To be fair that was not Jon's idea but Tyrion's.
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Game of Thrones *NO BOOK DISCUSSION* |OT2| Season 7 - [Read the OP]
- Thread starter Cornballer
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To be fair that was not Jon's idea but Tyrion's.
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
They need men and supplies.
WinterIsComing
Member
So Bran already knows everything? That's my take on the chaos ladder comment to Littlefinger.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
This already happened 7+ months ago.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
Not necessarily. He said earlier this season that for now he can only see fragments so he has seen the chaos is a ladder speech but that doesn't mean he knows all of LFs secrets.
Hmm, I think you're on to something.
TimeEffect
Member
Edit: Nvm
I'm sure this must have been discussed a few dozen times ITT, but it's starting to seem like all the "main" characters have plot armour, even those who are simply well known now.
The danger this show thrived on seems to have been lost. Jaime surviving the dragon by just falling in the water a few feet away from it and being left to float away was the moment it clicked, but I've been noticing it more and more.
Feels like the show's lost something important...
The danger this show thrived on seems to have been lost. Jaime surviving the dragon by just falling in the water a few feet away from it and being left to float away was the moment it clicked, but I've been noticing it more and more.
Feels like the show's lost something important...
CGwizz
Member
yep the intire script leaked, its a shame to be honest
I want them to do like netflix and release all episodes right away but will never hapen ...
SirMossyBloke
Member
My manager spoiled episode 6 for us at work by posting a single picture in our work chat. Fucking hell 
DarkJediKnight
Member
Hey guys,
What happened to that awesome bowman from the Lord of Light brotherhood? I don't recall if he died.
What happened to that awesome bowman from the Lord of Light brotherhood? I don't recall if he died.
One Eyed Willy
Member
I know what you mean but I think they all have purpose now until the end, at which point everyone will die lol. If I had to guess, the show creatures know this and will probably kill off 1 main character before this season ends to keep it fresh. Then string it out next season and murder them all.
DarkJediKnight
Member
Yep. Jamie or Bronn should have died. The plot armor is becoming too obvious.
CGwizz
Member
She has probably THE best weapon , you forgetting she have a ton of wildfire and a Bronn.
DarkJediKnight
Member
3 dragons flying from Dragonstone, basically a 2 days journey and melting the Red Keep to the ground with Cersei in it.
She has no weapons that can beat the dragons. Jamie made that very clear.
Dragons are game changers.
Does Cersei still have enough wildfire though? Considering the giant explosion of last season, you'd think she used most of it.
I'd agree that Jaime & Bronn had ridiculous plot armor on Episode 4, but there was still a few deaths this season like Olenna, a few Sand Snakes(although no one cared for them) and Sam's father. But that's another case of not caring if he dies lol.
Yeah...so i guess only Olenna so far. Let's wait until the next 2 episodes before saying no one important died this season, I bet that's where shit will happen.
I'd agree that Jaime & Bronn had ridiculous plot armor on Episode 4, but there was still a few deaths this season like Olenna, a few Sand Snakes(although no one cared for them) and Sam's father. But that's another case of not caring if he dies lol.
Yeah...so i guess only Olenna so far. Let's wait until the next 2 episodes before saying no one important died this season, I bet that's where shit will happen.
TimeEffect
Member
I agree with you, but the problem isn't plot armour, it's really the execution of it.
Don't have an issue with Jamie surviving. At this point, he has a story that needs to be told, and we all know he's bound to eat it eventually. Dude is meant to be a tragic hero.
Don't think Bronn has any reason to live. But it's all in how Bronn navigates the battlefield singlehandedly, how Jamie was saved, and how he recovers, and then how the ENTIRE cliffhanger is dropped
Tyrion doesn't even bring it up at ALL when he meets his brother. We're just supposed to assume things happen between the missing time periods.
MushroomSamba
Member
I think it's mostly for Dany. She isn't gonna help until her goal is achieved first, and if they cut Cersei a break and give her a moment to regroup, Dany would have lost the ground she gained by the time she gets back from war with white walkers. I doubt Cersei gives up anything, regardless of whatever they come up with, but like I said...they're getting desperate, so they gotta try anyway.
WinterIsComing
Member
Good point. But in LFs point of view, having his own phrase thrown like that, when only Varys knew about it, he has to be wondering what else Bran knows that shouldn't. The way he looked at him when he listened it was a mix of surprise and caution.
Getting spoiled on all of it doesn't mean the episodes themselves got leaked. The details of what happens might have been leaked, but I don't see anywhere (out of curiosity, just checked out some popular torrent sites) the actual episode has been leaked.
Even if each part was well thought out and executed, it would still feel absurd to me in a world filed with so much danger that has always embraced that danger.
Mixed in with the rush to tell it all to fit the episodes instead of being able to let it naturally develop (the pacing and "teleportation" being the main issues here) and the show feels like its lost a lot of the tension that made it so much fun.
Of course it's fun to see all these characters come together, to see the dragons in Westeros, to see the WWs finally marching, but it's starting to feel like a show reel of sequences rather than an organic tail, and there are too many important characters escaping certain death too often.
If you establish certain rules so consistently then deviate, it's always going to feel jarring.
JimiNutz
Banned
I've felt the same way. To be honest I think the show lost that 'anything can happen and anyone can die' feeling the moment Jon came back from the dead with no repercussions at all. That still rubs me the wrong way and I feel that the audience is due a real Jon death.
I think it's only getting worse this season as well. Someone major needs to die soon to shake this feeling because the plot armor is strong this season.
All you complaining about plot armor and people not dying, you do realize the show has 8 episodes left. If they kill all the remaining characters off, what is going to be left?
I have less of a problem of people surviving and more with how this last episode in particular just glossed over some stuff and took really odd narrative choices when better options were available to reach the same end goal.
As I said before, Jamie and Bronn are captured but spared because Tyrion talks Danny out of burning them. They try to convince Jamie and Bronn to talk to Cersei and stop the fighting until the WW threat is addressed at which point Jamie suggests only way she or anyone in the kingdom will believe is if they see it themselves. Then they hatch the stupid idea to go beyond the wall at East Watch to capture a WW.
This scenario would also allow a more extended scene between Tyrion, Jamie, and Bronn. It sacrifices the quick scene between Cersei and Jamie but that would be worth it.
They could have also still shown that in between all this and the Loot train Battle, Davos sneaks into KL's to retrieve Gendry. Hell they could have shown him sneaking in with Theon as he goes to get Yara and Davos gets Gendry.
I have less of a problem of people surviving and more with how this last episode in particular just glossed over some stuff and took really odd narrative choices when better options were available to reach the same end goal.
As I said before, Jamie and Bronn are captured but spared because Tyrion talks Danny out of burning them. They try to convince Jamie and Bronn to talk to Cersei and stop the fighting until the WW threat is addressed at which point Jamie suggests only way she or anyone in the kingdom will believe is if they see it themselves. Then they hatch the stupid idea to go beyond the wall at East Watch to capture a WW.
This scenario would also allow a more extended scene between Tyrion, Jamie, and Bronn. It sacrifices the quick scene between Cersei and Jamie but that would be worth it.
They could have also still shown that in between all this and the Loot train Battle, Davos sneaks into KL's to retrieve Gendry. Hell they could have shown him sneaking in with Theon as he goes to get Yara and Davos gets Gendry.
KeyBladerXIII
Member
Oh fuck off Youtube! I saw a recommended video for the next episode that seemed innocent enough, like a preview. I clicked it and then the big spoilers showed up. Fucking hell...
Let's not forget who came up with this plan. Tyrion Lannister. Dude has been coming up with dumb plans all season lol.
I don't think the argument is that these characters should just all die. The argument is that the show should be written well enough that it's not completely ridiculous when they don't die to something that should quite obviously kill them.
Summer Haze
Banned
I haven't seen a single GoT-related video on YT. Probably because I don't watch GoT videos at all...
Vincent Alexander
Member
I'm mostly fine with plot armor and people not dropping like flies lately. It forces us to discuss other things about the show. I dislike that Game of Thrones talk focuses so much on who died or who is going to die, as if that is all the show has to offer. Game of Thrones can be deeper than that, but it's own fanbase's love for the talk of death has made a lot of discussion very surface level and uninteresting.
That's just my old man rant at the clouds.
That's just my old man rant at the clouds.
I think this is valid too.
Pankratous
Member
Jamie still has work to do (in my opinion: kill Cersei OR convince her to stop the war OR steal Lannister forces to help against the undead; something inherently GOOD anyway)
But Bronn should absolutely be a pile of ash
Nameless
Member
I'm sorry but this is hilarious when as recently as last season, and especially during as season 5, character deaths and tragedy were met with countless "shock value", "death is so predictable at this point". and "tragedy porn" complaints.
If Jaime would've died you'd be seeing those complaints on top of endless bitching about how riding at Drogon head-on like that was incredibly stupid, and a poor way for a Jaime to go.
Anyone who's survived this long should be hard to kill. And in the case of Jon, and maybe even Dany, there are clearly other forces at work.
Vincent Alexander
Member
I think this is true too. That's the problem with a show whose fanbase uses character deaths as it's main driver for discussion. You're going to get mountains of opinions on both sides claiming "shock value" or "plot armor" and everything in-between and surrounding. Have to kind of take it for what it is and move on.
Can't get over how stupid Tyrion's plan is. Go catch a white walker with an army of 10 men? When you know that there's a giant fucking army marching towards the wall? Everything bad that happens next episode could have been avoided by simply not writing dumb shit. The writers are really stupid.
Summer Haze
Banned
Kill people left and right: "meh, this is so predictable in that everyone dies!"
Don't kill people left and right: "meh, this is so predictable in that no one dies!"
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Wasn't Jon's idea initially, but admittedly he's the most experienced in that group.
Stupid or not, having someone who killed a WW lead the group makes sense.
Contrarians, right?
This is what happens sooner or later when your show is all about shocking deaths and the feeling that no one is safe.
It's out there. There are even parts of it on Youtube.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
The show has never been all about that nor is it now. Maybe you have been watching a different show than the majority of people.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
The mistake is people thinking that this is what the show is about.
Novel Mike
Member
This season feels like certain characters clearly have more plot armor then ever before. Like Bronn should have died in Episode 4, the dragon scorched fire all over the place but only aimed it just to destroy the Scorpion and not burn Bronn alive who was like 2 feet away? Yeah no freaking way. Same at the end with Jamie, Bronn manages to ride and catch him from behind as hes charging JUST in time for Jamie and him to both just barely miss being scorched to death? No freaking way.
I just think its clearly the way this season is being written in comparison to the previous seasons where it certainly feels like a majority of the characters are going to make it to season 8 just so they can either have a lot of characters live (unlikely) or kill off multiple characters per episode as we reach the finale (much more likely). I think this was largely as I felt in season 6 as well until Cersei literally blew up multiple characters at once.
I just think its clearly the way this season is being written in comparison to the previous seasons where it certainly feels like a majority of the characters are going to make it to season 8 just so they can either have a lot of characters live (unlikely) or kill off multiple characters per episode as we reach the finale (much more likely). I think this was largely as I felt in season 6 as well until Cersei literally blew up multiple characters at once.
I'd say deaths are more random now than they were in the earlier seasons. If you watched the early seasons over, you can see the dots connecting that leads to the death of most of the major characters who died. On repeat viewings, things like Ned and Visary's deaths, the Red Wedding, etc, are all laid out and you can point to the moments where their actions started adding up to doom them. Everything has a natural flow to it. Now there is no development. Characters are being killed off in highly contrived means. Instead of it being choices and moves the characters make over a period of time condemning them, it's people like Euron acting like an eraser to clear out characters.
The Greek Freak
Member
It's season 7, if you expected the good writing to begin now you haven't been paying attention.
They stumble into a few nice bits here and there but I'd be shocked if d+d ever have another successful show. They basically started on third base with this show.
Little Old Man
Member
The problem is that a lot of the secondary characters have died, or have never been introduced,, due to time and budget constraints. Like at the Wall, Ed is the only named character left IIRC. Same for Tormund and the Wildlings. If the writers had some more secondary characters, you could have more deaths (or at least tension) with the knowledge that characters existed to represent that particular group or setting, if say Edd was killed.
Vincent Alexander
Member
That's what I am complaining about. The show itself isn't. The perception is that it is. And I can see why, because that is one of the biggest things the fans like to talk about.
SurrenderDorothy
Banned
Can't, he's literally bones now.
Southerners, you must allow them their flights of fancy.
i feel like decapitation is very hard to recover from