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Frank Miller: I am ready for my fatwa.

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Ripclawe

Banned
Interesting read and some news on upcoming projects.

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/movies/la-ca-miller29apr29,0,6632231,print.story

Revenge of the Dark Knight
Hard-edged comics guru Frank Miller is hot in Hollywood. Now for the graphic details.
By Geoff Boucher
Times Staff Writer

April 29, 2007

FRANK MILLER, his pale hands wrapped around a cane and the smoke from his cigarette swirling beneath the brim of his Homburg, sat at the poolside bar at the W Hotel in Westwood and watched the swimsuits saunter by. "I'm married to New York," he said between sips of a fizzy Red Bull cocktail. "But there's something to be said about Los Angeles too."

Miller arrived at the W a month and a half ago with a one-week reservation, but the L.A. fling is still going and he's still living out of a suitcase filled with black clothes. The reason is that Miller, the most important comic book artist of the last 25 years, is enjoying his moment in the Hollywood sun. There was, of course, the record-breaking March box office of "300," a lovingly faithful adaptation of Miller's bloody 1998 graphic novel, but there's also the two sequels to "Sin City" now in the pipeline and the Batman project now being filmed in London that borrows its title from Miller's 1986 masterpiece, "The Dark Knight Returns." "They finally got the title right," Miller said with a pretend sneer. "I was wondering when that would happen."

Miller fancies himself a curmudgeon, and on talk shows he's proven to be a firebrand with his political views challenging modern-day Islam. But it's hard to stay grumpy when everything is going your way. Like most stars of the comic-book community (where he is the rare artist who became equally celebrated as a writer), he had become accustomed to be treated like a valet by Hollywood — Hey, kid, thanks for the keys and the vehicle, here's a couple of bucks — and then forced to watch the studios wreck everything on screen.

The 1990s Batman movies, for instance, would not have happened without Miller's work, but they often ignored or trampled his contributions to the character. On two "RoboCop" films, meanwhile, Miller was hired as a screenwriter, but the efforts fell flat. Then Elektra, a beloved character he created, tanked badly on the screen in the hands of others.

Now there's a sweet satisfaction in the fact that the new Hollywood approach is to hire fan-boy directors and show fawning respect for the source material. "Sin City's" Robert Rodriguez even insisted on sharing director credits with Miller on those films (a maverick stand that cost Rodriguez his membership in the Directors Guild), and that led directly to a somewhat shocking development: Miller has now been tapped to write and direct his own film based on Will Eisner's classic noir hero "The Spirit."

One of the producers, Michael Uslan, also the producer of "Constantine" and executive producer of "Batman Begins," said the filming will start this year and that there already is intense interest from distributors given the splashy success of "300," which grossed $70 million in just its first weekend. Uslan was an executive producer on more than half a dozen superhero movies, including the Tim Burton "Batman" films, and he said Miller's relative newcomer role to Hollywood is not a problem.

"Honestly, to me, there's nobody else that could do this film. I saw him at Will Eisner's memorial service last year and I told him that I'd been turning comic books into movies for years, but that with 'Sin City' he's doing something better: He was making movies into comic books. I told him he had to make 'The Spirit.' He said there was no way he could do it. Then after three minutes he said, 'There's no way I can let anybody else do it.' "

Asked about the change of heart in town, Miller smiled like the Catwoman who ate the canary. "It's gone from being an abusive relationship to a torrid affair. And it is very satisfying. I think I have everybody fooled now."

Miller, who is 50, was given a hero's welcome at the premiere of "300" in early March and arrived at the glitzy after-party to find movie stars eager to shake his hand. He lingered in town to talk to actors (including one notable "Sin City" star) about key roles in "The Spirit" and found that the hotel bar was a great place to write the screenplay.

He's been soaking in the L.A. scene and taking meetings, among them a giddy visit to the office of Richard Donner, director of the 1978 "Superman" as well as the "Lethal Weapon" films, where Miller tried to soak in some lessons about directing. Donner, though, came from a moviemaking era when Hollywood took an amused and parental approach to comics fare, and while Miller reveres the veteran filmmaker, he also said he will be making movies that are as wild and fire-breathing as the modern graphic novel.

He made his name with grisly and highly sophisticated revenge fantasies drawn in an alternately brash and shadowy style that seems like "Escape From New York" as reimagined by Akira Kurosawa. He prides himself on approaching his easel with a tough-guy swagger. "I am going to do things my way. It's the only way I know how, and it's how I got here. They finally realized that my vision is the way to do it. And I couldn't agree more."

Speaking out

MUCH has been made of Miller's politics in the wake of "300." The deliriously violent and stylized sword film is based on a Spartan battle in 480 B.C., and although Miller wrote and drew the story for Dark Horse comics a decade ago, in film form it was received by many as a grotesque parody of the ancient Persians and a fetish piece for a war on Islam. Miller scoffs at those notions. "I think it's ridiculous that we set aside certain groups and say that we can't risk offending their ancestors. Please. I'd like to say, as an American, I was deeply offended by 'The Last of the Mohicans.' "

Still, Miller gets stirred up about any criticism of the war in Iraq or the hunt for terrorists, which he views as the front in a war between the civilized Western world and bloodthirsty Islamic fundamentalists.

"What people are not dealing with is the fact that we're going up against a culture that finds it acceptable to do things that the rest of the world left behind with the barbarians in the 6th century," Miller said. "I'm a little tired of people worrying about being polite. We are fighting in the face of fascists."

The director of "300," Zack Snyder, chuckled about the portrayal of Miller as a conservative on the attack or a "proto-fascist" as one pundit called him. "I don't think he really has politics, he just sees the world in moral terms. He's a guy who says what he thinks and has a sense of right and wrong. He talks tough and, after Sept. 11, I think he's mad." Snyder said Miller is a throwback and that he approaches his art with a bar-fight temperament, like a Sam Peckinpah. "His political view is: Don't mess with me."

Miller was born in Maryland and raised in Vermont but, mesmerized by comics and films, he was eager to get to New York — "The New York I saw on 'Kojak,' that's what I wanted to draw" — where he could get the pavement and excitement under his feet. He got to New York by 21, and within three years he was a fan favorite with a style that was jolting. It was dark and gritty, with bold brushwork and empty spaces that defied the marketplace conventions of the time, in which the bright, clean intricacies of John Byrne and George Pérez were the perceived ideal.

That era too belonged to superhero teams with cosmic adventures and bulging, spandex-clad anatomies that defied physics, but Miller was writing and drawing violent operettas for the mean streets with mere mortals such as Daredevil and Batman, who have no powers. The inner spirit was more Bernard Goetz than George Lucas.

"The main reason was I didn't draw good spaceships," he said with a shrug. "I drew tough guys in trench coats, and I liked using black and shadows." The mid-1980s brought the shift of comics toward more mature ambitions and Miller (along too with Alan Moore, writer of "The Watchman") was at the center of the renaissance. His defining characters — Daredevil, Elektra, the aging Batman of "Dark Knight," the disgraced samurai of "Ronin" — were solitary, haunted, honor-bound and extremely efficient at hurting other people. Reading Miller, Mickey Spillane and Clint Eastwood sprang to mind, especially when one Daredevil cover was an overt homage to "Dirty Harry."

Miller also became an outspoken champion of artist's rights in the industry, and he engaged in serious work to celebrate the legacy of past stars, among them, Eisner, who died in 2005 at 87 and was the creator of "The Spirit," a work often hailed as the "Citizen Kane" of comics. The artists had a close friendship, and Miller seems more nervous about his film living up to the expectations of his late mentor than he does about any pressures from producers or the public.

"There's quite a standard there, and I feel a tremendous responsibility and honor doing it," Miller said. He chewed on the thought some more. "It is a lot of pressure, though, yes."

A dish best served cold

MILLER'S characters are always on the hunt for redemption or, more often, revenge with extreme prejudice. There's a case to be made that Miller is coming to Hollywood with a similar chip on his shoulder. There's also a less-obvious argument to be made that he came here looking for a fresh audience. For a guy that could do no wrong in the comics world, Miller has been a little shaky with the old fans in recent years.

In 2002, he finally relented to massive appetite for a sequel to "The Dark Knight Returns" and while the sales were huge, most reviews ranged from disappointment to blistering attack. "A total mess of a book," one critic moaned. To many, the plot, the exaggerated art and the computer color effects made for a scattered parody of the bracing original. Others, though, saw a punk-rock statement; the Comics Journal, for instance, dubbed it "gloriously trashy."

Still, Miller is clearly sensitive about the sniping. "It was caricature," he said, "and if you don't get it, I can't help that." He also wrote a "Batman & Robin" series that was similarly criticized as stilted, indulgent and too winking (not to mention misogynistic — but that label has been applied to a significant portion of his work, especially the gleefully prurient "Sin City" books and film).

His humor and hard-boiled nature have combined with odd results sometimes. At a comic book convention in 2006, he announced that he was working on a book about Al Qaeda attacking Gotham City that would be titled "Holy Terror, Batman!" People glanced around to see if he was joking. He wasn't.

The book is still not out, and in the industry there is the general sense that the project has stalled a bit. At the W, though, Miller said about 120 pages of his Batman tale have been drawn and inked and he's starting in on the "final 50 or so." He said he plans to finish it even though he senses squeamishness by executives at DC Comics and its parent, Warner Bros. Entertainment, in sending a franchise character on a blood-quest after terrorists. The topic is clearly an uncomfortable one for him, and he gave the impression that the title, the distribution deal and the nature of the project are in flux.

Still, the plot is decidedly straightforward: "Our hero's key quote is, 'Those clowns don't know what terror is,' " Miller said. "Then he sets out to get the guys."

With the hero as terrorism avenger, Miller is pointing to the days of comics in the 1940s, when Superman, Captain America and the Human Torch were drawn taking punches at Hitler or Hirohito.

"These terrorists are worse than any villain I can come up with, and I think it's ridiculous that people in entertainment are not showing what we are up against here…. This is pure propaganda, a throwback, there's no bones about it."

Miller also said he relishes a backlash. "I'm ready," he said, "for my fatwa."

The man who says that is not physically imposing. Miller looks older than his age due to an air of fragility — the cane, the fatigue in his face, his unsteady step. He took a nasty fall in New York this year — "I slipped on black ice," he groaned — and recovering from the broken hip has been a miserable experience.

Miller will need all his supporters and his strength to pull off the new role as solo director of a major Hollywood film. He surely learned a lot at the side of "Sin City's" Rodriguez, but the new job requires not just artistic antennae but also an efficient dictator sensibility.

"He can do it, absolutely," said "300's" Snyder, "because he has the respect instantly of the people around him because of his vision. I saw on the set of '300,' he won people over because he knows what he wants, and what he wants is great. He's in this unique position now where he is a brand name. Like Quentin [Tarantino], there's this perception that his take on pop culture is so singular and right that he gets to break the rules."

Miller got famous for fight scenes that played like ballet across comic book pages bounded by rooftop water towers and dingy alleyways of Hell's Kitchen in New York. Now he is far from his New York world and getting further from comics, where he has been a beloved figure; if this Hollywood player's romance is a passing affair, can he comfortably go back to just the small pages? "That's the hardest question. I love that community and love the freedom I have had there and the success there and appreciation. But I'm on this new adventure right now."
 
He's a terrific artist. I think his views on the Iraq War are misguided but then you're not going to agree with everyone on everything.
 

FightyF

Banned
I'm ready for my 'religious verdict'?

It just goes to show that he doesn't know much about the subject that he plans to write about, and the danger is that if he wants to make it a propaganda piece, it will drift into the realm of bigotry and perhaps incitement to hate.

For a guy who thinks that Iraq started the recent war...I wouldn't be surprised if that was the end result.
 

effzee

Member
Fight for Freeform said:
I'm ready for my 'religious verdict'?

It just goes to show that he doesn't know much about the subject that he plans to write about, and the danger is that if he wants to make it a propaganda piece, it will drift into the realm of bigotry and perhaps incitement to hate.

For a guy who thinks that Iraq started the recent war...I wouldn't be surprised if that was the end result.

to me it comes off as him wanting to draw that attention. he knows Muslims are stupid enough to react to his comic, whatever it might have in it, and once they do miller can go around claiming "see i was right these muslims are barbarians!".
 
It's so sad to see smart guys like Dennis Miller and Frank Miller become so blinded by hate and anger that they buy the lies about the Iraq war.

Al Qaeda having operated in 45 countries and instead we run off on a PNAC goose chase elsewhere in a country where Bush thought he could earn daddy's true love.

Mad about 9/11? You bet, I am too. Iraq? Huh?
 

border

Member
"These terrorists are worse than any villain I can come up with, and I think it's ridiculous that people in entertainment are not showing what we are up against here"
Yeah, it's not like there's a highly-rated, hourlong weekly drama on Fox that is also anti-terrorism propaganda.

Batman vs. Al-Quaida just sounds a little retarded. In 50 years it will look as stupid as Superman beating up the Viet Cong.

I'm ready for my 'religious verdict'?
You're just citing the literal translation with no context just to make him look clueless. It's pretty clear he knows what he's talking about, though. Pretty arrogant to think Islamic leaders will give a shit about his stupid Batman comic though.
 
border said:
Batman vs. Al-Quaida just sounds a little retarded. In 50 years it will look as stupid as Superman beating up the Viet Cong.
Oh, it'll probably look that stupid in much less than 50 years.
 
*yawn* Frank Miller has always and always will be a complete ass. This is nothing more than a stunt to get the attention he can't live without.

The comic itself will surely be just as shitty as everything else he has ever done on his own.
 

border

Member
Why not just have Batman beat up Mohammad, if he wants to incense the Islamic community? At least that would be funny, in a stupid sort of way.

I haven't read comics in years -- did 9/11 happen in the DC or Marvel universes?
 

Matt_C

Member
border said:
Yeah, it's not like there's a highly-rated, hourlong weekly drama on Fox that is also anti-terrorism propaganda.

Batman vs. Al-Quaida just sounds a little retarded. In 50 years it will look as stupid as Superman beating up the Viet Cong.


DC already has an established terror network, it is called "The League of Shadows". A modern interpretation of The League of Shadows would be like the ELF having the deep pockets of Al Qaeda's financiers and the arms of Hezbollah.
Heck, if Ra's Al Ghul wasn't dead, I am sure he would of had a Doctor Doom meets Bin-Ladinesque statemanship in some developing nation

Still waiting for a Bendis/Ultimate Marvel meets Christopher Nolan inspired DC Universe. I noticed a small bit of it in the 52 miniseries. Heck, I wouldn't mind some Civil War/Initiative inspired writing in modern DC. I guess the Marvelfanboy side of me is talking out of my ass again.
 

castle007

Banned
border said:
Why not just have Batman beat up Mohammad, if he wants to incense the Islamic community? At least that would be funny, in a stupid sort of way.

I haven't read comics in years -- did 9/11 happen in the DC or Marvel universes?

:| if only you can get banned for saying that.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Sounds like a fabulous idea!

Cause, you know, those anti-Japan propaganda comics have aged really, really well.
 

Mandark

Small balls, big fun!
Sounds like a fabulous idea!

Cause, you know, those anti-Japan propaganda comics have aged really, really well.





9740000058ef3.jpg
 

Matt_C

Member
border said:
Why not just have Batman beat up Mohammad, if he wants to incense the Islamic community? At least that would be funny, in a stupid sort of way.

I haven't read comics in years -- did 9/11 happen in the DC or Marvel universes?

9/11 did happen in Marvel comics and if you follow Civil War, it would bring a whole new perspective into mainstream comics about the role of superpowered guys wearing tights (thank you Bendis).
 
Mandark said:
Sounds like a fabulous idea!

Cause, you know, those anti-Japan propaganda comics have aged really, really well.
Dude, this is different, all Muslims are evil and this country nay the world needs to put forth a unified front in eradicating these savage sub-humans.

The only good Arab is a dead one.
 

Decado

Member
Sad to hear about his health.

I look forward to his movie projects, but I've never thought him as being a particularly great comic book writer.
 

Yarr

Banned
This quote is just awesome and true on every level.

"Honestly, to me, there's nobody else that could do this film. I saw him at Will Eisner's memorial service last year and I told him that I'd been turning comic books into movies for years, but that with 'Sin City' he's doing something better: He was making movies into comic books. I told him he had to make 'The Spirit.' He said there was no way he could do it. Then after three minutes he said, 'There's no way I can let anybody else do it.' "
 
As far as 300 goes I don't think Miller intended for it to be offensive when he wrote it, or when the film as made. He simply made the Persians in the comic seem like villains which is what many books, movies, whatever do. They want the audience to hate the enemies and feel for the "good guys". But since it's people from the mid-east in 300 people are making a big deal out of it.
 

mollipen

Member
border said:
Batman vs. Al-Quaida just sounds a little retarded. In 50 years it will look as stupid as Superman beating up the Viet Cong.

Except the first suggestion is completely plausible. The second, not so much.
 

FightyF

Banned
border said:
You're just citing the literal translation with no context just to make him look clueless. It's pretty clear he knows what he's talking about, though.

What translation should I use besides the actual, literal translation? Some made up definition?

Do you have any evidence that would support your assertion that he knows what he's talking about?
 
ToyMachine228 said:
As far as 300 goes I don't think Miller intended for it to be offensive when he wrote it, or when the film as made. He simply made the Persians in the comic seem like villains which is what many books, movies, whatever do. They want the audience to hate the enemies and feel for the "good guys". But since it's people from the mid-east in 300 people are making a big deal out of it.

I wasn't offended by the depiction of the Persians, but I still thought the Spartans came off as douche bags. I really didn't care either way if they won or lost.
 

J2 Cool

Member
Miller seems to do that. His Dark Knight Returns Batman was quite an asshole, the Spartans were, the guy did Sin City..
 
shidoshi said:
Except the first suggestion is completely plausible. The second, not so much.

Doesn't superman fight for the American way?




No that I really care so much if Batman is battling terrorists as it will either suck or not based on the material.
 

Deku

Banned
FoF seems to have a thin skin when it comes to anything related Islam that 'may' shed a bad light on the religion. I

The thread title was made provocative to get clicks, if he even bothered reading the article it has very little to do with the backlash of muslim fundies against his work.
 
Deku said:
The thread title was made provocative to get clicks, if he even bothered reading the article it has very little to do with the backlash of muslim fundies against his work.


Meh. Miller's been increasingly vocal on what he is calling his propaganda work and his views on the war on terrorism in general. It's a fair point to bring up questioning some of his work.

That being said for me its not really a huge issue.
 
shidoshi said:
Except the first suggestion is completely plausible. The second, not so much.

They are both horrible ideas though.

Miller has been on the shit wagon since Sin City. Hopefully that won't be his last great work.

All-Star has been absolute drivel IMO.
 
Fight for Freeform said:
I'm ready for my 'religious verdict'?

What doesn't make sense about that sentence to you? To give you some perspective, Salman Rushdie writes Satanic Verses, Khomeini issues a "fatwa", a "religious verdict" and calls for the death of Rushdie.

Now you can argue about the true meaning of the word fatwa and who in the Muslim world has the true authority to issue a fatwa all you want, but Frank Miller obviously understands the contemporary usage of the word.

Fight for Freeform said:
It just goes to show that he doesn't know much about the subject that he plans to write about, and the danger is that if he wants to make it a propaganda piece, it will drift into the realm of bigotry and perhaps incitement to hate.

For a guy who thinks that Iraq started the recent war...I wouldn't be surprised if that was the end result.

I don't think he believes Iraq had anything to do with starting this war. His position is that Iraq has become the frontline in the "war on terror" for lack of a better descriptor. Which, I can't say I disagree with.
 

FightyF

Banned
Deku said:
FoF seems to have a thin skin when it comes to anything related Islam that 'may' shed a bad light on the religion. I

That's true. I think that it's important for Muslims to do this because these sorts of attitudes have a direct impact on our rights, especially the rights of Muslims living in North America.

Secondly, in a situation like this, I see parallels to the portrayal of Jews in Nazi Germany. It's nowhere near as widespread in mainstream media, but in right wing media outlets it's getting there.
 

Remedy

Banned
you guys do realize that Sparta was a fascist state where homosexuality and pedophilia was rife. So where all this "Free Peoples" rhetoric comes from is beyond me, unless the film had an agenda beyond being just entertainment.

Also how can anyone admire the fascist?
 

Chrono

Banned
Fight for Freeform said:
Secondly, in a situation like this, I see parallels to the portrayal of Jews in Nazi Germany. It's nowhere near as widespread in mainstream media, but in right wing media outlets it's getting there.

That's a really, really bad analogy. Jews weren't flying airplanes into buildings and beheading people simply for being non-muslims.

ToyMachine228 said:
As far as 300 goes I don't think Miller intended for it to be offensive when he wrote it, or when the film as made. He simply made the Persians in the comic seem like villains which is what many books, movies, whatever do. They want the audience to hate the enemies and feel for the "good guys". But since it's people from the mid-east in 300 people are making a big deal out of it.

There's also the fact that the persians in 300 didn't look or dress anything like persians.

Remedy said:
you guys do realize that Sparta was a fascist state where homosexuality and pedophilia was rife. So where all this "Free Peoples" rhetoric comes from is beyond me, unless the film had an agenda beyond being just entertainment.

It's just a story about an army fighting off foreign invaders, 'freedom' doesn't necessarily mean modern human rights.
 
Remedy said:
you guys do realize that Sparta was a fascist state where homosexuality and pedophilia was rife. So where all this "Free Peoples" rhetoric comes from is beyond me, unless the film had an agenda beyond being just entertainment.

Also how can anyone admire the fascist?


Did you see their abs?
 

FightyF

Banned
Chrono said:
That's a really, really bad analogy. Jews weren't flying airplanes into buildings and beheading people simply for being non-muslims.

The analogy was meant to show the correlation between hate propaganda, and the widespread views towards the targets of that propaganda.

The Jews were blamed for their religious practices that did affect non-Jews. Ie. Interest to gentiles but not to Jews. The Jews had a lot of financial power and were despised for it. They did this in the name of their religion, as a part of their belief system.

This led to a dehumanization of Jews in the media. All Jews were considered enemies...no matter if they were rich or poor. Everyone was labelled and villified.

In the same manner, right wing media has not and don't want to distinguish radicals from the orthodox.

Mike: Miller said:

Frank Miller: People say why did we attack Iraq for instance. Well, we’re taking on an idea. Nobody questions why after Pearl Harbor we attacked Nazi Germany. It’s because we were taking on a form of global fascism. We’re doing the same thing now.

Neil Conan: They did declare war on us.

Miller: Yeah, what I mean is…pfft…so did Iraq (chuckling).

He also said:

“genetically [yes, that's what he said] mutilate their daughters”

It's clear he's living in his own fantasy world.

BTW, the "contemporary" use of some words are based on ignorance...so the use of them in a "contemporary" context only goes to show that the person who used them didn't do any research, and get their information from mislead sources.
 

Kastrioti

Persecution Complex
Ninja Scooter said:
wow Frank Miller is kind of an idiot.

I don't see how you can call someone as successful as Frank Miller an idiot. His opinions may be misguided but after watching Sin City and 300(and falling in love with both films) there is absolutely no way you can call him an idiot.
 

White Man

Member
Frank Miller has never been the sharpest knife in the drawer. You basically read his comics, be glad they rock, and roll your eyes whenever he talks.
 
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