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GAF Running Club |OT| - Couch to Marathons, All abilities
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
Red_taiyaki
Member
Yah, it's only a small part of it really. When my ITB flared up last year, I was also working with my sports chiro on PT, got a few massages, elliptical work to compensate for running and additional strength training.
Still, foam rolling seemed to help me the most day-day lol.
The_Inquisitor
Member
So I don't foam roll at all right now. How the heck do I get started. What do I even buy?
You get started by buying a foam roller and foam rolling. There really isn't much to it.
Yeah I've bought one and a knee strap for it. I've got stretches I used to do for it too but it's such a pain. What an annoying part of anatomy
panda-zebra
Member
Here's my best tip so far: Don't kick your rowing machine with a bare foot - this can result in a very painful and swollen purple toe.
Also, don't punch tigers with bare hands.
Duebrithil
Member
This makes sense, but are you sure it wasn't just a matter of using proper kicking form?
panda-zebra
Member
Also, don't punch tigers with bare hands.
This makes sense, but are you sure it wasn't just a matter of using proper kicking form?
Whenever I'm injured in hips/knees my physios (i've been through a couple) always prescribe strengthening excercises (and different types of needles/massages depending on their specialties). I've done the rolling, but can't really feel a difference and since it's both takes too much time and hurts like hell, I've stopped doing it
The_Inquisitor
Member
Well I fucked up the Monday night. Was running in the park and I clipped a park bench while running. It left a nice fist sized bruise on my right quad. That's fine. What worries me is while I was doing hills last night i'm felt a weird twinge where what feels like is between my leg socket and my hip. It's pretty minor and I didn't feel it after about my 5th hill but I hope I only sprained something.
Well it won't feel great, but you can probably Bullshit and finish
slow-twitch
Member
You might remember me from a year back. I had severe overtraining syndrome and I could not do any physical effort. I spent almost a whole year in complete rest from training, it never got better. I started taking anti-depressants and a week later I could run again. I now am firmly into the theory that overtraining syndrome and depression are closely related.
I'm back into it. Building up my base. Currently at 50k/week. All super easy, I don't even check my watch. I should be at around 70k when spring starts. I'll do a very Lydiardesque base: tempo, lots of stride, fartlek on the long. It might take me a year before I get close to what I'm used to. It's ok, I'm in no hurry. It feels so good to run again. I feel stronger every week.
I'm back into it. Building up my base. Currently at 50k/week. All super easy, I don't even check my watch. I should be at around 70k when spring starts. I'll do a very Lydiardesque base: tempo, lots of stride, fartlek on the long. It might take me a year before I get close to what I'm used to. It's ok, I'm in no hurry. It feels so good to run again. I feel stronger every week.
Of course we remember, wb! Overtraining is a bitch. It never got that severe for me, but my body did slowly spiral out of control, until I had to stop any demanding physical activity. I wasn't clinically depressed, but it did coincide with a rough patch at work, and the mood was not so great for a good 8 to 10 months.
Glad that you're back to finding enjoyment out of running!
Glad your enjoying running and long may it continue.
Sometimes i find exercise is the only way to de-stress with life worries - i dont suffer with depression but more anxiety and it does help.
I have a theory that chronic fatigue syndrome are overtraining are related, but I never got to run it by the CFS guys at the university I used to work at.
slow-twitch
Member
Fistwell said:Of course we remember, wb! Overtraining is a bitch. It never got that severe for me, but my body did slowly spiral out of control, until I had to stop any demanding physical activity. I wasn't clinically depressed, but it did coincide with a rough patch at work, and the mood was not so great for a good 8 to 10 months.
Glad that you're back to finding enjoyment out of running!
titch said:
Thanks.
I not exactly sure what I had was clinical depression. I was not diagnosed with it. The doc who prescribed me the antidepressants said that severe OTS looks a lot like depression with the difference that physical effort is almost impossible and mood is not as affected.
Yeah, Fistwell, I think I started going offtrack in a similar way. I ran very hard weeks while working 80h. And I just kept pushing and digging myself deeper. I felt like shit. I could barely sleep. But somehow I was not getting slower, that's all that mattered. When I finally stopped to rest months later it was too late. I wouldn't be able to recover from rest alone.
I know depression and overtraining are related to stress. I don't know enough about CFS but it very well could be. Usually the stress pattern goes like this:
- Your body goes under a stressful stimuli, this starts fight or flight like state for the systems needed.
- Long term maintenance processes are stopped to handle the critical emergency now.
- The stressful stimuli disappears.
- The body returns to normal state. It makes itself a little more efficient on repair, so next time won't be as hard on the body.
But if you keep at it, eventually you reach a point of no return. Your body starts breaking down stuff required to return to normal state in order to keep the system kicking for the current emergency. Now if you start resting it does not help.
I think depending on the specificity of the stress in cause, it messes up the body differently. Depression and OTS appear when your body is unable to return to normal by itself anymore. You burned the house down to survive a stressful event.
It might have to do with down or up-regulation of some neurotransmitters, messed up sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous system, nobody knows. Antidepressants interacts with neurotransmitters, we're not exactly sure how either. Some people responds well to them, some not.
Anyway, let's talk about running now.
The_Inquisitor
Member
Marathoninvestigations.com is a guilty pleasure of mine.
Red_taiyaki
Member
We've all been there. Freaking sucks!
autumnleaf
Member
I would foam roll all down the side of your leg slowly from hip to knee for about 60-90 seconds each side and then again a minute more focused on the hip/lower back area. I would do it once a day.
The secret to beating knee pain though is strengthening your hips/glutes and correcting your form. It's the IT band that hurts but the source is likely your hips. I had knee problems for a couple of years and saw 3 physios. The one that eventually fixed it gave me a bunch of strengthening exercises for my hips/glutes (like one legged squats) and analysed my form and noticed my feet crossed over so were overstretching the side of my leg (so I had to imagine a line in front of me and not letting my feet cross over their side of the line, and making sure I kept my hips level and flat when running and not raising and lowering each side with each stride).
Yeah I've been trying to strengthen my hips- thanks for the help!
The_Inquisitor
Member
Lol. It wasn't meant to be a hyperlink. Thanks!
panda-zebra
Member
How about now?
So about resting heartbeat rate and overtraining...
I've had to lay off running for the past month-ish due to too much work, travel, and stress. I'm slowly getting back into it and things have been different. Used to be, when I was running regularly, my RHB took at least one, if not a cple of days of rest to come back down to normal after even a mild workout. Right now though, the very next morning it seems I'm all set. I've even had two days in a row (OK, so, not super intense efforts, but still) this weekend, and this morning the heart is fine.
So I don't know, and, I understand it's all on a continuous spectrum, and I know I'm well rested right now, but when running regularly, how long is it supposed to take for the heart to go back to normal? I understand it depends on the particular part of the program you're at, the kind of volume you're doing, intensity of the last workouts you've had, general life stress, but, where do you put the threshold between: I'm still recovering OK / I need a week of easy running? If the HB rate never goes down, then, obviously you need the break. But in between that extreme and where I'm at right now, not sure where to place the limit. What's you guys' experience with this?
I've had to lay off running for the past month-ish due to too much work, travel, and stress. I'm slowly getting back into it and things have been different. Used to be, when I was running regularly, my RHB took at least one, if not a cple of days of rest to come back down to normal after even a mild workout. Right now though, the very next morning it seems I'm all set. I've even had two days in a row (OK, so, not super intense efforts, but still) this weekend, and this morning the heart is fine.
So I don't know, and, I understand it's all on a continuous spectrum, and I know I'm well rested right now, but when running regularly, how long is it supposed to take for the heart to go back to normal? I understand it depends on the particular part of the program you're at, the kind of volume you're doing, intensity of the last workouts you've had, general life stress, but, where do you put the threshold between: I'm still recovering OK / I need a week of easy running? If the HB rate never goes down, then, obviously you need the break. But in between that extreme and where I'm at right now, not sure where to place the limit. What's you guys' experience with this?
I should have asked for a day off, my back, my shoulders, my calves are in pain.
Duebrithil
Member
That's an interesting question, and I don't know if there's a lot of research about RHR and its correlation with tiredness/overtraining. I'll have to get back to you on that once I find some published papers. Maybe the Heart Recovery Rate (how long your heartbeat returns to normal after exercise) would be a better indication?
I rely less on RHR (as it's pretty even throughout the week) to decide when to take things easier, and instead focus on real life scenarios: "How did I feel getting to work?", "Do my legs feel heavy when dressing in the morning?", "How's my equilibrium?", etc. Depending on all these factors I decide whether to push a bit more or train more conservatively. If I were to use Resting HR as a metric I'd give it a couple of days to see what trend it had, either increasing or decreasing and adjust accordingly.
Still, if you have a HRM (optical or digital, as in: use your fingers
) you can check your heartrate over the period of one week, while going about your daily life, so you can have a "baseline" to compare it to. Also, if you've been running longer distances lately keep in mind your Vagal tone will have improved, leading to bradycardia and a lower Resting HR.
mdsfx
Member
Oh I forgot about the strap. That thing was a godsend. It's effectiveness is really dependant on how you put it on though (direction, tightness, etc).
Guys,
I feel really good about my running.
After that week off due to the flu I've run 8 times in the last 2 weeks and I'm tracking well for my progress on my C-2-10KM.
Smashrun tells me I ran 46KM in Jan.
I've run 50KM in Feb (it'll end up being 56KM after tomorrow)
Next month I'm going to go for 75-100KM. I'm getting in a good few runs a week right now and the pace feels good. Tuesday is a 'longer' run that's typically hard. Thursday is shorter but slightly pacier. Saturday is an easy 5KM while my daughter does Ballet and then Sunday is my long run.
This seems to work really well for me and I'm enjoying it.
I think a big part of my enjoyment has been finding stuff to listen to to keep me occupied. I used to run to music - and I used to get bored. But now I'm listening to podcasts and they're keeping me entertained on these 45-50 minute runs.
Anyway - really enjoying it.
I feel really good about my running.
After that week off due to the flu I've run 8 times in the last 2 weeks and I'm tracking well for my progress on my C-2-10KM.
Smashrun tells me I ran 46KM in Jan.
I've run 50KM in Feb (it'll end up being 56KM after tomorrow)
Next month I'm going to go for 75-100KM. I'm getting in a good few runs a week right now and the pace feels good. Tuesday is a 'longer' run that's typically hard. Thursday is shorter but slightly pacier. Saturday is an easy 5KM while my daughter does Ballet and then Sunday is my long run.
This seems to work really well for me and I'm enjoying it.
I think a big part of my enjoyment has been finding stuff to listen to to keep me occupied. I used to run to music - and I used to get bored. But now I'm listening to podcasts and they're keeping me entertained on these 45-50 minute runs.
Anyway - really enjoying it.
Some advice please GAF.
I've just started hitting longer distances and today's run was 17.7km which I'm fairly stoked about but I'm concerned that I was pushing myself pretty hard to make it. I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't push myself *too hard* to the point of passing out, but I'm old(ish) and just getting into running late, so the advice I'm looking for please:
I do not want to lug my phone on my runs with me please: as with modern phones the thing is frickin' huge. I have a TomTom GPS watch (a couple of year old "Runner" which was their base model back then) which has served me well, but I'd be willing to upgrade/sidegrade if necessary.
I've just started hitting longer distances and today's run was 17.7km which I'm fairly stoked about but I'm concerned that I was pushing myself pretty hard to make it. I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't push myself *too hard* to the point of passing out, but I'm old(ish) and just getting into running late, so the advice I'm looking for please:
- Strava have this Beacon thing, but I've only just signed up to premium Runkeeper after freeloading for years - does anything else offer the same sort of functionality or should I just accept that I need to switch? Something I can use to alert family of my intended route if I don't make it back within a reasonable time.
- I've seen people with medical / contact bracelets - any recommendations there?
- I need to carry some water with me - there's a bazillion options out there, so I'd appreciate knowing which ones to trust / which ones are lemons
I do not want to lug my phone on my runs with me please: as with modern phones the thing is frickin' huge. I have a TomTom GPS watch (a couple of year old "Runner" which was their base model back then) which has served me well, but I'd be willing to upgrade/sidegrade if necessary.
Hi Richard, how old are we talking (I'm 40), and what kind of intensity are you running at? Can you describe your effort level and feeling of exertion afterwards?Some advice please GAF.
I've just started hitting longer distances and today's run was 17.7km which I'm fairly stoked about but I'm concerned that I was pushing myself pretty hard to make it. I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't push myself *too hard* to the point of passing out, but I'm old(ish) and just getting into running late, so the advice I'm looking for please:
- Strava have this Beacon thing, but I've only just signed up to premium Runkeeper after freeloading for years - does anything else offer the same sort of functionality or should I just accept that I need to switch? Something I can use to alert family of my intended route if I don't make it back within a reasonable time.
- I've seen people with medical / contact bracelets - any recommendations there?
- I need to carry some water with me - there's a bazillion options out there, so I'd appreciate knowing which ones to trust / which ones are lemons
I do not want to lug my phone on my runs with me please: as with modern phones the thing is frickin' huge. I have a TomTom GPS watch (a couple of year old "Runner" which was their base model back then) which has served me well, but I'd be willing to upgrade/sidegrade if necessary.
For distances below semi, you need 0 nutrition. Your glycogen reserves can probably carry you over 30+Km (32 on average, according to the literature). Some water is recommended but a lot of people drink nothing (I never do). Temperature, intensity of effort, humidity, elevation, terrain, and a number of other factors do play a role, but unless you're going up to 30ish K I wouldn't overly worry.
If you're extending mileage, you usually want to do that progressively, to give the body a chance to adapt to the longer distances. When you run longer distances, you typically will feel exhausted at first, but that's not directly related to nutrition or water intake.
In terms of alerting people if a problem arises, I didn't know of any such functionality. Personally, if that was a concern, I'd just stick to areas used by other runners. People do help when they see someone having a problem.
Valkerionseven
Member
Good timing, so there are multiple marathons in my city and we have one next week that I have to help with (on the sidelines not participating) but all the marathon buzz the last 2 months in my area has got me wanting to try it sometime.
What kinds of tips do you guys have for absolute beginners for things like gaining endurance, and what not? I'm not completely inactive but definitely not extended periods of running. (aside from chasing 8 year olds on the playground at work lol)
What kinds of tips do you guys have for absolute beginners for things like gaining endurance, and what not? I'm not completely inactive but definitely not extended periods of running. (aside from chasing 8 year olds on the playground at work lol)
To gain endurance, you just need to run.
If you're starting from scratch, depending on your overall fitness level, I'd say just go out and run a few Km a cple of times a week. See how it feels. And if you can comfortably take it, start increasing distances slowly, week over week. The rule of thumb is +10% distance per week, with an easy week every 4 or 5. But that's bullshit (the 10% part), go with what feels right and keep listening to your body.
There are lots of things that are good for people just getting into running to be mindful of.. Finding decent shoes, being careful with your running form a bit (bad habits form quickly and can be poison), getting enough rest, etc. Don't want to overwhelm you with info right now, but feel free to ask in here if you're curious about some of that stuff.
Some advice please GAF.
I've just started hitting longer distances and today's run was 17.7km which I'm fairly stoked about but I'm concerned that I was pushing myself pretty hard to make it. I'm reasonably certain that I wouldn't push myself *too hard* to the point of passing out, but I'm old(ish) and just getting into running late, so the advice I'm looking for please:
- Strava have this Beacon thing, but I've only just signed up to premium Runkeeper after freeloading for years - does anything else offer the same sort of functionality or should I just accept that I need to switch? Something I can use to alert family of my intended route if I don't make it back within a reasonable time.
- I've seen people with medical / contact bracelets - any recommendations there?
- I need to carry some water with me - there's a bazillion options out there, so I'd appreciate knowing which ones to trust / which ones are lemons
I do not want to lug my phone on my runs with me please: as with modern phones the thing is frickin' huge. I have a TomTom GPS watch (a couple of year old "Runner" which was their base model back then) which has served me well, but I'd be willing to upgrade/sidegrade if necessary.
I use Beacon and wear a RoadID bracelet that has My name, city state, wife's phone number and my mom's phone number.
For water, I am probably the outlier here but I wear a hydration pack. I used a camelbak and recently switched to the Nathan HPL #20. I use a hydration pack because I do a lot of trail races. I went with a large 2L bladder because my races vary between 4-12 hours in length without many water stops. I also have 1L and 1.5L bladders to switch between.
Blah. I think I've finally worked out that my recurring injury is peroneal tendonitis. The spot where that tendon is is exactly right for where I've been feeling pain. Apparently this injury is correlated with tightness of calves and with running at higher speeds.
Time to do some strengthening and loosening up exercises I guess. And slow down. :/
Time to do some strengthening and loosening up exercises I guess. And slow down. :/
Thanks for the response! I'm 45 ("old(ish)" for GAF ;-), and normally feel fine but after yesterday's distance (3km longer that my previous best) I felt very buzzy. It was reasonably warm yesterday (33ºC) so my hydration needs were higher than usual, but then running in that sort of temp isn't unusual in summer, so I should plan for it to happen again. I also sweat very freely normally, so even when it's cooler I'll need to plan for hydration over that distance and longer.
Thanks, I've just ordered a RoadID (I've seen them about, and thought them a great idea!) I'll have a look at those hydration packs, though I reckon I only need 1L or so at the moment, so maybe one of those belt things is the go?
andythinkpad
Member
So I transfered from a busy customer service job to a quiet office position within the same company recently. I got a pretty flexible lunch time and I have been able to run 3 mile or so every day during lunch break. the best part is the job site has a large shower in the bathroom I can wash and change afterward.
For a non young man like me the running feels good. And I can see my stamina has been getting better.
For a non young man like me the running feels good. And I can see my stamina has been getting better.
I think it's normal for most people to feel a little funny after an extended long run, maybe other people can chime in. I (used to, before work took over in the last month) run fairly regularly, and I still get very tired after a longer-than-usual long run. Over 30C is kind of tough on the body too. 45 isnt that old, you're me from 5 years in the future!
Melhisedek
Member
I saw this thread on GAF like million times but never opened it, but today kinda was the right day I guess.
I'm nearing 40 (that sound crazy as I just filled 30 the "other day") and I'm feeling that sedimentary way of living (95% of my wake time is spent sitting) is taking its toll. I'm having pains all over my body and joints and I've gained weight.
When I was 25 I used to run and loved it really. I ran for 2-3 years in pair of old sneakers through the woods and loved it.
So I guess I wanna start it up again. I have a pair of assics from 2-3 years ago, got the cheap, is it ok to run in them or I have to get good gear? (Asking as budget is pretty tight) Also thing is, there is almost no green to run on where I live so only asphalt and concrete. Does that make any difference when choosing shoes?
It is damn rainy, windy and cold here most of the time so what clothes should I go for? Regular stuff gets wet and cold right away.
I really hope I get on with this and not let up, think I really need it...
I'm nearing 40 (that sound crazy as I just filled 30 the "other day") and I'm feeling that sedimentary way of living (95% of my wake time is spent sitting) is taking its toll. I'm having pains all over my body and joints and I've gained weight.
When I was 25 I used to run and loved it really. I ran for 2-3 years in pair of old sneakers through the woods and loved it.
So I guess I wanna start it up again. I have a pair of assics from 2-3 years ago, got the cheap, is it ok to run in them or I have to get good gear? (Asking as budget is pretty tight) Also thing is, there is almost no green to run on where I live so only asphalt and concrete. Does that make any difference when choosing shoes?
It is damn rainy, windy and cold here most of the time so what clothes should I go for? Regular stuff gets wet and cold right away.
I really hope I get on with this and not let up, think I really need it...
Yeah surface makes a big difference, harder ones are tougher on the joints, so it's usually a good idea to go with a bit more cushioning then. Old, worn out shoes can be a problem too. The sole hardens over time. That being said, I think that's gonna have an effect if you do go out and run in those shoes very regularly. I don't think you need to go out and buy new shoes for the first few weeks/months if you're just testing the waters and running say 3 to 4Km a cple of times a week. If you get into it and start running more then yeah, a new pair of running shoes is going to be a useful investment. It doesn't need to be super expensive though. I've seen decent enough shoes in stores for 60-70 (previous year models on sale).
Melhisedek
Member
Thats great to know,
how about clothes? What do you wear when running in rain and wind?
how about clothes? What do you wear when running in rain and wind?