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[ComputerMKII]

Gay marriage row moves to French parliament

After the mass street protests and months of rancorous debate, proposals to allow gay couples to marry and adopt children will finally be debated in the French parliament on Tuesday.

The deputies, many of whom have taken part in the recent pro and anti-gay marriage protests, will begin discussing the proposed “marriage for all” law in a debate that is expected to last for at least 12 days, weekends and evenings included.

Activists opposing the bill marked the start of the debate by hanging banners from bridges around Paris daubed with slogans such as "One mother, one father, it's elementary" and "everyone born to a man and a woman".

Justice Minister Christiane Taubira, a vocal supporter of the bill in recent weeks, is expected to kick-off the debate later in the day.

With the Socialists having a clear majority in the Assembly Nationale the bill is expected to pass, but no one in the government is taking their chances.

The leader of the Socialist group in parliament Bruno Le Roux sent an email to his fellow deputies on the left warning them of the need to “mobilise”.

Deputies from outside Paris, who would normally return home to the regions at the weekend, are expected to stay in the French capital for the duration of the debate.

Click here to read 10 of the most provocative statements made in the gay marriage row.

5,362 amendments tabled

Despite the majority the left are expecting a tough ride from the right in what could be one of the most fiercely disputed bills in recent times.

Opposition MP’s have tabled a total of 5,362 amendments to the bill as well as 3 motions, one of which is expected to call for a nationwide referendum on the issue.

In French daily Le Parisien this week, the pro-gay marriage Minister for Families Dominique Bertinotti called for the right to “behave with dignity and not resort to insults”.

But leader of the right-wing UMP parliamentary group Christian Jacob hit back saying, “The provocations will all come from the left.”

The bill consists of 14 articles, one of which is allowing gay-marriage. Adoption for same-sex couples, and artificial insemination will also be debated.

Activists are expected to continue to make their presence felt outside parliament over the coming days with the hard-line catholic organisation Civitas having called followers to join for “prayer” outside the National Assembly on Tuesday.

Opinion polls suggest majority favour legalisation

Recent weeks have seen hundreds of thousands of people taking to the streets to voice either opposition to or support for a reform that has been championed by Socialist President Francois Hollande.

With opinion polls having consistently shown that a comfortable majority of the French supported allowing same sex couples to marry, Hollande could never have anticipated that a promise he made in his election manifesto last year would generate such controversy.

Instead, a campaign orchestrated by the Catholic church and belatedly backed by the mainstream centre-right opposition steadily gathered momentum throughout the autumn and culminated in a giant protest in Paris two weeks ago.

Somewhere between 340,000 and 800,000 demonstrators flooded into the capital in a protest that was at least twice the size of a pro-gay marriage march staged on Sunday.

Referring to Tuesday’s parliamentary debate Communist Party Senator for Paris Pierre Laurent told The Local Sunday’s protest was an important message for the government.

“We need to show that the majority of this country is in favour of this project. We need to give the government the courage to follow this through. They can’t back track now,” he said.

The movement in support of gay marriage has been less strident but did produce one of the most iconic images of recent times, AFP photographer Gerard Julien's snap of a lesbian couple kissing in front of opponents of the planned legislation.

Throughout all the turmoil, Hollande's support for the legislation has not wavered and his girlfriend, Valerie Trierweiller, has revealed that the president will be attending the marriages of gay friends once the legislation is on the statute books.

That is expected to happen by the middle of this year with the Socialists enjoying an outright majority in parliament and the proposed reform also supported by the Greens, Communists and some centrists.

The Local/AFP (ben.mcpartland@thelocal.com)

http://www.thelocal.fr/page/view/gay-marriage-row-moves-to-french-parliament

 

[Kurtofan]

But leader of the right-wing UMP parliamentary group Christian Jacob hit back saying, “The provocations will all come from the left.”

Starting the bullshit already, great.

the hard-line catholic organisation Civitas having called followers to join for “prayer” outside the National Assembly on Tuesday.

As long as they pray in silence...

 

[scar tissue]

I really don't get how this is still a debate in 2013.
Gay rights literally do not affect you at all if you're heterosexual. People need to shut the fuck up about stuff that does not affect/harm them or other uninvolved people/animals.
Fucking religious nutcases.

 

[Kurtofan]

Debates are the normal procedure before voting a law, especially for major ones such as this one, considering MPs added more than 5000 amendments, many of those are provocations by opponents.

The debates will last two weeks and then the law will be voted, and it should pass normally.

Two Socialist MPs (who are not gay) solidarity-kissing for the law

 

[R10Neymarfan]

I really don't get how this is still a debate in 2013.
Gay rights literally do not affect you at all if you're heterosexual. People need to shut the fuck up about stuff that does not affect/harm them or other uninvolved people/animals.
Fucking religious nutcases.

The bible said so that's why XD

 

[G.O.O.]

Activists are expected to continue to make their presence felt outside parliament over the coming days with the hard-line catholic organisation Civitas having called followers to join for “prayer” outside the National Assembly on Tuesday.

Did Copé say anything about this ?

Can't wait for this to be over. The carnival of stupid needs to end.

OT : for anyone who'd want to show some support : http://gofrance.tumblr.com

 

[Meadows]

Two Socialist MPs (who are not gay) solidarity-kissing for the law

Respect for France +1

 

[Mael]

Can't wait for this to be over. The carnival of stupid needs to end.

I don't think we can possibly agree more.
Why the hell do they not do a referendum about it is another question since they're all so mighty about the legitimacy about it all.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Let's organise a referendum and get this over with.

 

[ElNarez]

A referendum would be unconstitutional, plus it already happened twice when Hollande was put in power and the socialists were given their majority. It's all the legitimacy you need.

 

[Sotha Sil]

I don't think we can possibly agree more.
Why the hell do they not do a referendum about it is another question since they're all so mighty about the legitimacy about it all.

Several constitutional law professors say it can't be done

 

[Truant]

It's 2013, France. Get with the program.

 

[bonercop]

i cannot believe this is still being argued in 2013. holy shit.

 

[Kurtofan]

It's 2013, France. Get with the program.

We're voting it, what the fuck do you want more?

I swear, we get these kind of posts every time the subject pops up, it's not like we're that late compared to the rest of the world.

A parliamentary debate is inevitable when a considerable part of the Assembly is opposed to same-sex marriage, doesn't mean the Socialist majority(and the Greens, the Left radical party and the Left Front) are not going to vote in favour of same-sex marriage.

 

[Pacbois]

Went to the demo in support to the Bill on sunday. Lots of people in the streets of Paris to support equality. Sadly, the media coverage was shit, and the bigots demo next sunday will probably have more coverage. Fuck them.

 

[Mael]

A referendum would be unconstitutional, plus it already happened twice when Hollande was put in power and the socialists were given their majority. It's all the legitimacy you need.

If you believe majority was given for any other reasons that Hollande won the election you know nothing of how the Vth republic works AT ALL.
Why do you think Chirac and Jospin agreed to put the presidential election before the legislative in 2001?
It sure wasn't to make the whole thing more legitimate.

And Hollande was not elected to put in gay mariage, that's a huge misreading of the election.

Also I'm not saying that gay mariage shouldn't be done, I'm totally for shipping the cretinous homophobes out of the country if you ask me.
They can join the raving racists in the list of people to put against the wall coming the next revolution.

Went to the demo in support to the Bill on sunday. Lots of people in the streets of Paris to support equality. Sadly, the media coverage was shit, and the bigots demo next sunday will probably have more coverage. Fuck them.

That's because there was more of the bigots out there (300 000->800 000 for the bigots, 125 000->400 000 for the others).
We're surrounded by morons.
Deal with it.

 

[Kurtofan]

I voted for Hollande partly because he said he was going to legalize same-sex marriage.

Mitterand said he would abolish the death penalty if he was elected even though it was still very popular, way more popular than the opposition to same-sex marriage, and he did because it was part of his promises.

That's because there was more of the bigots out there (300 000->800 000 for the bigots, 125 000->400 000 for the others).
We're surrounded by morons.
Deal with it.

The 300 000 to 800 000 number is just bullshit, the police only counted 100 000 persons.

 

[Escape Goat]

Its crazy we have so much trouble being civil towards one another. You don't have to like or endorse other peoples views but you ought to respect their rights as an individual.

 

[G.O.O.]

A referendum would be unconstitutional, plus it already happened twice when Hollande was put in power and the socialists were given their majority. It's all the legitimacy you need.

Also polls have people massively in favor of it - even though I guess most don't really care.

I don't know why this is discussed so much. Did Christine Boutin bribe everyone in the right ? There's so much the govt could be criticized about, why choose a 100% guaranteed losing bet ?

Went to the demo in support to the Bill on sunday. Lots of people in the streets of Paris to support equality. Sadly, the media coverage was shit, and the bigots demo next sunday will probably have more coverage. Fuck them.

I was there too !

 

[Magni]

From my Facebook feed:

:lol

I wouldn't mind this having to go to a referendum just so the opposition shuts up. Washington state legalized it a year ago before opponents got it suspended and on the ballot last November. It passed with a clear majority and now opponents have no legitimacy whatsoever. And as a bonus millions like me got to vote for it directly.

This will pass and within two years nobody will care anymore.

edit: I did not know that such a referendum would be unconstitutional. Still, it's not like there's any doubt the majority is ok with this law. I usually side with the UMP, but on this issue I gotta say they're beyond retarded.

 

[ElNarez]

If you believe majority was given for any other reasons that Hollande won the election you know nothing of how the Vth republic works AT ALL.
Why do you think Chirac and Jospin agreed to put the presidential election before the legislative in 2001?
It sure wasn't to make the whole thing more legitimate.

And Hollande was not elected to put in gay mariage, that's a huge misreading of the election.

Hollande didn't pull gay marriage out of nowhere. It's been a pretty well publicized part of his program. The one for which he was elected. The one which the socialist majority has been elected to make into law.

The people have chosen. To put in question their legitimacy is way bigger a misunderstanding of the workings of the Vth Republic. How this system is broken and what should be changed about it is another discussion for another day, probably one where one of the two major parties has a 3/5ths of both houses.

 

[Tugatrix]

Why such a fuss? In Portugal was a lot more peaceful and consensual

 

[ElNarez]

That's because there was more of the bigots out there (300 000->800 000 for the bigots, 125 000->400 000 for the others).
We're surrounded by morons.
Deal with it.

And now to be fair, the January 13th protest against gay marriage was made on a budget of one million euros, whereas this past weekend's protest was made on a budget of 20000. I feel it puts the numbers into perspective.

I don't know why this is discussed so much. Did Christine Boutin bribe everyone in the right ? There's so much the govt could be criticized about, why choose a 100% guaranteed losing bet ?!

Well, the right's been pretty divided over the past six months or so, what with Sarkozy's defeat and the whole Copé-Fillon mess. So, what better way to get everyone together than a good old fashioned hate mob?

 

[ivysaur12]

Not French, but people in representative democracies elect leaders not to shirk their legislative responsibilities when controversial legislation arises. Civil rights should never be put up for a public vote unless every other option to achieve equality has been sapped.

 

[Mael]

Hollande didn't pull gay marriage out of nowhere. It's been a pretty well publicized part of his program. The one for which he was elected. The one which the socialist majority has been elected to make into law.

Yes, keep believing that people voted for him and not against Sarkozy.
That's the whole electoral campaign we got since 2007, a freaking plebiscite to know whether or not we liked Nicolas Sarkozy.
Do I need to point out how much they pinned everything on his shoes even as far as last november?
They've also been elected to put retirement back at 60, and that's not happening any time soon either.

The people have chosen. To put in question their legitimacy is way bigger a misunderstanding of the workings of the Vth Republic. How this system is broken and what should be changed about it is another discussion for another day, probably one where one of the two major parties has a 3/5ths of both houses.

Actually there is a valid question in putting in question the legitimacy of an Assemblee that is now nothing more than a corporation defending itself and otherwise being a "chambre d'enregistrement" as some rightfully put it.
I found the validity of the legislative questionable in 2001, because PS won the election doesn't make it more valid now.

I voted for Hollande partly because he said he was going to legalize same-sex marriage.

Mitterand said he would abolish the death penalty if he was elected even though it was still very popular, way more popular than the opposition to same-sex marriage, and he did because it was part of his promises.

I wouldn't put Death penalty in the same ball park as gay mariage at all (I care about death penalty for once ).
The gay mariage was something he pulled out of the PS's program, I'm also pretty sure that Sarkozy had more to do with Hollande being elected than Hollande himself.
Seriously Hollande had an hollowed out program that made no sense as far as economy goes and promises for his clientele only.

The 300 000 to 800 000 number is just bullshit, the police only counted 100 000 persons.

The problem with all manifestations is that you always have the numbers given by the polic (correct number) and the BS inflated number by the people organising the whole thing.
Even 100 000 is still way too much for that thing anyway.
We're still surrounded by cretinous morons.

And now to be fair, the January 13th protest against gay marriage was made on a budget of one million euros, whereas this past weekend's protest was made on a budget of 20000. I feel it puts the numbers into perspective.

Well on thing to be said the right at least know how to organise a protest :/

Well, the right's been pretty divided over the past six months or so, what with Sarkozy's defeat and the whole Copé-Fillon mess. So, what better way to get everyone together than a good old fashioned hate mob?

Worked for Hollande after all.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Why such a fuss? In Portugal was a lot more peaceful and consensual

Because we're French. We like to argue.

By the way, I'm sad when I see the advocates of 'progress' insulting their opponents (calling others bigots and other names that belong in the schoolyard when not even all gay marriage opponents are religious), not respecting/understanding freedom of the press ('we didn't get enough coverage') and the most basic principles of democracy ('lol you can't have a referendum' - which is a moot point) on a very divisive question that would benefit in being settled by universal suffrage.

If your pride yourselves as being on the side of humanism, intelligence and tolerance, do act like it.

 

[Mael]

Because we're French.

That's nothing, wait till we get to the "negociations" between Medef and the unions...

 

[ElNarez]

That's nothing, wait till we get to the "negociations" between Medef and the unions...

Didn't those already happen, and didn't they went smoothly enough that an agreement has been signed by most parties, meaning it's only a matter of being made into law?

And repeating over and over again that Hollande's victory wasn't legitimate will not make it more true. More people voted for him. That's the only criteria that matters in a democracy.

But again, not the topic of the thread, so let's go back to right-wing MPs barely being able to contain their homophobia.

 

[MilesWebber]

France has a problem with gay people? REALLY? LOL. It has the most fem guys on the planet packed into one country. Wrists so limp I'm amazed they were able to hammer in the bolts that made our national monument.

 

[G.O.O.]

(calling others bigots when not even all gay marriage opponents are religious)

The most vocal ones are religious.

And honestly, I can't give a single reason for a non-religious person to oppose this, or a single non-religious argument. Besides "zoophilia will be next", I mean (and even then, I couldn't care less whether or not my neighbor gives blowjobs to his dog).

 

[Mael]

Didn't those already happen, and didn't they went smoothly enough that an agreement has been signed by most parties, meaning it's only a matter of being made into law?

And repeating over and over again that Hollande's victory wasn't legitimate will not make it more true. More people voted for him. That's the only criteria that matters in a democracy.

But again, not the topic of the thread, so let's go back to right-wing MPs barely being able to contain their homophobia.

Hollande's election I have no problem with.
People vote for whoever they want, if they're unhappy in 2 years that's going to be their problem.
The Natioanl Assemblee is something else entirely, and that's where the problem of legitimacy begins.

And there's still many reforms to go, if they don't reform the public sector's retirement system in the coming years the right will be ...well right in that the left never do anything but serve its clientele.
Then again the deputes are corrupt assholes who'd stoop at nothing to keep their privileges anyway.

lame french bashing BS

TheWiicast
double the fail

 

[Magni]

France has a problem with gay people? REALLY? LOL. It has the most fem guys on the planet packed into one country. Wrists so limp I'm amazed they were able to hammer in the bolts that made our national monument.

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8255pu6vY1ry0is1o1_400.gif[IMG][/QUOTE]

I'm hoping that's sarcasm, but lol, I'd think the Italians take the crown when it comes to "most fem guys". One of my Erasmus friends was this gay guy from Spain, he was telling me how horrible it was when he was in Italy because he had no idea who was gay and who wasn't (he thought they all looked gay), so he couldn't approach anyone while he was there, because if the guy was straight they would be extremely offended by it.

 

[MilesWebber]

I'm hoping that's sarcasm, but lol, I'd think the Italians take the crown when it comes to "most fem guys". One of my Erasmus friends was this gay guy from Spain, he was telling me how horrible it was when he was in Italy because he had no idea who was gay and who wasn't (he thought they all looked gay), so he couldn't approach anyone while he was there, because if the guy was straight they would be extremely offended by it.

I thought the crying bald eagle made it pretty obvious.

 

[Majine]

"Your honor..."

 

[Christopher]

Why is this still an issue we are in 2013 this is modern day prejudice still

 

[Tugatrix]

Because we're French. We like to argue.

By the way, I'm sad when I see the advocates of 'progress' insulting their opponents (calling others bigots and other names that belong in the schoolyard when not even all gay marriage opponents are religious), not respecting/understanding freedom of the press ('we didn't get enough coverage') and the most basic principles of democracy ('lol you can't have a referendum' - which is a moot point) on a very divisive question that would benefit in being settled by universal suffrage.

If your pride yourselves as being on the side of humanism, intelligence and tolerance, do act like it.

Here people simple didn't care and endorse some sort of live and let live, if they want marry just let them. The church tried to oppose at the beginning, but seeing the lack of support among they rank they simply give up, without really put up a fight.

The abortion was a completely different story, in 1998 when the first referendum happened the debate was very degrading between the two parts like what you're experiencing now in France. But just 10 years later i don't know what happened, maybe the Portuguese became more politically mature, but the debate was dignified and very focused on facts, the result's were completely different from 1998. Maybe debate and let the people mature the idea can make a big difference in accepting this kind of laws.

 

[G.O.O.]

^ yeah, not sure about this one... this shit already happened when the govt passed a civil union bill back in the 90's, and it already was because it made the state acknowledge the existence of gay couples.

We thought people would have matured since then, but eh...

Spoiler

having openly homophobic people in the ruling party certainly didn't help if you ask me

 

[Black Republican]

French National Assembly Approves Bill Legalizing Gay Marriage and Adoption in 329-229 Vote

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2013/02/fr...d-adoption-in-329-229-vote.html#ixzz2KhdxGvWr

now has to go to their senate for debate

 

[Kurtofan]

French National Assembly Approves Bill Legalizing Gay Marriage and Adoption in 329-229 Vote

Read more: http://www.towleroad.com/2013/02/fr...d-adoption-in-329-229-vote.html#ixzz2KhdxGvWr

now has to go to their senate for debate

Senate can only delay the law, not suppress it.

 

[Black Republican]

kinda like our (UK) house of lords?

good

 

[G.O.O.]

Good times

 

[ivysaur12]

Senate can only delay the law, not suppress it.

This day keeps getting better. Too bad it's not scheduled for debate until April.