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Ugh.

Sat from here it's clear the Syrian machine will try to destroy as much of the "resistance" as they can before international opinion hardens to the point of concrete action.

"Destroy as much of" and "concrete action" are up for discussion of course.

 

[jchap]

Didn't Anthony Shadid die of a heart attack while he was in Syria? It wasn't really related to the fighting.

 

[SUPREME1]

Journalists killed in Syria--some while covering the event, some because they were covering the event:

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/34a3H.jpg[/img]
Marie Colvin, Sunday Times

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/wfYxl.jpg[/img]
Remi Ochlik, Freelance Photojournalist

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/5qfyr.jpg[/img]
Anthony Shadid, New York Times

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/z2PhX.jpg[/img]
Gilles Jacquier, France 2

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/ybta4.jpg[/img]
Basil al-Sayed, Freelance Journalist

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/086nw.jpg[/img]
Rami al-Sayed, Citizen Journalist

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/hacWg.jpg[/img]
Mazhar Tayyara, Agence France-Presse

[ig]http://i.imgur.com/8gUr1.jpg[/img]
Shukri Abu al-Burghul, Radio Damascus (funeral procession)

Not pictured because I didn't want to post a picture of him with his eyes gouged out
Ferzat Jarban, Freelance


Committee to Protect Journalists - Tax-deductible donation, all donations matched dollar-for-dollar by the Committee's chair
Reporters without Borders / Reporters sans Frontiers
Reporters without Borders USA 501(c)3 for US tax deductions

These journalists all had balls that clank, going into a warzone and reporting the stories of those stuck in the madness.

Rest in peace.




*I feel like such an underacheiver right now.

 

[FlyingTeacup]

world politics at its finest where human lives are just statistics.

it's a mystery why the veto system in UN has not been abolished.

 

[jchap]

world politics at its finest where human lives are just statistics.

it's a mystery why the veto system in UN has not been abolished.

Because the UN has no real power other than through the militaries of the nations with veto power

 

[Stumpokapow]

Didn't Anthony Shadid die of a heart attack while he was in Syria? It wasn't really related to the fighting.

He died of an Asthma attack while being smuggled out of the country. The reason why he needed to be smuggled out of the country is because of the dangerous border situation and the dangerous situation there at all. Certainly less direct than Colvin (who was directly killed while covering things) or Jarban (who was killed by state troops because he dared to cover things), but still someone who was willing to put his life on the line to cover this story and who lost his life because of it.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Video allegedly showing bodies of Colvin and Ochlik

 

[Salamndar]

It's heartbreaking. Shame on you arabs. Shame on you.

Though I have to agree to a degree about your post, but some Arab countries did took a stand, The Arabic Gulf countries " Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE and Oman " kicked out the Syrian ambassadors from their countries and withdrawn their ambassadors from Syria, Jordan on the other hand opened its boarders to 75000 Syrians.

Still not enough, but you have to understand that the gulf countries are facing Iran and if they took a military action against Syria, the Iranian will up-rise the situation especially that all Gulf countries have some minor shias that are awaiting orders from Tehran to start riots in these countries on a massive scale, Jordan on the other hand is a much smaller country than Syria.....so you got the point.

 

[Baki]

Sentry's post(s) claiming how Syria is fine and Assad is not a bad guy its the "armed" thugs is suspiciously absent from this thread.

 

[Something Wicked]

As long as the legality of any intervention is dependent on a Russian veto this will be the result. At this point I would be willing to support a NATO and Arab coalition to enforce a no fly zone and full protection of the civilian population. Fuck waiting for a UN security council mandate, the people of Syria are being massacred by a madman with Russian artillery shells for a show of political strength by the Kremlin.

If we (US, UK, France, Arab League) don't intervene even though we have the power and will to do so then, well, the blood is on our hands.

Well, technically a "no fly zone" wouldn't do much since the Syrian regime doesn't have much an airforce and isn't using airstrikes anyway as of now. However, semantics aside, I do agree it's time for NATO to act and attack Syrian military tanks and artillery positions near the cities under siege. Much of the Syrian army could be wiped out in a week if they're just sitting in the open outside of cities. After that comes the decision whether we want Assad's head on spike or not.

What's the difference with what Bahrein did with US support in the middle of the Arab Spring and this? Just scale I think.

Yeah, I think the difference in scale is pretty damn massive. The Bahrain government could never get away with what the Syrian regime is currently doing without the US cutting ties or getting militarily involved in Bahrain.

 

[Solid warrior]

This is the last report filed by Sunday Times reporter, Marie Colvin, killed by the Syrian regime's artillery while reporting from inside Homs. Makes for an especially tragic and haunting read, knowing that the author was killed a day ago and Homs residents continue to suffer with no respite in sight. (the Assad regime stepped up its assault on Homs immediately after Russia and China's double veto at the UN security council, hence the thread title)
http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/public/news/article874796.ece

How did you know it was the Syrian army artillery? What if it was the weakly trained terrorists who did it? It could be factually false.

Early this month, a French Journalist was killed. French Gov, colleagues and the Opposition activists (militia-men) accused the Syrian Army while the independent AL observers claimed as per evidence it was the Opposition Militia men who killed the French Journalist with a rocket as well. His name is Gilles Jacquier, IIRC.

 

[Meadows]

Video allegedly showing bodies of Colvin and Ochlik

is it gory?

 

[CHEEZMO™]

is it gory?

Not from what I can tell.

 

[mercenar1e]

didn't Iran send a few warships to Syria? if the shit hits the fan it will be harder for them to fight & win against the government

 

[amrihua]

It's heartbreaking. Shame on you arabs. Shame on you.

It is an Arab thing you won't understand. Here's the kicker Syria is not the only Arab country where this shit gets happening but only Syria gets media coverage. I wonder why?

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Didn't have to wait long for the "It's somehow America's fault!" brigade to get to work...

 

[Xeke]

Quick lets give the security council seat back to the Republic of China.

 

[commedieu]

Shame on Arabs? How about shame on humanity. All of this is beyond tragic at this point, and no one can claim ignorance. Its disgusting to see all of our governments, wherever you're from, do nothing about any of this. Theres more coverage of Greek debt than Syria.

 

[Osietra]

Not from what I can tell.

You can find worse. Like a toddler dying.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

You can find worse. Like a toddler dying.

I've seen worse. I've posted a few in my thread, but I've seen ones that I don't even want to post on GAF.

Then there's the guy missing his face :|

 

[shuri]

Wow, that Marie Colvin lady looked like a badass.

 

[Jenga]

they are an unprofessional, tabloid style network with shockingly bad coverage of syria.

so perfect for gaf

 

[Player]

My cousin was killed by Assad regime, 3 months ago.

My dad's cousin also killed by Assad regime, 1 week ago.

If Atlantis island was submerged under the sea, then Homs city (or maybe Syria) will sink into the blood.

Bashar Al-jahesh and his regime will fall, will fall in hell.

 

[antonz]

It really bothers me how quickly the Administration and other leaders were so gungho about other countries in a similar situation yet now with Syria we are like Syria what?

Grow a freaking pair and tell China and Russia go ahead and try and stop us.

 

[GillianSeed79]

My cousin was killed by Assad regime, 3 months ago.

My dad's cousin also killed by Assad regime, 1 week ago.

If Atlantis island was submerged under the sea, then Homs city (or maybe Syria) will sink into the blood.

Bashar Al-jahesh and his regime will fall, will fall in hell.

My condolences to you and your family. I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone here that doesn't sympathize with the people of Homs or people who aren't disgusted about the seeming lack of will from the international community's leadership to stop the bloodshed. I'm getting weird Rwanda vibes at this point tbqh.

Just out of curiousity what do you think should be done? Nato intervention? Some sort of military action from the Arab League? Maybe peace keeping troops from Arab league member states like what happened in Africa a few years ago with African peace keeping troops? Do you think this could actually turn into a civil war? Do you think the west should start arming the free Syrian army?

Sorry for so many questions and, again, you have my deepest sympathies.

 

[KTallguy]

It's a really tough situation. It would be good if we could send some peacekeeping forces to at least evacuate the civilians. Hell, they would be suffering at least a little less.

 

[theignoramus]

This situation is EERILY similar to the siege of Sarajevo in the 90s.

After Bosnia and Herzegovina had declared independence from Yugoslavia, the Serbs--whose strategic goal was to create a new Serbian State of Republika Srpska (RS) that would include part of the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina,[6]--encircled Sarajevo with a siege force of 18,000[7] stationed in the surrounding hills. From there they assaulted the city with weapons that included artillery, mortars, tanks, anti-aircraft guns, heavy machine-guns, multiple rocket launchers, rocket-launched aircraft bombs and sniper rifles.[7] From 2 May 1992, the Serbs blockaded the city. The Bosnian government defence forces inside the besieged city were poorly equipped and unable to break the siege.

The second half of 1992 and the first half of 1993 were the height of the siege of Sarajevo, and atrocities were committed during heavy fighting. Serb forces outside the city continuously shelled the government defenders. Inside the city, the Serbs controlled most of the major military positions and the supply of arms. With snipers taking up positions in the city, signs reading Pazite, Snajper! ("Be careful, Sniper!") became commonplace and certain particularly dangerous streets were known as "sniper alleys". The sniper killings of Admira Ismić and Boško Brkić, a couple who tried to cross the lines, became a symbol of the suffering in the city.

The biggest single loss of life was the first Markale marketplace massacre on 5 February 1994, with 68 civilians killed and 200 wounded. Medical facilities were overwhelmed by the scale of the civilian casualties, and only a small number of the wounded benefited from medical evacuation programmes like 1993's Operation Irma.[21]

A large number of Sarajevans were killed or wounded throughout the siege.[8] A report on the total number of deaths over a span of 315 days concluded that 2,474 persons died, with an average of approximately eight killed in the city per day.[8]

Eventually, NATO intervened and bombed Serb military units attacking UN safe zones.

On 6 February 1994, a day after the first Markale marketplace massacre, UN Secretary-General Boutros Boutros-Ghali formally requested NATO to confirm that air strikes would be carried out immediately.[22] On 9 February 1994, at the request of the UN, the North Atlantic Council of NATO authorized the Commander of Allied Forces Southern Europe (CINCSOUTH), U.S. Admiral Jeremy Boorda, to launch air strikes against artillery and mortar positions in and around Sarajevo that were determined by UNPROFOR to be responsible for attacks against civilian targets.[23][24] Only Greece failed to support the use of airstrikes, but did not vote against the proposal.[22] The Council also issued an ultimatum to the Bosnian Serbs, demanding that they remove heavy weapons around Sarajevo by midnight of 20-21 February or face air strikes.[22] On 12 February 1994, Sarajevo enjoyed its first casualty-free day in 22 months (since April 1992).[22]
In 1995 the international forces firmly turned against the besiegers after the second Markale massacre of 28 August, in which 37 people were killed and 90 wounded. On 11 July 1995, NATO aircraft attacked targets in the Srebrenica area as identified by, and under the control of, the United Nations.[25] On 1 August, the Council authorized military planning aimed at deterring an attack on the safe area of Sarajevo. On 4 August, NATO aircraft conducted air strikes against Croatian Serb air defence radars near Udbina airfield and Knin in Croatia.[

 

[theignoramus]

Sky News also commented on this obvious parallel
http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:ef5bcbaa-6eb9-48da-9a08-140eb55f2a0d

Much analysis has been written comparing the Syria town of Homs to Benghazi in Libya.
'Is this Syria's Benghazi moment?' is the question, referring to how, just hours before a probable massacre, NATO flew to the rescue of the besieged town and turned the tide of the Libyan uprising.
The answer to the question may be 'No - it's more like Syria's Sarajevo.'
The parallels are not exact; in Sarajevo, in 1992, there was a three sided civil war with one side, the Bosnian Serbs, armed and supported by a neighbouring state - Serbia. However, what is similar is that for all the clarion calls of 'something must be done', very little was done for several years.
Sarajevo suffered three years of bombardment and thousands of civilian deaths before the international community could agree it had to intervene. Most foreign countries were loath to get involved directly not only because of big power politics, but also because they feared being dragged into a Balkan morass.
In 1995 a short and very sharp NATO combat mission brought the war to an end. A decade later there were still tens of thousands of foreign troops involved in keeping a fragile peace and even now 1,600 EU soldiers remain in the country.
In Homs there is the possibility that after the current bombardment the Syrian Army will enter the parts of town is does not currently control. If opposed, this would lead to continuing loss of civilian life in the fighting, if unopposed there is the strong possibility they will go after men of 'fighting age'. This is often regarded as people between their mid teens and mid fifties.
That fear, and the current wave of shelling, is what drives the international condemnation, and in some quarters calls for military intervention, but without explicit UN cover that looks impossible in the short to medium term.
Even with a UN resolution allowing for military action, few countries would want to risk being pulled into a Syrian civil war. The talk of an Arab force entering Syria appears to be so much hot air, and even the rumblings of a Turkish safe corridor in the north have died down.
In Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, Saudi Arabia, Russia, and the US, all involved themselves covertly, but the war dragged on for three terrible years before NATO began bombing and shelling the Bosnian Serb forces.
This may be the pattern for Syria. With few positive diplomatic moves available the battle lines will harden. The Qataris, the Saudis, maybe the Turks, and possibly some western powers will now help the Free Syrian Army (FSA).
Unless you believe the opposition claims that the attacks on state workers and the police are actually the work of the Government, the FSA can be expected to continue to target symbols of the Syrian state. All the pro opposition countries will forge stronger links with the Syrian National Council whilst calling on all parties to end hostilities .
On the other side Russia will continue to arm the Syrian military, as will the Iranians who will also assist with logistics, intelligence and planning. The Iraqi government can be expected to turn a blind eye to any Iranian assistance coming through its territory, and in Lebanon Hezbollah will give its full support to Damascus while some Sunni dominated parts of the government will support the rebels.
The fighting will play out, there will be a large loss of life on both sides. 'Something must be done' will be heard ever more loudly, but what is being done, will mostly be done in the shadows. Syria's agony will continue for the foreseeable future.

 

[antonz]

Syria doesnt export enough Oil for Europe to care is the problem. Since Europe doesnt care Obama wont do anything.

 

[theignoramus]

Syria doesnt export enough Oil for Europe to care is the problem. Since Europe doesnt care Obama wont do anything.

If there is a massive spill over of refugees into Turkey or the occupied Golan Heights, there will be some kind of response, because a refugee crisis has serious and immediate economic ramifications. Ultimately, that's what spurred action in Kosovo, tens of thousands of refugees flooding across the borders and destabilizing central Europe.

 

[antonz]

If there is a massive spill over of refugees into Turkey or the occupied Golan Heights, there will be some kind of response, because a refugee crisis has serious and immediate economic ramifications. Ultimately, that's what spurred action in Kosovo, tens of thousands of refugees flooding across the borders and destabilizing central Europe.

Thats the sad situation its going to take a crisis of terrible scale for people to get involved and how many have to die before that happens?

 

[finowns]

How can the army do this to its own people? I wonder what their reasoning is.

 

[theignoramus]

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/22/military-thousands-of-troops-needed-to-secure-syrian-chemical-sites/

The U.S. military has calculated it could take more than 75,000 ground troops to secure Syria's chemical warfare facilities if they were at risk of being looted or left unguarded, CNN has learned.

The conclusion comes from a military analysis of options for Syria that the Department of Defense is preparing for president should he request it, according to a senior U.S. official.

Securing Syria's chemical sites would be "extraordinarily difficult" given the scope of the problem, a Department of Defense official told CNN.Both officials would only speak on the condition their names not be used because they were talking about military planning.

The U.S. military believes there are 50 chemical weapon and production sites spread across the country with additional storage sites and research centers as well. The cities of Hama, Homs and al Safira, and the port city of Latakia are all believed to house production facilities.

The analysis was provided by the United States' Central Command, which has been considering how the U.S. military would handle potential scenarios should U.S. troops be called in, according to a senior U.S. official with direct knowledge of the situation.

While the number is large - nearly as many as are currently serving in Afghanistan - any actual deployment should it ever come to that would undoubtedly be significantly smaller than the planning suggested. U.S. officials continue to insist the American position is to push for a diplomatic solution.

"In terms of a military action to secure a part of the country, that is not currently a policy we are pursuing," said White House spokesman Jay Carney on Wednesday.

The U.S. intelligence community currently believes Syria's weapons sites are secured by the regime, Director of National Intelligence James Clapper told Congress last week. But the senior U.S. official who spoke to CNN said the "nightmare scenario" is what would happen if that situation changes and the regime suddenly fall apart, or the fighting gets to the point that the international community believes military intervention is necessary to secure the chemical weapons.

In that type of conflict scenario - in which American or other countries' troops would be entering a hostile environment - air power would also have to be used to destroy Syria's air defenses, which are considered to be capable, the official said. That portion of any campaign could take weeks.

A defense official told CNN's Chris Lawrence last week that while the U.S. "continues to monitor the overall situation in Syria," there are "ongoing discussions specific to the location of, and security around, the various components of their chemical weapons program."

"Syria probably has one of largest programs in the world," said Leonard Specter with the Monterey Institute of International Studies. "It has multiple types of chemical agents." Specter said the stocks include World War I-era gases like chlorine and phosgene as well as more modern nerve gases.

The United States is paying particular attention to the possibility of the weapons falling into the hands of extremists, in the event the government loses control of certain areas or splinters among itself, the defense official said.

"There would be kind of a vacuum that would lend itself to extremists operating in Syria which is particularly troublesome in light of the large network of chemical warfare, (chemcial biological weapons), weapon-storage facilities and other related facilities that there are in Syria," Clapper said.

The senior U.S. official said American military commanders are continuing to strongly advocate for a political and diplomatic option in Syria rather than a military one. Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Clapper have already voiced concerns publicly about arming opposition groups who are not well known to the United States.

But the official also notes the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad itself still has military cards to play. So far the regime has not used its chemical or biological capability or any military aviation units against protestors. If Syrian attack helicopters were called in, he said, "that would be very significant."

"They haven't demonstrated any interest or any intent to use those," Demspey said in an interview that aired this weekend on CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS."

 

[Player]

My condolences to you and your family. I think you'd be hardpressed to find anyone here that doesn't sympathize with the people of Homs or people who aren't disgusted about the seeming lack of will from the international community's leadership to stop the bloodshed. I'm getting weird Rwanda vibes at this point tbqh.

Just out of curiousity what do you think should be done? Nato intervention? Some sort of military action from the Arab League? Maybe peace keeping troops from Arab league member states like what happened in Africa a few years ago with African peace keeping troops? Do you think this could actually turn into a civil war? Do you think the west should start arming the free Syrian army?

Sorry for so many questions and, again, you have my deepest sympathies.

Thank you for your sympathy, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

I support anything can make the Syrian government to stop the use of tanks, snipers and torture to suppress peaceful dissent.

Turkey and the Arab League could potentially do something, the West needs to stay well aware or they will be dragged into a regional war involving Iran and Hezbollah and a million other factions.

In the end, the Syrian people will win.

“If, one day, a people desires to live, then fate will answer their call.

And their night will then begin to fade, and their chains break and fall."

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

How can the army do this to its own people? I wonder what their reasoning is.

They like staying in power.

I'm sure they are also duped into beleiving that if the current government is overthrown, lots of horrible things will happen to them.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

How can the army do this to its own people? I wonder what their reasoning is.

Ethnic/tribal differences with the Alaiwaite(sp) and the gen pop. Its that way with leadership, not sure if its the case with attacking units. I should also add Syria did the exact same thing before in the 1980s, so its nothing new.