Support NeoGAF

[Diablohead]

Playing the demo right now and I turned off all sounds and music apart from ambient, there is none no crowd noises, no birds singing, no water or wind sounds, nothing.

is that a demo bug?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Playing the demo right now and I turned off all sounds and music apart from ambient, there is none no crowd noises, no birds singing, no water or wind sounds, nothing.

I've heard crowds talking in the full game replays.

 

[Spasm]

RennSport Wheel Stand

As much as I like the looks of the wheelstand pro, the RennSport does what I need (MS Wheel, DFGT compatibility) at a much better price for the U.S. The wheelstand pro is hot looking, but it's approaching full seat pricing. Thanks for the input guys.

 

[alba]

That makes photomode useless. Stupid Microsoft stubborn not allow usb drive export I'm sure... oh well :/

 

[commedieu]

I don't really see the compression being a killer for the images.. I had to do a double take to see it. I mean how many of you are sending your images to getty or something? Most are just going to share on forums.. What other purposes are the screens used for outside of "check this out" to a friend/community? Printing? They aren't high resolution... Whats wrong with just scaling them down a bit?

Game looks great. Not seeing the anger of the compression.

 

[pr0cs]

So why didn't just use the same compression for your screenshots? or atleast let us know/give us a comparison on what photomode is able to accomplish and what we'll be limited to due to compression?

It's pretty obvious what the comparison is going to look like and what it 'could' look like. That is probably why people are so upset with it. The game is capable of producing some really great shots but because they're worried about beating the piss out of the servers gamers are stuck with some really low quality shots.
It's a shame we can't at least export them to USB, to my knowledge there is no precedence here for saving to an external storage device and I don't think Forza/T10 has the pull at Microsoft to open this up.

Quite frankly Microsoft's reluctance to use any external device as read only is stupid IMO but WTF do I know. It maybe made sense back when the PS3/Wii weren't released but at this point it just hurts Microsoft's value proposition IMO.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

As much as I like the looks of the wheelstand pro, the RennSport does what I need (MS Wheel, DFGT compatibility) at a much better price for the U.S. The wheelstand pro is hot looking, but it's approaching full seat pricing. Thanks for the input guys.

Don't forget to order the wheel adapter along with it if you're going with the RennSport.

 

[chespace]

USB thumbdrive was not an option for reasons out of our control. If we could do it, we'd be on it in a heartbeat.

 

[amar212]

I so love what T10 did with the MS FF wheel support in the final build.

Great, grat job there, so much better than on demo.

F355 Challenge on the Catalunya is a blast.

I love this game

 

[rocksteady1983]

So basically, if i understand right....The only time we get to see the beautiful hi-res models is on the menus. Everything else is either compressed down or switched with LOD models. What a cluster fuck of fail. Anticipation for game went down ten fold. I'll still get it but fuck if i aint saddened by this news.

 

[amar212]

Che, please check your PM inbox, TIA.

 

[Big Takeover]

Dudes,

Writing through USB is not a feature of the 360. It's always been like that. It will always be like that.

 

[Keikoku]

USB thumbdrive was not an option for reasons out of our control. If we could do it, we'd be on it in a heartbeat.

PGR4 has been out for 2 years now and has a much better photomode than FM3. A lot of random multiplat/exclusives games too. I'm really disappointed as a photomode lover Hope you'll fix that soon or later. Still buying the LE day 1

 

[Ultimo hombre]

USB thumbdrive was not an option for reasons out of our control. If we could do it, we'd be on it in a heartbeat.

Eat the cost and do the right thing guys. You have a great addition in photomode that is going to be useless due to projected bandwidth and storage bills. Atlesat let the VIP get better quality. Something......

 

[Spasm]

that sounds like a horrible excuse to me to be honest.. and is a feature I am not even gonna use.

100k per picture, or 500k per picture. Doesn't seem like a lot to each individual user, but think of the millions, possibly tens of millions of pictures taken by the Halo community. If you have 1 million pictures, that's ~12GB vs ~60GB of space, not even considering the bandwidth needed to view them all.

It's a valid concern, but one that I wish T10 had handled with a little more foresight. If there was a way to get full quality photos offline, I wouldn't care. But since FM.net seems to be the only way to access your photos on a PC, the feature is pretty useless to anyone who would truly appreciate it.

There HAS to be some level of middleground, right T10?

 

[Diablohead]

I've heard crowds talking in the full game replays.

Watching the replay now and nothing, maybe the cheers an stuff are under a different sound option. Though no matter what you turn off you hear the car squeaky brakes and cheers at the very beginning before the count down, then nothing.

Also I can burnout my car as much as possible on maximum sim settings but my tyres after cooling down only drop to what feels like medium yellow, and my car is still extremely grippy to race with. Either a demo tyre wear limit or we can drive on bald tyres with the same grip of a tank.

 

[Spasm]

Don't forget to order the wheel adapter along with it if you're going with the RennSport.

Yeah, I checked that out. Still, $150 for a stand is easier to swallow than $200.

 

[chespace]

We're looking into it but we need the game to launch first for some real world data.

 

[Hawk SE]

I don't know about you guys, but I play Forza Motorsport to RACE

If I want to stare at hi-res photos of cars, there's real photos on the internet.
- Sure there's a pleasing portion to see your custom car, but still.

FM is all about the racing for me. Screaming around the tracks.

 

[Stop It]

I'm on the road right now and haven't had a chance to hop onto forums until now. Photomode compression is the way it is purely due to conservative estimates for bandwidth and peak user numbers around the launch window. With more filesharing and big WMV video exports than we've ever done before, we just want to make sure our servers don't fall over in November, etc. That said, I'm talking to the team about the possibility of changing compression specs later on when we've seen some numbers and have a good idea of our server situation. Totally understand the sentiments re: photomode as it's a feature that's near and dear to my heart, but it's really just a numbers game at this point.

That's understandable, I'd much rather a slightly dodgy picture on the FM site rather than nothing at all, but I think the filesize is just on the wrong side of unacceptable for photo mode.

As other people have stated, PGR4 uses 150kB pictures and seems to be ok, so while I accept your reasoning, I hope for a speedy increase in file size so we can show off our cars how they are meant to be shown off.

I don't know about you guys, but I play Forza Motorsport to RACE

If I want to stare at hi-res photos of cars, there's real photos on the internet.
- Sure there's a pleasing portion to see your custom car, but still.

FM is all about the racing for me. Screaming around the tracks.

This too, but it'll be nice to show off my best cars/racing fun in a way that truly conveys what i am trying to achieve.

After all, the old adage "pics or it didn't happen" still rings true.

 

[p3tran]

the 100kb jpg doesnt fly che. make dan understand.

beat up some corporate mofos if you guys have to.

I'm sure it will turn out just fine. can't wait to get the %^&*&^% game!

 

[Hawk SE]

You're right, I'm just trying to point out, the game is about racing.

It does appeal to the Designers, Photographers, etc out there and if that's what you're here for, it's quite disappointing...

I can see both sides of the coin, but for most of us complaining - can't lose sight of what this is all about

 

[Flo_Evans]

AHHH!! I am having flashbacks to my wedding photographer... crazy bitch sent over the photos at .jpeg quality 20. I was so pissed. :lol

 

[phil_t]

It's nice to know that it is a Server bandwidth issue.. I'm guessing bandwidth and storage space are two factors to be balanced,

But why does it always come down to such simple and stupid implementations?

Being an Engineer, I wouldn't accept the permanently cater for the worst case and set a fixed lowest common demoninator, I'd make it dynamic.. either rate limit, or set a minimum upload interval at busy times, or any other solution..

The USB thing, I can't believe allowing one way only storage of common file formats (jpg/avi) is going to compromise any security, it only has to write files to the USB, it's not reading/using files from it, so surely the security risks are quite limited and can be defensively protected..

 

[Spasm]

If I want to stare at hi-res photos of cars, there's real photos on the internet.

orly?

But why does it always come down to such simple and stupid implementations?

Being an Engineer, I wouldn't accept the permanently cater for the worst case and set a fixed lowest common demoninator, I'd make it dynamic.. either rate limit, or set a minimum upload interval at busy times, or any other solution..

This. I've always suspected that Bungie.net only stores the thumbnails, and re-renders the higher res version as it is requested.

 

[Diablohead]

AHHH!! I am having flashbacks to my wedding photographer... crazy bitch sent over the photos at .jpeg quality 20. I was so pissed. :lol

Were you able to get your images in higher quality or out of luck? That sucks for such a huge event and I bet you paid a fair bit for a photographer too, my cousin did but thankfully hers were not jpg 20 :lol

Also thank you che for an answer, it's a real disappointment to see such compression going on so if that can be raised after the first month rush or so, please by all means do so for us

But a moderator on FM.net said that no retail F3 photos were out yet and that the full game would not disappoint us, was he just talking trash? I quoted him 2-3 pages back.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Can you save photos to the memory card? There has to be some chinese adpater to let you use a MS memory card on your PC.

Were you able to get your images in higher quality or out of luck? That sucks for such a huge event and I bet you paid a fair bit for a photographer too, my cousin did but thankfully hers were not jpg 20 :lol

After allot of arguing yeah. She kept insisting they where fine and open to 30MB in photoshop. Shouldn't really have to explain the working document size to jpeg compression size to a photographer... :lol

Worst part was though she just batch auto-leveled them, I tried to get the originals and do the color correction myself, but she said that would compromise her "artistic integrity" =\

In hindsight I should of paid more for someone that actually knew wtf they where doing...

 

[p3tran]

I...
The USB thing, I can't believe allowing one way only storage of common file formats (jpg/avi) is going to compromise any security, it only has to write files to the USB, it's not reading/using files from it, so surely the security risks are quite limited and can be defensively protected..

this has nothing at all to do with t10. everybody must understand that.

it is a fact that microsoft considers such things as "security issues".
when/if ever microsoft feels that they have 'mastered' the difficult subject of saving pics to usb media without compromising the mighty security core of their 360, they will offer it.

 

[bloodforge]

Just more Turn10 Lies™, I don't see how anyone is surprised by the photo compression.

I'm excited to play the game for the racing, but everything else is a disappointment.

 

[chespace]

Nobody is talking trash and everyone has the best intentions. Like I said, none of this is carved in stone so please keep that in mind.

 

[Spasm]

Just more Turn10 Lies™, I don't see how anyone is surprised by the photo compression.

I'm excited to play the game for the racing, but everything else is a disappointment.

Oh come on, cut 'em a little slack. They're building a back end and infrastructure that can't be cheap to run and maintain. All at no additional cost to you™. Even Bungie is 'charging' for their more resource-intensive extras. Slightly disappointing? Sure. Heartbreaking? No.

 

[Jube3]

Just gonna post this again in case people missed it since it happened late last night.

I was streaming last night and blackjack joined a multiplayer room and were drifting around fujimi, nurb etc while I spectated.

Its archived here.
http://www.justin.tv/jube3/archive

To see them check out the 10-9-2009 archive.
Blackjack are the drifting team featured in the fujimi kaido reveal trailer. Dudes are really skilled.

 

[Milpool]

Oh god, if I don't get Forza 3 delivered at launch because of some shitty postal strike...

 

[Big Takeover]

Just gonna post this again in case people missed it since it happened late last night.



To see them check out the 10-9-2009 archive.
Blackjack are the drifting team featured in the fujimi kaido reveal trailer. Dudes are really skilled.

I was lurking while it was going on. I only saw a few minutes of it, but wow, very impressive seeing it being done in realtime. I have very little interest in drifting, and even I thought it was super cool.

 

[Jube3]

I was lurking while it was going on. I only saw a few minutes of it, but wow, very impressive seeing it being done in realtime. I have very little interest in drifting, and even I thought it was super cool.

Yea they have those maneuvers down pat, in one of the clip evolution i think it was does a 360 with the land rover and keeps speed. I dunno how the heck he did that lol.

If you skip around in the archives until you see the bmw/rover on nurburing they start to roll cars and some of them are hilarious. Especially the first rover roll. When I went cockpit on one of them while drifting it was really sick seeing the track that way. Like going down fujimi with your car looking at a railing instead of downhill was really cool.

 

[Ultimo hombre]

Just gonna post this again in case people missed it since it happened late last night.



To see them check out the 10-9-2009 archive.
Blackjack are the drifting team featured in the fujimi kaido reveal trailer. Dudes are really skilled.

Says no video available for the 9th.

 

[Dina]

Yea they have those maneuvers down pat, in one of the clip evolution i think it was does a 360 with the land rover and keeps speed. I dunno how the heck he did that lol.

If you skip around in the archives until you see the bmw/rover on nurburing they start to roll cars and some of them are hilarious. Especially the first rover roll. When I went cockpit on one of them while drifting it was really sick seeing the track that way. Like going down fujimi with your car looking at a railing instead of downhill was really cool.

I don't see the archives at all. All I saw was the Blackjack Fujimi drift video and you painting Alan Wake and some other video.

 

[Jube3]

I don't see the archives at all. All I saw was the Blackjack Fujimi drift video and you painting Alan Wake and some other video.

Those videos are the archive, they store 5 minutes in each clip. Click the Arrow to the right of the video player to keep advancing. Ill put up a youtube video but it wont be Blimblim quality.

 

[rocksteady1983]

Forza 2 never even had videos to compromise bandwidth and the compression was never fixed with those so I guarantee nothing will be done to improve Forza 3. Just gonna have to swallow that big ass horse pill and deal with it.

I think what pisses me off the most is everyones hopes for even at the least out of all the bullshit LOD crap and replay models, that the photomode shots were at least the one thing going to look as good as the pics posted but that too got the axe. Its like someone showing off a sweet blu-ray movie and making everyone believe thats what you are getting but instead we only get a VHS tape.

 

[Psychotext]

Good god rocksteady. I mean I'm quite gutted about aspects of the photomode but you'd think Turn 10 just sent you a (badly compressed) video of them torturing your pet kitten.

Perhaps it's because I'm playing the game, and it's awesome... but I really don't see it to be anywhere near the issue you're making it out to be.

That said, FUCK YOU MICROSOFT for not allowing export to other media. I know you're security paranoid, but it'd have to be a very special type of hacker that could find a way to exploit a function which writes image files to an external device.

 

[p3tran]

Forza 2 never even had videos to compromise bandwidth and the compression was never fixed with those so I guarantee nothing will be done to improve Forza 3. Just gonna have to swallow that big ass horse pill and deal with it.

really? tell me more about this guarantee of yours..

 

[phil_t]

this has nothing at all to do with t10. everybody must understand that.

it is a fact that microsoft considers such things as "security issues".
when/if ever microsoft feels that they have 'mastered' the difficult subject of saving pics to usb media without compromising the mighty security core of their 360, they will offer it.

Yeah, I fully understand that MS set the USB policy, that point was aimed at them..

I do understand the limitations etc that T10 face, I just don't feel that at the moment they are fully utilising what they currently have available.

And, I fully respect Che's excellent contribution from T10, I know that he is wielding a double edged sword, getting info to us, but suffering when inevitably some features turn out to be debug or not allowed for the final game..

Peace..

 

[kaskade]

The IGN review got me really excited for the game, I hate not having a job.

 

[rocksteady1983]

really? tell me more about this guarantee of yours..

I guarantee you will take certain posters words when they are just ranting and make a big deal about them.

 

[Ze_Pershing]

As much as I like the looks of the wheelstand pro, the RennSport does what I need (MS Wheel, DFGT compatibility) at a much better price for the U.S. The wheelstand pro is hot looking, but it's approaching full seat pricing. Thanks for the input guys.

Could you link me to this rennsport product? I'm intrigued.

 

[Spasm]

Could you link me to this rennsport product? I'm intrigued.

Comes with everything you see here... Except the wheel. And the pedals. And the couch. Hot girl sold separately.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17963422&postcount=11684

 

[rocksteady1983]

Good god rocksteady. I mean I'm quite gutted about aspects of the photomode but you'd think Turn 10 just sent you a (badly compressed) video of them torturing your pet kitten.

Perhaps it's because I'm playing the game, and it's awesome... but I really don't see it to be anywhere near the issue you're making it out to be.

That said, FUCK YOU MICROSOFT for not allowing export to other media. I know you're security paranoid, but it'd have to be a very special type of hacker that could find a way to exploit a function which writes image files to an external device.

What can I say, photomode is my favorite feature in the game, and I had high hopes.

 

[Yoritomo]

I can't wait to remake my drifting bus.

 

[Ze_Pershing]

Comes with everything you see here... Except the wheel. And the pedals. And the couch. Hot girl sold separately.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17963422&postcount=11684

My freaking luck, site blocked at work... I will check it out at home. Thanks.

 

[rocksteady1983]

Yep, just sucks that we have to make the photos 1/2 their original size.