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[DForce]

Well to be fair you're admitting that 2k was in the European top 20.
Madden and especially College Football wouldn't be factors outside the US but EAFC is a huge game in Europe. It is a very popular game even in the US now.

You wanted to pretend it was huge outside of the US and when it's not.

You're using flawed logic to support your argument.

Now you realize you can't base your argument on the top 20 games list. More people bought games like God of War and Spider-Man on the PlayStation platform than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football.

A 10-20 hour game is going to be played less than most single-player games. 500k regular Madden players can accumulate more hours than 2 million God of War players because 1 game is designed for competitive play against other players while the other one is not.

We've heard this argument for years and that's why it's stupid.

 

[NonPhixion]

I am not sure I follow that rayray m14’s logic. Sony can’t survive being the biggest place a lot of those 3rd games are played, while capturing 30% of micro transactions and game sales?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

Whose alt was awaken from its slumber?

Makes you wonder, for sure.

 

[m14]

You wanted to pretend it was huge outside of the US and when it's not.

You're using flawed logic to support your argument.

Now you realize you can't base your argument on the top 20 games list. More people bought games like God of War and Spider-Man on the PlayStation platform than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football.

A 10-20 hour game is going to be played less than most single-player games. 500k regular Madden players can accumulate more hours than 2 million God of War players because 1 game is designed for competitive play against other players while the other one is not.

We've heard this argument for years and that's why it's stupid.

2K is a very popular game outside the US.

And guess which type of game makes more money for the companies? Guess which games casual gamers purchase a console to play?

Also "More people bought games like God of War and Spider-Man on the PlayStation platform than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football." - You don't like the top 20 games list because it lists competitive games alongside single player titles and yet you have no problem comparing the sales of yearly franchises like Madden, EAFC and NBA 2k (which all make fortunes in microtransactions) with sporadic releases like God of War and Spider-Man. Even if someone accepts the idea that "more people" bought those games, they are much less lucrative than the sports games.

 

[DForce]

2K is a very popular game outside the US.

And guess which type of game makes more money for the companies? Guess which games casual gamers purchase a console to play?

Also "More people bought games like God of War and Spider-Man on the PlayStation platform than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football." - You don't like the top 20 games list because it lists competitive games alongside single player titles and yet you have no problem comparing the sales of yearly franchises like Madden, EAFC and NBA 2k (which all make fortunes in microtransactions) with sporadic releases like God of War and Spider-Man. Even if someone accepts the idea that "more people" bought those games, they are much less lucrative than the sports games.

All that spinning. LOL

Japan
[PS5] NBA 2K25 <SPT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2024.09.06} (¥8.000) - 2.710 / NEW <60-80%>

Spain
[PS5] NBA 2K25 - 1.800 / New

European GSD September 2024 Top 10 (Digital + Physical)​

4 - Astro Bot
6 - NBA 2K


Astro Bot is not selling 2 million copies in Europe during the first month, so we can see how it's not huge in Europe.

And guess which type of game makes more money for the companies? Guess which games casual gamers purchase a console to play?

You're talking which games matter more to Sony and which games gamers care about more. Don't try to spin this. lol

 

[m14]

All that spinning. LOL

Japan
[PS5] NBA 2K25 <SPT> (Take-Two Interactive Japan) {2024.09.06} (¥8.000) - 2.710 / NEW <60-80%>

Spain
[PS5] NBA 2K25 - 1.800 / New

European GSD September 2024 Top 10 (Digital + Physical)​

4 - Astro Bot
6 - NBA 2K


Astro Bot is not selling 2 million copies in Europe during the first month, so we can see how it's not huge in Europe.




You're talking which games matter more to Sony and which games gamers care about more. Don't try to spin this. lol

I'm not sure what we're supposed to learn from Astro Bot outselling 2K25 over a couple of weeks in a few European countries. Astro Bot will have a strong start but 2k25 will sell strongly for months and months.

 

[Vroadstar]

It's 272K PS (Xbox is One and Series combined).

 

[DForce]

I'm not sure what we're supposed to learn from Astro Bot outselling 2K25 over a couple of weeks in a few European countries. Astro Bot will have a strong start but 2k25 will sell strongly for months and months.

You're not sure what we're supposed to learn from Astro Bot over a couple of weeks?

But you're showing me a bundle as "proof" that it's popular in Europe. LOL.

Astro Bot will have a strong start but 2k25 will sell strongly for months and months.

You didn't even bother looking at the charts. You just glanced at it and then came up with some lame excuse. lol

NBA 2K debut was 12th on the UK charts while Astro Bot was 1st.

It fell out of the top 10 in 2 weeks in Spain. It fell out of the top 40 UK charts in 3 weeks.

How is this game going to sell strongly for months and months in Europe? LMFAO

SPAIN

WEEK 36
01 / NE [PS5] Astro Bot - 10.000 / New
02 / NE [PS5] NBA 2K25 - 1.800 / New

WEEK 37
02 / 01 [PS5] Astro Bot - 3.700 / 13.700
08 / 02 [PS5] NBA 2K25 - 750 / 2.550

WEEK 38
01 / 02 [PS5] Astro Bot - 2.100 / 15.800

WEEK 39
06 / 01 [PS5] Astro Bot - 2.000 / 18.000

WEEK 40
05 / 06 [PS5] Astro Bot - 1.200 / 19.200

UK

WEEK 36
1 - Astro Bot
12 - NBA 2K25

WEEK 37
4 - Astro Bot
17 - NBA 2K25

WEEK 38
1 - Astro Bot
33 - NBA 2K25

WEEK 39
3. Astro Bot

WEEK 41
12 - Astro Bot
WEEK 42
12 - Astro Bot

WEEK 43
13 - Astro Bot

WEEK 44
15 - Astro Bot

It was no better in Germany.

This is a fact that NBA 2K is not huge or even big in Europe.

The picture of the bundle doesn't prove it's popular in Europe.

 

[onQ123]

You're not sure what we're supposed to learn from Astro Bot over a couple of weeks?

But you're showing me a bundle as "proof" that it's popular in Europe. LOL.



You didn't even bother looking at the charts. You just glanced at it and then came up with some lame excuse. lol

NBA 2K debut was 12th on the UK charts while Astro Bot was 1st.

It fell out of the top 10 in 2 weeks in Spain. It fell out of the top 40 UK charts in 3 weeks.

How is this game going to sell strongly for months and months in Europe? LMFAO

SPAIN



UK


It was no better in Germany.

This is a fact that NBA 2K is not huge or even big in Europe.

The picture of the bundle doesn't prove it's popular in Europe.

At this point you're wasting knowledge on this guy , it seems he just wants to derail the thread.

 

[m14]

You're not sure what we're supposed to learn from Astro Bot over a couple of weeks?

But you're showing me a bundle as "proof" that it's popular in Europe. LOL.



You didn't even bother looking at the charts. You just glanced at it and then came up with some lame excuse. lol

NBA 2K debut was 12th on the UK charts while Astro Bot was 1st.

It fell out of the top 10 in 2 weeks in Spain. It fell out of the top 40 UK charts in 3 weeks.

How is this game going to sell strongly for months and months in Europe? LMFAO

SPAIN



UK


It was no better in Germany.

This is a fact that NBA 2K is not huge or even big in Europe.

The picture of the bundle doesn't prove it's popular in Europe.

The bundle proves that Sony cares about NBA 2K25 enough to literally package it with their console because they know that game helps sell their system.

No I'm not putting too much stock in a few hand picked weekly European charts as "proof" that 2K isn't popular there. Again, you're narrowly focused on sales alone when in reality 2k25 will be played for at least the next year, earning a fortune in microtransactions, long after any physical copies of Astro Bot have been traded into the local CeX.
You also tried to bury the stat that 2k25 was the sixth best selling game in Europe in September while still trying to claim that it isn't popular outside the US.

Setting 2K aside, EAFC is more important to Sony's console business in Europe than any of their first party titles. And that's more than backed up by your beloved sales charts.

 

[StereoVsn]

Holy shit. I was expecting like...half of that decrease.

MS buying a huge ass publisher for 70 billion, Sony losing the marketing deal and somehow gaining 30% in sales when the franchise lost sales both on Xbox and PC (people seem to not mention the PC decrease as well) is...something...


Hi-Fi-Rush was also the biggest Gamepass title once...and they closed the studio. Halo Infinite was also the biggest Halo release right? Or was it Forza Motorstorm?

These PR statements from Xbox mean nothing.

I think what we are seeing is existing Xbox and PC GamePass users getting COD for free or at best buying a month or two worth of subs. My bet is on this mostly being existing GamePass subs already.

This is a huge f-up on Xbox management and Phil. Like the ball wasn’t just dropped, they fucking shot it with a shotgun to make sure it doesn’t bounce, lol.

 

[DForce]

The bundle proves that Sony cares about NBA 2K25 enough to literally package it with their console because they know that game helps sell their system.

No I'm not putting too much stock in a few hand picked weekly European charts as "proof" that 2K isn't popular there. Again, you're narrowly focused on sales alone when in reality 2k25 will be played for at least the next year, earning a fortune in microtransactions, long after any physical copies of Astro Bot have been traded into the local CeX.
You also tried to bury the stat that 2k25 was the sixth best selling game in Europe in September while still trying to claim that it isn't popular outside the US.

Setting 2K aside, EAFC is more important to Sony's console business in Europe than any of their first party titles. And that's more than backed up by your beloved sales charts.

They also included Driveclub in PS4 bundles.

The fact remains it's not huge in Europe. Those are not just a "few hand picked weekly europe charts" I showed you the biggest regions in Europe and the sales are small.

Nothing you have shown me today proves it's huge in Europe despite making the claim.

You still can't tell me how it would sell for months despite the sales legs being poor. LOL

SO do me a favor, and explain to me how it's going to sell well goo for weeks in Europe even though the sales legs are poor.

 

[m14]

They also included Driveclub in PS4 bundles.

The fact remains it's not huge in Europe. Those are not just a "few hand picked weekly europe charts" I showed you the biggest regions in Europe and the sales are small.

Nothing you have shown me today proves it's huge in Europe despite making the claim.

You still can't tell me how it would sell for months despite the sales legs being poor. LOL

SO do me a favor, and explain to me how it's going to sell well goo for weeks in Europe even though the sales legs are poor.

You posted the evidence yourself- 2K was sixth overall in European sales in its first month. I stated it was a very popular game outside the US and that backs it up.As for the legs, we'll have to wait and see.

I can see why you don't want to reflect on how important a game EAFC is in Europe.

 

[DForce]

You posted the evidence yourself- 2K was sixth overall in European sales in its first month. I stated it was a very popular game outside the US and that backs it up.As for the legs, we'll have to wait and see.

Dude, you're done. lol

You don't want to ignore the weekly charts that clearly prove you wrong, but what to believe the the Europe monthly chart "proves" your point. LOL.

If the sales were low from the beginning then that means anything below Astro Bot sales are small.

You clearly never followed a video game sales chart before in your life.

I can see why you don't want to reflect on how important a game EAFC is in Europe.

Because I was talking about 3 games that didn't include EAFC.

The charts I posted prove 2 things.

1. The sales from Europe aren't big

2. NBA 2K has poor legs.

I'm no longer going to waste my time. You just got destroyed by multiple people in this thread and you're just in denial now. lol

 

[Killjoy-NL]

You posted the evidence yourself- 2K was sixth overall in European sales in its first month. I stated it was a very popular game outside the US and that backs it up.As for the legs, we'll have to wait and see.

I can see why you don't want to reflect on how important a game EAFC is in Europe.

Are you arguing against Sony 1st party sales?

2K22 sold 10M copies.

God of War Ragnarök sold 15M copies.

Both released the same year.

 

[yazenov]

I can't believe COD is now officially dead because GAF said so!

Who said it's dead? I should clarify that It's in a steep decline, as in people are tuning out and the interest in the franchise is declining. Check the sales trend below:

• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - 833.000 units
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - 529.000 units
• Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 - 450.000 units

Notice the trend here? Black Ops 6 sales are around a -50 % decline from MW2 and -15% from MW3. This decline in sales should be very alarming for MS.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Who said it's dead? I should clarify that It's in a steep decline, as in people are tuning out and the interest in the franchise is declining. Check the sales trend below:

• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - 833.000 units
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - 529.000 units
• Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 - 450.000 units

Notice the trend here? Black Ops 6 sales are around a -50 % decline from MW2 and 15% from MW3. This decline in sales should be very alarming for MS.

This probably why Ryan got that 10-year COD deal.

Ride it out as they get their own alternatives up and running (Gaas-strategy).

 

[wolffy66]

Did people actually think xbox users, most of which have gamepass, were going to buy cod for some reason? That makes no sense.

 

[clarky]

Who said it's dead? I should clarify that It's in a steep decline, as in people are tuning out and the interest in the franchise is declining. Check the sales trend below:

• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 - 833.000 units
• Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 - 529.000 units
• Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 - 450.000 units

Notice the trend here? Black Ops 6 sales are around a -50 % decline from MW2 and -15% from MW3. This decline in sales should be very alarming for MS.

Except player numbers are trending higher not lower. How is the Franchise declining?

Sales are in a steep decline because they are stupid enough to give the game away for "free".

Its also doing better on Steam than both MW2 & MWIII.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I never said it did. It's just curious how many posters such as yourself are keen to handwave away Sony's past failures and pretend that they have no bearing on how the future of consoles may play out.
Have Sony become a bigger company since the year 2000 or a diminished one? That doesn't mean they will fail in future but it does suggest that the excessive confidence in Sony from many posters on here isn't justifiable.

You are hedging sooo much not to be too much in obvious console war troll territory that you actually do not make any point at all.

Your post can be summarised as a very very very long winded way of saying “Sony is not perfect, they could do worse than now, they could do better, they have stumbled in the past but so has everyone”.
Which windmills are we fighting against here already?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Except player numbers are trending higher not lower. How is the Franchise declining?

But is player number a valid metric to gauge the trend of a franchise if BO6 launches on a subscription service?

Its also doing better on Steam than both MW2 & MWIII.

I may be missing some data you're referring to. From what I am able to see, I don't think that's the case.

COD on Steam hit its all-time peak 2 years ago. So most likely it was Modern Warfare 2 that was responsible for that peak.

On the other hand, BO6's addition only led to a ~225K peak to COD, which includes BO6, Warzon, MW2, and MW3.

I think this data does show that the franchise is declining a little bit - not just in sales, but even in terms of Steam players - which is understandable to me as other games, especially F2P, become more and more popular, e.g., Fortnite, Helldivers 2, Naraka Bladepoint, Apex Legends, etc.

 

[clarky]

But is player number a valid metric to gauge the trend of a franchise if BO6 launches on a subscription service?

Poster said INTEREST in the franchise was in a steep decline, I think player count is as fair metric as we have for that. I don't see any other way of measuring it at this time. If the next main game has a steep decline in numbers under the same conditions then, i would agree with them obviously.

I may be missing some data you're referring to. From what I am able to see, I don't think that's the case.

COD on Steam hit its all-time peak 2 years ago. So most likely it was Modern Warfare 2 that was responsible for that peak.

On the other hand, BO6's addition only led to a ~225K peak to COD, which includes BO6, Warzon, MW2, and MW3.

I think this data does show that the franchise is declining a little bit - not just in sales, but even in terms of Steam players - which is understandable to me as other games, especially F2P, become more and more popular, e.g., Fortnite, Helldivers 2, Naraka Bladepoint, Apex Legends, etc.

That all time peak on Steam is the warzone 2 launch.

I am comparing launch weekends on the mainline entries. This is MW2's launch weekend on the left. Obviously we have warzone 1 numbers in there also. The CCU low just before launch was around the same so i think its a fair comparison, included the warzone 1 bump for clarity. BLOPS6 on the right.

This is inspite of gamepass on the same platform. I think it looks healthier than ever so far unless im missing something. This is inline with that tweet we discussed the other day in that steam sales are good.

I don't think it will ever hit 500k again as anticipation for Warzone 2 was huge, and Infinity Ward fucked it up. But the mainline games seem as popular as ever, for now at least.

 

[yazenov]

Poster said INTEREST in the franchise was in a steep decline, I think player count is as fair metric as we have for that. I don't see any other way of measuring it at this time. If the next main game has a steep decline in numbers under the same conditions then, i would agree with them obviously.


That all time peak on Steam is the warzone 2 launch.

I am comparing launch weekends on the mainline entries. This is MW2's launch weekend on the left. Obviously we have warzone 1 numbers in there also. The CCU low just before launch was around the same so i think its a fair comparison, included the warzone 1 bump for clarity. BLOPS6 on the right.

This is inspite of gamepass on the same platform. I think it looks healthier than ever so far unless im missing something. This is inline with that tweet we discussed the other day in that steam sales are good.

I don't think it will ever hit 500k again as anticipation for Warzone 2 was huge, and Infinity Ward fucked it up. But the mainline games seem as popular as ever, for now at least.

Unit sales are declining even before "giving it aways for free" from Modern WArfare 3 to 2. I dont get the excuse here.

Also the overall player base decrincese on PC from the very thread:

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2


PC: 225.000 units (27%) [Steam: 71.000]

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

PC: 88.000 units (17%)

Call of Duty: Black Ops 6

PC: 72.000 units (16%)

Its not like it matters if more steam players are playing it. Its in a decline overall.

 

[clarky]

Unit sales are declining even before "giving it aways for free" from Modern WArfare 3 to 2. I dont get the excuse here.

Also the overall player base decrincese on PC from the very thread:

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2


PC: 225.000 units (27%) [Steam: 71.000]

Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3

PC: 88.000 units (17%)

Call of Duty: Black Ops 6

PC: 72.000 units (16%)

Its not like it matters if more steam players are playing it. Its in a decline overall.

Thats just UK Sales numbers. The player base has not decreased, its increased as shown in my last post.

This better CCU on Steam is in spite of BLOPS 6 being available on Gamepass, which has seemingly decimated Xbox sales. Its not an excuse, if anything it shows that GP has failed to lure away significant numbers of players from Steam.

And of course it matters if more people on Steam are playing it, that would equate to more sales WW unless a lot of people got the game for free.

Unless we are not using Steam CCU's to help measure how successful a game is on this forum for this particular title?

 

[Mr Moose]

It's hard to say if there's a player increase or decline on PC since it's MW2, 3, Warzone and BO6.

 

[clarky]

It's hard to say if there's a player increase or decline on PC since it's MW2, 3, Warzone and BO6.

True, its a best guess going off CCU. CODHQ had more players on the BLOPS Launch weekend and they all had a Similar CCU in the week leading upto launch, It would be safe to say the player bump on all 3 weekends comes mainly from the new release.

Player bumps on Steam Weekend of release. Taken from Steamdb. (yes I'm that bored).

MW2: +205,677
MWIII: +116,986
BLOPS6: +237,913 (this actually went up again this last weekend another +9k)

Something is funky with PC sales in the UK because the CCU's don't correlate to the sales on at all. Either im off, or the DB or sales are out Probably me, its been a long week.

 

[m14]

You don't want to ignore the weekly charts that clearly prove you wrong, but what to believe the the Europe monthly chart "proves" your point. LOL.

It would seem curious to focus more on weekly charts from a select few countries rather than the overall chart from the entire continent.

Your words:

And how are their games largely irrelevant to games like NBA 2K when it only sells 10 million copies on MULTIPLE platforms and it's a game that's ONLY popular in the US?

Numbers you posted:

European GSD September 2024 Top 10 (Digital + Physical)​

4 - Astro Bot
6 - NBA 2K

How does it make sense to label a game that is in the top 6 of the European monthly chart as "only popular in the US"?
And that chart is just listing copies sold, imagine how much money 2K will generate in Europe through DLC / microtransactions for 2K25 over the next year?

As for legs... have a look at the most played PS5 games in September. There's two 2K games on there and the only Sony game on the list is one that's bundled with every console:

https://newzoo.com/resources/rankings/top-ps5-games

Are you arguing against Sony 1st party sales?

2K22 sold 10M copies.

God of War Ragnarök sold 15M copies.

Both released the same year.

I didn't argue against their sales. I pointed out that monthly active users and particularly total revenue are more important at this point than purely copies sold.

GOW outselling one yearly edition of 2K doesn't tell us much, especially when 2K typically gets played regularly for a year, generating money constantly through microtransactions, while many GOW players never even finish the campaign once. Due to the nature of yearly sports titles 2K has had three releases since 2021, so it would be more instructive to compare with the combined sales of all the 2k titles released since that year.

My main point was that COD/GTA/Sports games are far more important to the mass market than any of Sony's first party titles. That shouldn't be considered a controversial statement.

You are hedging sooo much not to be too much in obvious console war troll territory that you actually do not make any point at all.

Your post can be summarised as a very very very long winded way of saying “Sony is not perfect, they could do worse than now, they could do better, they have stumbled in the past but so has everyone”.
Which windmills are we fighting against here already?

I was just pointing out their own history as a company. How they have been the market leader with devices before, only to lose that position to more innovative companies. Many posters here find that historical reality uncomfortable, especially when they are so invested in the success of Sony's consoles.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

I didn't argue against their sales. I pointed out that monthly active users and particularly total revenue are more important at this point than purely copies sold.

GOW outselling one yearly edition of 2K doesn't tell us much, especially when 2K typically gets played regularly for a year, generating money constantly through microtransactions, while many GOW players never even finish the campaign once. Due to the nature of yearly sports titles 2K has had three releases since 2021, so it would be more instructive to compare with the combined sales of all the 2k titles released since that year.

My main point was that COD/GTA/Sports games are far more important to the mass market than any of Sony's first party titles. That shouldn't be considered a controversial statement.

Your logic is highly flawed.

Those 10M copies for NBA 2k22 are from multiple platforms (PS, PC, Xbox and Switch), whereas the 15M GOWR sales are just from PS.

You could argue that NBA is more than just NBA 2K22, but Sony releases more games. This year HD2 alone sold 12+M copies, as did Astro Bot.

Claiming Sony values a game like NBA2K more than their 1st party output is narrowminded at best.

But since you shifted to COD/GTA/Sports now, this only points out how Sony is putting more and more value on their 1st party output, as they've literally stated they will focus on becoming less reliant on 3rd party. Their current Gaas-strategy is part of them becoming more reliant on their 1st party output.

So you might have a point that revenue is more important, your claim that they value 3rd party more than their 1st party is false.

 

[m14]

Your logic is highly flawed.

Those 10M copies for NBA 2k22 are from multiple platforms (PS, PC, Xbox and Switch), whereas the 15M GOWR sales are just from PS.

You could argue that NBA is more than just NBA 2K22, but Sony releases more games. This year HD2 alone sold 12+M copies, as did Astro Bot.

Claiming Sony values a game like NBA2K more than their 1st party output is narrowminded at best.

But since you shifted to COD/GTA/Sports now, this only points out how Sony is putting more and more value on their 1st party output, as they've literally stated they will focus on becoming less reliant on 3rd party. Their current Gaas-strategy is part of them becoming more reliant on their 1st party output.

So you might have a point that revenue is more important, your claim that they value 3rd party more than their 1st party is false.

2K was just one of a number of games I listed, but another poster became obsessed with debating its popularity outside of the US.
I also wasn't setting out to compare numbers of copies sold between Sony's first party games and third party titles because my whole point was that total revenue and active users are of increasing significance.

I never claimed that Sony value NBA2K (or other third party titles) more than their first party games, although they clearly value it enough to bundle it with PS5 consoles.
What I'm saying is that COD/GTA/Sports games are more important to a lot of console buyers than Sony's first party games.

 

[DForce]

How does it make sense to label a game that is in the top 6 of the European monthly chart as "only popular in the US"?
And that chart is just listing copies sold, imagine how much money 2K will generate in Europe through DLC / microtransactions for 2K25 over the next year?

A game doesn't need to sell a lot of copies to make 6th on the sales chart. That's what you don't understand.
This isn't about how much money is generated in Europe, this is about what game is more popular in Europe.

Sony exclusives are selling way more than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football, which you claim are more relevant than Sony exclusives.

Facts show these games are not popular outside of the US market and Sony games are more popular worldwide.

And Sony exclusives were beating these 3 games on a single platform while the other games were multiplatform.

As for legs... have a look at the most played PS5 games in September. There's two 2K games on there and the only Sony game on the list is one that's bundled with every console:
https://newzoo.com/resources/rankings/top-ps5-games

These are not sales legs, that's time played. You're getting desperate. lol

A bundle also doesn't mean it's popular in Europe. Sony bundled Driveclub several times and the game was not successful at all.

Microsoft bundled Forza Motosports for years and the series struggles to reach 1M in sales.

You want to latch on to the monthly Europe chart, but ignore the weekly sales results and discredit it because you hate being wrong.

The sales legs are bad in Europe and the game is not popular. An actual popular game would show BETTER debut sales and long sales legs, but there's NOTHING that confirms your claim that it will sell well for months and months in Europe. LOL



You're going to continue to spin facts. lol

 

[DForce]

2K was just one of a number of games I listed, but another poster became obsessed with debating its popularity outside of the US.
I also wasn't setting out to compare numbers of copies sold between Sony's first party games and third party titles because my whole point was that total revenue and active users are of increasing significance.

I never claimed that Sony value NBA2K (or other third party titles) more than their first party games, although they clearly value it enough to bundle it with PS5 consoles.
What I'm saying is that COD/GTA/Sports games are more important to a lot of console buyers than Sony's first party games.

Again, how are they more important to console buyers when Sony exclusives are selling 2-3 times more than NBA, Madden, and College Football on the PlayStation platform?

 

[m14]

A game doesn't need to sell a lot of copies to make 6th on the sales chart. That's what you don't understand.

You claimed that NBA 2K was "only popular in the US" and then went on to post a European chart which disproved your own claim. And you don't have numbers to back up your assertion that the 6th best selling game on an entire continent for a month didn't "sell a lot of copies." And once again I remind you, I am not here to debate copies sold when there are other more useful metrics of a game's success in the present day.

Sony exclusives are selling way more than NBA 2K, Madden, and College Football, which you claim are more relevant than Sony exclusives.

Facts show these games are not popular outside of the US market and Sony games are more popular worldwide.

Where did I even mention NCAA College Football? When did I claim Madden was popular outside of the US? And again you're ignoring EAFC, a game which is lot more relevant in the European market than any of Sony's games. You also don't seem keen to challenge COD and GTA being more relevant on PS5 than Sony's first party titles.

Here's the most played monthly games on PS5 for you, once again:

https://newzoo.com/resources/rankings/top-ps5-games

Five sports titles on the list (six if we include rocket league) and the only Sony first party title present is literally a game packed with every PS5 console. There's their "relevance."

You want to focus purely on copies sold because it's the only metric by which you can argue that Sony's first party games are more popular than the games most people are actually playing. Unfortunately for you, total revenue and the monthly active users paint a very different picture. A lot of players never even complete the campaigns in Sony's games yet somehow you think they are more popular / relevant than games that the majority of PS5 users are playing literally every day.

These are not sales legs, that's time played. You're getting desperate. lol

Time played is a much greater indicator of ongoing popularity and relevance. And in any case we don't know about NBA2K's sales legs in Europe when the game has only been out for two months.

A bundle also doesn't mean it's popular in Europe. Sony bundled Driveclub several times and the game was not successful at all.

I never mentioned the NBA 2K25 / PS5 bundles in relation to Europe, it was to show that Sony recognise sports games as a major driver of console sales.

You want to latch on to the monthly Europe chart, but ignore the weekly sales results and discredit it because you hate being wrong.

Because literally the monthly European chart gives us an overall view of how popular the game is on the continent for an entire month. That's a lot more useful that showing the third week sales of 2K in Belgium or whatever other handpicked chart you used to desperately convince us that no-one on Europe cares about this game.
And just to explain the obvious- the weekly sales results are irrelevant when you provided the European sales chart for the entire month.

The sales legs are bad in Europe and the game is not popular. An actual popular game would show BETTER debut sales and long sales legs, but there's NOTHING that confirms your claim that it will sell well for months and months in Europe. LOL

How can you state that as fact when you have provided one monthly sales chart? "Sales legs" won't be known until we have the October European sales, then November etc. You want to declare it hasn't got sales longevity before it's even been out long enough to back up your claim.

Again, how are they more important to console buyers when Sony exclusives are selling 2-3 times more than NBA, Madden, and College Football on the PlayStation platform?

Because NBA2K, Madden and NCAACF do not constitute the entirety of the sports franchises on PS5. There is also EAFC and others. These are yearly releases. You're comparing for example GOW lifetime sales on PS5 vs one edition of NBA2K etc when in reality lifetime sales of each major sports franchise on the PS5 platform will be higher. Not to mention the gulf in total revenue and relevance as shown by the monthly active users.

 

[DForce]

You claimed that NBA 2K was "only popular in the US" and then went on to post a European chart which disproved your own claim. And you don't have numbers to back up your assertion that the 6th best selling game on an entire continent for a month didn't "sell a lot of copies." And once again I remind you, I am not here to debate copies sold when there are other more useful metrics of a game's success in the present day.

I posted numbers and you tried to discredit them.

I can post MANY niche titles that made it to the top 10 in the first month that weren't popular.

European GSD August 2024 Top 10 (Digital + Physical)

1 - Star Wars Outlaws (Ubisoft)

Circana (NPD) August 2024 Top 20
3 - Star Wars Outlaw

European GSD February 2024 Top 10 (Digital + Physical)
9 - Skull and Bones
Circana (NPD) August 2024 Top 20
3 - Skull and Bones


Star Wars sold 1 million in 3 days, but only two days were tracked in Europe.

Skull and Bones only attracted 850k players during this time so that means the sales were lower.


If we were to go by your ridiculous logic, then that would mean these are popular titles when they're not.

Where did I even mention NCAA College Football? When did I claim Madden was popular outside of the US? And again you're ignoring EAFC, a game which is lot more relevant in the European market than any of Sony's games. You also don't seem keen to challenge COD and GTA being more relevant on PS5 than Sony's first party titles.

Here's the most played monthly games on PS5 for you, once again:
https://newzoo.com/resources/rankings/top-ps5-games Five sports titles on the list (six if we include rocket league) and the only Sony first party title present is literally a game packed with every PS5 console. There's their "relevance."

Your argument is so bad that you completely forget what you're telling me.

NCAA was in the top most played charts and you say they're irrelevant compared to Sony's exclusive and I'm disputing that terrible argument.

I'm not ignoring EAFC because I know it's popular, but you're the one claiming the top 20 list is proof they're more relevant than Sony's exclusive. Stop moving the goalpost.

You want to focus purely on copies sold because it's the only metric by which you can argue that Sony's first party games are more popular than the games most people are actually playing. Unfortunately for you, total revenue and the monthly active users paint a very different picture. A lot of players never even complete the campaigns in Sony's games yet somehow you think they are more popular / relevant than games that the majority of PS5 users are playing literally every day.

They sell millions more copies that means they're more popular.

I never mentioned the NBA 2K25 / PS5 bundles in relation to Europe, it was to show that Sony recognise sports games as a major driver of console sales.

You used it to counter my Europe argument. Now you're moving the goalpost.

Because literally the monthly European chart gives us an overall view of how popular the game is on the continent for an entire month. That's a lot more useful that showing the third week sales of 2K in Belgium or whatever other handpicked chart you used to desperately convince us that no-one on Europe cares about this game.
And just to explain the obvious- the weekly sales results are irrelevant when you provided the European sales chart for the entire month.

No. lol

You claimed Astro Bot started off strong but NBA would sell more month after month in Europe. I shot that claim down because NBA disappeared from the sales charts. Now you want to go around saying it doesn't matter because it completely destroyed your claim.

How can you state that as fact when you have provided one monthly sales chart? "Sales legs" won't be known until we have the October European sales, then November etc. You want to declare it hasn't got sales longevity before it's even been out long enough to back up your claim.

Give up, dude. lol

Video game sales have been discussed for years and we can easily spot poor sales legs.

Because NBA2K, Madden and NCAACF do not constitute the entirety of the sports franchises on PS5. There is also EAFC and others. These are yearly releases. You're comparing for example GOW lifetime sales on PS5 vs one edition of NBA2K etc when in reality lifetime sales of each major sports franchise on the PS5 platform will be higher. Not to mention the gulf in total revenue and relevance as shown by the monthly active users.

"Entirety"

Now you want to include other sports titles when you named specific titles. LOL

Nope, not going to work.

 

[m14]

I posted numbers and you tried to discredit them.

You discredited your own claim that "NBA2K is only popular in the US" by posting the monthly sales chart for Europe, which showed that it was the sixth best selling game in the entire the continent during September. You included that chart at the end of your post and were instead highlighting handpicked weekly charts from a couple of individual countries.

Your argument is so bad that you completely forget what you're telling me.

NCAA was in the top most played charts and you say they're irrelevant compared to Sony's exclusive and I'm disputing that terrible argument.

I'm not ignoring EAFC because I know it's popular, but you're the one claiming the top 20 list is proof they're more relevant than Sony's exclusive. Stop moving the goalpost.

I never once named College Football or Madden or ever claimed they were popular outside of the US market. You are the one who keeps mentioning those two games.
But yes they are along with other sports games in the top 20 most played currently, unlike Sony's first party titles.

They sell millions more copies that means they're more popular.

No it doesn't. Not when other games are being played far more and generating greater total revenues. It doesn't make sense just to narrowly focus on copies sold alone when some of the most played games in the world are free to play.

You used it to counter my Europe argument. Now you're moving the goalpost.

No, I posted the picture of the bundle to show that Sony are bundling PS5s with a third party sports game.

You claimed Astro Bot started off strong but NBA would sell more month after month in Europe. I shot that claim down because NBA disappeared from the sales charts. Now you want to go around saying it doesn't matter because it completely destroyed your claim.

Weekly sales charts from two or three handpicked countries do nothing to support your claim that "NBA2K isn't popular about the US."

Video game sales have been discussed for years and we can easily spot poor sales legs.

Yes apparently you can even spot them before the October/November/December etc monthly sales charts are posted.
You only started talking about "sales legs" when you realised 2K25's strong debut in September debunked your own claim that the 2K franchise isn't popular in Europe.

 

[Edmund]

M m14 go rub one out and sleep ffs.

 

[DForce]

You discredited your own claim that "NBA2K is only popular in the US" by posting the monthly sales chart for Europe, which showed that it was the sixth best selling game in the entire the continent during September. You included that chart at the end of your post and were instead highlighting handpicked weekly charts from a couple of individual countries.

As predicted, you ignore information that destroys your argument. lol

You said it's proof that the game is popular in Europe because it was 6th on the sales chart.

Are Skull and Bones and Star Wars Outlaw popular even though BOTH games FLOPPED?

I never once named College Football or Madden or ever claimed they were popular outside of the US market. You are the one who keeps mentioning those two games.
But yes they are along with other sports games in the top 20 most played currently, unlike Sony's first party titles.

No, you said games on the top 20 list were more relevant than Sony exclusives because they're played more. Now you're trying move the goalpost after I showed you these games were not popular outside of the US.

No, I posted the picture of the bundle to show that Sony are bundling PS5s with a third party sports game.

No.

Weekly sales charts from two or three handpicked countries do nothing to support your claim that "NBA2K isn't popular about the US."

I showed you Spain, Italy, Belgium, France, UK, and Japan (outside of Europe) to show you the poor sales legs. I said Germany showed similar results because it disappeared after 1 week.

These are the biggest markets in Europe. You just glanced at the charts and came up with some lame excuse because it proved your claim wrong that it would sell for months and months in Europe better than Astro. lol

Yes apparently you can even spot them before the October/November/December etc monthly sales charts are posted.
You only started talking about "sales legs" when you realised 2K25's strong debut in September debunked your own claim that the 2K franchise isn't popular in Europe.

No, I used sales legs after you claimed it would sell good for months and months.

Being 6th didn't debunk my claim. You believe the sales were strong because it was 6th and I told just because it's 6th doesn't mean sales were big. I can give many of examples of this happening on sales charts, but you ignored my two examples for obvious reasons. The sales legs during the first month also proved it was a small amount of sales.

This is why you ignored my two examples of Skull and Bones and Star Wars Outlaw. I can show MANY examples where games have low sales figures and they still make the top 10 sales charts.

It's simple: You don't want to admit that you're wrong.

 

[SneakersSO]

S SneakersSO Any thoughts about the initial numbers we're getting. Your insight is greatly valued.

Sure. Heres a fantastic tl;dr on the situation by Tsaki

With 74% of sales on PlayStation, it could lead someone to think this was physical-only. It puts the comment 'Sony might be the biggest winner from BO6's release' into perspective—not only did they see a 30% increase, but they also saved the yearly marketing budget they had been pouring into CoD.

So, this was always a gamble from MS. I believe they truly hoped that the service & software would bring in a massive influx of new users, instead of a reconfiguration of an existing userbase. This reconfiguration has been noted, though, for several major titles and IPs for at least 4-5 years now. I remember when I first looked at the data for Gears 5 and how this affected them.

I think this was their last true attempt at entertaining the notion that MS could get folks to buy into this model who weren't already a part of it. They have tried ever-increasingly large releases over time to see if this would be it, and it never materializes.

The core issue now, though, is how expensive CoD's inclusion is for them relative to some of their prior attempts. My understanding from speaking to folks was that CoD's inclusion would permanently transform the business model of GP and where that revenue would be going. Prior, there was a more even distributed model, with the revenue coming in getting distributed between a variety of projects along several different metrics. The hope has always been that the service itself would bring in new users into the Xbox eco, and then those users turn around and start doing MTX purchases, which lets MS make up the difference. Less money up front, but far more money long-term. The issue is, the userbase growth needed to hit this has simply never come, and on top of that, their entire HW marketshare position is in the shitter.

So now, the GP division basically gets turned into a money funnel for CoD, which empowers the ATVI folks who have been steadily taking over Xbox, all while Spencer's team who still wants to 'fight the good fight' on 'console wars' get completely shunned out of authority. Sony gets to both increase its sales on their platform thanks to the Xbox HW eco shriveling up in real-time, and Sony also saves money on the marketing license budget & fees they used to payout but no longer have to. Honestly, I think the greatest thing to ever happen to Sony & Playstation was letting Phil Spencer take over the Xbox division.

 

[mckmas8808]

Sure. Heres a fantastic tl;dr on the situation by Tsaki


So, this was always a gamble from MS. I believe they truly hoped that the service & software would bring in a massive influx of new users, instead of a reconfiguration of an existing userbase. This reconfiguration has been noted, though, for several major titles and IPs for at least 4-5 years now. I remember when I first looked at the data for Gears 5 and how this affected them.

I think this was their last true attempt at entertaining the notion that MS could get folks to buy into this model who weren't already a part of it. They have tried ever-increasingly large releases over time to see if this would be it, and it never materializes.

The core issue now, though, is how expensive CoD's inclusion is for them relative to some of their prior attempts. My understanding from speaking to folks was that CoD's inclusion would permanently transform the business model of GP and where that revenue would be going. Prior, there was a more even distributed model, with the revenue coming in getting distributed between a variety of projects along several different metrics. The hope has always been that the service itself would bring in new users into the Xbox eco, and then those users turn around and start doing MTX purchases, which lets MS make up the difference. Less money up front, but far more money long-term. The issue is, the userbase growth needed to hit this has simply never come, and on top of that, their entire HW marketshare position is in the shitter.

So now, the GP division basically gets turned into a money funnel for CoD, which empowers the ATVI folks who have been steadily taking over Xbox, all while Spencer's team who still wants to 'fight the good fight' on 'console wars' get completely shunned out of authority. Sony gets to both increase its sales on their platform thanks to the Xbox HW eco shriveling up in real-time, and Sony also saves money on the marketing license budget & fees they used to payout but no longer have to. Honestly, I think the greatest thing to ever happen to Sony & Playstation was letting Phil Spencer take over the Xbox division.

The masterclass stroke on this for Playstation is something that needs to be studied at colleges and business classes for decades. There needs to be lessons told on what NOT to do in business with GamePass being the lead subject. WOW!!!!

 

[Astray]

So now, the GP division basically gets turned into a money funnel for CoD, which empowers the ATVI folks who have been steadily taking over Xbox, all while Spencer's team who still wants to 'fight the good fight' on 'console wars' get completely shunned out of authority.

This part is very interesting to me, is there an ATVI x Xbox cultural battle happening at MS Gaming?

Because if it is, then there are certain moves that are happening in this holiday season (like holiday discounts on consoles etc) that signal who is truly winning that battle, it's like MS is not even trying to keep Xbox relevant.

 

[mayham2199]

Sure. Heres a fantastic tl;dr on the situation by Tsaki


So, this was always a gamble from MS. I believe they truly hoped that the service & software would bring in a massive influx of new users, instead of a reconfiguration of an existing userbase. This reconfiguration has been noted, though, for several major titles and IPs for at least 4-5 years now. I remember when I first looked at the data for Gears 5 and how this affected them.

I think this was their last true attempt at entertaining the notion that MS could get folks to buy into this model who weren't already a part of it. They have tried ever-increasingly large releases over time to see if this would be it, and it never materializes.

The core issue now, though, is how expensive CoD's inclusion is for them relative to some of their prior attempts. My understanding from speaking to folks was that CoD's inclusion would permanently transform the business model of GP and where that revenue would be going. Prior, there was a more even distributed model, with the revenue coming in getting distributed between a variety of projects along several different metrics. The hope has always been that the service itself would bring in new users into the Xbox eco, and then those users turn around and start doing MTX purchases, which lets MS make up the difference. Less money up front, but far more money long-term. The issue is, the userbase growth needed to hit this has simply never come, and on top of that, their entire HW marketshare position is in the shitter.

So now, the GP division basically gets turned into a money funnel for CoD, which empowers the ATVI folks who have been steadily taking over Xbox, all while Spencer's team who still wants to 'fight the good fight' on 'console wars' get completely shunned out of authority. Sony gets to both increase its sales on their platform thanks to the Xbox HW eco shriveling up in real-time, and Sony also saves money on the marketing license budget & fees they used to payout but no longer have to. Honestly, I think the greatest thing to ever happen to Sony & Playstation was letting Phil Spencer take over the Xbox division.

You and HeisenbergFX4 have both mentioned how this was sort of their last big push to get GP to actually grow the way they need it and it amazes me that MS is this dumb. How could they possibly think one game is going to completely rejuvenate and fix GP? It's scary that there are people in Xbox that are this desperate to get it to work and have some sort of belief that one game can do it. Yet when Phil talks about converting users to Xbox he claims an 11/11 game wont do that, yet he thinks it can save his sub service?

 

[RetroGamingUK]

It's alarming how reliant Sony are on third party games. It certainly doesn't bode well for their future in a potential post console world.

Aren’t you the same person who was banging on about GTA6 saving Xbox a few weeks back?

 

[Esparadrapo]

You and HeisenbergFX4 have both mentioned how this was sort of their last big push to get GP to actually grow the way they need it and it amazes me that MS is this dumb. How could they possibly think one game is going to completely rejuvenate and fix GP? It's scary that there are people in Xbox that are this desperate to get it to work and have some sort of belief that one game can do it. Yet when Phil talks about converting users to Xbox he claims an 11/11 game wont do that, yet he thinks it can save his sub service?T

The ABK buyout was planned when Series was selling on par with PS5. The purchase wasn't complete and hardware sales fell off a cliff while Game Pass numbers froze so they were out of options after over promising far too much for a dying ecosystem. They can't make anything exclusive because it would be suicidal and their revenue suffers a lot when they put sales juggernauts in a subscription service that just doesn't grow. I don't think suits at Microsoft are stupid and they probably thought that by buying ABK the most likely scenario was becoming a third party but buying ABK generates more revenue than having $75b rotting in the bank so for a trillion dollar company it's just like "whatevs".

The failure of Xbox isn't even a teaching lesson for Microsoft because they aren't really losing anything and the important bit was the bet. You miss all the shots you don't take and Microsoft has endless money for this kind of shit.

 

[Ronin_7]

So...

Sony saved money on marketing.
Sony had the biggest share of sales.
Sony gets 30% from all sales instead of 20%.

Phil Spencer is a magician.

 

[Astray]

You and HeisenbergFX4 have both mentioned how this was sort of their last big push to get GP to actually grow the way they need it and it amazes me that MS is this dumb. How could they possibly think one game is going to completely rejuvenate and fix GP? It's scary that there are people in Xbox that are this desperate to get it to work and have some sort of belief that one game can do it. Yet when Phil talks about converting users to Xbox he claims an 11/11 game wont do that, yet he thinks it can save his sub service?

Silver bullet thinking is very common in dying divisions and companies.

Xbox has been trying silver bullets for almost half a decade if not more.

 

[Klayzer]

So...

Sony saved money on marketing.
Sony had the biggest share of sales.
Sony gets 30% from all sales instead of 20%.

Phil Spencer is a magician.

From a Microsoft's business perspective, it makes more sense, to let Sony pay them for marketing rights. It could possibly offset, some of the revenue lost on the Xbox platform.

 

[SweetTooth]

Where is week 44 data?

 

[demigod]

Sure. Heres a fantastic tl;dr on the situation by Tsaki


So, this was always a gamble from MS. I believe they truly hoped that the service & software would bring in a massive influx of new users, instead of a reconfiguration of an existing userbase. This reconfiguration has been noted, though, for several major titles and IPs for at least 4-5 years now. I remember when I first looked at the data for Gears 5 and how this affected them.

I think this was their last true attempt at entertaining the notion that MS could get folks to buy into this model who weren't already a part of it. They have tried ever-increasingly large releases over time to see if this would be it, and it never materializes.

The core issue now, though, is how expensive CoD's inclusion is for them relative to some of their prior attempts. My understanding from speaking to folks was that CoD's inclusion would permanently transform the business model of GP and where that revenue would be going. Prior, there was a more even distributed model, with the revenue coming in getting distributed between a variety of projects along several different metrics. The hope has always been that the service itself would bring in new users into the Xbox eco, and then those users turn around and start doing MTX purchases, which lets MS make up the difference. Less money up front, but far more money long-term. The issue is, the userbase growth needed to hit this has simply never come, and on top of that, their entire HW marketshare position is in the shitter.

So now, the GP division basically gets turned into a money funnel for CoD, which empowers the ATVI folks who have been steadily taking over Xbox, all while Spencer's team who still wants to 'fight the good fight' on 'console wars' get completely shunned out of authority. Sony gets to both increase its sales on their platform thanks to the Xbox HW eco shriveling up in real-time, and Sony also saves money on the marketing license budget & fees they used to payout but no longer have to. Honestly, I think the greatest thing to ever happen to Sony & Playstation was letting Phil Spencer take over the Xbox division.

Been saying it for years, Phil Spencer is Playstations best CEO.

 

[RoboFu]

How about more global sales not just UK. The obsession with uk only sales threads is creepy. Stop stalking the uk..

 

[Synastry]

How about more global sales not just UK. The obsession with uk only sales threads is creepy. Stop stalking the uk..

You do realize your in a UK sales thread right?

There are sales threads for the US, Europe and Japan.

 

[RoboFu]

You do realize your in a UK sales thread right?

There are sales threads for the US, Europe and Japan.

It was half joking, but just search sales on here and count how many UK threads there are until you hit another kind