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French Comedian Dieudonne Arrested Over Facebook Post On Charlie Hebdo Attack
- Thread starter Sir Alemeth
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Air Zombie Meat
Member
What the fuck...that was tasteless but hate speech? I don't see it.
BaronLundi
Member
"I am Charlie Coulibaly" = "I side with Charlie... and with the guy who killed 4 Jews"
The intention is pretty clear. Again, arresting him is still a mistake.
Well have you noticed?
CHARLIE
ICHRAEL
And:
It was all for Netanyahu!!!
WHO ARE YOU BARONLUNDI AND WHO SENT YOU ???
Lmfao i'm dying here. And the comment under the map is even more hilarious
" Here is the path of the Republican march that has united 2 million people this sunday in the streets of Paris. They'll do everything to please Netanyahu. I hope that one day you'll understand that nothing ever happens on earth by accident "
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Most religious texts themselves could be construed as hate speech.
You either want free speech our you don't. Dumb Facebook jokes are part part of that, unfortunately.
You either want free speech our you don't. Dumb Facebook jokes are part part of that, unfortunately.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
It is messed up. Now I've read the rest of the thread it seems it was for supporting terrorists, not hate speech. It seems like what happens in the UK occasionally, someone gets prosecuted just to make an example of them. I'm sure he wasn't the only person in France to make screwed up comments like that on social media. I'm not going to lose any sleep for him (he sounds like a douche) but it seems a shame after the awesome response to the killings.
GeordieMark
Member
Free speech until someone says something we don't like. How ironic.
Can't say I'm surprised by this as it has always been this way.
Can't say I'm surprised by this as it has always been this way.
Anton Sugar
Member
Right, but isn't a crux of this entire issue is that Charlie Hebdo, or anyone, for that matter, should be allowed to use free speech in provocative ways without fear of persecution?
He didn't make a death threat. He didn't threaten terrorism. He made a dumb comment.
BaronLundi
Member
Yeah, I posted a bit earlier about the 50+ prosecutions for "apology of terrorism" that have happened since the attacks.
It's all messed up but Dieudonné sure doesn't get any special treatment. Justice even condemned a drunk guy with a slight mental deficiency to 6 months of prison. So who knows, maybe Dieudonné will manage to get away with it ?
It's a clear appeal to his fans (a lot of which are truly fanatics in every sense of the word) that the path he indicates is 1. Protect freedom of expression and 2. Kill Jews. It's anything but a dumb comment. Totally planned. Bastard must be thrilled by the turn of events.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Ah ok, sorry. I missed that somehow.
read the thread ? wtf how do we still have people having this knee jerk reaction on page 5 ?
It's patently horrible. As far as I'm concerned it makes France as bad as Turkey or Russia. They've thrown a mentally unstable guy in prison for six fucking months already. They're prosecuting a comedian for christs sake.
And_Gignac
Member
Exactly. This is really dumb and playing right into the other side who thinks Charlie's satire and mockery of Islam's religious symbols is hate speech.
Still, this arrest is a marvelous example of western exceptionalism.
"Western" exceptionalism...except this would never happen in the Anglo-American world. (Except maybe the UK).
Air Zombie Meat
Member
It's not unheard of for people to become radicalised in prison too so it's something that could backfire.
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm having trouble understanding how "Today I feel like Charlie Coulibaly" is the same as telling his fans to kill Jews. He himself said it was about how he felt he was being treated as a terrorist, right?
Not that his explanation couldn't have been disingenuous, but I have trouble equating his comment with a call to kill Jews.
jakonovski
Member
It's as it ever was, the people who are "right" get the benefit of doubt, the ones who are "wrong" are interpreted as negatively as possible.
Theres a difference between being anti Semitic and anti Judaism.(Just like there is a difference between anti Muslim and anti Islam)
But its still stupid to arrest someone for a Facebook post. (That wasn't actually inciting to violence)
I think hate speech laws in general are rather idiotic. Is there any evidence that they reduce 'hate'?
But its still stupid to arrest someone for a Facebook post. (That wasn't actually inciting to violence)
I think hate speech laws in general are rather idiotic. Is there any evidence that they reduce 'hate'?
BaronLundi
Member
Well, are you familiar with the guy? Because he's a master in double speak. And it's of course not a plain clear-cut call to kill. But there is zero doubt that in this context (don't forget the subtext: his 'thesis' is that Jews are respondible for slavery and all black people's suffering) he's saying he's feeling like a man whose mission is to kill Jews.
TrojanBlade
Member
Here you go folks ... some more free speech hypocrisies :
Israel to demand apology for anti-Semitic Netanyahu cartoon
BBC reporter faces calls to resign
Again I ask who defines the rules for free speech? Why are these folks being asked to resign or apologize?
Israel to demand apology for anti-Semitic Netanyahu cartoon
BBC reporter faces calls to resign
Again I ask who defines the rules for free speech? Why are these folks being asked to resign or apologize?
A master of double-speak! If he learns the dehumanising stare he could become unstoppable!
Gnome Scat
Member
Well I guess he didn't pay his buck o' five, or whatever that is in Euros.
Miles Quaritch
Member
Seems like a reasonable response. People are just too sensitive.
BrainZEROX
Member
In France that would be Justice. Hence prosecutions against Charlie Hebdo (they won it eventually) and Dieudonne (we don't know yet).
Resign or apologise. Not be imprisoned, fined or murdered.
Big difference.
And this cartoon shows us part of the problem. Trying to stop legitimate debate in the guise of attacking criticism as 'racism' and the like.
Alot of defenders of Israel use the anti semiticism card fast and loose. Its a way to shit down debate. Thats exactly what people are doing with Charlie. Dont like the image? Think its sacraliege? "Thats racist omg!"
No one is saying that you cant call for people to be fired, or to apologise for 'offending'.
We'll soon know, depending on how the trial goes.
It could be easily interpreted as "I support the action of killing people in the name of religious dogmas illegal in this country", by which it would be.
It's not some local tailor that decides this, but it's the country's judiciary that has the authority on such matters.
I can't believe some people here are not able to understand this simple thing.
It's the court that decides this. If you feel local police/government did something unfair to you or your family, you can always fight it in the court.
Dude Abides
Banned
People understand it perfectly fine, it's just not a very good point.
This is the same 'judiciary' that just jailed a mentally ill man for six months for having the temerity to drunkenly agree with the terrorist bombings.
Did you read that? Mentally ill, drunk, now jailed for saying something dumb. Talk about show trials. This 'judiciary' is a joke.
As far as I know, no one has ever been condemned for just being a racist in these hate speech countries, so you hate speech haters should really know what you're talking about. Racist people who support or even try to get people to become violent or otherwise become against a particular group of people.. Now THOSE have been condemned. Racist people who shout nigger or terrorist when seeing a black person or a muslim are not criminals by hate speech standards. You can have the opinion that black people are inferior, so long as you don't publicly make it known that you think they should all be killed or deported or beaten up or their lives made harder in some way.
More Fun To Compute
Member
Being offensive should not really be an issue but there are common cases where speech can cause more than offence. Like if there is some sort of incitement to violence or a lie that could cause danger or harm.
BearFlexington
Member
Agreed.
I lol'd
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
What the hell is glorifying terrorism?
and
are pretty big red flags when trying to defend he was just making a joke via free speech.
I've already explained that the gesture he invented was in no way a nazi salute. You can easily find my other posts in this thread.
As for his comments on Foley, he did mock the death of the poor guy but what he said is that the western world and us French people find it horrible that Foley got beheaded when throughout our History we've ourselves beheaded countless men and women with La Guillotine. I think he will also face trial for his comments on Foley, i'm not sure about that though.
Again, Dieudonné is a piece of shit. But accusing him of " glorifying terrorism " for saying " I feel like I am Charlie Coulibaly " is borderline illegal. If the judges follow the law and do their duty, he'll end up winning his trial.
WAR recon zero
Banned
You guys have a pretty funny meaning of free speech.
Everything should be subject to mockery amirite?
Everything should be subject to mockery amirite?
It's because of all the noise that was being made about free speech in favor of Charlie Hebdo. I'm sure most people here realize that European free speech allows for many restrictions.
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