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GAF Indie Game Development Thread 2: High Res Work for Low Res Pay

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Hey people. I need to learn a software by myself in two weeks for one of my engineering classes. I wanted to do a programming software as I plan to go into Software Engineering. As time is limited, and I have many other things to do, I was thinking of making a game like rock paper scissors or something similarly simple. I currently know some C++ (arrays, loops, pointers, classes, functions), but that is just from an introductory programming course. Are there any game engines that would allow me to make a simple game relatively easy?/
 

Jobbs

Banned
Hey people. I need to learn a software by myself in two weeks for one of my engineering classes. I wanted to do a programming software as I plan to go into Software Engineering. As time is limited, and I have many other things to do, I was thinking of making a game like rock paper scissors or something simialrly simple. I currently know some C++ (arrays, loops, pointers, classes, functions), but that is just from an introductory programming course. Are there any game engines that would allow me to make a simple game relatively easy?/

stencyl can spit out simple games very very VERY VERY easily. rock paper scissors is a snap. I could probably make a rock paper scissors game in 10 minutes.
 
stencyl can spit out simple games very very VERY VERY easily. rock paper scissors is a snap. I could probably make a rock paper scissors game in 10 minutes.

I've never heard of this before reading the OP. The OP definitely makes it seem simple, even with my basic programming skills. Is it possible to make the game look good and everything too? I guess if it is really that simple, I could make a few games like RPS, tic-tac-toe, number guessing, etc. just to have a "portfolio" to show.

In addition to creating something, I have to explain why I chose to learn the software. I don't think this part will be hard though.
 
Hey people. I need to learn a software by myself in two weeks for one of my engineering classes. I wanted to do a programming software as I plan to go into Software Engineering. As time is limited, and I have many other things to do, I was thinking of making a game like rock paper scissors or something simialrly simple. I currently know some C++ (arrays, loops, pointers, classes, functions), but that is just from an introductory programming course. Are there any game engines that would allow me to make a simple game relatively easy?/

With Rock Paper Scissors you can always just use the console.
 
Hope people at GDC have a good time :D

Still working on bugs atm before I start adding more. Fixed some of the pistol issues but stuck on one where the pistol disappears when you swap equip the sword. Slowly debugging it though.

Once that's done its on to adding loot on corpses, stamina, damage numbers and then into making the second part of the gameplay prototype which is VERY different
 

Jobbs

Banned
I've never heard of this before reading the OP. The OP definitely makes it seem simple, even with my basic programming skills. Is it possible to make the game look good and everything too?.

If you can make the art then you can make something look pretty good, sure. That's not to say it's not without its limitations, but if you work within them you can do cool stuff.



This is from my game, which I'm using Stencyl to make. I've got some simple shaders going, I've got tons of parallax layers scrolling, various particle type effects I've made, etc.
 
hot

but I want the boss to be bigger

BIGGER!
Thanks!

There will be. We have enemies larger than this boss so that's something. I don't want to spoil one boss that's driving me nuts but he's awesome and hard to rig that is a nod to 2 areas of volumetric space from 2 very popular films. One from the 60s and one from the 10s. Its not a knock off - just the way we designed him to just be able to construct himself. He looks dumb in graybox at the moment but I'll show you when we art him.

Very swish! How are you doing the trail rendering on all the projectiles?
Thank you.

I just attach a trail, set its colors and sorting layer. A few timing, length and size tweaks. Nothing special, tbh.
 

Lautaro

Member
If you can make the art then you can make something look pretty good, sure. That's not to say it's not without its limitations, but if you work within them you can do cool stuff.



This is from my game, which I'm using Stencyl to make. I've got some simple shaders going, I've got tons of parallax layers scrolling, various particle type effects I've made, etc.

Do you have an option to reduce or disable the screen shake? I ask because there's some people that hate it.
 
If you can make the art then you can make something look pretty good, sure. That's not to say it's not without its limitations, but if you work within them you can do cool stuff.



This is from my game, which I'm using Stencyl to make. I've got some simple shaders going, I've got tons of parallax layers scrolling, various particle type effects I've made, etc.

I think I'll try out Stencyl. I can only publish to the web with the free version, but how exactly does that work? I just need to know how I would submit my work for evaluation.

I see you're the creator of Ghost Song. Great looking game! :)

Thanks for the help, by the way.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Do you have an option to reduce or disable the screen shake? I ask because there's some people that hate it.

No.

I think I'll try out Stencyl. I can only publish to the web with the free version, but how exactly does that work? I just need to know how I would submit my work for evaluation.

I see you're the creator of Ghost Song. Great looking game! :)

Thanks for the help, by the way.

I haven't used any export option but the executable in a long time, but if I recall the web version just spits out a SWF file.

and thanks =)
 
Anyone here ever do a heavy SWF vector project in gamemaker before? My next project will be using all vectors but I'm wondering how intensive it can be. My last project used SWF vectors but wasn't heavy using them.
 
Me neither.

Same goes for drop frames although it's not a legit drop frame. When you zip thru enemies there's a split second slowdown that looks like a drop frame but it's just simple time slowing down and coming right back a few frames later. I added this since you regain a tiny bit of energy when you kill with a zip - the slight drop is useful to get your bearings when using multiple chains to cross gaps that you wouldn't be able to otherwise without wasting too much energy. Hit but no kill returns nothing to you.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Me neither.

Same goes for drop frames although it's not a legit drop frame. When you zip thru enemies there's a split second slowdown that looks like a drop frame but it's just simple time slowing down and coming right back a few frames later. I added this since you regain a tiny bit of energy when you kill with a zip - the slight drop is useful to get your bearings when using multiple chains to cross gaps that you wouldn't be able to otherwise without wasting too much energy. Hit but no kill returns nothing to you.

I prefer to make the decisions about how the game is presented. I'm stubborn. I do make concessions on certain things sometimes but mostly i want to control it.
 
edit 2: solved. Thanks ephemeral!

I'm having another Unity problem. As far as I can tell, the issue comes from trying to trigger a state transition while already in another transition. I'm using Animator.SetTrigger to blend between idle, walk and run animations, where I have three triggers named idle, gait and run respectively, and transitions in Mecanim that are triggered by those. idle is triggered when left/right is released, and gait and run are triggered when left/right are pressed or shift is pressed/released.

If I play the game gracefully and allow the full transitions to take place (0.1–0.4s each) then there are no problems. If I play erratically and, for example, stop and start or turn around too quickly, then a bizarre event happens where part of the animation plays out but then the character freezes pose for about a half second before resuming motion. I recorded a clip of the phenomenon. At first I show the animation behaving properly. Then I show it getting stuck:

https://youtu.be/TC-xM7AxxLQ

If it helps, I also have a screenshot of my current mecanim setup. I don't know if this has anything to do with my problem but you'll notice idle, run and gait all link back into themselves. The reason for this is the animations weren't looping, just pausing at the end of the animation cycle.

RlZ10qk.png


edit: okay, I didn't really fix the underlying problem, but this bandaid fix is good enough for now.
Code:
if (anim.IsInTransition(0)) {
    anim.PlayInFixedTime(s, 0, 0f);
} else {
    anim.SetTrigger(s);
}
 
I just downloaded Unity to play around with it a bit. Can anyone point me toward some good Unity resources for 3D / FPS games? I am looking for just some broad Unity specific knowledge.

A lot of the resources I found are out of date (pre 5.0) or also try to teach you C#, and I'm looking for solely Unity information.

Thanks in advanced.
 

ephemeral

Member
I'm having another Unity problem. As far as I can tell, the issue comes from trying to trigger a state transition while already in another transition. I'm using Animator.SetTrigger to blend between idle, walk and run animations, where I have three triggers named idle, gait and run respectively, and transitions in Mecanim that are triggered by those. idle is triggered when left/right is released, and gait and run are triggered when left/right are pressed or shift is pressed/released.

If I play the game gracefully and allow the full transitions to take place (0.1–0.4s each) then there are no problems. If I play erratically and, for example, stop and start or turn around too quickly, then a bizarre event happens where part of the animation plays out but then the character freezes pose for about a half second before resuming motion. I recorded a clip of the phenomenon. At first I show the animation behaving properly. Then I show it getting stuck:

https://youtu.be/TC-xM7AxxLQ

If it helps, I also have a screenshot of my current mecanim setup. I don't know if this has anything to do with my problem but you'll notice idle, run and gait all link back into themselves. The reason for this is the animations weren't looping, just pausing at the end of the animation cycle.




edit: okay, I didn't really fix the underlying problem, but this bandaid fix is good enough for now.
Code:
if (anim.IsInTransition(0)) {
    anim.PlayInFixedTime(s, 0, 0f);
} else {
    anim.SetTrigger(s);
}

If you want to loop animations you can just select them in the 'Project' window and check the 'Loop' checkbox. If they're a part of an fbx file you can select the file and select the 'Animations' tab.

If nothing else, it feels like it lasts too long in that GIF to me. Maybe a shorter shake instead.

I agree with this. I would prefer a less strong shake and/or shorter duration.
 
If you want to loop animations you can just select them in the 'Project' window and check the 'Loop' checkbox. If they're a part of an fbx file you can select the file and select the 'Animations' tab.

Oh, that makes sense. It doesn't fix the main problem but it makes looping animations easier. Thanks! :)
 
And the 'Has exit time' is not checked? Are you sure the trigger is set when it should?

Correct, has exit time is unchecked on all of the transitions, and it only bugs out when I set a trigger during one of the transitions. Otherwise everything works perfectly.

So I don't know. It could just be a bug with the way Spine animations are handled.
 

ephemeral

Member
Correct, has exit time is unchecked on all of the transitions, and it only bugs out when I set a trigger during one of the transitions. Otherwise everything works perfectly.

So I don't know. It could just be a bug with the way Spine animations are handled.

You could use a bool for the transition instead, that would work I think.
 
You could use a bool for the transition instead, that would work I think.

Sorry, that's a good idea, but I already tried that too. It works exactly the same: flawlessly if I let the transitions play out in full each time, but broken up if I try to interrupt a transition with another.
 

ephemeral

Member
Sorry, that's a good idea, but I already tried that too. It works exactly the same: flawlessly if I let the transitions play out in full each time, but broken up if I try to interrupt a transition with another.

I'm out of guesses then. It's hard to debug something without the material.

Btw I've never had to set any interruption source, maybe there's a bug with that function?
 
I'm out of guesses then. It's hard to debug something without the material.

Btw I've never had to set any interruption source, maybe there's a bug with that function?

Huh, that's solved it completely. I just reset all the transition interruption sources to none. I don't remember why I set it in the first place, assuming I did it to try to fix something else that was broken. All I know is that if one of them is set to Next State then all of the other ones have to be too or it breaks in other ways.

Thank you so much for troubleshooting this with me! ♥
(and sorry everyone else for cluttering up the page)
 

ephemeral

Member
Huh, that's solved it completely. I just reset all the transition interruption sources to none. I don't remember why I set it in the first place, assuming I did it to try to fix something else that was broken. All I know is that if one of them is set to Next State then all of the other ones have to be too or it breaks in other ways.

Thank you so much for troubleshooting this with me! ♥
(and sorry everyone else for cluttering up the page)

Glad it worked :). I have ran into a couple of weird bugs myself and I know how frustrating it can be to debug something wrong on their part.
 

Burt

Member
I don't chip into this thread all too often because I'm generally pretty hesitant to show WIP stuff, but I'm close to launching my Kickstarter and would love to get as many eyes on it as possible beforehand for some brutally honest criticism, so, if you've got a few minutes:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/954260789/2016916827?token=f1a1cf60

I still have a ton of stuff on my to-do list regarding replacing old media and cutting down on my generally wordy style (and yeah, I know the difference between 'capital' and 'capitol', but you know, "write drunk, edit sober"), but the overall form is there and I figure that the earlier I hear about any problems, the better. Any and all feedback would be tremendously appreciated.
 

Mafusto

Member
Very swish! How are you doing the trail rendering on all the projectiles?

An other option is to keep an array of positions and draw the same object/simplified object with color and alpha based on the position of the list. I.e. alpha = 1-i where i is your loop variable. The trail in the gif also highers the blue value based on the position of the list.
 

adixon

Member
I don't chip into this thread all too often because I'm generally pretty hesitant to show WIP stuff, but I'm close to launching my Kickstarter and would love to get as many eyes on it as possible beforehand for some brutally honest criticism, so, if you've got a few minutes:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/954260789/2016916827?token=f1a1cf60

I still have a ton of stuff on my to-do list regarding replacing old media and cutting down on my generally wordy style (and yeah, I know the difference between 'capital' and 'capitol', but you know, "write drunk, edit sober"), but the overall form is there and I figure that the earlier I hear about any problems, the better. Any and all feedback would be tremendously appreciated.

Whoa, didn't look into the details of the kickstarter such as rewards, but I just want to say: I really, really want to play that game! It looks amazinggg!
 
I prefer to make the decisions about how the game is presented. I'm stubborn. I do make concessions on certain things sometimes but mostly i want to control it.
I agree.

I would look into it. Besides general annoyance, there's epilepsy and motion sickness to consider.
I dunno. Its not like this crazy sequence of flashing stuff or anything else that happens so fast it turns the image to mud. Anyone can be annoyed at anything in a game from bloom, screen effects, color, animations, music, SFX, etc. Picking something out like a shake or other effect feels like picking it out of a hat, tbh. Damn near every game has some sort of shake for effect. Even card games.

I think it gets noticed a lot more in 2D space thanks to a fixed orthographic camera where you are moving fairly smoothly 99% of the time whereas 3D space you are already moving all over the place so jarring motions seem to fit right in with the standard sway, bob, etc. You're used to seeing the camera constantly move in those cases.

You can argue that because of that it's more accepted practice or because of all the other stuff it fits in better but a shake is a shake. People complain about everything. All you can do is make your game.
 

Vanguard

Member
Hoping to have a playable short demo this weekend. Though will be crunching like mad to get it done. Worse comes to worse, screenshot saturday!

Also curious what Unity is going to show/do at GDC (their event is today at 9am pst I think?) Someone kept bringing up that 5.4 is meant to hit tomorrow, beta 10 was yesterday and no RC in sight? Unity staff members keep stating to keep an eye on GDC and that they have a plan that will become clear at GDC, so defo interested!
 

correojon

Member
I agree.


I dunno. Its not like this crazy sequence of flashing stuff or anything else that happens so fast it turns the image to mud. Anyone can be annoyed at anything in a game from bloom, screen effects, color, animations, music, SFX, etc. Picking something out like a shake or other effect feels like picking it out of a hat, tbh. Damn near every game has some sort of shake for effect. Even card games.

I think it gets noticed a lot more in 2D space thanks to a fixed orthographic camera where you are moving fairly smoothly 99% of the time whereas 3D space you are already moving all over the place so jarring motions seem to fit right in with the standard sway, bob, etc. You're used to seeing the camera constantly move in those cases.

You can argue that because of that it's more accepted practice or because of all the other stuff it fits in better but a shake is a shake. People complain about everything. All you can do is make your game.
I think it looks good, but maybe you could try smoothing the shake effect a bit? Instead of randomly moving the camera around, I´m using a sin() function to move the camera vertically, reducing the amplitude in every frame, something like this:
if (t>shakeSpeed){
camera.y = camera.y0 + shakeAmplitude*(t/tMax)*sin(t);
t-= shakeSpeed;
}
Just set t=tMax to start shaking, and play with the values of tMax and amplitude to adjust the shaking to your liking. You could do the same for the x-axis if you want the camera to move in that axis as well, maybe using different settings or a different t variable to disconnect horizontal and vertical shaking. You can see the vertical shaking in action in this short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEJDXj523I
I don´t know if it can be fully appreciated, but the impression I get when testing it is that it´s really smooth, it feels great when playing :)
 
Hoping to have a playable short demo this weekend. Though will be crunching like mad to get it done. Worse comes to worse, screenshot saturday!

Also curious what Unity is going to show/do at GDC (their event is today at 9am pst I think?) Someone kept bringing up that 5.4 is meant to hit tomorrow, beta 10 was yesterday and no RC in sight? Unity staff members keep stating to keep an eye on GDC and that they have a plan that will become clear at GDC, so defo interested!

I really hope they decide to focus on performance and stability. It seems like Unity has been taking a very "Flavour of the month" approach over the last year.

"Hey guys, we've got VR too!"

"Great... How about finishing up the WebGL support that you started. You know, seeing as how that the web player is totally dead and redundant now."

"-Sorry, what?"

This seems to be an unfortunately common occurrence in Unity's development. They start something and then leave it half-complete because something new and shiny has come out that all the press are talking about. Oh well...
 
I think it looks good, but maybe you could try smoothing the shake effect a bit? Instead of randomly moving the camera around, I´m using a sin() function to move the camera vertically, reducing the amplitude in every frame, something like this:

Just set t=tMax to start shaking, and play with the values of tMax and amplitude to adjust the shaking to your liking. You could do the same for the x-axis if you want the camera to move in that axis as well, maybe using different settings or a different t variable to disconnect horizontal and vertical shaking. You can see the vertical shaking in action in this short video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEJDXj523I
I don´t know if it can be fully appreciated, but the impression I get when testing it is that it´s really smooth, it feels great when playing :)
I actually had the camera move between positions my first go but it looked almost the same with speed. 99% of my shakes are a few frames and relatively tight. The explosion at the end is a longer shake that increases intensity over a few frames. You won't see shakes like that while playing.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I really hope they decide to focus on performance and stability. It seems like Unity has been taking a very "Flavour of the month" approach over the last year.

"Hey guys, we've got VR too!"

"Great... How about finishing up the WebGL support that you started. You know, seeing as how that the web player is totally dead and redundant now."

"-Sorry, what?"

This seems to be an unfortunately common occurrence in Unity's development. They start something and then leave it half-complete because something new and shiny has come out that all the press are talking about. Oh well...

I mean... in fairness, they've been the go to engine for VR since DK1, and Google entirely deprecating NSAPI was pretty much outside their control.

The only thing on their roadmap I genuinely don't understand their focus on is their Director cutscene tools, but they've been pretty consistent with apparently wanting to make 3D movies in Unity for awhile now, so *shrug*
 
I mean... in fairness, they've been the go to engine for VR since DK1, and Google entirely deprecating NSAPI was pretty much outside their control.

The only thing on their roadmap I genuinely don't understand their focus on is their Director cutscene tools, but they've been pretty consistent with apparently wanting to make 3D movies in Unity for awhile now, so *shrug*

The VR thing was just an example more than anything. (And on a personal note, I think VR is just a fad and won't really take off so I get extra grumpy. But you can quote me on this if I'm wrong :p)

As for the deprication, the issue I take with it is that they knew it was coming for a long time beforehand, but never made any real strides to offer a suitable alternative. They essentially just left one of their platforms to die. What they have right now as a replacement just isn't up to scratch.

And that's just one example. Look at the 2D support. It's kinda there, but is missing pretty fundamental (or incredibly useful) features such as tilemaps and masks that are now not even listed with an estimate timeframe. I find this extra annoying, since that "Unity 2D" was another big feature that they wanted to push out a couple of years ago, and again just seems as though it has been left in the dust because something newer and flashier came along.

I love the engine, don't get me wrong, but I do question the direction that the company takes sometimes.
 

anteevy

Member
We'll release Ballhalla's final alpha demo later this week on Steam, including 4 levels + a rush mode with highscores to test Steam Leaderboards integration.

Here are a few keys if anyone wants to try it out already (and give feedback). Quote to reveal (I hope I'm doing this right):











Maybe one of you can beat my time? :p
 

LordRaptor

Member
I somewhat agree, because a lot of new features arrive so hot they're actually broken (for example when they introduced drop down menus in their last major patch its internal code was using time.deltatime so they broke entirely if you were using timescale=0 to pause the game, as most people do) but I think Google killing off Webplayer isn't really their fault and I'm pretty confident that VR is worth supporting.

Personally I'd really like them to get their Mono implementation up to date (but there's market forces conspiring against them there too - they literally have to get IL2CPP done first, and they have to do that because Apple decided they want their own standards and IOS is a significant target platform for them).
Stuff like visual scripting I guess would be a feature add, but AFAICS anyone who really wants visual scripting should just bite the bullet and buy Playmaker

e:
what I would REALLY like them to do is hire someone whose full time job is documentation upkeep and maintenance, so everything in the manual is correct, any deprecated commands link to the new equivalents, and every command is both fully explained and contains a code snippet showing best usage
 
e:
what I would REALLY like them to do is hire someone whose full time job is documentation upkeep and maintenance, so everything in the manual is correct, any deprecated commands link to the new equivalents, and every command is both fully explained and contains a code snippet showing best usage

I second that notion. Their documentation for the new implementation of the SceneManager (Which is supposed to replace the Application.Load shenanigans) is just terrible!
 

snarge

Member
The VR thing was just an example more than anything. (And on a personal note, I think VR is just a fad and won't really take off so I get extra grumpy. But you can quote me on this if I'm wrong :p)

As for the deprication, the issue I take with it is that they knew it was coming for a long time beforehand, but never made any real strides to offer a suitable alternative. They essentially just left one of their platforms to die. What they have right now as a replacement just isn't up to scratch.

And that's just one example. Look at the 2D support. It's kinda there, but is missing pretty fundamental (or incredibly useful) features such as tilemaps and masks that are now not even listed with an estimate timeframe. I find this extra annoying, since that "Unity 2D" was another big feature that they wanted to push out a couple of years ago, and again just seems as though it has been left in the dust because something newer and flashier came along.

I love the engine, don't get me wrong, but I do question the direction that the company takes sometimes.

VR, fad or not (I might be with you on that) is purely them keeping up with competition and actually listening to consumers. Not YOU, the consumer, but everyone else. And every engine does this. I can't really fault them for keeping up with competition and listening to customers...it's what they should be doing. Ideally, they should be doing everything at once! But even with the resources Unity has, it's tough to get things working properly.

Imagine developing games pre smart phones, and the iPhone comes out. I remember engines I was using back then (Torque2D!) running to support iOS. I was like "Why not fix your shit first?". I had firsthand experience with the developers of Torque and yeah...when your community is screaming one thing, it's hard to hear the more nuanced complaints.

Unfortunately, with Unity, these things can take a lot time. Remember the big GUI overhaul? I remember every update between the announcement and the actual release. It took forever. Best advice I can give is to just bypass waiting for fixes from them. nGUI was the go-to GUI solution a few years ago. I believe 2D Toolkit is the improved 2D solution. I think it even has tilemaps?
 
Unfortunately, with Unity, these things can take a lot time. Remember the big GUI overhaul? I remember every update between the announcement and the actual release. It took forever. Best advice I can give is to just bypass waiting for fixes from them. nGUI was the go-to GUI solution a few years ago. I believe 2D Toolkit is the improved 2D solution. I think it even has tilemaps?

Yea, I use TK2D, and have done for quite some time. I was just using the 2D implementations as an example. I get what you're saying though. They need to stay relevant, yes, but there are fairly alarming things that seem to get left by the wayside (Mono, as one example. But I understand that the stunted progress on that is not entirely their fault.) Im aware they're also not the only company that does this, but that doesn't make it any less frustrating.
 

LordRaptor

Member
I was going to link a particularly egregious example of the manual, but its been updated as of just last week, so it looks like someones been through a lot of the pages and updated them prior to tomorrows release - looks like you can expect some fairly major WebGL improvements too, as it looks like Webplayer is being fully deprecated for all platforms with this release
 

KOCMOHABT

Member
Added some spring joints, so i can connect truck and trailer.

I wonder if it's worth writing a true 3d physics instead of just a 2D one with height check overall. Game is strategy, cars can jump if driven over a bump.

W6f1bD4.gif
 
I'm almost certain many features people want are on the back burner simply because solutions already exist or you can write your own. That's a strong point with Unity is the ability to extend.

On the flip side there are devs like me who won't use 3rd party tools so I just write my own but would like native support and better support for a lot of features.

I agree i'd like to see more basic features come quicker and agree the manual sucks.
 

TheKroge

Neo Member
kcaWHPO.jpg


Here's an example of one piece of diplomacy in Falling Stars: War of Empires. Planets can either be bartered with, which gives a big immediate bonus at the cost of not exploiting their resources every turn, or you can conquer them, destroy your relations with them but gain resources every round.

The kicker: Every planet has its own ties to the galaxy. These allies and enemies will treat you differently if you conquer or barter. If you barter, their allies will give you bonus barters, extra resources, etc, and if you conquer then they may not barter with you at all, or cause an uprising!

The goal here is to create important decisions that are very difficult to min/max so that the depth of strategic impact of every choice is simple to perform, but difficult to master.

The lines you see going out from the planet are their respective allies (green) and enemies (red).
 
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