DarkJediKnight
Member
It's not clear. It's never mentioned. Not even once. Just look at the amount of people here who missed it. We have to guess this shit, yet get 15 min of Arya and Sansa bullshit.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
- Start date
It's not clear. It's never mentioned. Not even once. Just look at the amount of people here who missed it. We have to guess this shit, yet get 15 min of Arya and Sansa bullshit.
Again, guess is a weird word to use in this context. There's multiple shots of them using the weapons and there's one where The Hound throws the hammer on the ground and brings out his dragonglass weapon. Seriously, just re-watch the scene with this in mind and you will see that their weapons were in plainview.
People keep saying this but he never actually died.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDUNOzE2_zc
A guy stopping a poison and bringing back a guy from a coma isn't the same as a mythological monster who brings skeletons back to life being actually real.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I'm fine with it not being clear. Game of Thrones has been a little blatant with things lately for the audience's sake. I don't want a character saying "It's a good thing we brought some dragon glass with us" or "You sure these dragon glass weapons will work on them?" etc. etc.
I thought the action was really well directed - the shifts between very intimate and wide shots of destruction. Plus the dragonfire meets frozen lake effects.
Of course, it was bound to be an incredible episode, full of emotion and epic battles, it was directed by Alan Taylor! Who also directed:
I'm so sorry.
I've never clicked spoiler tags in such a flabbergasted rage
Imperfected
Member
I would have been okay with [AUDIENCE REMINDER TEXT] as long as they found a way to fit it into a pithy character moment. I do get a bit annoyed when it's done in a completely naked/unpolished way. ("Don't forget, only dragonglass and valyrian steel can kill the white walkers!")
Oh no, showrunners expect the audience to pay a tiny bit of attention to what's happening on screen. They should have known better.
Vincent Alexander
Member
Well, and I just thought...maybe a simple solution is to have one of them tell Gendry to leave his hammer behind. "That'll be no use to you North of the wall" or something. Then someone hands him a dragon glass weapon. They don't have to say it is dragon glass or anything. We'd put it together.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
I know a lot of people want the Clegane Bowl in the finale, and I do want one eventually, but if it is done as trial by combat over who gets the crown, then it would be so freaking stupid.
Realistically, Dany would never ever agree to deciding the crown by combat when she has the upper hand with her forces.
So if it happens in the finale, I badly hope they come up with a clever way that makes sense for it to happen, because I really don't want the previous 7 remaining episodes to just be fan service.
Realistically, Dany would never ever agree to deciding the crown by combat when she has the upper hand with her forces.
So if it happens in the finale, I badly hope they come up with a clever way that makes sense for it to happen, because I really don't want the previous 7 remaining episodes to just be fan service.
Imperfected
Member
Yeah, or you have a scene where Tormund hoists his big obsidian poleaxe monstrosity and says to Thoros: "Y'may as well fuck the dead men to death with the half a cock you've got as use that twig."
And then Thoros could light his sword up and reply: "The Lord of Light welcomes all men I send him, living and dead."
You know, just give me a character moment at least on par with Tormund learning about dick.
Yeah. Or just have the Hound bitch about having to use 'em.
I find that most problems in Game of Thrones can be solved by having the Hound curse for a few lines.
People here miss loads of shit. You literally see them pull out dragonglass weapons.
Imperfected
Member
It's basically a dialogue Deus Ex Machina. And I love it.
ComputerBlue
Member
Hell no...People should use their eyes, then they wouldn't need everything laid out and explained to them.
Nothing worse than characters narrating their own actions for the viewers.
Very disappointing episode. The action didn't work for me at all. Whenever you get a handful of men versus an entire army, you'll need to make up excuses for them not to bite it at every turn. That's exactly what happened here, including the heroes bringing along fodder so we at least get to see someone die.
Secondly, if they insist on doing this romance between Jon and Dany, be more subtle about it. They are pushing it in our faces now, and the two actors still are too stoic to make the scenes feel heartfelt. I am supposed to feel something watching those two, but I really just don't. A more subtle approach would maybe work to circumvent that if they really can't carry those scenes.
I was, however, hoping for an undead dragon, and I was glad to see it being delivered unto my expectations. Seeing it die still sucked though.
5/10
Secondly, if they insist on doing this romance between Jon and Dany, be more subtle about it. They are pushing it in our faces now, and the two actors still are too stoic to make the scenes feel heartfelt. I am supposed to feel something watching those two, but I really just don't. A more subtle approach would maybe work to circumvent that if they really can't carry those scenes.
I was, however, hoping for an undead dragon, and I was glad to see it being delivered unto my expectations. Seeing it die still sucked though.
5/10
Vincent Alexander
Member
Do I look like a damn dragonglass weaponsmith to you?! I put all my points in Cooking.
Considering who is directing the finale, I don't want any action in the finale. Save cool fights for directors who can do them justice. #BringBackAlexGraves
Hell, the Hound literally throws down the hammer when he sees it doesn't work and pulls out dragon glass weapons. For all the talk of bad writing people are missing a ton of shit they shouldn't be.
The Artisan
Member
you know there's one thing that gets me thinking when Jorah says to Jon "...your children after you." I think at that moment Jon never even contemplated his future. All he's been laser focused on is the winter war. He never at all thought about having a family, or a bright side to all this ice - not until Jorah conforms hope to him.
shinra-bansho
Member
I thought dragonglass was to kill white walkers not ice wights.
I checked the stats and they apparently do a blanket +25% damage to undead. There's just an additional property on White Walkers where they can ONLY be killed in battle if the killing blow is a dragonglass weapon.
Imperfected
Member
It is. Though I guess it might work on wights, too?
It's not strictly necessary for wights, though, since you can burn them or honestly just smash 'em up real good and then taunt them for all eternity.
The Artisan
Member
the zombie bear didn't immediately drop dead when it was lit.
They undo whatever WW magic binds the corpses. In fact I feel like all you need against the WWs is a large chariot with a horizontal rotating wheel tipped with dragonglass. Then you can just mow over the zombies.
Imperfected
Member
I mean it takes a while to kill a bear by immolation. There's a lot of bear to burn.
And admittedly while it's burning you have to deal with a zombie bear that's on fire, which could be a slight problem.
Nope, but to be fair that was a big ass bear. Jorah putting it down with the surgical strike from the dragonglass dagger was a bit comical after it took Tormunds axe.
Where my ice spiders Old Nan?!?!?!
The Artisan
Member
but the bear is already dead, dude. it's a zombie. and not a traditional zombie (actually, it is more like the original traditional zombie) that wants to eat you, it's a magical zombie that is a husk for an evil villain. and as a magical creature, one of the things that defeats it is fire. later in the episode, Beric takes down zombies with one hit slashes of the fire blade he's got. Benjen does the same later in the episode, and we've seen in previous episodes how zombies deactivate as soon as they get hit with fire. but this zombie bear needed a hit from dragonglass from immediate deactivation.
it was a spectacle to watch I give you that, but it confused me.
theignoramus
Member
HBO names the dragon killed in a snippet they uploaded on their youtube page.
The Artisan
Member
that's what I was thinking too. Jorah handing Longclaw back to Jon was his blessing and approval to him being Dany's future husband. I'm surprised he forfeited trying to go after her though. Did he feel a glimmer of hope when Jon was left behind for dead?
Fuck spiders.
The fire just does damage. If a hit wouldn't kill a bear normally it won't kill a zombie bear.
The Artisan
Member
huh? maybe I misunderstood your post then?
ComputerBlue
Member
We saw last night how the wights dropped when Jon killed the WW. We also saw them stop once they started falling in the water, and start back up when they realized it froze over. We also saw several of them try to save their hostage wight.
There is definitely more intelligence to them than we think, they might not act on their own and it might be delayed, or minimal because they could be controlled by white walkers. but I don't think it would be as easy as lining them up and chopping them down.
Could be why we always see the NK and WW's in the distance watching over, as if they're playing chess with every little wight on the battlefield.
The Artisan
Member
the bear became a zombie through magic though, and fire undoes the spell. it's worked out for everything else except this zombie bear as far as I can remember.
Everything else was hit with the sort of fire attack that would normally kill it.
The Artisan
Member
everything else just dropped dead as soon as they were touched by fire. all the men that Dany burned 2 episodes ago didn't all drop dead, some of them were running around still lit up. but the zombie from early in the story at Castle Black dropped dead when it was lit iirc, same with all the rest of the zombies in this episode.
The Artisan
Member
I didn't post it, Imperfected did.
ohhh fuck! what the hell did I do there?! i really messed it up lol
edit: i am still confused...
The wrights in the episode got burned to death by dragons, which as we've previously seen turn regular dudes into ash. Their armor wasn't set on fire, they were scorched. I feel like you're making this whole thing more complicated than it needs to be.
Err, no. In this episode alone there's a wight on fire running to the captured wight. The fire isn't necessarily an instant KO.
They kept running at Jon single file, and have no concept of ranged weapons (well the NK does but not the rank and file). I think their "intelligence" is greatly exaggerated.
She doesn't even know the hound so like if thats what happens and she picks him.....fucking lol
The Artisan
Member
Some of the zombies got burned by Beric's sword. Not all of them were lit because of the dragons. And not all of the people the dragons lit turned to ash, some of them were on fire for the last seconds of their lives.
This was the second time I mentioned Beric's flaming blade, it's not complicated because it's confusing. Why one zombie bear doesn't deactivate immediately after being lit on fire but a stab of dragonglass does it.
The Artisan
Member
oh that's right, i forgot about that one
chicko1983
Member
all they had to do is when Jon and Jorah were talking about the sword is have Jorah say something like: "you keep the sword, I am not worthy of holding it. Besides, I have these dragonglass daggers, lets hope they work like we were told"
Back at the Red Keep
Jaime: Wait, so you let this meeting happen?
Cersei: Yes, duh. We give them this truce, it allows us to rebuild our forces, and then we fuck them like daddy would.
Jaime: ...
Cersei: We do this not just for us, but for this *rubs belly*
Jaime:
Later at Dragonstone
Tyrion: Kill you? She's going to torture your ass first lol
Dany: I'm guessing she's already plotting how to fuck us up?
Tyrion: My sister? Oh hell ya. She's probably putting the finishing touches on her plan right now.
Dany: Do we have a plan ourselves?
Tyrion: Look, we can't stoop to their way of thinking, it's bad. Also, we need to think like they would, so we could know what their moves are, and then plan accordingly.
Dany: But you just told me she'd more than likely be planning some sort of trap for us. Why aren't we making a plan to deal with that?
Tyrion: Seriously, on a more important note, who is going to succeed you?
Jaime: Wait, so you let this meeting happen?
Cersei: Yes, duh. We give them this truce, it allows us to rebuild our forces, and then we fuck them like daddy would.
Jaime: ...
Cersei: We do this not just for us, but for this *rubs belly*
Jaime:
Later at Dragonstone
Tyrion: Kill you? She's going to torture your ass first lol
Dany: I'm guessing she's already plotting how to fuck us up?
Tyrion: My sister? Oh hell ya. She's probably putting the finishing touches on her plan right now.
Dany: Do we have a plan ourselves?
Tyrion: Look, we can't stoop to their way of thinking, it's bad. Also, we need to think like they would, so we could know what their moves are, and then plan accordingly.
Dany: But you just told me she'd more than likely be planning some sort of trap for us. Why aren't we making a plan to deal with that?
Tyrion: Seriously, on a more important note, who is going to succeed you?
The Artisan
Member
i'm not sure i understand what the argument is for not mentioning being equipped with dragonglass, the previous episode showed scenes of minecraft in the obsidian cave and it showed Jorah loading the boat with what presumably was dragonglass weapons to bring along for the mission
Vincent Alexander
Member
Old Gods, no. No no no no
I really don't think we need a bunch of obvious dialogue drawing attention to the dragonglass weapons. What would be good is just to have a better look at them and have better directed action. That aside, I think the real missed opportunity is that they have Gendry, who is a blacksmith, who was recruited into the story for ????????? reasons, and instead of having him put his blacksmith experience to good logical use they used him as a bonus party member and a messenger boy. Why? Once he arrived at Dragonstone, there should have been a makeshift forge where they were already using the mined dragonglass to make weapons, and Gendry should help out there. He can still join the mission after, but that would have shown that there is serious thought put into the planning of the mission and also naturally lead the audience to understand that the party is going to be well armed.
Imperfected
Member
I think the way you want fire to work on the wights would be visually confusing for the viewer.
Like if fire just instantly unraveled the magic that keeps them ambulatory you would have weird situations where a wight's hand catches on fire and it just crumbles into a pile of dust or something, which works in a sort of goofy Ghostbusters sort of way, but probably doesn't match the visual language of GoT very well.
There's a natural visual expectation that the thing's going to burn up the way a thing would burn up, just maybe that: 1) it's going to go up like kindling even though it's probably wet, cold, and missing most of the traditionally flammable parts (check), and 2) it won't be able to douse the flames through normal means (probably check?).
Like if fire just instantly unraveled the magic that keeps them ambulatory you would have weird situations where a wight's hand catches on fire and it just crumbles into a pile of dust or something, which works in a sort of goofy Ghostbusters sort of way, but probably doesn't match the visual language of GoT very well.
There's a natural visual expectation that the thing's going to burn up the way a thing would burn up, just maybe that: 1) it's going to go up like kindling even though it's probably wet, cold, and missing most of the traditionally flammable parts (check), and 2) it won't be able to douse the flames through normal means (probably check?).