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G\A\F SWAT Team kills man using info from meth addict who stole his car.
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Foxy Fox 39
Banned
So an innocent being killed is better than police *possibly* having a shootout with suspects.
If that's the case, why don't we have sacrificial innocents every year to stop police on criminal violence.
What do you think is a good number to stop this violence? Maybe 2000 innocent virgins every year?
Conkersbadfurday
Member
Pretty fuckin much this.
I feel like police shootings have become the new fad. Does this mean we can retire YOLO?
……forgetit
Member
I have family in Dublin, it's a shit hole.
Well, let's shut down hospitals then...
Here's the real jam:
In Iraq, I told myself I would much rather get shot for being too cautious than shoot a civilian. Now, I don't know if that would have really panned out given the opportunity, but there it is. I believe every single police officer should have the same attitude.
These cops should be getting better information, and these no knock raids should be used as a last resort only when they have rock-solid intel (or as rock-solid as intel can be).
But it's getting a little ridiculous on here, reddit, and the Internet in general. It's like a race to the fucking bottom to see who can be the most liberal, forward-thinking person out there, facts and logic be damned! Do I think these raids are used excessively on potential criminals who do not warrant such a response? Yes. Do I believe these raids should be used much more sparingly? Of course. Do I think that these cops are murder junkies who go home after this and jerk off thinking about how they just shot some random person? Probably not, but I would assume some do.
People posting in this thread have no fucking clue what they're talking about. We could have LEOs on here who could give us fucking classes on why these raids happen and why they need to continue to happen. They could give us all the statistics and anecdotal evidence. But that's never going to be enough for people here. It's fucking stupid.
I've taken your retort into account and have changed my entire outlook on life.
yes
I'm liberal as fuck. It's this neo-liberal movement so pervasive on the Internet I can't stand.
I was only addressing the dude who called these raids something to the effect of "sanctioned police murder parties".
If you read anything else I wrote you'd see that I'm against their needless overuse.
Ace Harding
Member
What a tragic and senseless death. I hope the widow's attorney is legit.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Cops keeping us safe.
Costs of war on drugs continue.
What else is new.
Cops have forgotten their place.
WE employ them to keep us safe.
No knock raids over drugs should be illegal.
Costs of war on drugs continue.
What else is new.
Cops have forgotten their place.
WE employ them to keep us safe.
No knock raids over drugs should be illegal.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
I feel like I'm more likely to be killed by cops rather than helped.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Same here.
the cops are getting bad info, authorizing lethal force against innocent fucking people, and innocent fucking people are being killed
innocent fucking people are being killed by the police
innocent fucking people are being killed by the police
I don't give a shit if this isn't "representative" of how these bullshit drug raids usually go, or if there's some "anecdotal evidence" that suggests we need them. because innocent fucking people are being killed by the police and there is no atonement and no measures taken to make sure it won't keep happening, and we cannot abide it
innocent fucking people are being killed by the police
innocent fucking people are being killed by the police
I don't give a shit if this isn't "representative" of how these bullshit drug raids usually go, or if there's some "anecdotal evidence" that suggests we need them. because innocent fucking people are being killed by the police and there is no atonement and no measures taken to make sure it won't keep happening, and we cannot abide it
Some examples of what I mentioned earlier:
From 2008 (in Virginia):
Ryan Frederick shot and killed Detective Jarrod Shivers as the latter was breaking through Frederick's front door on a no-knock raid. Police based the raid on the word of an informant who had broken into Frederick's house a few days before.
Police charged Frederick with murder. He was convicted of manslaughter and is serving 10 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Frederick
Two more recent cases:
Marvin Louis Guy shot and killed Detective Charles Dinwiddie as the latter was breaking through Guy's window on a no-knock raid.
Guy is charged with murder in Dinwiddie's death and three counts of attempted murder for shots that hit other officers who were also forcing entry. He is currently in jail in Texas awaiting trial.
Henry Goedrich Magee shot and killed Sgt. Adam Sowders as the latter was breaking into Magee's mobile home on a no-knock raid.
Magee did not go to trial after a grand jury refused to indict him this February in central Texas.
On the flip side, when police injure or kill innocents during these no-knock raids, they are typically found to have been "following procedure" and absolved of all wrongdoing.
I've purposefully avoided links, but bolded the names so they should be easy to Google. Take your pick of news sources. And there are more like this out there.
From 2008 (in Virginia):
Ryan Frederick shot and killed Detective Jarrod Shivers as the latter was breaking through Frederick's front door on a no-knock raid. Police based the raid on the word of an informant who had broken into Frederick's house a few days before.
Police charged Frederick with murder. He was convicted of manslaughter and is serving 10 years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Frederick
Two more recent cases:
Marvin Louis Guy shot and killed Detective Charles Dinwiddie as the latter was breaking through Guy's window on a no-knock raid.
Guy is charged with murder in Dinwiddie's death and three counts of attempted murder for shots that hit other officers who were also forcing entry. He is currently in jail in Texas awaiting trial.
Henry Goedrich Magee shot and killed Sgt. Adam Sowders as the latter was breaking into Magee's mobile home on a no-knock raid.
Magee did not go to trial after a grand jury refused to indict him this February in central Texas.
On the flip side, when police injure or kill innocents during these no-knock raids, they are typically found to have been "following procedure" and absolved of all wrongdoing.
I've purposefully avoided links, but bolded the names so they should be easy to Google. Take your pick of news sources. And there are more like this out there.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
That's cuz no one ever posts feel good stories about the police, cuz they completely ignore all the good they do and only focus on their fuck ups
……forgetit
Member
Cuz you know, problems need to be fixed.
This in no way addresses what he said.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
I've had bad run ins with cops my entire life because I'm Hispanic. It seems they get away with more shit than ever before.
……forgetit
Member
People focus on negative stories when there are issues. Good news doesn't exactly travel far anyway.
It's your God given constitutional duty to stand your ground. If you fucking shoot a cop while doing so, though, we're going to throw the fucking book at you.
Stories like this shouldn't be taken as "well this is bad, but think of all the great things they do!" A guy gets his car stolen, thief/junkie gives bullshit tip to cops, and cops shoot guy who got his car stolen, all because these guys didn't do their fucking job. This story and every other of "SWAT raid wrong home, SWAT shoots dude in wrong home etc." can represent 0.001% of all police raids this year, but that margin of error is still way too fucking high to be acceptable. Innocent civilians should not be harmed or fucking killed because a cop fucked up the address, or his chief felt that no-knock raids were totally okay.
How many good deeds are worth the death of one innocent?
unholyrevenger72
Banned
In truth it's just a matter of percentages and money, Cops have a higher percentage of apprehending perps with minimal harm to all parties involved if the police take them by surprise. That said, tragedies do happen, but no knock raids are statistically the best way for cops to apprehend multiple potentially armed targets.
And as far as money is concerned.
1 dead guy equals = 1 settlement and some outrage
1 shoot out= Cost of ammo, Hospital Bills for perps and Cops, Possible multiple settlements from people caught in the cross fire, funeral bills, emt bills, miscellaneous property damage costs, Psychiatry bills for the cops, on site clean up costs. AND a METRIC fuck ton of outrage.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
42
……forgetit
Member
Hold up, are you saying dead innocents are better than missing a few perps? I say hands down if the risk of civilian casualties is high, it shouldn't be done.
Amory
Member
That's because their fuck ups are killing people. It's nice that a cop might occasionally help old ladies cross the street but one innocent person killed by police outweighs a million random acts of kindness. Sorry.
……forgetit
Member
This isn't remotely funny, people are dead.
MHWilliams
Member
Again, like the situation with the 19-year old young boy in the other thread:
Why are the police going full-in on every random tip?
"Because someone thinks something" isn't a good reason to go in guns drawn.
Why are the police going full-in on every random tip?
"Because someone thinks something" isn't a good reason to go in guns drawn.
It's interesting that the Venn overlap between pro-gun and pro-police advocates is probably quite large. I also wonder how the generally conservative police population feels about the staunchly conservative-based gun proliferation that actually makes their job horrifyingly more difficult and dangerous.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Then you're an idiot if you believe a 1 in thousand chance is too small a margin of error. No job on earth has margin of error that small.
It's tragic yes, but reality check, shit happens, people fuck up. If you want perfection, that's too fuckin bad, it doesn't exist.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Do you laugh at all? In the time you it took you write that response, several hundred people around the world have died.
FinalStageBoss
Banned
No knock raids are the dumbest shit imaginable. People legally own guns to protect their homes, wtf do they think will happen if they break down someone's door?
Hale-XF11
Member
It's one thing to fuck up. It's another thing not to address the fuck up and continue fucking up, one raid after another. Their methods need to be changed. The laws need to be changed. There is a resolution for this problem. It's not just a single fuck up.
……forgetit
Member
You made a joke saying it's perfectly OK to outright murder someone if you do 42 good deeds. That shit isn't funny.
This is exactly it. In the business world, if someone dies on the job, there will be endless meetings and policy implementations to ensure it never, ever happens again. When police kill someone, first question seems to be "can we cover our asses on this one?" and then they close ranks and continue with business as usual.
It makes me wonder how fucking obnoxious to the other officers that cop who shot the man at the gas station must have been, in order to actually suffer any consequences.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
That is some terrorism level gangster shit right there.
we are talking about the violent deaths of innocents at the hands of police departments
when your job is to use lethal force against dangerous criminals, the margin of error better be WAY fucking smaller than that, or else things need to seriously change
Most jobs' errors don't involve actively killing someone with a weapon(even if some involve someone having an accident and dying).
When your job's main task is to protect citizens and you end up killing an innocent one because a drug dealer gave you some bogus information, that's some big issue I'd say. At least it would be where I live.
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