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[Syriel]

There are always complaints in streaming threads about Europe getting worse options than other regions. Turns out the answer for at least one country is quite simply because they want it that way.

This little tidbit was included in a story on the Cannes controversy around Netflix submitting films for consideration. It seems that the French contingent wants Netflix produced films banned from Cannes because Netflix debuts them on Netflix rather than in cinemas.

If Netflix did the latter, it would be banned from streaming its own films for three years

Netflix, which streams films and television shows to subscribers, has two of the hottest movies in contention for the Palme d'Or - its first time in competition at the festival that France boasts is the greatest in the world.

But, in a country where movies shown in cinemas cannot be streamed for three years, Netflix refused to arrange distribution across France - meaning "Okja", starring Tilda Swinton and Jake Gyllenhaal, and "The Meyerowitz Stories", with Ben Stiller and Dustin Hoffman, will not be seen on the big screen after their Cannes premiere.

The outcry from French cinemas was such that there were rumors the two movies would be excluded at the last minute.

Source:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-filmfestival-cannes-festival-director-idUSKCN18C261

 

[Skellig Gra]

What a strange law. I wonder what their reasoning could be.

 

[cwmartin]

Film and Cinema has a rich history and storied place in French culture. So the preservation angle is where the law comes from.

Time to let your culture adapt, frankly.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

What a strange law. I wonder what their reasoning could be.

propping up theatres

 

[Stinkles]

What a strange law. I wonder what their reasoning could be.

France has a lot of culture protectionist laws. Language obviously, but also the arts:

The French Cultural Exception[edit]
France has been especially notable in pursuing the policy of cultural exception and its stance has sometimes attracted criticism. It was pursued by André Malraux in the post-second world war period when he was French minister of culture. In each branch of culture there is an automatic subsidy system for creative works. One example of these measures is the National Center of Cinematography and the moving image, which taxes cinema ticket sales and uses those funds to help the production or distribution of French cinema. Another example of protectionist measures is the audiovisual law (Loi sur l'audiovisuel) which specified for instance that "radio has to broadcast 40% French songs and, within this quota, 20% new talents." [8]
The effects of this policy in France is suggested by the fact that between 2005 and 2011, between 45% and 55% of its film products were American imports, compared to 60 to 90% American imports in other European film markets.[9][10][11]

Part of the culture, I guess.

 

[IsntChrisL]

What a strange law. I wonder what their reasoning could be.

Because France likes to be difficult about stupid shit sometimes (a lot of times).

 

[Skellig Gra]

France has a lot of culture protectionist laws. Language obviously, but also the arts:




Part of the culture, I guess.

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

 

[IsntChrisL]

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

American films make the real money, most likely.

 

[Wag]

What a strange law. I wonder what their reasoning could be.

Not enough Jerry Lewis movies on Netflix.

 

[Snowybreak]

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

It's possible theatre corporations fund Cannes, meaning they'd have an adverse reaction to Netflix having representation there, due to the on-demand factor Netflix has. This does not mean they aren't dicks though, it sounds like they're being petty.

 

[Moosichu]

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

The reason is that theaters lobbied for the law, the excuse is all the other protectionist stuff France does.

 

[Stinkles]

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

I personally think it's backward, restrictive and a form of censorship and protectionism, and I don't like it one bit - but "they" meaning theater lobbies, the government and arts leadership think it's just spiffy. I bet most French gafers think it's dumb.

 

[Khaz]

Distribution delays and restrictions are there to protect the traditional channels (cinema, DVD, TV, etc). While it works when the films are produced by a third party, there is an obvious oversight when the producing company is also a streaming company, which can't deliver their product through their own channels.

I'd say it's up to Netflix France to lobby its government to get an amendment so that they can actually show their product.

 

[Mass_Pincup]

I know they have those cultural protection laws but I don't see how allowing it on French Netflix dilutes anything. If a French film is released in theaters, how does it dilute anything if it can also be viewed online by the French people.

It's to protect the theater market.

Our laws are pretty strict regarding exploitation of movies.

-4 months after the theatrical release the movie will be available on Blu-ray and online rental.

-10 to 12 months after the theatrical release depending on contract, the movie will be available exclusively on one paid tv channel (think HBO, Starz, Showtime)

-22 to 24 months after the theatrical release depending on contract the movie will be available a second time exclusively to a paid tv channel

-Then after 36 months it'll be available on Netflix and the likes.

There's also contract based on free tv channels coproducing movie which allow they to release the movie 22 months after the theatrical release.

This schedule ensure that there's no competition between any of those entities. It's a real pain when subscribed to Netflix here but I understand why it exists.

 

[Mimosa97]

This law isn't about protecting our culture. It's a result of the lobbying of theater owners. And yeah it needs to change.

Also i agree that some of our protectionist laws are too extreme but when you look at the rampant americanization of our culture you start thinking that they might not be too bad after all.

 

[Stinkles]

It's to protect the theater market.

Our laws are pretty strict regarding exploitation of movies.

-4 months after the theatrical release the movie will be available on Blu-ray and online rental.

-10 to 12 months after the theatrical release depending on contract, the movie will be available exclusively on one paid tv channel (think HBO, Starz, Showtime)

-22 to 24 months after the theatrical release depending on contract the movie will be available a second time exclusively to a paid tv channel

-Then after 36 months it'll be available on Netflix and the likes.

There's also contract based on free tv channels coproducing movie which allow they to release the movie 22 months after the theatrical release.

This schedule ensure that there's no competition between any of those entities. It's a real pain when subscribed to Netflix here but I understand why it exists.

That kind of law means financial catastrophe for movies that didn't perform well at theaters but had a shot on rental markets. The longer the gap in release the less people care. I'd put King Arthur in that vein. Not good enough to go watch at a theater, but maybe worth a rental, till you completely forget about it - they can't even piggy back on their own marketing.

This law isn't about protecting our culture. It's a result of the lobbying of theater owners. And yeah it needs to change.

Also i agree that some of our protectionist laws are too extreme but when you look at the rampant americanization of our culture you start thinking that they might not be too bad after all.

I don't think anyone genuinely believed anything else, but that's how the government makes it more palatable to the public. All the way down to the semantics of the law.

 

[Alx]

Distribution delays and restrictions are there to protect the traditional channels (cinema, DVD, TV, etc). While it works when the films are produced by a third party, there is an obvious oversight when the producing company is also a streaming company, which can't deliver their product through their own channels.

I'd say it's up to Netflix France to lobby its government to get an amendment so that they can actually show their product.

Well they can (and do) stream them, it's just that they can't show them in theaters (and they don't want to since it's an incentive for people to subscribe to their service).
The only issue is about the whole "no theater = no Cannes" positioning, which is a bit pointless in my opinion. But it depends if you consider Cannes as an event about movies or about movie distribution.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

This whole controversy is completely idiotic.
More options are always a good thing. I actually happen to live in Cannes and while I'll always prefer watching films in a movie theater, they are all so profoundly shitty around here that it's becoming impossible to tolerate. Very few foreign films available with subtitles, tiny and terrible screens, higher and higher prices, 3D tax, etc.

Yeah, I'd rather subscribe to Netflix, thank you very much.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Does France give out a whole lot of subsidies for their own movie production, or have special tax cuts for it? Might be to prevent abuse there, since those would be intended for its own industry and local economy and not to have American companies get the money afterwards.

 

[Elandyll]

Because France likes to be difficult about stupid shit sometimes (a lot of times).

No.
It's because for decades there's bee a fundamental schism between Hollywood and Europe (France in particular) about the way films should be treated.
For Hollywood Films are a product, and for Europe (most of all France) Films are art.

I wrote an essay about this in school back in 1990.

The conflict with Netflix is the result of this opposition.

Now granted 3 years for streaming with sub is too long (2 years should be plenty enough), but there is a good (and imo justified) reason behind the move.

Currently the imposed delais seem to be:

4 months for DVD/ BR/ Digital
12 months for Movie Channel that paid for 1st rights
22 months for ota generic channel -if- co produced movie
24 months for other Movie channels
30 months for any other tv channel
36 months for streaming with sub
48 months for free streaming with commercials

Thebgoal is to protect all the actors in the chain, particularly the smaller ones who produce more "niche" content that depends on comfortable release windows and state subventions.

 

[Nerdkiller]

In OKJA/Netflix related news...

https://twitter.com/charlielyne/status/865473747897024514

Heaven: after weeks of moaning about Netflix's assault on le septième art, Cannes just screened OKJA in the wrong aspect ratio.

 

[LFMartins86]

The crowd booed the Netflix logo yesterday on the screening of Okja. It's kind of ridiculous how the "defenders" of the art of movie making are so against Netflix when the directors who worked with them have nothing but praise for Netflix's attitude towards them and for trusting their visions without meddling in the shooting and editing of the movies.

 

[Charamiwa]

The crowd booed the Netflix logo yesterday on the screening of Okja. It's kind of ridiculous how the "defenders" of the art of movie making are so against Netflix when the directors who worked with them have nothing but praise for Netflix's attitude towards them and for trusting their visions without meddling in the shooting and editing of the movies.

A few people booed the logo. The "riots" started when the film wasn't projected properly. It'll make the news, but that doesn't mean the entire public of Cannes rallied against Netfilx.

 

[Stinkles]

Projectionists are either completely ignored or loudly decried with no in between. Great projectionists are almost invisible.

 

[Elandyll]

Almodovar's pov:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39954563

"All this doesn't mean I'm not open, or don't celebrate the new technology and the possibilities they offer to us.
But while I'm alive, I will be fighting for the one thing the new generation is not aware of - the capacity of hypnosis of a large screen for a viewer."
The Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown director said he could not conceive the Palme d'Or - or any other prize - "being given to a film and then not being able to see the film on a big screen".

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

For Hollywood Films are a product, and for Europe (most of all France) Films are art.

lol

 

[Mimosa97]

lol

Care to elaborate ?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Almodovar's pov:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39954563

"Fuck what the best game is, I couldn't conceive giving GOTY to a Switch game that can be played portably."

Yeah, that sounds just as stupid.

 

[sans_pants]

france is so up their own ass about movies

 

[Elandyll]

lol

That's news to you?

That's how each of the two industries (which doesn't encompass 100% of the production for their respective regions btw) see themselves.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Bunch of pretentious garbage people. I'm going to become rich and pay off a projectionist to show films at Cannes tilted by 3 degrees.

 

[antibolo]

I don't blame them, incorrect aspect ratio is a crime against humanity that should be punishable by death.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

Care to elaborate ?

Only free art is not a product.

 

[Syriel]

Projectionists are either completely ignored or loudly decried with no in between. Great projectionists are almost invisible.

This is one projectionist that just made a worldwide name for him/herself.

Almodovar's pov:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39954563

Which is a silly quote because Netflix isn't refusing to allow its films to be seen on the big screen.

It is refusing to give up the ability to show the films it financed to its subscribers.

If France didn't have the streaming ban, the Netflix films would be offered to theaters. Almodovar should be directing his ire towards the law.

 

[Elandyll]

Only free art is not a product.

Which is a simplistic and ultimately ussless view of the conflict.

It's about two very different approaches, one placing the market at the center of things (is there demand for this movie, will it make oogles of money) vs there is a creator who has an idea for a movie, let's find him funding between state and private, and who cares if people want to see it.

Again, this does not encompass 100% of films for either, there obviously are indie films in the US and big crowd pleasers made in Europe too, but overall, yes, it's the schism, and imo there's room for both approaches, but one (the Euro/ France one) would not survive without subs.
I prefer a world with the weirdo Euro art movies (or simply niche) that once in a while will have amazing stuff rather than one without.

If France didn't have the streaming ban, the Netflix films would be offered to theaters. Almodovar should be directing his ire towards the law.

Or Netflix could work within the law, release in theaters and obtain a "derogation" to release early on Netflix (4 to 6 months window I imagine, which is the video release). But talks broke down as obviously Netflix doesn't give a shit about releasing in theaters, and I understand why. But at the same time there is an early reaction to what is perceived as an attack on an entire industry and model.

 

[Toothless]

I'll admit I don't know French film distribution but this attitude for America would make sense to me. Netflix films should be viewed as television movies regardless of the talent behind them unless they are indeed given a theatrical release (of any kind, even limited).

Amazon is getting their indie cred because they put their stuff in theaters before putting them on their streaming service. It's only hubris that prevents Netflix from doing the same (since Amazon has won two Oscars before Netflix got even nominated for anything that isn't a Documentary).

Basically I'm fine with anyone calling Netflix out for making their movies barely apply to the traditional definition of cinema since Amazon at least understands the importance of some theatrical distribution. Then again I'm talking solely American distribution so maybe this is all silly for Cannes.

 

[The Illiterati]

I'll admit I don't know French film distribution but this attitude for America would make sense to me. Netflix films should be viewed as television movies regardless of the talent behind them unless they are indeed given a theatrical release (of any kind, even limited).

Amazon is getting their indie cred because they put their stuff in theaters before putting them on their streaming service. It's only hubris that prevents Netflix from doing the same (since Amazon has won two Oscars before Netflix got even nominated for anything that isn't a Documentary).

Basically I'm fine with anyone calling Netflix out for making their movies barely apply to the traditional definition of cinema since Amazon at least understands the importance of some theatrical distribution. Then again I'm talking solely American distribution so maybe this is all silly for Cannes.

Netflix IS releasing it's films theatrically, just not in France, due to their 3 year rule.

 

[Wiped89]

Film and Cinema has a rich history and storied place in French culture. So the preservation angle is where the law comes from.

Time to let your culture adapt, frankly.

I agreed with all this until the last line.

So every country should just roll over for the mighty Netflix gods and rip up 100 years of tradition?

Nice

 

[OmegaFax]

Thread: France bans new Adam Sandler movies from coming anywhere near Cannes.

*Applauds*

 

[richiek]

Almodovar's pov:

http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-39954563

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0

 

[pa22word]

I agreed with all this until the last line.

So every country should just roll over for the mighty Netflix gods and rip up 100 years of tradition?

Nice

Much like with the amazon thread where amazon takes a hit in order to ship things at a low rate despite French protectionist bullshit just because they can, if France wouldn't have stalled their own economic and cultural progress with stupid protectionist laws they wouldn't have mighty netflix knocking on the door and instead might have a native competitor that could compete with netflix locally instead.

This problem was created by backwards laws written to prop up backwards markets that were left to stagnate vs compete in the market due to the protection. That's why netflix and Amazon can come in and roll over French competitors, not American economic might or whatever bloody shirt bullshit your local politicians feed you in order to keep getting lobbying money from the markets they're protecting.

 

[Toothless]

Netflix IS releasing it's films theatrically, just not in France, due to their 3 year rule.

No they're not. The only ones they've done that for are Beasts of No Nation and soon to be Okja. Besides that, everything else goes straight to Netflix and (predictably) Beasts bombed because they put it in theaters the exact same day it was on Netflix. If they want to be on theater and film buffs' good sides, they should just take Amazon's strategy and run with it (theatrical release with it being on streaming three months or less after that).

 

[| Praxis |]

I will just repeat what I said in the Okja thread.

I for one welcome our new digital future.

Anything to avoid gimmicks like 3D, ridiculous ticket prices and the general public.

 

[zou]

I agreed with all this until the last line.

So every country should just roll over for the mighty Netflix gods and rip up 100 years of tradition?

Nice

No, I agree. It makes more sense that Netflix isn't allowed to stream their own movie for 3 years.

 

[Syriel]

No they're not. The only ones they've done that for are Beasts of No Nation and soon to be Okja. Besides that, everything else goes straight to Netflix and (predictably) Beasts bombed because they put it in theaters the exact same day it was on Netflix. If they want to be on theater and film buffs' good sides, they should just take Amazon's strategy and run with it (theatrical release with it being on streaming three months or less after that).

Netflix makes its films available for theaters that want them.

Most theaters don't want them though, because Netflix does day-and-date releases, which means that the film will be in theaters and on Netflix at the same time.

 

[sans_pants]

No they're not. The only ones they've done that for are Beasts of No Nation and soon to be Okja. Besides that, everything else goes straight to Netflix and (predictably) Beasts bombed because they put it in theaters the exact same day it was on Netflix. If they want to be on theater and film buffs' good sides, they should just take Amazon's strategy and run with it (theatrical release with it being on streaming three months or less after that).

keep in mind that amazon is simply a company designed to destroy other companies no matter how much money they lose in the process. to say "just copy amazon" is not viable in most situations

 

[Wiped89]

No, I agree. It makes more sense that Netflix isn't allowed to stream their own movie for 3 years.

But they can stream their own movies. Right away. They just can't stream them for three years if they release them in cinemas.

 

[gutter_trash]

bureacracy in many European countries is the main thing that slows many of them back on moving forward.

French people who moved to Canada who work with me told me that bureaucracy back home was YUGE from buying a home, buying a car or just taking care of paperwork

 

[Turbo Killer]

Because France likes to be difficult about stupid shit sometimes (a lot of times).

Best explanation imo.

 

[LFMartins86]

No they're not. The only ones they've done that for are Beasts of No Nation and soon to be Okja. Besides that, everything else goes straight to Netflix and (predictably) Beasts bombed because they put it in theaters the exact same day it was on Netflix. If they want to be on theater and film buffs' good sides, they should just take Amazon's strategy and run with it (theatrical release with it being on streaming three months or less after that).

Amazon's strategy isn't for the good of the movie. They make money from the Box Office, then from iTunes and the other digital video stores, then from the DVD/Blu Ray and only after all that will the streaming service get the movie.
Beasts didn't bombed because they never expect to make many money from the theatrical release.
Netflix have a subscription based service and their priority is their clients, that's why their Original movies on release on theaters in the same day of home release or later and that's why their shows only are released on DVD/Blu Ray way later.
Amazon's streaming service is an afterthought, not their priority.