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[JackFrost2012]

Near the end of the now-locked legendary Fable thread, I said:

Christian's point (which I happen to agree with) is that there's something fundamentally creepy about shooting virtual Charlie while listening to the Rolling Stones. Developers brag about going out of their way to make their games as "true to life" and unpleasant as possible. What's next ... NPC "friendlies" raping villagers while you watch on, helpless to intervene? Virtual and imaginary battlefields are one thing, but the oversimplification and exploitation of real, recent conflicts for entertainment value isn't something I approve of.

Well, guess what? In addition to the usual exploitation of violence and killing, ShellShock: 'Nam 67 lets you hang out at a base camp and hire prostitutes from "the all famous Mama San."

Someone who's played the game says you get to collect photos of the prostitutes you've banged.

War game nuts: am I allowed to be offended, yet? Cause I'm pretty damn offended.

EDIT: If someone could change the topic, I'd be much obliged. Accidentally hit "post" halfway through composing.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This game sounded so promising when it was originally announced. Then the more info that came out on it, the more it just turned into a completely joke.

 

[fennec fox]

Well, what? Guerrilla's objective is to portray Vietnam just as you saw it in the movies, or thought you did anyway -- a sleazy bloodbath that turned everyone there into raving lunatics. I can see the allure of a game like that.

 

[Bog]

am I allowed to be offended, yet? Cause I'm pretty damn offended.

Are you kidding?

 

[JackFrost2012]

Well, what? Guerrilla's objective is to portray Vietnam just as you saw it in the movies, or thought you did anyway -- a sleazy bloodbath that turned everyone there into raving lunatics. I can see the allure of a game like that.

Well, there's a bit of a difference between collecting Pokemon and collecting underage Vietnamese prostitutes driven to the sex trade in order to survive.

Having prostitutes in your game is one thing. Having prostitutes in your game, advertising them as a fun way for your virtual soldier to get some "R&R," and having a built-in collecting mechanic to reward players for sleeping with as many girls as possible is quite another.

If they wanted to "show the horrors of war" then they shouldn't be treating battlefield prostitution like a night at the Champagne Room.

 

[Brannon]

Real answer; yeah, it's getting a little out there in terms of realism. You may never see this type of thing in a WWII game. Maybe because that conflict was so respected in comparison to the Vietnam War, and not as many people or nationalities would get offended at making light of the situation.

Joke answer; .... actually what I was thinking about for this answer may have been a bit too tasteless even for me considering the current events of the day.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Well, what? Guerrilla's objective is to portray Vietnam just as you saw it in the movies, or thought you did anyway -- a sleazy bloodbath that turned everyone there into raving lunatics. I can see the allure of a game like that.

That's actually what had me most interested in the game. From what i've read though, it doesn't even do that all that well.

The prositution thing is stupid because from what the impressions i've seen, there's no benefit for sleeping with them. It just seems like they stuck that in there for no other reason than for shock value. In GTA atleast you got energy for doing it.

 

[Sho Nuff]

Yo, that is fucked up! And that's all I've got to say about that.

 

[D2M15]

Hey, the prostitutes are the least offensive thing about Shellshock. It's an utterly wretched game that fails on every level, including the one Fennec (and Guerilla) talked up.

edit: I don't think you can collect photos of them per se, though - you can buy (clean) pinup-style photos from the camp black marketeer, but they all seemed to be of the nubile nurses.

It just seems like they stuck that in there for no other reason than for shock value.

There's a shocking twist involved in the later game too, but it doesn't really work.

 

[JackFrost2012]

There's a shocking twist involved in the later game too, but it doesn't really work.

What, you're actually a war-torn vet back in the States, and the entire game is just your brain-addled nightmares? I've seen 'Nam movies too, you know. Feel free to spoiler-tag the twist or PM me.

 

[Deg]

played this. Came away unimpressed. There are much better games out there. Graphics were rubbish. Controls were fine for a console game i guess. Gameplay was so so during the time i played. Give this game a pass guys theres so much better out there this year.

 

[EmSeta]

There's a shocking twist involved in the later game too, but it doesn't really work.

AIDS?

 

[D2M15]

What, you're actually a war-torn vet back in the States, and the entire game is just your brain-addled nightmares?

Oh God no, that would actually imply the developers had a fucking clue. It's to do with the prostitutes and shock effect:

Spoiler

Towards the end of the game you discover Mama-san and her girls are VC informers, culminating in a brothel gunfight that forces you to kill all the girls and sit through an extended, dangerously misogynist cutscene of Mama-san being tortured and executed. Like every other attempt at bleak maturity in the game, though, it's way off the mark - not least because there was never any humanisation (or de-humanisation) of you or the girls in the first place.

AIDS?

 

[JackFrost2012]

Wow, that sounds pretty awful. SURPRISE! (not a surprise)

 

[JackFrost2012]

AIDS?

That would be a cool twist as it necessitates time travel.

 

[Gahiggidy]

This thread is worthless without pictures.

 

[Wario64]

played this. Came away unimpressed. There are much better games out there. Graphics were rubbish. Controls were fine for a console game i guess. Gameplay was so so during the time i played. Give this game a pass guys theres so much better out there this year.

I saw the gameplay in action and I agree, it doesn't seem great at all. Best to pass this game up

 

[God's Hand]

People who get offended are weak.

 

[Lil' Dice]

It's no different that the whores in GTA IMO. Except that the ones in GTA are American, and the ones in Shellshock are Asian....and we all know how much some people in here cherish the Asian culture and it's people.

 

[Jacobi]

Pics ?

 

[D2M15]

It's no different that the whores in GTA IMO. Except that the ones in GTA are American, and the ones in Shellshock are Asian....and we all know how much some people in here cherish the Asian culture and it's people.

You can't make this stuff up!

 

[Brannon]

I'm going to rent this game anyway, and if I don't hear even ONE instance of "Black Syphilis", I'm going to be very disappointed. You can't NOT include comedy gold like that.

 

[8bit]

Does GTA3 have a whore score card?

 

[Bluemercury]

There goes the much talked KILLZONE = "HALO killer" claim......

 

[Forsete]

There goes the much talked KILLZONE = "HALO killer" claim......

Different teams IIRC.. So sorry.

OMG.. Oni... BUNGIE.. HALO. lllollolo

 

[D2M15]

What is the difference then?

I'd say 'play the game and see', but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. So I guess the difference is one's sneeringly adolescent horseshit, and the other's much the same, only claiming to be an unflinchingly accurate portrayal of the horrors of the Vietnam war.

Anyway, I was talking about the second sentence of his post, which is almost as mind-boggling as Shellshock.

 

[john2kx]

I don't think any game will ever accurately depict the horror and atrocities that some soldiers see/go through during war... especially in Vietnam. (this is a good thing)

game developers just weren't there, and no amount of research on their part can put them there.

 

[Funky Papa]

It's no different that the whores in GTA IMO. Except that the ones in GTA are American, and the ones in Shellshock are Asian....and we all know how much some people in here cherish the Asian culture and it's people.

I don't think so. GTA is parodic and humorous while Nam tries a more "serious" aproach than can disgust some people.

I must say that the game is quite forgetable.

 

[Badabing]

I'm more offended that the game is so bad...

 

[Lil' Dice]

I'd say 'play the game and see', but I wouldn't wish that on anyone. So I guess the difference is one's sneeringly adolescent horseshit, and the other's much the same, only claiming to be an unflinchingly accurate portrayal of the horrors of the Vietnam war.

Anyway, I was talking about the second sentence of his post, which is almost as mind-boggling as Shellshock.

Stick around GA for a while, in time you'll see what the second part of my posts is indicating...

 

[JackFrost2012]

Stick around GA for a while, in time you'll see what the second part of my posts is indicating...

That GA posters often make unsubstantiated, off-base generalizations in the form of ad hominem attacks? Cause that's what it indicated to me!

 

[Mooreberg]

It sounds like they added all of this "controversy" to the game to cover up the fact that it was really just a mediocre war game being released amongst a flood of genuinely good titles (2015's 'Nam game has gotten good feedback from what I've read).

The unfortunate part is that this doesn't bode well for Killzone at all. If they can't even make a game that meets or exceeds to the quality of the milked-dry war games genre, than they're going to get completley ruined by Halo 2.

 

[tenchir]

It sounds like they added all of this "controversy" to the game to cover up the fact that it was really just a mediocre war game being released amongst a flood of genuinely good titles (2015's 'Nam game has gotten good feedback from what I've read).

The unfortunate part is that this doesn't bode well for Killzone at all. If they can't even make a game that meets or exceeds to the quality of the milked-dry war games genre, than they're going to get completley ruined by Halo 2.

Read what the earlier posters said, different team!!

 

[RiZ III]

This is lame. Anyone claiming to be offended is retarded. Why the hell can all other sorts of media be so explicit yet games be judged so harshly? The world just ain't ready I guess.

"What are standards and practices?"
Standards and practices are a vital link in keeping good and new ideas away from you the viewer. By following the rules, your gauraunteed to make a mediocre product that no one can relate to." -ATHF

 

[JackFrost2012]

This is lame. Anyone claiming to be offended is retarded. Why the hell can all other sorts of media be so explicit yet games be judged so harshly? The world just ain't ready I guess.

It's not the content, it's the context.

EDIT: It's precisely BECAUSE of these sorts of ham-fisted, middle-school level poor attempts at being "edgy" in lieu of actual, mature content that games are still the redheaded stepchild of the entertainment industry. Games are judged harshly because, by and large, they have yet to earn the respect afforded to other mediums. Every time a Postal 2 or ShellShock comes out, everyone trying to make an actually mature game for adults gets held back with the rest of the class.

 

[shuri]

Are you guys getting offended by sex scenes in a videogame based on one of the most vicious (as in, on a violence level) war that america has known?

ITS OK TO BLOW UP WHOLE VILLAGES, BUT SIMULATED 3D SEX = NONONONOONONONO

 

[JackFrost2012]

ITS OK TO BLOW UP WHOLE VILLAGES, BUT SIMULATED 3D SEX = NONONONOONONONO

I'm offended by the military portions of the game, too, for what it's worth.

 

[D2M15]

Stick around GA for a while, in time you'll see what the second part of my posts is indicating...

I've stuck around for three years so far and I still think you're not quite right in the head.

Are you guys getting offended by sex scenes in a videogame based on one of the most vicious (as in, on a violence level) war that america has known?

No, we're getting offended by how cringingly badly judged and thoughtlessly implemented the sex scenes are in a videogame that fundamentally misinterprets everything about the delivery of mature content.

 

[drohne]

relative to the banalized, sanitized, jingoistic version of war in medal of honor or counterstrike, "me so horny" and agent orange and the rolling stones sound almost refreshing. i'm sure it's all handled stupidly. it's a videogame, after all, and guerilla strike me as talentless. but it doesn't seem unusually offensive, no.

edit: i don't generally find war or terrorism to be appealing fantasy material either.

 

[Lil' Dice]

Oh god, get off you fucking high horse people, it's a goddamned video game.
Some of you need to have your common sense checked at the door.
Since when has the portrayal of any given subject matter in a video game been such an offensive matter?
What about the portrayal of blacks in San Andreas then, where's the public outcry in that case?
And don't give me that "GTA is humorous while Shellshock is realistic" shit, because games are a subjective medium and people draw their conclusions accordingly.
If you're going to fight the good fight, at least try not to be selective.

 

[JackFrost2012]

What about the portrayal of blacks in San Andreas then, where's the public outcry in that case?

Sounds like someone's forgotten the "Kill the Haitians" brouhaha from Vice City!

And don't give me that "GTA is humorous while Shellshock is realistic" shit, because games are a subjective medium and people draw their conclusions accordingly.

Lots of comedians use racial humor as a part of their routines, and most of GAF has no problem finding these guys funny. Intent is important. If you say you're trying to be funny and you end up being funny, I'll know in what context your racial comments were made. If you say that you're going to show the realistic horrors of war and you have prostitutes in your game, fine. They were there. But if you glamorize and encourage sleeping with them, then I'm going to call "bullshit" on your so-called intent. It's the difference between explanation and exploitation.

In any case, this has nothing to do with Vice City, San Andreas, other Vietnam games or movies. My point was: a violent war game which rewards the player for sleeping with prostitutes is pretty fucking fucked up. And I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

 

[Lil' Dice]

I wonder if you can bash their head in with a bat and get your $$ back too?

 

[JackFrost2012]

I wonder if you can bash their head in with a bat and get your $$ back too?

You could bash anyone's head in with a bat to get money in GTA - it wasn't limited to prostitutes. You weren't "getting your money back" - paying a prostitute for services and hitting a person to get money are two different gameplay elements. Just because you can do them in sequence doesn't mean you've uncovered a hidden misogynist narrative.

By the way, did you see read the part where I said that this isn't about GTA? Cause ... it's not.

 

[DCharlie]

maybe this plot twist/story element would have worked better in a film with real actors with which you can emphasise a bit more, or with excellent in game execution with great depth of character development of the women that you can inter-relate with - but if it's badly executed, is shittily written, then it'll just come off as amateurish garbage which could be interpreted as a crude attempt to draw publicity to an average game.

 

[MC Safety]

It's clear game developers are attempting to be more "mature" in their subject matter. But it's also clear most of their efforts are clumsy and amateurish.

I remember when American comics were struggling to become more adult oriented. There were some really great comics, but most of the stuff put out was crap. When they asked comic writer and artist John Byrne about his feelings on the trend toward mature-themed books, he commented most of the titles were "badly drawn naked ladies saying 'sh*t.'"

Video games, as a medium, might be going through its badly drawn naked ladies saying sh*t phase.

 

[Badabing]

Is it the fact that the people violated in the game are Vietnamese that makes you angry, or that they're prostitutes? Because GTA did actually encourage people to sleep with hookers (Hell, you get health-points out of it), and it was pretty glamorized too, especially since you had to drive to secluded area to make your car start a-rockin'.

It's a one way street dammit. You can't get offended by one game, and then not get offended by the other, because then you're opinion doesn't even make sense.

 

[JackFrost2012]

Is it the fact that the people violated in the game are Vietnamese that makes you angry, or that they're prostitutes? Because GTA did actually encourage people to sleep with hookers (Hell, you get health-points out of it), and it was pretty glamorized too, especially since you had to drive to secluded area to make your car start a-rockin'.

It's that they're war prostitutes presented realistically. Race has nothing to do with it; it's the scenario in which the prostitution is being presented. Liberty City and Vice City are not real places. Vietnam is.

 

[Lil' Dice]

It's that they're war prostitutes presented realistically. Race has nothing to do with it; it's the scenario in which the prostitution is being presented. Liberty City and Vice City are not real places. Vietnam is.

But prostitution was a very 'real' thing during the Vietnam conflict, many of them were Vietcong operatives/spies who often time slept with soldiers and established relationships only to extract information. I'm not at all offended by their inclusion in the game, their individual stories may be presented in a clumsy manner, but h'm not expecting Oscar caliber writing or Discovery Channel caliber history lessons in a video game,