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[Heshinsi]

She and the Doktraki are 2-0 and absolutely decimated their opponents both times. Why would they hold her idiotic allies being beaten against her when she wasn't even there?

Also Drogo wasn't a fireproof dragon whisperer.

The Unsullied won too. So her forces are 3-0.

 

[Robdraggoo]

So this season represents the book Martin hasn't released yet and next season is the next book after?

They are speed running this pretty hard it feels like. I guess they don't have Martins work to straight up lift from in part and are now working off of Martins cliff note plot points.

It feels like bad character drama followed by exceptional action set pieces and so on.

Like michael bay, whoosh and then the dragons fly in and blaarrrrgh!

Followed by really awkward dialogues.

I disagree, sort of. Michael bay action is boring becuase that's all it is, action. This season the drama has come from the action. There was more going on in the loot train battle than omg dragons.

But I agree on the speed running. Wish they had more time. But I wonder if it would be less noticeable if we were binge watching instead of waiting a week. Then it wouldnt have felt like ages between the hound scenes as an example.

Also still can't believe that Danny didn't go pick up the unsullied before she went back to dragonstone.

Missandai has to be pissed lol

 

[The Artisan]

It felt like the Middle East, in that various shades of melanin was represented in both the elite and the lower classes.

It felt like Africa too with the pyramids though, and this still kinda bothers me for several reasons.

-if Essos is supposed to represent Asia from the west to east coast, why are the inhabitants of Braavos mostly white? The whole house of black & white was white, the bankers are white, those actors that Arya was after was white. In the city of Qarth iirc most of the inhabitants were white. Only in Yunkai and Mereen did we see people who resembled Middle Eastern people; the Dothraki look like they could be Arabs, I guess.

-if all of Essos is Asia and Westeros is supposed to equate to all of Europe, why does everyone speak the "common tongue" wouldn't it have made more sense to have the different kingdoms speak different languages while having the Crownlands speak the common tongue?

-and speaking of the "common tongue", this show itself and the books for that matter uses English to act as the "common tongue" which makes sense, of course if English is the most spoken and common language in the world, but why is it that the story cannot borrow & adopt other real-life languages to act as stand-in languages for the world of ASOIAF too? Like, if the Dothraki are supposed to be Arabs, instead of inventing a language, why not just use Arabic as a stand-in and just use some invented words to replace others obviously like "Khaleesi"

-it really makes it look like English "common tongue" is more important and more relevant than all the other languages around it - I suppose it is, but what does that say about the other languages since GRRM made it clear that English is only a stand-in language and no other language was used as a stand-in?

Mhmm. And again, all of that is dropped, even after Tyrion encounters Jamie. We are supposed to imagine some letters/ravens flying around in between these scenes that explain everything.

The entirety of Jamie's drowning was also bad writing, but the time jumps also play a role in it. It's not a matter of seeing people on a ship. It's a matter of introducing something important, and then not finishing the job.

Yeah it's really unfortunate, man that we won't get a proper addressing to the scenes' transition, so the only thing is to just not think about it. Just tell yourself that Bronn had an O.D adrenaline rush and just raced his ass holding Jaime and flew out ou of the water as fast as possible.

That's just us making up another excuse to explain something for the poor writing & development of the show but there's nothing to do about it anyways.

I think he's fine with doing anything for her, but there would probably be a limit with what he would do to himself. Her not wanting another child would probably not work out for him, especially if she decides she might as well get something out of the child, like sacrificing it or some such.

I don't think he's fine with doing anything for her. Whatever is "right" and "wrong" to him is so totally warped and unbelievable since he started doing good things and reverted back to fuckboy soon after.

 

[soundscream]

Her armies have been defeated in combat and she can't personally fight anyone. She should cut that shit off.

Not really.

The unsullied never lost an actual battle, Mereen was an insurgency.

The Dothraki are undefeated also.

Dorne and High Garden are allies not her own forces.

 

[Heshinsi]

There's a lot of Arabic words in the Dothraki language. It's a fictional people, speaking a fictional language, that's mostly made up, but incorporates bits and pieces of real languages. Pyramids aren't just exclusive to Egypt.

Also, if the only people who speak Arabic are the Dothraki, I and many other would be pissed that only the "savages" spoke Arabic. Of course if only the Widling spoke English, it would be a wash. But that's not what they did. It's one of the reasons people can sympathise with the Widlings and then always condemn Dany for bringing the Dothraki. The Widlings were doing most of the same things, along with cannibalism.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

To top it off, the Dothraki didn't just win a little bit either. The way Jamie relayed it to Cersei, their army stands no chance against Dothraki. He wasn't even including the dragons. "They fight for sport" or however he put it.

 

[FiggyCal]

It felt like Africa too with the pyramids though, and this still kinda bothers me for several reasons.

-if Essos is supposed to represent Asia from the west to east coast, why is the inhabitants of Braavos mostly white? The whole house of black & white was white, the bankers are white, those actors that Arya was after was white. In the city of Qarth iirc most of the inhabitants were white. Only in Yunkai and Mereen did we see people who resembled Middle Eastern people; the Dothraki look like they could be Arabs, I guess.

-if all of Essos is Asia and Westeros is supposed to equate to all of Europe, why does everyone speak the "common tongue" wouldn't it have made more sense to have the different kingdoms speak different languages while having the Crownlands speak the common tongue?

-and speaking of the "common tongue", this show itself and the books for that matter uses English to act as the "common tongue" which makes sense, of course if English is the most spoken and common language in the world, but why is it that the story cannot borrow & adopt other real-life languages to act as stand-in languages for the world of ASOIAF too? Like, if the Dothraki are supposed to be Arabs, instead of inventing a language, why not just use Arabic as a stand-in and just use some invented words to replace others obviously like "Khaleesi"

Maybe they didn't go east enough. Like a lot of Iranians and Persians aren't necessarily dark skinned. I am disappointed, however, with the lack of prominent black characters in the show - I think they could have tried a little harder.

And also I think with the language: you certainly would not want the Dothraki to be connected directly with a real world culture. Their whole civilization revolves around raping and murdering - the backlash if they spoke Arabic would be catastrophic.

Edit: Are we sure that the unsullied held against Euron?

Edit 2: Also English being "the common tongue" is a basic trope in fantasy stories. I may be wrong, but I think Lord of the Rings did a similar thing. The different races had their unique languages and dialects, but everyone basically understood English.

 

[Heshinsi]

Maybe they didn't go east enough. Like a lot of Iranians and Persians aren't necessarily dark skinned. I am disappointed, however, with the lack of prominent black characters in the show - I think they could have tried a little harder.

And also I think with the language: you certainly would not want the Dothraki to be connected directly with a real world culture. Their whole civilization revolves around raping and murdering - the backlash if they spoke Arabic would be catastrophic.

Edit: Are we sure that the unsullied held against Euron?

The Greyjoys are world renowned for being absolutely shit on land. They took out the transport ships, but I doubt they engaged further than that.

Oh and to your earlier point. There's no one in Braavos the would look out of place in Syria or Lebanon. So yeah, it isn't weird at all.

 

[The Artisan]

There's a lot of Arabic words in the Dothraki language. It's a fictional people, speaking a fictional language, that's mostly made up, but incorporates bits and pieces of real languages. Pyramids aren't just exclusive to Egypt.

Are there really a lot of Arabic words in the Dothraki language?

Also yeah that was my original point the Westerosi are all fictional people too but they chose a real life language to stand in for the Westerosi common tongue. If Westerosi is supposed to represent all of Europe then why don't the different kingdoms speak different languages? Seems to me Westeros only represents the U.K.

Also, if the only people who speak Arabic are the Dothraki, I and many other would be pissed that only the "savages" spoke Arabic. Of course if only the Widling spoke English, it would be a wash. But that's not what they did. It's one of the reasons people can sympathise with the Widlings and then always condemn Dany for bringing the Dothraki. The Widlings were doing most of the same things, along with cannibalism.

We're not supposed to think of the Dothraki as savages, though. That's supposed to be the xenophobic viewpoint i.e one of the reasons the Tarlys didn't bend their knees.

Rakharo for instance, that young man from season 1 seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders till the other bloodriders took it off. You can argue that that's barbaric, but...it's the same type of "savage" shit that happens in Westeros. For example, Ramsay cutting Theon's dick off and sending it to his dad. Irri, one of Dany's first handmaidens also seemed like a very decent person. So the Dothraki aren't savages; there are just crazy people part of that culture, just like there are crazy people part of the Westerosi culture.

As someone who speaks Arabic for a native tongue, aren't you pissed that the language is undermined when a setting is supposed to be based on the Middle East, while the setting based on Europe uses the real life language?

 

[FiggyCal]

Are there really a lot of Arabic words in the Dothraki language?

Also yeah that was my original point the Westerosi are all fictional people too but they chose a real life language to stand in for the Westerosi common tongue. If Westerosi is supposed to represent all of Europe then why don't the different kingdoms speak different languages? Seems to me Westeros only represents the U.K.

We're not supposed to think of the Dothraki as savages, though. That's supposed to be the xenophobic viewpoint i.e one of the reasons the Tarlys didn't bend their knees.

Rakharo for instance, that young man from season 1 seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders till the other bloodriders took it off. You can argue that that's barbaric, but...it's the same type of "savage" shit that happens in Westeros. For example, Ramsay cutting Theon's dick off and sending it to his dad. Irri, one of Dany's first handmaidens also seemed like a very decent person. So the Dothraki aren't savages; there are just crazy people part of that culture, just like there are crazy people part of the Westerosi culture.

I'm with Randyll on this one point only.

I think you are right btw that they should have included more languages, even in Westeros. But doing something like that makes it much more difficult for the story to move along. Like, say the Wildlings spoke German. Things up north would be so much more difficult. I would imagine though that Dorne has their own language? I don't know anything about it, but they have really think accents when speaking English.

 

[Heshinsi]

Are there really a lot of Arabic words in the Dothraki language?

Also yeah that was my original point the Westerosi are all fictional people too but they chose a real life language to stand in for the Westerosi common tongue. If Westerosi is supposed to represent all of Europe then why don't the different kingdoms speak different languages? Seems to me Westeros only represents the U.K.

We're not supposed to think of the Dothraki as savages, though. That's supposed to be the xenophobic viewpoint i.e one of the reasons the Tarlys didn't bend their knees.

Rakharo for instance, that young man from season 1 seemed like he had a good head on his shoulders till the other bloodriders took it off. You can argue that that's barbaric, but...it's the same type of "savage" shit that happens in Westeros. For example, Ramsay cutting Theon's dick off and sending it to his dad. Irri, one of Dany's first handmaidens also seemed like a very decent person. So the Dothraki aren't savages; there are just crazy people part of that culture, just like there are crazy people part of the Westerosi culture.

As someone who speaks Arabic for a native tongue, aren't you pissed that the language is undermined when a setting is supposed to be based on the Middle East, while the setting based on Europe uses the real life language?

Nah, unless all of Essos speaks Arabic, like how all of Westeros speaks English, I don't mind. Also, I don't think Westeros represents Europe, but rather Britain, with Dorne being Spain+Morocco. Essos is much more diverse in culture and people. Hell the Wall reminds me a lot of Hadrian's Wall.

I also put the "savages" bit in quotations. Obviously they're not all like that, and Dany's khalasar (those that remained with her after Drogo's death) weren't bad. It seems like how they behave is strongly influenced by their leadership. Same thing with the Widlings. Mance got them all working together when they all hated and killed each other before. Now they've chilled out and follow Jon without question.

 

[The Artisan]

Maybe they didn't go east enough. Like a lot of Iranians and Persians aren't necessarily dark skinned. I am disappointed, however, with the lack of prominent black characters in the show - I think they could have tried a little harder.

Iranians and Lebanese folks are pretty much white looking, but they have their own languages. They didn't speak English with an English accent like the Braavosi bankers, Meliandre, actors, and Qarth inhabitants did.

Jaqen Hagar and Kinvara spoke with an accent but I think it was because of Valyrian.

I agree with you about the black characters, though. That's one of the reasons why GW is my favorite character; there just aren't enough black characters. I wish Jon would think of the idea of going really further south to get more men. "Let's go to Sothoryos. We've never been there before, but they are people, just like us. Wildlings living North, and Sothoryans living all the way south, we are living people and the winter war is a threat to us all."

Of course it would be a long travel down but this show has shown how fast people travel so it would've been worth it. And it would bring in a reason to have way more black people on the show.

And also I think with the language: you certainly would not want the Dothraki to be connected directly with a real world culture. Their whole civilization revolves around raping and murdering - the backlash if they spoke Arabic would be catastrophic.

All of the Dothraki weren't barbarians though, some of them were level headed and there were organizations and civilizations in Westeros that did the same things, the Ironborn for instance, and Tywin Lannister, ordering the mountain to do to villages exactly what you just said the Dothraki would do.

Honestly, it just makes it seem like English and the whole central white medieval theme that a lot of the lore is based on is more important than everyone around it. Which can be true I guess but it undermines the other people around the setting. English is a real language, it's a language on the show; Arabic is a real language, therefore it could've been a stand-in language on the show.

Edit: Are we sure that the unsullied held against Euron?

eh, it's pretty unclear at this point. i heard that the Unsullied boats that Euron was destroying were empty and now the Unsullied are trapped there...that's just one guess. Euron not being around for much of the season is going to make his death feel not so paid off.

Edit 2: Also English being "the common tongue" is a basic trope in fantasy stories. I may be wrong, but I think Lord of the Rings did a similar thing. The different races had their unique languages and dialects, but everyone basically understood English.

Nah you're right, Lord of the Rings did the same thing but I'm a much bigger fan of Thrones and I was just a kid when the LOTR movies comes out.

I get that in high fantasies English being the "common tongue" is a common trope but if you have to invent languages for all the other cultures, doesn't that make it seem like the white people's language in these stories is superior if they just use the real-life most spoken language, while inventing languages for all the people based on all the people surrounding the white people?

 

[The Artisan]

I'm with Randyll on this one point only.

But why man??? I just gave examples of how the powerful people of Westeros commit the same degenerate things that the Dothraki are feared for!

I think you are right btw that they should have included more languages, even in Westeros. But doing something like that makes it much more difficult for the story to move along. Like, say the Wildlings spoke German. Things up north would be so much more difficult. I would imagine though that Dorne has their own language? I don't know anything about it, but they have really think accents when speaking English.

Nah, it would not have been complicated. Just make the Wildling actors put on German accents. Just like how the Dornish actors all put on foreign accents. That made it clear that Dorne's common tongue wasn't English and it would've made that clear for the Wildlings. Same could've been done for the Vale, the Reach, and go on. Unless, of course, Westeros is supposed to represent the U.K only, then...where is the rest of Europe? It would have to be eastern Essos if Sothoryos is Africa.

Nah, unless all of Essos speaks Arabic, like how all of Westeros speaks English, I don't mind. Also, I don't think Westeros represents Europe, but rather Britain, with Dorne being Spain+Morocco. Essos is much more diverse in culture and people. Hell the Wall reminds me a lot of Hadrian's Wall.

I agree with you that Westeros is Britain, but then...where is the rest of Europe? If Essos is Asia, then there would be a variety of languages as you go east. But on the western border, yes you would have the Essosi speaking Arabic, but they aren't. It's Valyrian (which they could've based on Arabic too) or the Dothraki language whatever that is supposed to be, but you're telling me that there are Arabic words in the Dothraki language.

I also put the "savages" bit in quotations. Obviously they're not all like that, and Dany's khalasar (those that remained with her after Drogo's death) weren't bad. It seems like how they behave is strongly influenced by their leadership. Same thing with the Widlings. Mance got them all working together when they all hated and killed each other before. Now they've chilled out and follow Jon without question.

That's part of why I'm saying calling them "savages" doesn't matter. There are people in mainland Westeros, not above the wall, who do things that are "savage" like just as what the Dothraki and wildlings are notorious for.

edit: sorry for double post

 

[FiggyCal]

But why man??? I just gave examples of how the powerful people of Westeros commit the same degenerate things that the Dothraki are feared for!

Wrt Ramsay: people, including Ramsay's own father, were rightly horrified by how terrible he was. Maybe under new leadership, things will be different for the Dothraki.

Actually I was thinking of bringing up that people are regularly killed and raped in Dothraki weddings. But then I remembered that people have also been killed and raped in Westerosi weddings as well. But still, it's not considered "normal". Their culture is just nuts.

 

[Heshinsi]

Wrt Ramsay: people, including Ramsay's own father, were rightly horrified by how terrible he was. Maybe under new leadership, things will be different for the Dothraki.

Actually I was thinking of bringing up that people are regularly killed and raped in Dothraki weddings. But then I remembered that people have also been killed and raped in Westerosi weddings as well. But still, it's not considered "normal". Their culture is just nuts.

Do the Widlings count as Westerosi? Because I'm going to bet good money on their being people eaten at (cannibal guys, I can't remember their names) Fen(?) weddings lol. Nothing the Dothraki do is all that different from what the Widlings have been doing, and nothing beats cannibalism. It was weird to me just how chill everyone was with the fact that some of the group goes and eats their enemies. No one even batted an eye as buddy starts putting body parts of fallen victims on a rotisserie.

 

[The Artisan]

Wrt Ramsay: people, including Ramsay's own father, were rightly horrified by how terrible he was. Maybe under new leadership, things will be different for the Dothraki.

His father wasn't horrified enough to stop giving Ramsay so much power. Also let's not forget the fact that Ramsay exists because his father raped someone after killing her husbamd, and even raped her right underneath is swinging corpse.

And I didn't just mention Ramsay; Tywin Lannister employed the mountain, who also did the same things the Ironborn and Dothraki are accused of.

Actually I was thinking of bringing up that people are regularly killed and raped in Dothraki weddings. But then I remembered that people have also been killed and raped in Westerosi weddings as well. But still, it's not considered "normal". Their culture is just nuts.

fair point about Dothraki weddings, I'll give you that. However in real life, waaaay back in the day I think during medieval plays, there were actors who literally died during their acts. I'm not sure if this is entirely true or not but it's something that I heard a long time ago.

 

[FiggyCal]

Do the Widlings count as Westerosi? Because I'm going to bet good money on their being people eaten at (cannibal guys, I can't remember their names) Fen(?) weddings lol.

Thank God the Thenns are all (apparently) dead. It makes it a lot easier to sympathize with the Wildlings.

 

[The Artisan]

Thank God the Thenns are all (apparently) dead. It makes it a lot easier to sympathize with the Wildlings.

i fucking hate thenns

 

[Heshinsi]

Thank God the Thenns are all (apparently) dead. It makes it a lot easier to sympathize with the Wildlings.

So shouldn't the Khals all being dead also mean that just like the Widlings, the Dothraki can also be mellowed down by the type of leader they have?

 

[The Artisan]

So shouldn't the Khals all being dead also mean that just like the Widlings, the Dothraki can also be mellowed down by the type of leader they have?

that seems to be the case with Dany leading them now.

 

[FiggyCal]

So shouldn't the Khals all being dead also mean that just like the Widlings, the Dothraki can also be mellowed down by the type of leader they have?

I see where you guys are coming from and the Dothraki haven't done anything terrible since Dany took charge, but we've seen some shit. It's not like typical xenophobia - they're "others" and so on. They really are barbaric and I don't blame the people of Westeros for not wanting anything to do with them. I completely get it knowing what the audience knew about them since season 1. I'm worried at what will happen when Dany takes King's Landing (hypothetically) and the Dothraki go back to living on their own - how will they interact with the native population without a benevolent Khaleesi? I'm worried they go back to their old ways.

Like if the thenns were manning East Watch and not Thormund (even if they were mellowed out), I would not give a fuck if they died.

 

[Speevy]

Under King Robert, the countryside was terrorized by The Mountain and unchecked bandits/brigands.

Under King Joffrey, the countryside was terrorized by northerners and Lannister soldiers fighting each other, The Mountain, and unchecked brigands.

Under King Tommen, people are basically starving to death because the war has decimated the food supply.

Under Queen Cersei, the people are basically starving to death because the war has decimated the food supply, and there's another war that has further decimated the food supply.

If I was going to break the wheel, I'd make sure the new wheel had food.

 

[Nameless]

Under King Robert, the countryside was terrorized by The Mountain and unchecked bandits/brigands.

Under King Joffrey, the countryside was terrorized by northerners and Lannister soldiers fighting each other, The Mountain, and unchecked brigands.

Under King Tommen, people are basically starving to death because the war has decimated the food supply.

Under Queen Cersei, the people are basically starving to death because the war has decimated the food supply, and there's another war that has further decimated the food supply.

If I was going to break the wheel, I'd make sure the new wheel had food.

After good guy Night King freezes the wheel and gives everyone his blessings no one will need food anymore.

 

[Heshinsi]

I see where you guys are coming from and the Dothraki haven't done anything terrible since Dany took charge, but we've seen some shit. It's not like typical xenophobia - they're "others" and so on. They really are barbaric and I don't blame the people of Westeros for not wanting anything to do with them. I completely get it knowing what the audience knew about them since season 1. I'm worried at what will happen when Dany takes King's Landing (hypothetically) and the Dothraki go back to living on their own - how will they interact with the native population without a benevolent Khaleesi? I'm worried they go back to their old ways.

Like if the thenns were manning East Watch and not Thormund (even if they were mellowed out), I would not give a fuck if they died.

The Dothraki won't leave Dany. She claimed them all as Blood Riders, all of them. The most likely scenario is that the woman and children are brought over (or did they already arrive together?) and they are given lands, titles, etc, and then become Dany's direct bannermen in the crown lands. Or most of them die afterwards fighting the White Walkers.

 

[Speevy]

After good guy Night King freezes the wheel and gives everyone his blessings no one will need food anymore.

And he will turn back into Aerys Targaryen who wasn't mad after all.

 

[The Artisan]

the scene where Gendry smashes in the 2 gold cloaks' faces seemed kinda like filler to me

 

[Speevy]

the scene where Gendry smashes in the 2 gold cloaks' faces seemed kinda like filler to me

Davos gave them a choice. The hammer or the nail.

 

[FiggyCal]

the scene where Gendry smashes in the 2 gold cloaks' faces seemed kinda like filler to me

I think it shows that he's a capable fighter. I think the weirder part is that Davos thought it was a good idea to enlist him for their mission, like he already knew that Gendry could hold his own.

Or I guess Davos wanted to bring Gendry back to Winterfell, but Gendry wanted to go with Jon. Is that what happened?

 

[Heshinsi]

I just need to figure out how to kill off time for the rest of the day.

 

[Nameless]

Loved that part of the Gendry and Jon's conversation, "Our fathers trusted each other, why shouldn't we?"

No, Gendry, actually your father caved his father's chest in with a hammer similar to the one you're carrying.

 

[Speevy]

I just need to figure out how to kill off time for the rest of the day.

When sending someone to a place that is sure to spell certain death, always send the best warriors in Westeros.

This is a great idea. Why not Brienne too?

 

[Heshinsi]

Ignorance is bliss, it truly is. If I'm Jon and I find out that not only were my parents not who I was told they were, but that they both loved each other and were married, and that my father was killed by my mother's obsessive stalker; yeah I'd be pissed.

 

[Speevy]

I think the funniest line written for this season was this exchange between Tyrion and Davos

Tyrion: "The last time I was here, I killed my father was a crossbow."
Davos (casually): "The last time I was here, you killed my son with wildfire."

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

I love this

She lost twice tho.

Ignorance is bliss, it truly is. If I'm Jon and I find out that not only were my parents not who I was told they were, but that they both loved each other and were married, and that my father was killed by my mother's obsessive stalker; yeah I'd be pissed.

Why're you twisting the tale in favour of Rhaegar? You're literally ignoring all of the politics in RR.

 

[The Artisan]

Davos gave them a choice. The hammer or the nail.

If Davos returned to Dragonstone with a black or bruised stomach then maybe it would've been more believable. Like when he walks up to the gold cloaks when they recognize Tyrion, if one of them punched him in the eye and the other in the torso to shut him up - which would then infuriate Gendry and prompt him to attack them - instead of the gold cloaks just walking passed Davos, you know.

I think it shows that he's a capable fighter. I think the weirder part is that Davos thought it was a good idea to enlist him for their mission, like he already knew that Gendry could hold his own.

Or I guess Davos wanted to bring Gendry back to Winterfell, but Gendry wanted to go with Jon. Is that what happened?

Yeah, Davos wanted to bring Gendry to Winterfell as a dragonglass blacksmith or something like that. Also, we as the audience already knew that Gendry's a capable fighter as we saw several seasons ago. Those 2 killed were the only blood that shed in this episode so even though this show can go without nudity, it can't go without killing lol

I just need to figure out how to kill off time for the rest of the day.

Jon looks like he's on steroids

Ignorance is bliss, it truly is. If I'm Jon and I find out that not only were my parents not who I was told they were, but that they both loved each other and were married, and that my father was killed by my mother's obsessive stalker; yeah I'd be pissed.

When Jon finds out who he is, it's going to fuck him up so bad. Everybody is on about "just imagine when Jon & Dany find out they're related after they fuck LOL" - but no, for Jon, there's waaaaay more to swallow than that.

His whole life was a life. Growing up believing himself to be Ned Stark's bastard only to learn he was not, and that he is the product of so much bloodshed...it's going to fuck him up so much mentally.

 

[The Artisan]

I think the funniest line written for this season was this exchange between Tyrion and Davos

Tyrion: "The last time I was here, I killed my father was a crossbow."
Davos (casually): "The last time I was here, you killed my son with wildfire."

it certainly was satisfying to hear Davos finally mention Matthos to Tyrion and the look on his face after that.

edit: sorry for double post

 

[Nameless]

Ignorance is bliss, it truly is. If I'm Jon and I find out that not only were my parents not who I was told they were, but that they both loved each other and were married, and that my father was killed by my mother's obsessive stalker; yeah I'd be pissed.

And knowing Jon, finding out he's the love child of a relationship that started one the bloodiest wars in history will make him brood even deeper. But Robert's Rebellion needed to happen for the Prince who was Promised to come into the world.

 

[The Artisan]

And knowing Jon, finding out he's the love child of a relationship that started one the bloodiest wars in history will make him brood even deeper. But Robert's Rebellion needed to happen for the Prince who was Promised to come into the world.

agreed

but, I think the prince/princess who was promised will be the offspring of Jon and Dany though.

once that kid/kids are born the world will finally be at peace and that's...what was promised, I guess? peace?

 

[SurrenderDorothy]

agreed

but, I think the prince/princess who was promised will be the offspring of Jon and Dany though.

once that kid/kids are born the world will finally be at peace and that's...what was promised, I guess? peace?

Nah, I'm certain the title belongs to either Jon or Dany(maybe even both).
The prophecy is fulfilled once their tales are over.

When you think about it though, Jon is literally the Prince that was Promised(to be kept secret).

 

[Heshinsi]

She lost twice tho.

Why're you twisting the tale in favour of Rhaegar? You're literally ignoring all of the politics in RR.

Not technically though. The Greyjoys, and the Tyrells aren't her armies though, but rather the forces of her allies. Her own personal forces haven't been defeated yet.

What's RR? I'm talking specifically about Lyanna and Rhaegar's relationship. Robert has told everyone that would listen that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, and we know that's not true. Sure those two running off together helped start the war, but I don't for a moment believe they thought the chain of events that occurred to initiate a war was going to happen like that.

Now I don't know why they never bothered to send ravens after they ran off though, because that part is weird.

 

[The Artisan]

Nah, I'm certain the title belongs to either Jon or Dany(maybe even both).
The prophecy is fulfilled once their tales are over.

When you think about it though, Jon is literally the Prince that was Promised(to be kept secret).

yeah in a literal sense Jon is the prince that was promised, but to the bolded, wouldn't their tales be over technically once Dany gives birth to their children? it's kinda the culmination of ice & fire coming together as a physical manifestation

 

[Nameless]

agreed

but, I think the prince/princess who was promised will be the offspring of Jon and Dany though.

once that kid/kids are born the world will finally be at peace and that's...what was promised, I guess? peace?

It would have to be a looooooooong Winter since the PWWP is supposed to lead humanity out of it.

 

[The Artisan]

It would have to be a looooooooong Winter since the PWWP is supposed to lead humanity out of it.

well if Jon gets Dany pregnant, that would give both of them even more incentive to lead humanity out of the winter war, so...

 

[Nameless]

well if Jon gets Dany pregnant, that would give both of them even more incentive to lead humanity out of the winter war, so...

Hopefully not even Jon's dragon-wolf seed is strong enough to penetrate the ravaged wasteland known as Dany's womb.

 

[Heshinsi]

The long winter took a generation to fight the Walkers back. Old Nan says that it lasted for years. To be wrapped in 8 episodes seems so ridiculous if they don't introduce time jumps.

Also, I don't actually think Jon is Ice and Fire. Jon on a technical level is both Stark and Targaryen, but from a practical perspective he's 100% a Stark. If a child is raised in Sweden, is told that he is Swedish, that his parents were Swedish, and becomes engrossed with and strongly identifies as being a Swede. Just because that child is told when they reach adulthood that their biological father was actually Moroccan, it isn't suddenly going to make this kid have an immediate cultural and emotional connection with Morocco. From his culture, his identity, his upbringing, the language he speaks, etc, there is nothing Moroccan about this child besides the DNA of his father. A father he didn't even know about. No one is going to look at him and go, "yeah that kid represents both these cultures and peoples." No he doesn't.

A song of ice and fire only makes sense to me if the child in question is both a Stark and a Targaryen in the complete sense. By blood, by culture, by identity. You can't be ice and fire and only rep Ice.

 

[nubbe]

well if Jon gets Dany pregnant, that would give both of them even more incentive to lead humanity out of the winter war, so...

yes, they need to get baning to save the world

 

[FiggyCal]

well if Jon gets Dany pregnant, that would give both of them even more incentive to lead humanity out of the winter war, so...

I like the idea since Dany was also supposed to give birth to the "Stallion that would mount the world", but I remember (and I may be wrong) that she wasn't able to give birth after being cursed by the sorceress in Season 1.

I think it's a lot more likely that Jon and Dany are the song of ice and fire. No tricks here.

 

[The Artisan]

Hopefully not even Jon's dragon-wolf seed is strong enough to penetrate the ravaged wasteland known as Dany's womb.

yes, they need to get baning to save the world

I can't tell if you're joking or not, but I agree

The long winter took a generation to fight the Walkers back. Old Nan says that it lasted for years. To be wrapped in 8 episodes seems so ridiculous if they don't introduce time jumps.

Also, I don't actually think Jon is Ice and Fire. Jon on a technical level is both Stark and Targaryen, but from a practical perspective he's 100% a Stark. If a child is raised in Sweden, is told that he is Swedish, that his parents were Swedish, and becomes engrossed with and strongly identifies as being a Swede. Just because that child is told when they reach adulthood that their biological father was actually Moroccan, it isn't suddenly going to make this kid have an immediate cultural and emotional connection with Morocco. From his culture, his identity, his upbringing, the language he speaks, etc, there is nothing Moroccan about this child besides the DNA his father. A father he didn't even know about. No one is going to look at him and go, "yeah that kid represents both worlds." No he doesn't.

A song of ice and fire only makes sense to me if the child in question is both a Stark and a Targaryen in the complete sense. By blood, by culture, by identity. You can't be ice and fire and only rep Ice.

I don't think Jon is a song of ice and fire either. Jon maybe a son of a family with a direwolf sigil and a dragon sigil, but he was born and raised among the direwolf family, joined a party going up north where the winter don't sleep and it snows, snows, snows...his story is all about ice. Dany's is all about fire. The "fire" side to Jon didn't and won't play a role till he meets Dany. So to me, them together is a song of ice and fire, therefore their offspring is the song of ice and fire

 

[The Artisan]

I like the idea since Dany was also supposed to give birth to the "Stallion that would mount the world", but I remember (and I may be wrong) that she wasn't able to give birth after being cursed by the sorceress in Season 1.

I think it's a lot more likely that Jon and Dany are the song of ice and fire. No tricks here.

well yeah, if Jon and Dany together are a song of ice and fire then it'd make sense for their child to be that prince/princess that was promised, in my opinion.

also about the whole "stallion that mounts the world" perhaps that does refer to her future child but I also don't place all stake in what certain characters say. even when Tywin said "anyone who says I'm the king is no true king" - I believed that in the moment because it was Joffrey saying it. But Jon said "i am a king" also and I'm fully behind that.

edit: sorry for double post

 

[Grinchy]

She and the Doktraki are 2-0 and absolutely decimated their opponents both times. Why would they hold her allies being beaten against her when she wasn't even there?

Also Drogo wasn't a fireproof dragon whisperer.

She needs someone to Cersei up her hair and make her do the walk.