Kabuki Waq
Member
trmas said:
yea its almost like the losers who praise CG clips of games.
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Frame City Killers Update (360) Screens
- Thread starter olimario
- Start date
yea its almost like the losers who praise CG clips of games.
KingJ2002
Member
attention to details matters this gen.
lil shit like grass and nose hairs better be there if they're going to bitch about dev costs and how they need to pass it down to consumers.
I mean... all i've been hearing is cg graphics this... realism that... "these systems are more than capable to fullfill our imaginations" blah blah blah.
you here all this... and get games like fuckin frame city killer which looks like something that can be done on the xbox.
the game looks far from realistic... it looks lifeless... the charatcers look like a bunch of toys from mattel.
and like I said the envornments looks like something from Midnight Club 3 but based in the daytime.
this game better be a budget title or namco is smoking some serious ganga
lil shit like grass and nose hairs better be there if they're going to bitch about dev costs and how they need to pass it down to consumers.
I mean... all i've been hearing is cg graphics this... realism that... "these systems are more than capable to fullfill our imaginations" blah blah blah.
you here all this... and get games like fuckin frame city killer which looks like something that can be done on the xbox.
the game looks far from realistic... it looks lifeless... the charatcers look like a bunch of toys from mattel.
and like I said the envornments looks like something from Midnight Club 3 but based in the daytime.
this game better be a budget title or namco is smoking some serious ganga
launch games are rushed. get over it. i'm sure if they had 6-12 more months dev time they could fix all the stuff everyone is complaining about, and some/most of it probably will be fixed by release. It looks okay, but then again when has a comparable game to this ever looked AWESOME?
GitarooMan
Member
KingJ2002 said:
I don't think this looks like the best of the X360 games, but I don't understand all the hate.
Not to beat a dead horse, but no fuckin' way this could be done on a xbox. And before anyone pulls some Riddick or Ninja Gaiden answer, here is a side-by side comparison
I don't understand how this doesn't look a lot better, plus it's running in 720p (which I know a lot of people on the boards don't think is a big difference, but absolutely is IMO)
GitarooMan
Member
newsguy said:
I agree it's a huge difference (if you read what I'm saying), I'm just saying I've seen a lot of people who dismiss this part of the X360.
KingJ2002
Member
briefcasemanx said:
No.
briefcasemanx said:
Don't give me that "it's a launch title" bull... other X360 launch games look amazing... and this game looks like something that can be done on current systems. Namco should have put just as much effort as other UE3 games... they want to sell a million copies of this game... they want it to be one of the xbox 360's best and it looks like little effort has been put into it compared to games like elder scrolls oblivion, project gotham racing 3, ghost recon 3, kameo, etc. etc. etc.
I rarely jump into these graphic whore debates but this game looks rediculous. It's a insult to consumers when you promise next gen graphics and deliver this... and have the nerve to sell it 10 dollars more than current prices because of the A.T.D that next gen games receive.
KingJ2002
Member
GitarooMan said:
well... that's ultimately my point with this game... it looks like a touched up version of a xbox game with a 1280x720 resolution. If the 360 can do far more than this... and games like PGR3, GOW, etc. prove this... how can someone justify this game as a good looking 360 game... when it clearly isnt... it's not even mediocre in my eyes.
if you take chaos theory... and develop that game for HD setups... it would look comparable to FCK IMO.
Shogmaster
Member
KingJ2002 said:
And it would run 6 fps.....
CamHostage
Member
tehama said:
Look at it this way: at least it doesn't have dudes in bump-mapped plate armor waltzing around the way every UE3 or DOOM3 engine game seems to.
I busted a gut when I saw this image from SK's Too Human ... It's like some dude from UT2007 snuck inside and suddenly went pogo'ing through their game when the producer went to take a picture. He's even got that look on his face: "Uh-oh, wrong game..."
CosmicGroinPull
Member
BuckRobotron said:It has been nice so far to see steady improvement from each batch of new shots to the next. And seeing what they've got going now, she should look pretty damned pretty in-game...
Mmmmm, yes. The chicks in this game are FINE......
KingJ2002
Member
Schafer said:
yea... i think I will take a step back from my previous comments or better yet... clearify.
The environments and the large city is what makes the game next gen... the city is big... but the attention to detail isnt that great which is where my problem lies... the characters don't have the next gen touch... they dont have the next gen AOD which developers promised. The little things like grass, a noticable breeze, strands of hair, would make this game look better... but because it isnt there... the game looks like it wasnt made with a going beyond current gen standards... namco just expanded the world and used some UE3 techniques.
I actually wanted this game when i first saw it... thinking the game would be cool and over time the game will shine... but it didnt... im hoping the final product will be good enough to make this game a million seller... but so far... it looks like it will be the first 360 gamein the bargain bin.
Without a comparison that is not done within your seemingly inaccurate memory, this argument is worthless.KingJ2002 said:
KingJ2002 said:
Since when did any of those games have 50+ fully modelled characters onscreen in a crowded, high polygon city environment? Kameo has tons of guys in it one scene but it in a field and they are all exactly the same doing the same animation i.e. not comparable.
Secondly, are you a time traveller?- cause apparently you know what the final game will look like in motion at 720p. The biggest thing I see is it need some texture retouching in places and better hair. Other than that it's not bad at all. Those are things that could be fixed by launch, assuming the frame rate is already up to par.
Your clarification only makes it apparent that you're judging them on solely on how they look and not what they are.KingJ2002 said:
Much like how the GTA series sucks graphically compared to the best looking games this gen (non of which are free roaming) because of what it's doing, FCK obviously isn't going to look as good as games like GoW, PGR3 etc.
What you should be comparing it to is Saints Row and other games in the genre. Even that still may not be a fair comparison either because we don't know the extent of the city or it's intricacies in either game.
KingJ2002
Member
briefcasemanx said:
I chose to not bring out screenshots of other games to keep this thread on track. I also own a Xbox but since that isnt relevant to this thread... let's get back on track.
I dont think this game is a true leap to the next gen... seems in between IMO. It could be because of the fact that the game has a big environment. but from my eyes... what i see... is nothing close to "near cg quality" that other launch titles brought... looking at this game.. then turning around and looking at others that also has big environments. The first impression I got from these screens was... this doesnt look good (based on the bar set by other titles that are also in development).
Over time this game will look better of course since it's not that close to launch and like Deg said... Namco tends to take out the rough edges over time.
That's what im hoping for.
I'm hoping for more detail in the environment and on the characters.
until I see that... the game will be one of the least impressive titles i've seen so far on the 360.
Personally I love the look of this game... the only bad vibe I'm getting is the fact it just LOOKS like Matrix Online in a single player enviroment... If you've played MXO then you gota know what I'm talking about, the scope is obviously larger in this game ,but I just get a Matrix Online vibe every picture I see (not in a this game is gonna suck vibe, just the LOOK of the game heh)
KingJ2002 said:
It amazes me that despite all the explanations in this thread, you still don't seem to understand why a game like this can't (and shouldn't be expected to) look as good as ones with smaller environments and/or fewer unique characters onscreen at the same time.
Consoles are only able to push so many polys, textures, and fx at one time. A developer can concentrate all those resources on displaying a small number of highly-detailed characters in a confined environment (like you'd find in a fighting game), spread them out to create huge, wide-open environments filled with characters and objects at the expense of detail (along the lines of GTA or King's Row), or aim somewhere in between.
Judging by your posts, the only defining element for 'next-gen' visuals is how detailed the characters and backgrounds are. It doesn't seem to matter to you if there's two characters onscreen at once or fifty, whether they're in a single room or the heart of a city that you're free to explore in realtime, everything should look like prerendered CG or it's not 'next-gen'. In short, you're exactly the type of person I had in mind when I posted about peoples' unrealistic expectations earlier in the thread.
You're not going to get 50+ unique characters onscreen in a free-roaming city environment at anything approaching a playable framerate and have it look like Advent Children. Things just don't work that way. Scale back your expectations to slightly less absurd levels and you'll be a lot happier with the upcoming generation. Jesus Christ it's impossible.
I'm again shocked at how many posters here doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what it implies to program a videogame and also ask stuff to an game engine.
GTA graphics are bad compared against Metal Gear Solid because of what the game have to do within the possibilities of the hardware. Is it that hard to understand why a character in GTA could be made out of 1000 polys and Snake out of 5 000?
I'm tired of this shit: let's say you're god damned able to have only 20 000 polys for your characters on-screen at the same time (let's say it's the limitation of your engine without dropping too much under 20 fps).
You have 5 characters on-screen (ala MGS) then your characters can use 5 000 each.
You have 10 characters on-screen (ala GTA) then your characters can only use 1000 each.
Of course those aren't real numbers, it's just for the dumb fucks to understands the principle on how to determine if a graphic is good or not. This same principle goes also for textures res, number of different textures, sounds, etc.
Another thing that many people does not take into consideration is AI. Put it really simple: pretty much anything that moves takes AI. Scripted events also takes speed.
When you have 6 to 10 characters + 5 to 10 cars + full screens special effects + very far draw distance + unbelievable amount of sprites on screen + what runs in the background and is always there, this engine that is ready to make you shoot, drive, swim, fly, etc. = You can't ask GTASA to look better, believe me.
Frame City Killer may just be a fucking nice looking game. There seems to be a tremendous amount of stuff on-screen at the same time. As bad as GTA may look for some compared to the best looking PS2 games, Frame City Killers may look just as bad compared the to best looking next-gen games.
It's all about what the game do. And open games like GTA ask A FREAKIN LOT out of your hardware guys.
People really does need to work in computer programming or videogame production to understand that graphic quality is contextual to what the game do vs the limits of you hardware??? Jeez.
Thanks to Pimbaa and Shogmaster (and prolly some others outta here) for not being stupid.
--- About the game: i don't like the normal mapped hairs - yuk. This could be better i'm sure.
I'm again shocked at how many posters here doesn't seem to have a fucking clue what it implies to program a videogame and also ask stuff to an game engine.
GTA graphics are bad compared against Metal Gear Solid because of what the game have to do within the possibilities of the hardware. Is it that hard to understand why a character in GTA could be made out of 1000 polys and Snake out of 5 000?
I'm tired of this shit: let's say you're god damned able to have only 20 000 polys for your characters on-screen at the same time (let's say it's the limitation of your engine without dropping too much under 20 fps).
You have 5 characters on-screen (ala MGS) then your characters can use 5 000 each.
You have 10 characters on-screen (ala GTA) then your characters can only use 1000 each.
Of course those aren't real numbers, it's just for the dumb fucks to understands the principle on how to determine if a graphic is good or not. This same principle goes also for textures res, number of different textures, sounds, etc.
Another thing that many people does not take into consideration is AI. Put it really simple: pretty much anything that moves takes AI. Scripted events also takes speed.
When you have 6 to 10 characters + 5 to 10 cars + full screens special effects + very far draw distance + unbelievable amount of sprites on screen + what runs in the background and is always there, this engine that is ready to make you shoot, drive, swim, fly, etc. = You can't ask GTASA to look better, believe me.
Frame City Killer may just be a fucking nice looking game. There seems to be a tremendous amount of stuff on-screen at the same time. As bad as GTA may look for some compared to the best looking PS2 games, Frame City Killers may look just as bad compared the to best looking next-gen games.
It's all about what the game do. And open games like GTA ask A FREAKIN LOT out of your hardware guys.
People really does need to work in computer programming or videogame production to understand that graphic quality is contextual to what the game do vs the limits of you hardware??? Jeez.
Thanks to Pimbaa and Shogmaster (and prolly some others outta here) for not being stupid.
--- About the game: i don't like the normal mapped hairs - yuk. This could be better i'm sure.
krypt0nian
Banned
Wyzdom said:
Its terrifying that you have to explain this to the wonderful posters that are clueless and lost.
GitarooMan
Member
shuri said:
Yeah, I understand the different genres, and if you actually read what I'm saying, I think FCK still looks better. Jeez, I think half the time people don't even bother reading what people say
KingJ2002
Member
raYne said:
Exactly... that is what im doing. Why? because to me... no matter what a developer does technically.
The end result... what my eyes see... is what determines if a game looks good or not.
but in this case... it was more wishful thinking than anything on my part. I'm no fool... I understand why games like GTA look the way they do and still get a somewhat high score in the graphics department.... no matter how ugly the game is to the naked eye.
I thought with this new technology... which is leaps and bounds better than the old tech. They will be able to push more detailed characters on the screen, have more detailed environments, and give a near CG quality look.
I guess not... well guys I learned something here... I learned to aim low when it comes to graphics for these launch titles... aim so low that you can only be impressed. Then after that bar has been set... judge future games from there.
To understand if there was a leap, you have to compare GTA screenshots with Frame City Killer screenshots then see if there's a "generation leap".
Personally i think the generation leap is bigger than GT4 compared to PGR3, Perfect Dark vs Doom3, or again Soul Caliber 3 vs Dead or Alive 4...
Personally i think the generation leap is bigger than GT4 compared to PGR3, Perfect Dark vs Doom3, or again Soul Caliber 3 vs Dead or Alive 4...
krypt0nian
Banned
KingJ2002 said:
fixed.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Wyzdom said:
Facial models will tell you that alone. I don't know what the hell people are looking for. I'm in the middle of an argument with others about this very subject. I seriously have someone comparing GT4 to PGR3, saying that they look equal, among other asinine things
Well if you understand completely why the hell do you keep doing it? It's not unreasonable to have high expectations. The problem is that you're expecting moon landings when only a cross ocean flight is possible.KingJ2002 said:
Exactly... that is what im doing. Why? because to me... no matter what a developer does technically.
The end result... what my eyes see... is what determines if a game looks good or not.
but in this case... it was more wishful thinking than anything on my part. I'm no fool... I understand why games like GTA look the way they do and still get a somewhat high score in the graphics department.... no matter how ugly the game is to the naked eye.
I thought with this new technology... which is leaps and bounds better than the old tech. They will be able to push more detailed characters on the screen, have more detailed environments, and give a near CG quality look.
I guess not... well guys I learned something here... I learned to aim low when it comes to graphics for these launch titles... aim so low that you can only be impressed. Then after that bar has been set... judge future games from there.
There's no way you're going to get CG quality graphics in a free roaming game with a fully populated city and this has nothing to do with it being a launch title.
No one in their right mind can deny that this game isn't looking better than it was before, but it still isn't looking great. Sure it's better than current gen, but hell, it should be. I don't think a game of this magnitude is a wise choice for a launch title, and FCK's mediocrity is a perfect example of why. Sorta the same reason you don't see many RPG's at launch.
Oh and this screen...
...is prerendered FMV, there is absolutely no question. The difference in picture clarity, texture detail and lighting complexity from EVERY single other screen should be enough to confirm this blatant fact as far as I'm concerned.
Oh and this screen...
...is prerendered FMV, there is absolutely no question. The difference in picture clarity, texture detail and lighting complexity from EVERY single other screen should be enough to confirm this blatant fact as far as I'm concerned.
krypt0nian
Banned
Heian-kyo said:No one in their right mind can deny that this game isn't looking better than it was before, but it still isn't looking great. Sure it's better than current gen, but hell, it should be. I don't think a game of this magnitude is a wise choice for a launch title, and FCK's mediocrity is a perfect example of why. Sorta the same reason you don't see many RPG's at launch.
Oh and this screen...
...is prerendered FMV, there is absolutely no question. The difference in picture clarity, texture detail and lighting complexity from EVERY single other screen should be enough to confirm this blatant fact as far as I'm concerned.
I have no idea what you're talking about.
Teknopathetic
Member
Heian-Kyo: I'm not really defending the game or anything, but if that screen's from the trailer I think it's from, that's really pisspoor FMV. What with characters clipping each other and what not.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Yeah, look at all those people on screen at once... oh wait shouldn't they call this Ghost City Killer. :lol
krypt0nian
Banned
Dav2k said:
Yeak, look at all those people on screen at once... oh wait shouldn't they call this Ghost City Killer. :lol
Watch the trailer and then you should post again. That's as bad as that mook yesterday saying Oblivion only had one monster because that's all he saw in the one screen shot.
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Heian-kyo said:No one in their right mind can deny that this game isn't looking better than it was before, but it still isn't looking great. Sure it's better than current gen, but hell, it should be. I don't think a game of this magnitude is a wise choice for a launch title, and FCK's mediocrity is a perfect example of why. Sorta the same reason you don't see many RPG's at launch.
Oh and this screen...
...is prerendered FMV, there is absolutely no question. The difference in picture clarity, texture detail and lighting complexity from EVERY single other screen should be enough to confirm this blatant fact as far as I'm concerned.
That is a real time shot. Time to bust your bubble.
Look at the plastic hair. I would hope that if they made FMV for this, that same trait wouldn't show up in FMV. The wall textures are the same, the road looks the same. It's in game, deal with it. You could say in game engine streaming this with nothing else going on, then you would have an argument. If that was FMV, the company that made it should be unemployed
GitarooMan
Member
Outside of the graphics, I'm curious if anyone has seen any hands-on previews of the game? Does anyone know how it plays outside of "GTA clone."?
Katana_Strikes
Member
krypt0nian said:
I've seen it, I commented on it. The bits where you saw all those people was FMV. NOT in game.
Tell me why all these screens we see of in game are not full of people?
krypt0nian
Banned
Dav2k said:
They are in game. Unless FMV suddenly has massive clipping.
Katana_Strikes
Member
Well there is a big difference between that screen full of people and all the others.
Teknopathetic
Member
So all those other real-time in-game movies with people filling the streets were FMV too?
Yeah lets ignore all the pics and especially the gameplay movies which showed the amount of people on screen and make some dumb-ass comment!Dav2k said:
Yeah, look at all those people on screen at once... oh wait shouldn't they call this Ghost City Killer. :lol
Heian-kyo, as usual, you don't have a clue what you're talking about.
krypt0nian
Banned
And the shootout with the 12 or so armed guards with boxes/walls being shot up?
With plastic hair?
FMV?
No.
With plastic hair?
FMV?
No.
Katana_Strikes
Member
raYne said:
Find me a proper in game screen with all the HUD etc on with loads of people on screen like that market one.
I'm still waiting for that money shot to come from this one.