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[Cakeboxer]

forget about consoles for a moment. let's say consoles are done. You have only apps on your TV, Phone, PC..... what is going to make you open one app over the other?......Tha same reason a person opens Netflix to watch squid game or Amazon to watch a James Bond movie or Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian.... you know, Exclsuvie content.


as long as you can acces games on other platforms, Game Pass will be a burden to the entire industry and developers too

If consoles ever die out, and that will eventually happen, then of course you're right. But we're still in the present. Exclusive day-one releases on Game Pass cannibalize sales across four platforms with very little benefit. Nobody is forced to put their games on Game Pass. Those who do want financial security. That's their own decision. High risk, high reward; low risk, low reward.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

Wasn't good enough obviously

Hi-Fi Rush dev hits back at Microsoft exec calling for more award-winning games with their own awards: "Not enough?"

The comment certainly raised eyebrows

www.gamesradar.com

Pete Hines criticizes subscription services like Xbox Game Pass for not properly valuing game developers

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Hi-Fi Rush dev hits back at Microsoft exec calling for more award-winning games with their own awards: "Not enough?"

The comment certainly raised eyebrows

www.gamesradar.com

Pete Hines criticizes subscription services like Xbox Game Pass for not properly valuing game developers

It didn't sell and didn't get enough players. Awards from other industry people don't make a game a success.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

If consoles ever die out, and that will eventually happen, then of course you're right. But we're still in the present. Exclusive day-one releases on Game Pass cannibalize sales across four platforms with very little benefit. Nobody is forced to put their games on Game Pass. Those who do want financial security. That's their own decision. High risk, high reward; low risk, low reward.

And MS still needs to fire around 8K people from Xbox over the next 5 years, no matter what. With Game Pass failing to grow, Xbox/ABK/Zenimax devs will pay the price, regardless of how successful their games are

 

[UltimaKilo]

It's not hard to understand. Any value games had or appreciation is severely diminished with consumption models like subscriptions. Game development changes with short cuts, cut content etc etc to keep up with the content needed.

Also developers don't get rewarded and laid off as it's more difficult to make any ROI. Players logging in for 5 minutes, doesn't help them.

It's double edged. Good stuff gets appreciated more and bad stuff gets casted aside.

Back in the day of purchasing albums, consumers were more likely to appreciate the "lesser" songs on an album, or even an album itself. However, you were limited in discovering gems to how much you can purchase or the likes of a radio disc jokey.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Of course he'd be positive about the service. It's free money and attention for his irrelevant game that would otherwise go unnoticed. He benefits. AAA publishers do not.

Thread is about payouts that devs get out of gamepass. A hypothetical situation where execs would keep major parts of profit while devs would be paid peanuts.

Thats not how the current situation is. In fact, they seem to be doing well on that front.

 

[PlayStaytion]

I hate the kind of behavior when rich people get sick of their own wealth and behave so grossly cause nobody want to smell this kind of behavior.

 

[Ashamam]

It's the nicest way to tell him it's already posted. Cage the rage, homeboy.

I'm confused, you linked back to this thread, not another posted thread. Did they get merged or something?

 

[Viruz]

...

What can you say when a service and entire strategy meant to propel Xbox to the top of the console, platform, and ecosystem race ends up doing the exact opposite, the writing is on the wall

Yes, that's why it's the perfect time for a gamepass price increase.

 

[calico]

Silksong is not a very representative example, given it was all but guaranteed to be a massive hit on a tiny budget. This applies to very few games. I doubt they needed the Game Pass money to fund the game, and MS probably had to pay the equivalent of the budget several times over to get it on Game Pass.

 

[POKEYCLYDE]

Good games sell if they're on Gamepass or not.

The most recent example: Silksong.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ex employee is bitter?

Did not work at MS and criticised GamePass? —> What do they know? If they worked there then it would be worth to hear what those people think

Did work at MS and criticised GamePass? —> Just a bitter ex employee that feels left out of the riches GamePass provides clearly to everyone

CEO of Activision - Blizzard testified GamePass hurts games' perceived value and the gaming ecosystem? —> Blah blah… still somehow does not matter, GamePass is great blah blah…

<insert anything with any data that is critical about GamePass> —> Blah blah, irrelevant, GamePass is great.

Phil could literally come to your place and beat you with a GamePass tagged baseball bat and on your way to the hospital you would praise the GamePass experience.

 

[Cakeboxer]

And MS still needs to fire around 8K people from Xbox over the next 5 years, no matter what. With Game Pass failing to grow, Xbox/ABK/Zenimax devs will pay the price, regardless of how successful their games are

And that's exactly why they should stop the day-one releases. You can't finance a game worth hundred million+ if people can just rent it for a few bucks on release.

 

[TomasSala]

So I will do this once and see if it goes well. I see my name pop up here regularly. I am tomas sala , the developer of the Falconeer and Bulwark. Ask me what you want about gamepass and I will try to answer.

up front:

Gamepass from the total revenue of the Falconeer was likely a quarter or so, substantial but not "existential".
Bulwark my game from 2024 has close to 1200 user reviews on steam (83%) and has never been on Gamepass and is surviving fine just on sales.

So that perhaps lets off some steam out of the "poor indie can't survive with out GP money".. cuz that hasn't ever been the case nor will it ever be. And it belies a rather naive perspective on how games make money in this industry, be it 5 years ago or last year.
The game got roughly three quarter of a million installs on gamepass, and yes that is a big number. But the total amount of keys and installs sold/ streamed or whatnot is several millions, so again it's a super , no doubts about it and it can make a good boost. But if it's the entire pie then you are in trouble as a dev or pub.

I will always be grateful for the support (Xbox also funded some of the development and gave me my first break as a solo). Gamepass is a nice different monetization within a very hit/sales driven market that is filled with a few giant monopolies (steam or even mobile). Within those giant platforms/storefronts GP is the smallest one and to be honest much to small to take credit for "devaluaing" games and way to young. Diversity of platforms/deals is great for developers big and small, cuz it means you aren't dependent on a single precarious relationship.

The "race to the bottom" argument that gets thrown around, I mean lets be honest the Appstore and Playstore already pissed over game quality and genuine passion for great experiences. Then the general supply of games went bigger and bigger, and older games remained viable too, and then fortnite and roblox happened, this caused steam and others to focus on sales and discounts as a way to get eyeballs on games. Which every dev and pub dove and is still diving into. That is the cause for the "race to the bottom" where games are no longer making enough to warrant big budget investments. A victim of its own success, gamepass is such a tiny ingredient in that soup as are other subscription services.

Now hines mention that it was magical for a time and yeh I agree much of my perspective on GP must be seen through those goggles as well. It is much harder to get onto Gamepass during this current industry contraction, perhaps its economics , perhaps its competition with the giant library of inhouse xbox studios titles. And that same competition is also expanding to sales on xbox for games, I mean even for bigger games , you are now competing against many other games, many of which are 1st party and then you are competing against gamepass. I haven't bought an xbox game in years and neither have a lot of you. But I am paying microsoft for GP and enjoying the service.

So I think it might be around for a while. Is Xbox a desirable platform for devs? I mean sure if they make a deal with you.. why not? As a store its kinda weird right now, I mean why buy a game when you can get one from Gamepass.

But all round, subscriptions aren't saving the industry,neither is cloud gaming it's just another outlet and all these massive companies are gonna shrink and contract and do what they do.
I'm just an indie solodev trying to keep my head above water and apparently some news outlets enjoy quoting me, (often out of context), so hey..
Well ask away and I will try to answer..

cheerio,
Tomas Sala

 

[Ozriel]

The irony is that Exclusives are the thing Game Pass would need in order to have a chance of existing long term.

forget about consoles for a moment. let's say consoles are done. You have only apps on your TV, Phone, PC..... what is going to make you open one app over the other?......Tha same reason a person opens Netflix to watch squid game or Amazon to watch a James Bond movie or Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian.... you know, Exclsuvie content.


as long as you can acces games on other platforms, Game Pass will be a burden to the entire industry and developers too

Wut?

You've…forgotten what GamePass is? A paid subscription service that gives you access to games?

You're launching GP games because it's covered in the subscription you've already paid for. Duh.

 

[pudel]

But if it's the entire pie then you are in trouble as a dev or pub.

Everyone is in trouble if GP would be the entire pie. Having M$ or any other mega corp gatekeeping the video game market cannot be a good idea. Especially when you see how they use this power to push certain weird agendas. And as customers loosing their ability to "vote with their wallet" in a sub based model....there is nothing you can do anymore against it (except from looking for another hobby).

Btw, welcome Sir!

 

[Mr Moose]

He sure did appreciate it when he was still employed at the company.

Bethesda Loves The Potential Of Xbox Game Pass

In an interview with Major Nelson, Todd Howard and Pete Hines of Bethesda talked about how great Game Pass is.

www.thegamer.com

"One of the early mantras that I learned from Todd was that we want as many people as possible to play our games," said Hines. "It's a lot of damn work and a lot of your life you put into making something. I want as many people to have a chance to experience something that I created as possible. Game Pass is a great tool to do that for a lot of people."

Both can be true. Devalues games + lots of potential players.

 

[Laptop1991]

Pete telling the truth now he has left Bethesda and Microsoft lol, makes a change from MTX will only be cosmetic for Fallout 76!

 

[Clear]

If you're in the belly of the corporate beast, you say what you're supposed to say or you're gone.

Objectively all-encompassing strategic decisions, like the ones that have defined Xbox operations for the past decade or so are all flowing top-down. And by top I mean Nadella and other senior execs in charge of units within MS that generate massive capital. To be honest, I wonder sometimes how much say Phil Spencer has had in steering, as opposed to simply executing the plans for the division.

That interview awhile back with Bobby Kotick was very interesting in that you can see a line of descent stretching back to Steve Jobs. Jobs gave Kotick his break, and Kotick gave Phil his. That Phil would go in such a different direction to what no-doubt would have been recommended to him by Bobby Kotick, a guy who's success in the business is undeniable, really makes me wonder how much of his own man he's been all these years.

 

[adamsapple]

I'm confused, you linked back to this thread, not another posted thread. Did they get merged or something?

Yes, lol.

Two different threads for the same news, mods merged them. Happens all the time.

 

[StereoVsn]

He should know something about undervaluing the people making games, considering his treatment of Arkane, Human Head and other studios in the 2000s and early 2010s.

That was generally head bosses at Zenimax, but yeah, the situation was borderline criminal.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

"You can no longer buy a product"

Every GamePass game can be purchased outside of the service. This isn't Netflix where the content is literally locked behind a subscription.

Think of all the poor developers making bad games, they can't swindle customers anymore

 

[owandeseis]

You can't buy a product anymore? Yet 3 of the best selling games this year were day 1 GP games.

Even if you don't count Playstation and Switch, Gamepass covers about a 10% of total PC+Xbox potential buyers, even less if you add the other platforms, if you make a good product and a product people actually asked for, you make a lot of money.

Everyone asked for an old school RPG from Obsidian, instead they focus on these "modern" action rpg's with ridiculous looking characters, result? Avowed gets like 1/10th for Oblivion Remaster CCU numbers.

Kojima could be making games that sell over 2-digit million numbers, but he decided to work on Death Stranding which not many people asked for, lets be honest, so it gets humble sales, now if he made an action or action stealth game? the sales wouldn't be even close to DS2 ones.

This happens to everything in the industry, but seems like people working there can't recognize it. Get some talented leadership who knows about what the real players want and the studios will be succesful

 

[Saber]

Already said before, it devaluate the games.
People are mostly bind because they see price tags and GP mascarades that.

 

[Edgelord79]

Would be nice to see the entirety of the Game Pass black box laid out to see what it entails for everyone involved. Pretty sure that will never happen though.

 

[PauloRoberto]

At this day and age, anyone who still believes this business model is healthly... is a public idiot

 

[Topher]

So I will do this once and see if it goes well. I see my name pop up here regularly. I am tomas sala , the developer of the Falconeer and Bulwark. Ask me what you want about gamepass and I will try to answer.

up front:

Gamepass from the total revenue of the Falconeer was likely a quarter or so, substantial but not "existential".
Bulwark my game from 2024 has close to 1200 user reviews on steam (83%) and has never been on Gamepass and is surviving fine just on sales.

So that perhaps lets off some steam out of the "poor indie can't survive with out GP money".. cuz that hasn't ever been the case nor will it ever be. And it belies a rather naive perspective on how games make money in this industry, be it 5 years ago or last year.
The game got roughly three quarter of a million installs on gamepass, and yes that is a big number. But the total amount of keys and installs sold/ streamed or whatnot is several millions, so again it's a super , no doubts about it and it can make a good boost. But if it's the entire pie then you are in trouble as a dev or pub.

I will always be grateful for the support (Xbox also funded some of the development and gave me my first break as a solo). Gamepass is a nice different monetization within a very hit/sales driven market that is filled with a few giant monopolies (steam or even mobile). Within those giant platforms/storefronts GP is the smallest one and to be honest much to small to take credit for "devaluaing" games and way to young. Diversity of platforms/deals is great for developers big and small, cuz it means you aren't dependent on a single precarious relationship.

The "race to the bottom" argument that gets thrown around, I mean lets be honest the Appstore and Playstore already pissed over game quality and genuine passion for great experiences. Then the general supply of games went bigger and bigger, and older games remained viable too, and then fortnite and roblox happened, this caused steam and others to focus on sales and discounts as a way to get eyeballs on games. Which every dev and pub dove and is still diving into. That is the cause for the "race to the bottom" where games are no longer making enough to warrant big budget investments. A victim of its own success, gamepass is such a tiny ingredient in that soup as are other subscription services.

Now hines mention that it was magical for a time and yeh I agree much of my perspective on GP must be seen through those goggles as well. It is much harder to get onto Gamepass during this current industry contraction, perhaps its economics , perhaps its competition with the giant library of inhouse xbox studios titles. And that same competition is also expanding to sales on xbox for games, I mean even for bigger games , you are now competing against many other games, many of which are 1st party and then you are competing against gamepass. I haven't bought an xbox game in years and neither have a lot of you. But I am paying microsoft for GP and enjoying the service.

So I think it might be around for a while. Is Xbox a desirable platform for devs? I mean sure if they make a deal with you.. why not? As a store its kinda weird right now, I mean why buy a game when you can get one from Gamepass.

But all round, subscriptions aren't saving the industry,neither is cloud gaming it's just another outlet and all these massive companies are gonna shrink and contract and do what they do.
I'm just an indie solodev trying to keep my head above water and apparently some news outlets enjoy quoting me, (often out of context), so hey..
Well ask away and I will try to answer..

cheerio,
Tomas Sala

I recall a few years ago Piers Harding-Rolls had a session at GDC (I believe) where he predicted that early on Microsoft would entice developers into Gamepass deals, but he said that was only going to be until they got their first party in order. That seems to be in line with what you are saying here about it being harder to "get onto Gamepass". You are attributing that to industry contraction and the ebb and flow of the business. Of course, there can be many reason for this. Do you also agree with Piers that now Microsoft is in a situation where they don't need to fund as many third party deals as they used to?

Also, can you give details on why Bulwark wasn't added to Gamepass like Falconeer was?

Thanks for jumping into to discuss.

 

[TomasSala]

I recall a few years ago Piers Harding-Rolls had a session at GDC (I believe) where he predicted that early on Microsoft would entice developers into Gamepass deals, but he said that was only going to be until they got their first party in order. That seems to be in line with what you are saying here about it being harder to "get onto Gamepass". You are attributing that to industry contraction and the ebb and flow of the business. Of course, there can be many reason for this. Do you also agree with Piers that now Microsoft is in a situation where they don't need to fund as many third party deals as they used to?

Also, can you give details on why Bulwark wasn't added to Gamepass like Falconeer was?

Thanks for jumping into to discuss.

yeh that tracks, and its very common sense. They now have steady stream of their own games that can go up front. Actually need to go up front cuz they need to succeed. In this sense every 3rd party developer is less relevant for gamepass now. This isn't an active strategy or anything nasty... it's the most logical outcome. Games you see appearing are the absolute must have games to compete as a service or slightly older filler-indies, games that were cool a few years ago.

regarding bulwark, do realize that a developer or publisher doesn't 'add' a game to gamepass, it's a curated service.

Bulwark isn't a must have megahit and isn't an older property and I think the glut of City-builders also targeting console took it's toll. There are probably other reasons I am not aware off. Who knows..

 

[Ebrietas]

Did not work at MS and criticised GamePass? —> What do they know? If they worked there then it would be worth to hear what those people would thing

Did work at MS and criticised GamePass? —> Just a bitter ex employee that feels left out of the riches GamePass provides clearly to everyone

CEO of Activision - Blizzard testified GamePass hurts games' perceived value and the gaming ecosystem? —> Blah Blah… still somehow does not matter, GamePass is great blah blah…

<insert anything with any data that is critical about GamePass> —> Blah blah, irrelevant, GamePass is great.

Phil could literally come to your place and beat you with a GamePass tagged baseball bat and on your way to the hospital you would praise the GamePass experience.

The defense force is beyond pathetic at this point.

Want to shoot the messenger from within? Ok, sure. Now what about the customers? Gamepass remains at a pathetic 30 million subs after all this time, if not less. That's despite being on PC for years. And despite artificially inflating the numbers by renaming gold subs. The actual market of consumers also sees increasingly little value in gamepass and is choosing to spend their time and money on other platforms.

 

[Steve Holt]

The defence force hasn't disappointed with this one. Down playing this in record time. GG

 

[Topher]

yeh that tracks, and its very common sense. They now have steady stream of their own games that can go up front. Actually need to go up front cuz they need to succeed. In this sense every 3rd party developer is less relevant for gamepass now. This isn't an active strategy or anything nasty... it's the most logical outcome. Games you see appearing are the absolute must have games to compete as a service or slightly older filler-indies, games that were cool a few years ago.

regarding bulwark, do realize that a developer or publisher doesn't 'add' a game to gamepass, it's a curated service.

Bulwark doesn't fit in a must have or 1st party category and I think the glut of City-builders also targeting console took it's toll. There are probably other reasons I am not aware off. Who knows..

Interesting. I get your point about it being a "curated" service so I take it that means MS simply never reached out to you about it. That doesn't prevent devs from pitching their games for Game Pass, does it?

 

[bighugeguns]

The velocity of new releases is out of control, it devalues games big and small, it's only going to accelerate with AI, if putting your title on Gamepass affords you even a tiny bit better chance of getting into the real organic gaming zeitgeist, then it's worth it.

"Most painters die poor." applies more and more to video games each day, don't fuck around.

 

[Goalus]

That sounds more like the description of exclusive games.

Quoted for truth.

 

[TomasSala]

Interesting. I get your point about it being a "curated" service so I take it that means MS simply never reached out to you about it. That doesn't prevent devs from pitching their games for Game Pass, does it?

No everybody pitches, everybody. It's just part of the business.

But Bulwark was always very steam focused, Falconeer (as pointed out earlier on this thread) never took off on steam. It had to sim-ship on the xbox/playstation nextgen launchweek in november 2020, and it was an xbox launch title, so it had to be.
So the two main reasons for its subpar performance were:
1. I wasn't focused enough on steam, demos and great mouse and keyboard controls
2. That week people were buying a lot less games, cuz they were hoping to spend their cash on a brand new console. So not a good week to launch an indiegame on steam.

It still did really well outside of steam, so hey cannot complain, even got a BAFTA nomination out of it.

For Bulwark , steam became the main platform and it did really well, it is ultimately a more survivable platform for indies.

I am making a Falconeer remaster to remedy the Falconeer's performance and fix most of the criticisms off it on steam. Basically I am 100% focused on Steam and not on consoles. Such is the world today.

 

[Topher]

No everybody pitches, everybody. It's just part of the business.

But Bulwark was always very steam focused, Falconeer (as pointed out earlier on this thread) never took off on steam. It had to sim-ship on the xbox/playstation nextgen launchweek in november 2020, and it was an xbox launch title, so it had to be.
So the two main reasons for its subpar performance were:
1. I wasn't focused enough on steam, demos and great mouse and keyboard controls
2. That week people were buying a lot less games, cuz they were hoping to spend their cash on a brand new console. So not a good week to launch an indiegame on steam.

It still did really well outside of steam, so hey cannot complain, even got a BAFTA nomination out of it.

For Bulwark , steam became the main platform and it did really well, it is ultimately a more survivable platform for indies.

I am making a Falconeer remaster to remedy the Falconeer's performance and fix most of the criticisms off it on steam. Basically I am 100% focused on Steam and not on consoles. Such is the world today.

Gotcha. Interesting perspective on all this. Thanks again.

 

[Punished Miku]

The velocity of new releases is out of control, it devalues games big and small, it's only going to accelerate with AI, if putting your title on Gamepass affords you even a tiny bit better chance of getting into the real organic gaming zeitgeist, then it's worth it.

100%. I buy a giant number of titles. I can't physically play them all.

The bundle is on sale on Xbox now. Went ahead and picked it up, $12.

T TomasSala are you able to tell us anything about Play Anywhere? I noticed Bulwark is and just wanted to thank you for that. I was just wondering if its extra work or relatively easy to do that.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Well, that was obvious.

 

[TomasSala]

100%. I buy a giant number of titles. I can't physically play them all.

The bundle is on sale on Xbox now. Went ahead and picked it up, $12.

T TomasSala are you able to tell us anything about Play Anywhere? I noticed Bulwark is and just wanted to thank you for that. I was just wondering if its extra work or relatively easy to do that.

It's been a while and I have someone that ports my games for me and handles all the API stuff, my ADHD is hyperfocused on fun stuff like making games, but dry API integration is a bit of a hard wall

What I remember was that it wasn't super hard.

 

[TheMule1983]

He's right. All you need to look at is the sad state of Xbox in 2025 and the studios they bought to see this. Some people aren't going to like what he's saying but it's the truth.

This. But the die hard Xbox fans will continue to bury their head in the sand and repeat ad nauseam whatever the talking heads tell them to parrot. It'll be shocking if their next home console out sells the Wii U.

 

[bighugeguns]

100%. I buy a giant number of titles. I can't physically play them all.

The bundle is on sale on Xbox now. Went ahead and picked it up, $12.

T TomasSala are you able to tell us anything about Play Anywhere? I noticed Bulwark is and just wanted to thank you for that. I was just wondering if its extra work or relatively easy to do that.

People like Pete still believe that games media and shilling is a good thing, that basic dickheads high fiving each other on bluesky and reddit matters, things have changed so much ever since the marketing end of gaming went insane with socio-politics, it's anti marketing now. Gamepass is a new and valid form of marketing in itself, it's very honest and upfront, play the game yourself and see if you like it, if your game does well, you'll have the attention of the mass, meaning you now have precious positive and organic momentum for your products going forward, you can only go up from there while everyone else burns in confused bad vibes.

Gamepass is a solid partial safety net / avenue / off-ramp instead of increasingly unreliable "traditional" forms of games marketing.

 

[Punished Miku]

People like Pete still believe that games media and shilling is a good thing, things have changed so much ever since the marketing end of gaming went insane with socio-politics, it's anti marketing now. Gamepass is a new and valid form of marketing in itself, it's very honest and upfront, play the game yourself and see if you like it, if your game does well, you'll have the attention of the mass, meaning you now have positive and organic momentum, you can only go up from there while everyone else burns in bad vibes.

Yeah, I will never truly understand the negativity. If it was replacing the ability to buy titles like Nintendo Online does, yes I get it. But its not doing that. It's one option out of many, and its a small option on consoles and PC. It is definitely a marketing boost and a safety net for the games that choose to participate, and it is optional.

Pete even talks about low attention span for younger generations. Monster Hunter devs are talking about price and hardware barriers for young people. Cloud and GP are the only attempts to grow the market by giving an actual solution. If you're a kid and can't afford a $800 console and $80 games, maybe they can get you to try GP a couple times a year and you can at least grow an interest in gaming from there. When I was a kid I had no choice but to rent most games from Blockbuster. Now I usually spend hundreds a month as an adult.

GP didnt explode in growth like MS hoped but it was still an honest attempt to address real issues with expensive hardware, software, and discoverability. The demonization is so over the top. Its like these execs actually think the industry will always be the same, when its clearly undergoing massive tech, demographic and economic shifts.

 

[bighugeguns]

Yeah, I will never truly understand the negativity. If it was replacing the ability to buy titles like Nintendo Online does, yes I get it. But its not doing that. It's one option out of many, and its a small option on consoles and PC. It is definitely a marketing boost and a safety net for the games that choose to participate, and it is optional.

Pete even talks about low attention span for younger generations. Monster Hunter devs are talking about price and hardware barriers for young people. Cloud and GP are the only attempts to grow the market by giving an actual solution. If you're a kid and can't afford a $800 console and $80 games, maybe they can get you to try GP a couple times a year and you can at least grow an interest in gaming from there. When I was a kid I had no choice but to rent most games from Blockbuster. Now I usually spend hundreds a month as an adult.

GP didnt explode in growth like MS hoped but it was still an honest attempt to address real issues with expensive hardware, software, and discoverability. The demonization is so over the top. Its like these execs actually think the industry will always be the same, when its clearly undergoing massive tech, demographic and economic shifts.

I'll just be blunt, it very directly fucks with grifters (negatively), hence the pushback. Bullshit is easier than merit. A revolving demo service is the enemy of the dishonest. The dishonest are some loud motherfuckers.

Raw merit (unreliably rare) will still beat Gamepass. Raw merit that still lists on Gamepass are made up of very clever people who gets it.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Pete Hines should start his own studio and suck the best ex-Bethesda devs into it before Microsoft shuts them down.

 

[Heisenberg007]

 

[Det]

Only 3 execs have ever been fired from MS games. Bonnie Ross, Mike "Prize Picks" Ybarra, and this guy.

 

[Det]

Good riddance, filthy model.

Do you know what will happen to the future of GamePass?
AI-generated games that you pretend to play while using your phone

Netflix and the second screen phenomenon

Programme makers claim they're being asked to cater for distracted viewers

theweek.com

Netflix and the second screen phenomenon

Programme makers claim they're being asked to cater for distracted viewers

===============

The WHAM, which we've named "Muse," is a generative AI model of a video game that can generate game visuals, controller actions, or both.

Advancing game ideation with Muse: the first World and Human Action Model (WHAM)

Today Nature published Microsoft’s research detailing our WHAM, an AI model that generates video game visuals & controller actions. We are releasing the model weights, sample data, & WHAM Demonstrator on Azure AI Foundry, enabling researchers to build on the work.

www.microsoft.com

===========

The happy fool "laughing"
Games created by AI so you can watch the game "play" like you would watch someone livestream.

It's one thing for someone to play a live game and for you to watch.
It's quite another to create games, created specifically for this purpose, using AI to "play" while you watch them on your phone.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Good riddance, filthy model.

Do you know what will happen to the future of GamePass?
AI-generated games that you pretend to play while using your phone

Netflix and the second screen phenomenon

Programme makers claim they're being asked to cater for distracted viewers

theweek.com

Netflix and the second screen phenomenon

Programme makers claim they're being asked to cater for distracted viewers

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The WHAM, which we've named "Muse," is a generative AI model of a video game that can generate game visuals, controller actions, or both.

Advancing game ideation with Muse: the first World and Human Action Model (WHAM)

Today Nature published Microsoft’s research detailing our WHAM, an AI model that generates video game visuals & controller actions. We are releasing the model weights, sample data, & WHAM Demonstrator on Azure AI Foundry, enabling researchers to build on the work.

www.microsoft.com

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The happy fool "laughing"
Games created by AI so you can watch the game "play" like you would watch someone livestream.

It's one thing for someone to play a live game and for you to watch.
It's quite another to create games, created specifically for this purpose, using AI to "play" while you watch them on your phone.

Types of games GamePass was supposed to usher in:

Mobile game ports
Trash filler rushed out
Episodic games to keep people coming back
GamePass exclusive games
"AI generated games you pretend to play while using your phone"

Can we at least make it to even one of the other game types we were supposed to be flooded with before we start making up new types of games GamePass is supposed to usher in?

 

[Dane]

Yeah, I will never truly understand the negativity. If it was replacing the ability to buy titles like Nintendo Online does, yes I get it. But its not doing that. It's one option out of many, and its a small option on consoles and PC. It is definitely a marketing boost and a safety net for the games that choose to participate, and it is optional.

Pete even talks about low attention span for younger generations. Monster Hunter devs are talking about price and hardware barriers for young people. Cloud and GP are the only attempts to grow the market by giving an actual solution. If you're a kid and can't afford a $800 console and $80 games, maybe they can get you to try GP a couple times a year and you can at least grow an interest in gaming from there. When I was a kid I had no choice but to rent most games from Blockbuster. Now I usually spend hundreds a month as an adult.

GP didnt explode in growth like MS hoped but it was still an honest attempt to address real issues with expensive hardware, software, and discoverability. The demonization is so over the top. Its like these execs actually think the industry will always be the same, when its clearly undergoing massive tech, demographic and economic shifts.

Because people will do whatever shit they can to goalpost their intentions, I've seen people in the other place saying that Silksong should be more than 20 dollars and the only thing I could conclude in all that shitstorm of the delays, polygon whinning over no review codes and the price, is that they wanted the game to sell less in order to give space to other indies, it isn't Team Cherry fault that they decided to give that price, that they prioritized Hollow Knight kickstarter backers (Silksong was intended as an extra mode goal), and that they had set a final release date in two weeks advance.

People who complain about Roblox, Genshin and others as games who are taking the money that should go towards "real ones" doesn't understand that they have major design points that puts them on a close or equal step to premium games, the former is a massive platform for all kinds of games you can imagine built on it, just like Minecraft, the latter has major production values that is killing the japanese gacha games who never got past the five minute daily design. For all the whinning, why not just give yer kids a gamepass subscription so they access to a catalogue of "real games"?

 

[jm89]

 

[ChorizoPicozo]