Game Pass players jump in for 5 minutes and then drop out - MachineGames
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
MacReady13
Member
The fuck would you like video games to be worth? And how many are $80? So far, 1 game in total has hit that price point. Hundreds of devs spending countless hours and games costing hundreds of millions of dollars so fucking nerds can geek out over better hair on a character means prices will always go up. But who cares... Let the multi billion/trillion dollar corporation take a loss to give you these games for a monthly fee so we can TRY flush out the competition so we have a monopoly on the video games industry (thank fuck SO FAR that hasn't happened).
ReBurn
Gold Member
Why? With quick resume you really only see that stuff once.STICKY THIS IN THE OP!
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
So this is really about trashing GP to protect $80 games from having any competition. Thats seriously pathetic. Not even trying to win in a market competition, but just crying about it because someone wants to offer a good deal. They're not even growing or threatening anything and still this many tears because $80 games have to compete.
You guys are delusional and just repeat your GP hate like a religion. Has nothing to do with reality. There's not a single GP exclusive game. Not a single time has Xbox been in the lead, let alone a monopoly. This is absurd.
I dont think any game is worth $80.
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Ashamam
Member
Ah but Balatro plus is on Arcade!
MacReady13
Member
Xbox held a lead during the 360 era (not counting the kiddie Wii) and that was the best for gaming. It forced Sony to really try innovate and change what they were doing. Now it's all about renting games and no ownership.
As for justifying $80 games, I'm not doing that at all but fuck me drunk, these games are getting more expensive to develop. Who in their right mind would make a $300 million game and want to release it day 1 on gamepass when they can get sales elsewhere (like Microsoft is doing with PC and Playstation releases day 1 now). Just think about it for a moment- I know you will have to spend your hard earned for a game but if you want gaming industry to thrive and survive, it won't do that by NOT buying games and only renting them.
But you do you. You can't justify spending big money on a game- wait for a sale or BUY PHYSICAL. ANY sales help the devs over having a game being played "for free" on a rental service.
Punished Miku
Gaslighter Pro: 16.7 Fireflops
I'm 99% sure I buy a lot more games than you do. I've explained this here for years but that reality never seems to penatrate the religious barrier surrounding GP haters.
Companies are not owed a sale. Make something people want to buy, or retire. Its not consumers job to sabotage any competition to a stale, inefficient, overly expensive and poorly run AAA gaming industry to protect it. They have to compete in reality or close up shop. A lot of people here are delusional about the amount of influence they have. Trends with AAA gaming, hardware pricing, younger gamers, physical games, these are all broad international trends that will happen anyway regardless of what the 40 year olds on here want.
And I do wonder why you won't defend $80 games. Ironically no one does. MS got a ton of hate for Outer Worlds 2 pricing until they devalued it. But yet the GP boogeyman is devaluing. But pin someone down and they want devaluing, hate $80 games and they barely buy anything day 1. But they still feel the need to hate GP for devaluing while game prices just go up, but they can't even defend a price they like. None of it is totally rational.
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AGRacing
Member
Gaf is full of guys that will just blow with the wind on whatever Sony or Microsoft is doing.
But outside our sphere …
There does exist a non company loyalist "whale" customer who used to buy 10+ games annually and kept his library. Now he owns nothing and paid a subscription fee instead. He's the guy who now plays games for 5 minutes and walks away and he used to be among your best customers. I don't think he's happy.
And the semi-serious "a few games a year" guy has had the price of each game go up massively, he doesn't feel like he's able to get any value out of the subscription so he's either spending less today or spending the same on fewer games and is less happy about it.
And the Wii casual folks every company was chasing in 2008 is just gone. They own a Switch 1 right now. He doesn't even want to think about spending the cash for a new console and then a subscription… he sees the prices of games on the shelf and says "uh no thanks". This guy is the reason PS5 will NEVER outsell PS4. He wishes PS2 era Sony was still around.
I empathize with all 3 of them.
I'd say the hobby is headed in the wrong direction, yeah.
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awwr999999
Member
Modern platforms need to be curated.
Even with a solid no-questions asked 2hr return policy in place, selling users "bad games" makes platforms look bad and ties negative UX to a platform.
dragonyeuw
Member
That's why Gamepass never really landed with me. I'd rather buy Silksong day one for $20 than give that to MS for a wall of games I end up sampling like an all you can eat buffet. Generally, that's not the way I want to consume video games.
MacReady13
Member
I honestly don't know what else to say.
Firstly, I doubt you buy more games than me but maybe you do. I own over 700 Xbox games. Over 800 Playstation games and well over 100 games for Switch and Switch 2. And around 500 on Steam and rising rapidly. Not too sure if that's heaps but I do love this hobby and I love to support devs for spending their time making games. I don't want this business devalued by effectively giving games away for nothing and having people spend 5 mins on a game before giving up cause they didn't purchase the game. That's pathetic and not a way that ANY dev would want their games played. They'd also FAR prefer sales over engagement numbers when engagement numbers are for 5 minutes...
Sounds like your stupidly throwing away money…
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Snark aside, Arcade started out with great games like Fantasian and a promise of a normal gaming titles. It ended up with basically mobile f2p schlock with mtx taken out for an Arcade fee. I check it only because it's a part of Apple One.
Kacho
Gold Member
By subbing to Game Pass, absolutely. Totally unnecessary service.
Knucklepux
Member
You're also posting here on Neogaf, a gaming forum. You don't represent even a fraction of gamers, much less Gamepass users. Let's not use anecdotal evidence vs. the actual developer who sees the data lol
Starbuck2907
Member
This might be referring to Gamepass cloud players. I often "sample" a game over the gamepass cloud to see if it is worth an install. I'm f it is, I exit the cloud stream and install it.
Gambit2483
Member
Bro, calm down. I'm just explaining how devaluing games and turning them into "disposable experiences" with a subscription service is a slippery slope for this industry.
It works for mobile Because those games ARE (mostly) cheap, disposable experiences, and have development budgets as such, But You can't have an industry that makes $200M+ game budgets where ALL THREE platforms are heavily favoring a subscription service where actual sales plummet as the market no longer sees $60, $50 or even $40 as "worth it". You would need to have insanely high subscriprion numbers and an ever increasing subscription price or The industry would likely eventually collapse
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UltimaKilo
Gold Member
I do that with GamePass: game is garbage? I drop out.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
Game Pass was the gamble that killed Xbox and the legacy Phil wanted to build; instead, it exposed him as the conman he had always been.
Isn't it crazy that now all the green rats on Twitter are using Helldivers 2 as proof that Xbox players buy games and that there is business to be made on Xbox… when a game doesn't come to Game Pass?.. bruh, that fanbase is so diluted and desperate.
they are even posting how much they are playing the game.
Isn't it crazy that now all the green rats on Twitter are using Helldivers 2 as proof that Xbox players buy games and that there is business to be made on Xbox… when a game doesn't come to Game Pass?.. bruh, that fanbase is so diluted and desperate.
they are even posting how much they are playing the game.
Fess
Member
Sales numbers doesn't say anything about play time, global achievement stats on Steam can show 50% on the first achievement.
And no surprise here, I have 100+ games on Steam I haven't even installed.
In the end 5 minutes is better than 0 minutes. They got people interested enough to install and click start. Good job!
Next obstacle to overcome is to get people to not go "nah" and close it down during a tutorial.
Far too many devs stumble here. They should look more at Super Metroid, make the start exciting, get people hooked, THEN slow it down. Don't start with a boring slow and long tutorial with instruction signs everywhere which makes the game seem easy and dumbed down like it's made for a 5 year old.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
ChorizoPicozo
Member
The difference is… when people buy a game, the transaction is already done. In fact, if someone buys a game, the likelihood of sticking with it is stronger; the consumer was interested enough to spend money on it in the first place.
Gaming Subscription Services are a Young Person’s… Game
The Gist: People who subscribe to video game rental services are younger, less engaged gamers. In a crowded marketplace, the future of the subscription model is somewhat uncertain.
civicscience.com
Game Pass Isn’t Changing How Xbox Players Play But It’s Hurting Big Game Sales, New Study Claims
According to a new study by industry analytics firm Newzoo, the service might not be changing player habits at all… and could actually be cannibalizing major game sales.
clawsomegamer.com
And to be honest, you don't even need a study... It's common sense.
Playing a game for 5 minutes on Game Pass is the opposite of an advantage; it can be a liability for everyone involved: Gamers, Devs, and the service itself.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Of course.
No barriers to entry and exit would lead to this and the meaningless claim of "X million players!"
No barriers to entry and exit would lead to this and the meaningless claim of "X million players!"
Buggy Loop
Gold Member
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
If you make a good game people want to play and they'll follow.
Look at all the F2P games. That's basically not far off from sub plan games. Fortnite is the posterboy for people trying it and sticking around. Then you got Apex, COD Warzone, Roblox, DOTA, PoE, Marvel Rivals. Even Sims 4 is F2P. And so is PUBG (I thought you had to pay for that game, but I guess they made it F2P at some point).
I dont see gamers playing for 5 minutes and bailing. Make a good game that hook in gamers and they'll stick with it.
The problem is a lot of F2P/GAAS/MP games get the action going right away, so they got an advantage to keep players playing. SP kind of games, you might have to slog through hours worth of boring story and shitty action before it's fun. And there is a high likelihood of dreaded unskippable cut scenes with equally lousy script and VA. Who wants to sit through that? In most MP/GAAS games, you can be a level 1 noob with zero idea whats going on and zero unlocked gear etc... But right away you jump in and play like an experienced gamer whose been playing all year.
That's probably a reason why shooters and sports games are played so much. They cut to the chase and it's immediately pure gameplay. Pick a team or loadout. Enter match. No filler, cut scenes or handholding.
Look at all the F2P games. That's basically not far off from sub plan games. Fortnite is the posterboy for people trying it and sticking around. Then you got Apex, COD Warzone, Roblox, DOTA, PoE, Marvel Rivals. Even Sims 4 is F2P. And so is PUBG (I thought you had to pay for that game, but I guess they made it F2P at some point).
I dont see gamers playing for 5 minutes and bailing. Make a good game that hook in gamers and they'll stick with it.
The problem is a lot of F2P/GAAS/MP games get the action going right away, so they got an advantage to keep players playing. SP kind of games, you might have to slog through hours worth of boring story and shitty action before it's fun. And there is a high likelihood of dreaded unskippable cut scenes with equally lousy script and VA. Who wants to sit through that? In most MP/GAAS games, you can be a level 1 noob with zero idea whats going on and zero unlocked gear etc... But right away you jump in and play like an experienced gamer whose been playing all year.
That's probably a reason why shooters and sports games are played so much. They cut to the chase and it's immediately pure gameplay. Pick a team or loadout. Enter match. No filler, cut scenes or handholding.
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jm89
Member
Kokoloko85
Member
When they drop out, does that mean they go buy the game?... The increase in game sales like Phil Spencer and his media said 
jm89
Member
Even better. They are part of the coveted engagement metric.When they drop out, does that mean they go buy the game?... The increase in game sales like Phil Spencer and his media said
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nemiroff
Member
That's not just Gamepass (though I'm sure GP makes people do it even more). Data shows people are terrible at retention.
Tbh, it sounds like most of the games in my library... I keep buying and NOT playing, except a few games that get all the hours.
Anyway Indiana Jones didn't hold my attention.
Tbh, it sounds like most of the games in my library... I keep buying and NOT playing, except a few games that get all the hours.
Anyway Indiana Jones didn't hold my attention.
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Kenneth Haight
Gold Member
Yep, the subscription service for me doesn't work in games. I prefer to pay and own my content and be able to play it any time I want.
vaibhavpisal
Member
Gamepass for me works only if I take it seriously.
It needs to be the main platform.
When I do that, its awesome. IMO better than what I experience elsewhere.
No ownership so drop the game if it doesn't click. If I get drawn into the game, they are effortless to play and finish.
It needs to be the main platform.
When I do that, its awesome. IMO better than what I experience elsewhere.
No ownership so drop the game if it doesn't click. If I get drawn into the game, they are effortless to play and finish.
kiphalfton
Member
So people actually commit time to doing anything anymore?
Sometimes games made for consumption and subscription services or too many options can result in this type of behaviour. Anyone surprised really? you shouldn't be. Hence changing metrics to players instead of sales or even hours spent playing.
The more these services grow the worse games will become as they become worthless fodder with little value.
If PSN wasn't tied to so many on-line games and features, it would be worthless to many.
The more these services grow the worse games will become as they become worthless fodder with little value.
If PSN wasn't tied to so many on-line games and features, it would be worthless to many.
xrnzaaas
Member
It would be actually weird in Indy's case as the prologue recreates an iconic scene from the movie and it's also quite compact, not wasting anyone's time. Many people may not like the slower, puzzle-filled and immersive sim lite gameplay of the main part of the game, but I don't think they've fucked up with the beginning to get people hooked.
geary
Member
Bailing out in the first 5 minutes has more to do with ADHD and TikTok mentality than the game. I mean, what you can gather from the game in the first 5 minutes? In the first 1-2 hours out of 50-60 hours?
SilentSpecter
Member
Kinda sad. Personally, I finish every game I start, but before that I always check multiple times if it's worth it - watch some gameplay and read Steam reviews. Same with Game Pass - I don't sub ahead of time, only when there's something that really interests me. Love this model, saved me a ton of money. This year I've already beaten 22 games, 14 of them from Game Pass. 
Ellis
Member
Considering the large difference between userbases, they're probably making more money from GP subs than what they would selling them traditionally on Xbox, as the majority will be buying on PS5.
Without GP, I can't see even their main mascot games like Gears selling much on the platform. Certainly not close to the numbers they will do on Playstation or Switch. Especially as what's left of the userbase will no doubt leave the platform without GP.
That would be a tough realisation for fans. Seeing mainly traditional Xbox games selling four or five times more on non Xbox consoles. Probably why we haven't seen Halo come over yet.
It is what it is though.
I'm more than happy to buy good games. If I put them down after five minutes, that's my problem. I know I'm playing my part in keeping the industry healthy by making the purchase in the first place. I've done it for 30 something years, and will continue to do so as long as I am able to.
Without GP, I can't see even their main mascot games like Gears selling much on the platform. Certainly not close to the numbers they will do on Playstation or Switch. Especially as what's left of the userbase will no doubt leave the platform without GP.
That would be a tough realisation for fans. Seeing mainly traditional Xbox games selling four or five times more on non Xbox consoles. Probably why we haven't seen Halo come over yet.
It is what it is though.
I'm more than happy to buy good games. If I put them down after five minutes, that's my problem. I know I'm playing my part in keeping the industry healthy by making the purchase in the first place. I've done it for 30 something years, and will continue to do so as long as I am able to.
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