms.

edit: between this and the social justice hypocrisy being furthered by the nfl I am teetering on the edge of just not watching at all. Even now it is just an occasional 49ers game but it won't be too difficult to just boycott.

 

[offtopic]

dp

 

[thehypocrite]

There is nothing they can do.

They can shut it down.

 

[Raging Spaniard]

So ... Rugby, anyone?

 

[immortald3ath]

They can shut it down.

Lol okay. That's not gonna happen and I hope it never happens. Football!!!!

 

[shira]

So ... Rugby, anyone?

Can you imagine a rule where the scoring team gets the ball back in the NFL?

 

[Kill3r7]

So ... Rugby, anyone?

Give it time, I am sure there will be studies that show that any contact sport can lead to CTE.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

This will be what ends the NFL as we know it, and honestly, it can't come soon enough

No it won’t. They’ll keep trying to make it safer, but now that players know the risks the NFL can just add the lingo to new contracts.

I don’t want to see football go away, I do want to see it safer and I want to see players thoroughly warned about the risks. Also never let young kids play tackle football.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

Can you imagine a rule where the scoring team gets the ball back in the NFL?

You mean like a safety? =)

 

[shira]

No it won’t. They’ll keep trying to make it safer, but now that players know the risks the NFL can just add the lingo to new contracts.

I don’t want to see football go away, I do want to see it safer and I want to see players thoroughly warned about the risks. Also never let young kids play tackle football.

You can't just add "risk of permanent insanity and homicidal/suicidal tendencies" to a contract.

 

[andthebeatgoeson]

Science isn't hard.

Thanks to the many people who put a lot of hours into helping our society understand.

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v7/n9/full/tp2017197a.html?foxtrotcallback=true

Top of page
Abstract
Previous research suggests that age of first exposure (AFE) to football before age 12 may have long-term clinical implications; however, this relationship has only been examined in small samples of former professional football players. We examined the association between AFE to football and behavior, mood and cognition in a large cohort of former amateur and professional football players. The sample included 214 former football players without other contact sport history. Participants completed the Brief Test of Adult Cognition by Telephone (BTACT), and self-reported measures of executive function and behavioral regulation (Behavior Rating Inventory of Executive Function-Adult Version Metacognition Index (MI), Behavioral Regulation Index (BRI)), depression (Center for Epidemiologic Studies Depression Scale (CES-D)) and apathy (Apathy Evaluation Scale (AES)). Outcomes were continuous and dichotomized as clinically impaired. AFE was dichotomized into <12 and greater than or equal to12, and examined continuously. Multivariate mixed-effect regressions controlling for age, education and duration of play showed AFE to football before age 12 corresponded with >2 × increased odds for clinically impaired scores on all measures but BTACT: (odds ratio (OR), 95% confidence interval (CI): BRI, 2.16,1.19–3.91; MI, 2.10,1.17–3.76; CES-D, 3.08,1.65–5.76; AES, 2.39,1.32–4.32). Younger AFE predicted increased odds for clinical impairment on the AES (OR, 95% CI: 0.86, 0.76–0.97) and CES-D (OR, 95% CI: 0.85, 0.74–0.97). There was no interaction between AFE and highest level of play. Younger AFE to football, before age 12 in particular, was associated with increased odds for impairment in self-reported neuropsychiatric and executive function in 214 former American football players. Longitudinal studies will inform youth football policy and safety decisions.

The tl;dr (this is from the email i got)-

A neuropsychiatric assessment of former football players has found that those who began playing the sport before the age of 12 were more likely to report symptoms of depression and apathy decades later than those who started playing after they turned 12.

This association was independent of the players' current age, duration of football play, or history of learning disabilities, suggesting that age of first exposure to football is an independent risk factor for behavioral problems. The findings were published Tuesday in Translational Psychiatry.

----

Glad other research is happening. Fuck that, I want my kids to be positive functioning citizens. And since i have and my wife has had depression (already increasing my kid's risk), ain't no way in the world I'm letting them play football.

 

[entremet]

Science isn't hard.

Thanks to the many people who put a lot of hours into helping our society understand.

http://www.nature.com/tp/journal/v7/n9/full/tp2017197a.html?foxtrotcallback=true



The tl;dr (this is from the email i got)-

A neuropsychiatric assessment of former football players has found that those who began playing the sport before the age of 12 were more likely to report symptoms of depression and apathy decades later than those who started playing after they turned 12.

This association was independent of the players' current age, duration of football play, or history of learning disabilities, suggesting that age of first exposure to football is an independent risk factor for behavioral problems. The findings were published Tuesday in Translational Psychiatry.

----

Glad other research is happening. Fuck that, I want my kids to be positive functioning citizens. And since i have and my wife has had depression (already increasing my kid's risk), ain't no way in the world I'm letting them play football.

Literal child abuse. Youth football should be banned.

 

[Nomadic Sparks]

This will be what ends the NFL as we know it, and honestly, it can't come soon enough

Man, not good.

I have been caring about Football less and less, and this is why.

Aside from being salty af about the STL Rams and not having cable to see the NFL, it's been way more fun just engaging in other things that are not NFL/CFB related.

Being a special olympian and doing flag football is way more fun then watching the thing in person and way cheaper

 

[mercenar1e]

im pretty sure Georges St-Pierre has it as well. hes on the record talking about alien encounters and losing track of time.. sometimes hours of no memory. i cant believe the UFC is having him fight Bisping.

Joe Rogan talking about it a few days ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSEMU76e6OI&t=6m40s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohznvzcMft8&t=3m50s

 

[old manatee]

I'd put money down that CTE is what happened to OJ.

 

[timetokill]

No it won’t. They’ll keep trying to make it safer, but now that players know the risks the NFL can just add the lingo to new contracts.

I don’t want to see football go away, I do want to see it safer and I want to see players thoroughly warned about the risks. Also never let young kids play tackle football.

I'm not saying overnight, but when there is an epidemic of football players going insane and killing themselves and becoming more public about it, the Players Union is going to demand more and more aggressive "lifetime medical care" packages and things, the talent will dry up from fewer kids being "bred" to be football players, the product will suffer, and so on.

The tl;dr (this is from the email i got)-

A neuropsychiatric assessment of former football players has found that those who began playing the sport before the age of 12 were more likely to report symptoms of depression and apathy decades later than those who started playing after they turned 12.

It's scary and frustrating to think that this is potentially a factor in my own struggles with depression during my adult life. I played a year of Pop Warner and a year of high school football my freshman year. Had plenty of collisions where I got my bell rung pretty good.

 

[Teh Lurv]

I'm pretty sure Godell just needs to make it seem like the NFL is "doing stuff" to combat CTE

They know they are fucked if the players start asking for money

Of course the NFL is combating CTE! They're even funding a study the causes and effects of CTE...





on horse jockeys.

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/8/31/16233630/nfl-concussion-study-funding-cte-horse-jockeys

 

[Unknown Soldier]

football needs to change with all of the evidence we have about how harmful it is to the brain.

The only solution would be to take away all their pads and make it like rugby. The reason football players can hit each other so hard that they can damage each others' brains is because they have pads and can hit each other much harder than rugby players can.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

The only solution would be to take away all their pads and make it like rugby. The reason football players can hit each other so hard that they can damage each others' brains is because they have pads and can hit each other much harder than rugby players can.

Rugby players are probably at pretty big risk for CTE as well. It's not the huge highlight hits that are the issue in football. It's the constant accumulation of contact, the sub-concussive impacts, aka the things you don't even notice while you are watching a game. How many times have you seen football lineman blown up? Yet they are incredibly susceptible to CTE.

 

[Jobbs]

Stuff like this isn't surprising. It's modern day gladiators. Crowds form to watch the most powerful athletes smash into eachother over and over. I would never play it precisely because I don't want to destroy my body or my brain. Seems pretty straightforward.

If I had children they certainly wouldn't be playing.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

And bear in mind that he was like 23 when his career ended.

Holy shit

 

[IISANDERII]

This will be what ends the NFL as we know it, and honestly, it can't come soon enough

The NFL will find a way to survive. Parents will offer up their children as lifelong sacrifices to the sport by giving up rights to litigate in exchange for wealth. For most, it will be the only way to climb out of poverty.

Lobbyists have done worse.

 

[Cyanity]

We need more research and engineering solutions to prevent concussions on the game field. Full stop. I'm actually researching a solution + trying to get a team together to work on it in Uni. Hopefully we'll have something to show for it in a few years.

 

[timetokill]

The NFL will find a way to survive. Parents will offer up their children as lifelong sacrifices to the sport by giving up rights to litigate in exchange for wealth. For most, it will be the only way to climb out of poverty.

Lobbyists have done worse.

Eh, when they find a bunch of this in kids I wouldn't be surprised to see participation banned at least until adulthood.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Eh, when they find a bunch of this in kids I wouldn't be surprised to see participation banned at least until adulthood.

Is there any sort of precedent for something like that? A sport/activity being banned for a certain age group? And football is basically a religion in some states and towns. The pushback against even youth football being banned would be absolutely insane. Any politician that tried to push that would likely be in deep shit in terms of electability.

 

[FyreWulff]

Of course. The question is whether his rage was a part of him before the CTE. All signs point to yes.

Since you can get CTE at any level of football including little league, the question would be better asked as "whether his CTE was part of his rage".

Aaron is ultimately responsible for his crime, but it isn't like CTE waits until you get to the NFL to start showing up.

I don't know if CTE had anything to do with Hernandez being a fucking murderer, but I do know that he;s not the only NFL player who did crazy shit and also had CTE.

Just look at Junior Seau and Jovan Belcher.

The way I've seen it explained by doctors is CTE is roughly the equivalent of a 20 or 30s person having the brain of a 80-90 year old Alzheimer's patient. Human brains at those stages start operating more on impulse than logic, and can completely change what they're willing to do.

Like I said, he's responsible for what he did. But CTE could mean the difference between someone always walking away from a fight versus impulsively being violent. Hell, we've got a direct link between the amount of lead in the environment and overall crime - when we got lead out of car fuel, the amount of violence has dropped roughly proportionate to the amount of lead, because we went from "lead is fine!" to "lead is safe in small doses" to finding out there's literally no safe amount of lead.

We're about to have some hard science, I think, that no level of concussion is safe, either.