He may have not invented it with that meaning, but when his fans started using it as a gesture against jews he never even tried to dismiss them or that other meaning. It is now used as an anti-jew salute and he is contempt with that, regardless of what the gesture originally meant.
French Comedian Dieudonne Arrested Over Facebook Post On Charlie Hebdo Attack
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He may have not invented it with that meaning, but when his fans started using it as a gesture against jews he never even tried to dismiss them or that other meaning. It is now used as an anti-jew salute and he is contempt with that, regardless of what the gesture originally meant.
RustyNails
Member
It is actually more interesting now, because people are scrambling to provide context for this dude's arrest within the subtext of the Immaculate Free Speech, whereas few hours ago people who got offended were told to deal with it.
By a minority.
I explained in my first post that it was indeed used as an antisemitic salute by some of his fans. For example the ones who took pictures of themselves in Auschwitz.
If you look at the vast majority of the pictures by people doing the Quenelle, it has nothing to do with jews or anything related to jews. Some of them do it during weddings, some of them on holidays etc... etc.. It's a very vulgar gesture, like giving the finger, what's around you and/or what you're pointing at while doing it is what makes it an antisemitic gesture or not.
No, France is not the Anglo-American world. Hell, there's barely a country that comes close with regard to traditional freedoms. Australia, New Zealand and Canada all have pretty strong protections on speech, and while none are quite as strong as the United States would sure as fuck see that no one was arrested for a thought crime. Considering this is an English speaking board, it's not at all weird that a lot of people would be from backgrounds which hold free speech as the high precept of democratic progress.
I have a huge problem with Frances inconsistency on this stuff.
m_shortpants
Member
Love the double standards here.
Free speech? Or just free speech for certain people and certain ideas?
Free speech? Or just free speech for certain people and certain ideas?
SketchTheArtist
Member
It's actually translated I AM CHARLIE COULIBALY and also your thing's out of context but don't let me stop you.
Just easier to say he's a maniac without a shred of humanity, off with his head, etc.
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
He was arrested for that? Then what was the march about?
There are also other differences that can probably explain some of these attitudes. Americans tend to be more distrustful of their own government and are generally speaking less willing to accept any constitutional restrictions. Enacting any common sense legislation related to gun control is extremely difficult and this same dynamic applies to other amendments.
The difference is the justice system in France is not completely broken and there is generally speaking more transparency and accountability in governance. Thus citizens are also more willing to accept statutes that are open to subjective interpretation. As long as these hate speech laws are applied properly and without too much confusion, I believe they have a good purpose. It is important to safeguard people from excessive incendiary rhetoric, because we all know what the worst case scenario can be. But if they are used just to make political statements, a show of force to citizenry or what have you, then we need to re-evaluate our approach. It is a fine line at times, this has been an ongoing discussion in many European countries, but some lunatic promoting that every person of XYZ faith/ethnicity/sexual orientation should be killed or discriminated is not important to the democratic process whatsoever and should be excluded from public discussion with fines if need be.
Was he arrested for this one statement or was he (with all these other individuals) under supervision for a longer time and the officials decided to reign everyone in now?
DXB-KNIGHT
Member
Hypocracy much?
Because this free speech stuff is baloney, it's all bigotry and whose in power.
Lol, France. Never change.
You got a link to it? I would love to see what he said about it. This whole thing is hilarious.
You got a link to it? I would love to see what he said about it. This whole thing is hilarious.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
As much as I think Dieudonne is an hateful antisemitic idiot, I unequivocally stand behind his right to state his opinion.
You can't have it both ways. I denounce anti-jewish speech or pro-terrorism speech but people have the right to express their views until they act. That's when things become criminal.
Its a damn facebook post
You can't have it both ways. I denounce anti-jewish speech or pro-terrorism speech but people have the right to express their views until they act. That's when things become criminal.
Its a damn facebook post
Haha, brilliant. I didn't believe France would cock up so soon, but they sure proved me wrong.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Standing trial over a Facebook post? THINK ABOUT THAT.
Eh free speech is an universal human right. It has nothing to do with america or its constitution. Due to the recent tragedies in france where free speech was being attacked there has been a huge uprising to protect free speech. Its ironic to now realize that there is no free speech in France, and that they actually have laws in place to restrict speech. So yes, people are taking French law and provisions to task due to these grossly hypocritical double standard.
Do you understand now? Its not about America.
RustyNails
Member
Could be
Only french actor I know is Gerard Depardieu.
Edit: Oh and Jean Reno of course
victreeb3l
Member
So fucking ironic.
NYCmetsfan
Banned
Whose whole life is one big joke
France has certain restrictions on free speech, hate speech being one of them. The UN who is responsible for the declaration you're quoting, has already long stated free speech where hate speech and incitement of violence begins. Siding with the guy that killed four Jews for being Jews and has a long history of anti-semitism shows the intent of the message: hate speech.
France has so many restrictions on speech that it could hardly be considered free. He's not charged with inciting hatred, he was charged with sympathising with terror. Which is basically a thought crime.
BaronLundi
Member
Don't really need your permission to understand what he actually meant. I have explained the context in earlier posts. But don't let your lack of knowledge thereof stop you from making off target comments, free speech and all.
What about the islamophobia in france? Isn't that part of ''hate speech''
What if he was trolling? What if he did this because he knew this would happen? Heck we don't know if he was actually supporting the terrorists
The Smoking Bun
Banned
The guy made the equivalent of a dead baby joke. Those are banned now?
At best he should have got his account suspended. That's it.
So we can make fun of Muslims and get called progressive but don't touch our precious Jews.
At best he should have got his account suspended. That's it.
So we can make fun of Muslims and get called progressive but don't touch our precious Jews.
Dieudonne is an anti-semitic douchebag, his history tells us that much. The point is whether he should be jailed for being an ass.
Alx
Member
It is. Many members of the far right have been fined for racist speech.
It is easy to claim trolling, but he has his history. He also has a trial where he can defend himself due to the presumption of innocence.
I read he has a history of being anti-jewish but that doesn't mean he supports terrorism.
Alx
Member
He hasn't been jailed (yet?). Even if promotion of terrorism can get you there, he probably won't. Right now he's in detention. As a matter of fact he's probably already out, or will be within a few hours.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
But here's my question. Can we make jokes making fun of Jew-ish things without being called anti-semite? Or is there a restriction on making jokes based on that particular community?
If a guy like Mel Gibson didn't get jailed why should this comedian? Besides the former having more influence.
People in France have been convicted of hate speech against Muslims and Arabs, but please, don't let things like facts get in the way of your point.
Right, I meant it in more of an abstract; "Should the state be able to imprison people for their political opinions?" The fact that he's been arrested is ghastly enough, the fact that a time of penal servitude is even possible is so alien to us in the Common Law world that it beggars belief. Let alone the fact that people have said that they gave some drunk and mentally ill guy 6 months in prison for the same thing.
Guy who has history of anti-semitism supports acts of violence against Jews. That sounds like something worth investigating as inciting violence, no?
Mel Gibson didn't live in France.
PeskyToaster
Member
The irony of the situation is funnier than his joke. The universe always has the best sense of humor.
The Charlie Hebdo attack was an attack on Jews? Or are you talking about the one on the supermarket.
BaronLundi
Member
He is trolling in the sense that he's perfectly aware of what he is doing, of the reaction it will create and how it means he will be able to cash in on it. And no doubt he support and encourages the hate of Jews. He chose to name Coulibaly (the murderer of the Jewish supermarket) and not the Kouachi brothers (the murderers of Charlie Hebdo's staff) for a very transparent reason.
Ah I see
The thing that gets me is that he said he was Charlie Coulibaly, the shooters name was Amedy Coulibaly. To me it seems like it was a way of saying he was torn between both sides. At least unless there was something I didn't read properly.
The Smoking Bun
Banned
That's good then. But again, how do we define a line where one side is hate speech and the other is satire? Not defending the comedian, since the Facebook post is the cherry on top of a hate cake apparently
Bad comparison, I know. Was under the impression that anti-hate laws in the west would be similar enough.
Honestly it's just a name. If this was anybody else, I doubt it would have caused a reaction like this. Then again...
He is referencing Charlie so he can claim free speech. He is allowed to shock because it is like Charlie Hebdo, only you know actually racist.
Well, the UN has a very good definition of the fine line between hate speech and normal speech. It's a court's duty to decide whether that line has been crossed, from regular court up to the European Court.
TheRedSnifit
Member
It's notable because of all the RA RA FREE SPEECH stuff that's been going on in France lately. It's pretty weird (or maybe not) to see them hauling people to court over speech laws not two weeks later.
You're going to be hearing a call from my e-lawyers tomorrow.
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