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GAF lawyers, I need your help

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WordAssassin

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Ok, here's the deal.

From March to November of 2003 I worked for a printing press, Adobe Printing. The woman who owned it was the mom of my ex's ex, named Belle. My ex, Jessica, and I worked for Belle because we're nice people and Belle needed the help. But Belle was always VERY flakey when it came to paying us. I finally got a real job at a theatre and I quit Adobe. Belle still owed me money, but she assured me that she'd pay it when she had it. Jessica quit a while later and she was also still owed money but again, Belle said that she'd pay us when she could. We were fine with that. For a while.

Flash forward two years. It's August 2005 and Jessica calls me to talk about Belle and Adobe. Adobe Printing has now gone bankrupt and Belle has moved to a retirement home. One day she was going to give Jessica an old table of hers, and Jessica said, "You're not going to use this table as a 'I'm taking this out of the money I owe you' right?" Belle responded by saying "Jessica, I'm bankrupt." She then proceeded to tell Jessica that she was considering simply not paying us. Jessica, of course, thought this was way fucked up and called me to make sure I was with her in trying to get our money from Belle.

Fuck yes I was. See, turns out that Belle owes me about $350 and Jessica something around $600, and she apparently has no intent of paying us. We phone battle with Belle, Jessica being the go-between for my Dad and I to Belle. Belle says she'll talk to her lawyer about what she's going to do.

Then sometime last month jessica calls me and tells me Belle has filed us under her bankruptcy and now we're legally not allowed to come after her for our money. WHAT THE FUCK? She claims that she has no money at all. My dad and I counter that she pays for food, gas, and other bills. She says that she sees those as nessessities and that she comes first. This is bullshit. I know that if we go to the government or the Feds that they can take her fucking car and then she'll suddenly have money to pay us.
Also around this time I find out that Belle had signed me as an "Indipendant Contractor" or something so she could get out of paying taxes on my peychecks. (ALL of which I still have the stubs for, AND I have copies of all my hours, as does Jessica.)

So then today I get a phone call from Jessica with an update. Turns out that Belle is going to buy herself an RV and is gonna move to Florida. FUCKING WHAT? She can't pay us our money she LEGALLY OWES US but she can buy a motorhome and move accross the USA? (We live in California)

I am absolutely livid. I want my fucking money, and I want Jessica to get her fucking money, and I want Belle to go down in flames. What she has been doing and is trying to do is dispicable and disgusting.

GAF lawyers or GAF law-knowers, what can I do? Who can I contact, what forms do I need to fill out to take her down? One of my roommates said that since it's been two years, Belle should also have to pay us interest on the money owed. Is this true? If so, how do I go about getting it?

Any help will be GREATLY appreciated. I am sick of this shit and if she thinks she's gonna get aways with it then she has another thing coming. How can I legally land on her with both feet, GAF?
 
Honestly, if that company (Adobe) has legally declared bankruptcy, you most likely have no legal recourse with which to get your money.

Depending how the company was chartered, it could be quite possible (and legal) for the company to go bankrupt and not have any legal reason to pay you while the company's owner is rich enough to buy another jet.

Some companies are chartered in such a way that the assets of the business are entirely seperate from the assets of the proprietor (or investors). Therefore, if the company were to be sued, the suit could not take away the home of the owner.

Can you tell us what type of business it is, such as DBA, LLC, S Corp etc?
 
Diablos said:
GAF lawyers aren't going to help you. You need a real lawyer for this one, I'm afraid.
Click to expand...

Yup, and if you're really lucky they'll end the session with you in the first five minutes with the statement: "Bankcrupt Eh? - Oh dear, forget your money this ones on me, see ya and better luck next time". however a more likely outcome will be him/her umming and ahhing for 30/60 minutes and then finishing off with "Bankcrupt Eh? - Oh dear, forget your money and pay the receptionist on the way out, better luck next time", worst case scenerio will have the lawyer convincing you they can attempt to get your money back (But not warn you that it'll cost 3-5 times what you are owed in legal fees only to fail at doing so).
 
Diablos, I'm not asking anyone to take and solve my case, I'm just asking for some advice - like if I even need a lawyer to take the case, or if it's just forms, or if I can do anything at all.

Shit, I can't find the business card and Google isn't helping. Belle was the sole proprietor of the company... So probably a DBA? Are you serious about us legally not being able to get our money? That is fucked up. She didn't even list us in her bankrupcy until we started making a stink about it, and I know we aren't the only two people she owes money to.

GOD DAMMIT! Fucking bitch...

Ok, so, even if I can't get my money, can I still leagally fuck up her life for being so underhanded? Or do I have to resort to simply breaking her kneecaps?

Thanks for the help so far Darias.

Edit: Seriously Vennt? ARGH! *Goes for his broken axe handle*
 
I'd consult a lawyer.

From what I've read, under the terms of bakruptcy, debts have to be listed and assets sold off to pay for the debts. I'm not sure, but if you make a claim, I think you're entitled to some cents on the dollar ...

And I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on TV.
 
jesus christ its only $350.

if I worked somewhere that went bankrupt and they owed me only that much I'd just let it go under the assumption that they got assraped a lot more than me.

this sounds like more of a personal issue between you and her than a financial one.
 
Disco Stu said:
I'd consult a lawyer.

From what I've read, under the terms of bakruptcy, debts have to be listed and assets sold off to pay for the debts. I'm not sure, but if you make a claim, I think you're entitled to some cents on the dollar ...

And I am not a lawyer. Nor do I play one on TV.
Click to expand...

You don't need to be a rocket scientist to work out the value proposition of earning "Cents on the Dollar" on a $350 debt.

Chalk it up to a learning experience and move on, seriously.
 
slayn said:
jesus christ its only $350.

if I worked somewhere that went bankrupt and they owed me only that much I'd just let it go under the assumption that they got assraped a lot more than me.

this sounds like more of a personal issue between you and her than a financial one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it is a personal issue: she owes me money and she owes Jessica twice what she owes me. I think what she's done and is doing is fucking disgusting and she's a worthless bitch. I don't want to make assumptions about your income level, but $350 and $600+ aren't figures I scoff at and just sweep under the rug, thinking "Better luck next time!" I might not get my money, Jessica might not get hers, but I'm still fucking pissed off my rocker about it.

And the thing is, she didn't get assraped. She let the company slowly crumble around her as she got more and more into debt until she finally just closed the store to avoid all the angry phonecalls. Funny, though, that she has enough money for a down payment on a new house, a plane ticket to Florida, and a fucking mobile home, but she can't find the "scoffable" $900 to pay us back.
 
slayn said:
jesus christ its only $350.

if I worked somewhere that went bankrupt and they owed me only that much I'd just let it go under the assumption that they got assraped a lot more than me.

this sounds like more of a personal issue between you and her than a financial one.
Click to expand...

Yeah, how much time is the $350 for? A week or two? If it's going to cost you more than a couple weeks of aggravation to get the money back, is it worth it?
 
The thing of it is, I signed a contract, I was supposed to get paid. When I wasn't paid, she gave me her word that she would pay me back. Now she's saying she doesn't feel the need to. Not that she can't! That she doesn't feel like it. That infuriates me. It goes beyond just getting the money to me wanting to make her life hell. So yes, giving her shit for weeks on end, even if I get no money out of it, is worthwhile. I'm like that. I want to make her sorry for doing this to us, be it finacially or mentally. And it's not just $350, you guys are forgetting the other half of the story - it's more like $900+.

Anyways, I wanna thank everyone for their replies, even though they're not what I'd like to hear. That is why I made this thread after all, to find out what options I had (if any). Thanks guys.
 
Why did you loan someone that owns a company 900 bucks in the first place (or $350) Doesnt that seem a little shady to you.
 
if its just a personal issue and you don't *need* your $350 or whatever (which, I don't know your financial situation but I can't imagine your daily life being changed by a week's worth of pay) then just be the better person in this. Accept that some people in life are douchebags and walk away from a situation that will only get that much more costly and fucked up than it already is.

Its not about being nice to her, or letting her 'get away with this,' its that the situation will only become worse *for you* if you decide to persue this.

or you can do the juvinile thing and sneak into her motorhome and steal $1000 worth of stuff.
 
Truthfully, $350 would help me a lot right now. And the $600 that she owes Jessica would REALLY help her. I've already accepted that I'm likely not going to get my money, no matter how pissed that makes me. I also want Jessica to ger her money, if even more than I want mine. but whatever.

Also, it's not all about the money, as I said before. It's that I'm owed money, and was given a promise that I would get it. When I give someone my word I keep it, and I expect the same back from others- especially when she HAS the money to pay us, she just doesn't feel the need to. Fuck that.

And, as I said before, it's not wear and tear on me to be after her for the money. It transends the money to me just harrassing her. If I can make her miserable, I'm happy, money or not. The thought of her sitting in her new RV with a smug grin on her face, knowing she got off scott free from taking advantage of two of her FRIENDS makes me livid. But the idea of her having a stroke or heart attack from the stress I'm putting her through gives me an erection.
 
...nothing to say but, damn, she screwed you over. Well if you're a believer of karma, you can hope that she gets hers in the end.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
there's only one way to remedy this situation, and it rhymes with Grape time!
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o9hi0bu1yw.jpg
 
<HandelOnTheLaw mode=ON>
I am not a lawyer, but I listen to one give marginal legal advice on the radio.

The answer depends on if the company is structured as a sole proprietor/partnership or as a corporation/LLC. It also depends on if she's filed for personal bankruptcy, corporate bankruptcy, or both.

sole proprietor/partnership:
Sorry buddy, you're SOL. With sole proprietor/partnership, the company is backed by her personal assets, which means if she's put you on the bankruptcy that's the end of it. You don't get to override a bankruptcy unless you're a federal school loan or a prior legal judgement.

corp/LLC:

If she's filed for both corp and personal bankruptcy, see above.

If ONLY corp bankruptcy, check your contract. If it is between you and HER PERSONALLY, then you can go after her. If it is between you and the company, you're probably screwed but you might be able to hold her to a verbal contract for her to pay you personally. That's probably something a real lawyer would be able to answer for you.
</HandelOnTheLaw>

Nathan
 
Ok... Some off the cuff thoughts. Remember, this is not legal advice at all and I am not your lawyer. You should consult an attorney and should not rely on what I say in any way as legal advice.

Anyways...

A few things. You need to determine if the business or the woman filed bankruptcy. The business may still exist in one form or another. It may have been sold, even if the place you work in doesn't exist still. Someone may have bought all of the assets or trade secrets... If the cororation did not dissolve, they may have bought your debts as well.

If the company was not sold, was not a corporation, was totally owned by the woman, and she declared personal bankruptcy, you will have some problems. Depending on what stage of the bankruptcy she is on, you may not be able to file a claim. You shoud find out what stage of the procedure the bankruptcy is in.

Really, your best hope is that the business was a corp, or if it wasn't that she wasn't the full owner. Best of luck!!
 
$10,000 - ouch, that's larger than any owed to me.

But one guy I get work off STILL owes me £2500, he's owed it to me for over 8 years and once I'd come to accept getting it back was a no-hoper we both got into a circle of ripping each other off mercilessly to the point it was running joke between us.

I've never managed to "get ahead" of him, we're evens except for that original £2500.

We can't avoid each other, the work I'm in is too close knit, and the only way of "moving forward" was to laugh and move on, yet it was the best move, the guy has put over £20,000 of work my way since his original "payment fuck-up" :lol
 
We didn't loan her any money. It was money we earned while working for her that she's yet to pay us.
Click to expand...

I'm not entirely sure, but if it was a corporation that declared bankruptcy, you would probably have a claim to the wages owed before the debt holders (depends on a few things). If you've waited too long though, you'll lose any claim that you would have otherwise had.

If it's a personal bankruptcy and she personally owed it to you, you're probably shit out of luck.
 
If your contact is with a bankrupt entity, you can contact the court/lawyer in charge of discharging the bankrupcy with your claim against assets. Basically this means that once the printing company's assets are liquidated, you will be paid at least a portion of the debt owed.

For instance:

She owes you 350 dollars, and all other entites 750 dollars. Assets are liqudated and after court costs the remaining liquid capital is 500 dollars. Making up 35% of her total debt, you would receive 70 dollars for your trouble, and the debt would be considered discharged. Of course, if she has no assests to be liquidated, you could get 0.07 cents.
 
How was the company structured? If it was a corporation, you have no recourse, if it was a sole propreitorship (likely?) Belle would have to file bankrupcy personally to get out of it... even then you may have a case against her for back wages since her not paying you was illegal and was done prior to the bankrupcy. This isnt my field per se but you and your ex girlfriend arent creditors, and since she never had a loan contract with you, she cant write it off.

Note: I am not a lawyer (we've got a whole department of those for actually filing litigation on behalf of clients for similar situations though), I am however a certified financial planner, so I have gone through alot of BS pertaining to taxes and how to recover money owed by an insolvent company (or how much you are culpable for if a company goes belly up and you are a part owner).
 
Wah, wah, wah. She owes you $350.

The contractor that built our new house ran off with $40,000 and then claimed bankruptcy.

You're out $350. My family lost $40,000 and our house can't be finished properly for a long time.
 
Ecrofirt said:
Wah, wah, wah. She owes you $350.

The contractor that built our new house ran off with $40,000 and then claimed bankruptcy.

You're out $350. My family lost $40,000 and our house can't be finished properly for a long time.
Click to expand...


im sure there are people that have been screwed out of more than $40,000, too. Wah wah wah.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
im sure there are people that have been screwed out of more than $40,000, too. Wah wah wah.
Click to expand...
Dude, that was exactly my point.

In case you missed it what I tried to portray was that there's always someone who's been screwed worse.
 
yea... take the $350 loss. you will not make any money after getting a lawyer. after 3 hours your 350 will be gone. NOT WORTH IT.
 
Ecrofirt said:
Dude, that was exactly my point.

In case you missed it what I tried to portray was that there's always someone who's been screwed worse.
Click to expand...

the vending machine took my dollar yesterday, and i didn't even get any reece's pieces. :(
 
Then sometime last month jessica calls me and tells me Belle has filed us under her bankruptcy and now we're legally not allowed to come after her for our money
Click to expand...

such ownage, guess you and Jess never saw it coming :lol :lol :lol
 
Ninja Scooter said:
the vending machine took my dollar yesterday, and i didn't even get any reece's pieces. :(
Click to expand...
This is a crime against humanity.

Also a crime against humanity is how my girlfriend used to give me so many reece's pieces that I can no longer stomach the taste of them in my mouth.
 
Hold up now, guys. I've said in at least three posts that I've accepted I won't get my money. I've also said at least three times that it's a sum of $900+ unpaid I'm upset about, not JUST my $350.

Secondly, here's what I know about her business: She was partners with some woman who had a company, Lamanating Plus. The other lady wanted out, so Belle took over the company and became sole proprietor of Adobe Printing / Laminating Plus. I'm going to guess that she filed personal bankrupcy, in which case as many of you have pointed out, goodbye $900.

Third, yes it's gone on for two years. There have been SEVERAL times over those two years where the extra money would have been VERY helpfull. We didn't ever just let this sit. Each time I needed money and had to turn to my parents, angry phone calls would be made to Belle, in which case she would give us her word that she was hard at work getting together enough money to pay me back. We've threatened her with legal action before and she'd hemm and haw and this and that and eventually we'd say, "Ok, but you'd better give us the money." and she'd say, "I will." Then, suddenly, she was bankrupt and, well, see my first post.

Fourth: Whatever it was she called me, (Independant contractor, I think) it was so she didn't have to pay taxes on the hours I worked. If I made $100, I got a check for $100, no taxes or anything held back. The thing was, I wasn't an independant contractor. I filled out an application and was hired for a job as a clerk. That, right there, is illegal. (Tax evasion? I dunno.)

Fifth! I know there are people who've been fucked out of more money then me or Jessica. DUH. My dad is one of them. (We actually had to move out of the house I grew up in because someone he did a job for refused to pay him, then tried to make it seem like my dad would go to jail or some shit, [the guy was in with the mayor or something] to get out of paying him. So we couldn't afford our old house and had to move.) I'm not saying, "Wah wah wah, I'm the only person this has happened to, someone make it all better for me." I'm asking, since I, myself, know nothing of this country's legal system, if there IS something I can do. Just as I'm sure you who lost $40,000 did, and you who lost the little L-thing-2,500 did. Since it seems that there is very little I can do to get my money, well, tough shit for me then. That's WHY I MADE THIS THREAD. To find out my options.

Misc: I know hiring a lawyer would demolish my $350 in three hours, that's why I came here to ask if I'd even need to do that. Obviously I don't.
Also, to the person who said that there may be something I can do because the money was owed before the bankruptcy and was, then, illegally not given to me, this is something my mom has pointed out and if people could get over the sum of what I'm owed, I'd like to find out more.

Once again: I've accepted that the $900 is likely a lost cause. As I pointed out thrice before, it's just something that makes me really fucking angry, and I'd now like to focus on causing her such stress over this that she dies.
 
I would think about suing here in small claims court. When you serve her she will have to show up in court to answer the suit. Since she wants to move to Florida, you may be able to settle with her in lieu of her actually having to stick around or come back to go to court. Remember, 98% of cases settle, and if you can somehow force settlement, go for it.
 
If that happened to me, i'd do whatever i could to fuck her over. I'd probably light her on fire while she was asleep.
 
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