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[KarishBHR]

First off... this thread, if all goes according to plan, should be stickied.

Ok, so whats the point of this thread?

This thread is dedicated to us who play games for more then just fun, for those of us who like to look at games as an artform, as the cinema of the future. Sadly, the majority of the games out there are no "The Godfather", "Citizen Kane", or "Vertigo" (all movies that I think defined cinema as an art), but some do exist. Please remember this is not a place to post your "favorite game", put that somewhere else please.

The following are in my opinion games that help legitamize gaming:

-E.V.O.
-LoZ: Link to the Past
-Final Fantasy VII
-NFL 2k
-Call of Duty

Thats a pretty short list considering Ive been seriously gaming since I was 3... hope everyone realizes what Im trying to accomplish and will help myself as well as others gain a better appreciation of gaming... the artform

 

[fse]

Pilotwings 64 and Super Mario 64.

 

[sc0la]

Yoshi's Island

Tetris

Half-Life

 

[Wario64]

Rez

 

[Justin Bailey]

Mario 3
Chrono Trigger
ICO
Add another vote for Tetris

 

[Scalemail Ted]

Mario 3
Chrono Trigger
ICO
Add another vote for Tetris

Man, with the screen name, Justin Bailey, I really expected Metroid on your list too.

 

[Soul4ger]

Nothing from Electronics Arts. Ever.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

I'd say:

Mario 3
Yoshi's Island
ICO
ZOE2

 

[AeroGod]

1. Anachronox

I say this because its not actually fun to play. The gameplay is really quite boring. However, its a richly detailed Sci-Fi setting. Really a beautiful game, even by todays standards you can appreciate the design. Its not technically good beacuse its using an old Quake 3(?) engine but still designed well. Secondly, the characters arnt just some throw away RPG cliche. They are likeable and really interesting and the very humorous epic story only helps this. The dialog, IMO, has yet to be beaten.

2. Mafia

Mafia is a personal favorite of mine. Its like playing a movie, moreso then any game ive ever played. The story, characters, progression and ending just scream "Hollywood". And not shitty Hollywood, the good academy ward winning Hollywood. Mafia is a fantastic game and a great experience.

 

[Justin Bailey]

Man, with the screen name, Justin Bailey, I really expected Metroid on your list too.

Shit I forgot, chalk one up for Super Metroid. The funny thing is I just got finished playing that, too. Easily one of the best soundtracks ever made.

 

[Stryder]

Katamari Damacy
ICO
Rez
Soul Calibur

 

[AtomicShroom]

Super Metroid.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Halo
Dragon Force
Panzer Dragoon Saga

 

[TekunoRobby]

Cubivore!

Too bad no one cares about it. I mean it's some pretty insightful gameplay on animalistic behavior.

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Forgot the mention Viewtiful Joe.

 

[Mandark]

1) It's not "legitamize," it's "legitimize."

2) It shouldn't even be "legitimize." The usage is common enough now that it's a word, but this is a result of the -ize monster. Legitimate works as a transitive verb to do the same job.

3) Medium. Singular.

4) Gamers need to stop tripping over themselves to be the new Cahiers du Cinema. There's discussion of craft, and of the techniques of interactive narratives, then there's a bunch of kids saying vague things about an "artform" so they can feel better about their hobby.

 

[BeOnEdge]

5) twizzlers are fabulous.

 

[Matlock]

Psi-Ops

 

[MC Safety]

BloodRayne and BloodRayne 2.

Also: Furious Karting.

 

[impirius]

I was about to post something, but I guess I'd better go and write a senior thesis on the significance of the film grain in the second-to-last cutaway of Un Chien Andalou so that I'll be qualified

 

[bobbyconover]

And with that, the plan has been fully realized and the thread has been "legitamized." Bring on the sticky!

 

[rastex]

In seriousness...

Panzer Dragoon Orta - for it's constantly varying and super-exotic designs that range from lush organic greens to planar metals. A very absorbing experience for the visuals alone.

Shenmue- captures better than any games the mundaneness of everyday life for better or worse. The realization of a richly detailed world that transports the player to another time and place very effectively (GTAVC may also fit this description).

Star Wars: KOTOR - A game that makes you feel good/bad about your actions, a very impressive achievement in evoking emotions in the user.

Gran Turisimo - as much a car encyclopedia as it is a game.

MGS - Very movie-like in presentation with a mind-boggling (complex, or stupid YOU decide) story that keeps the user guessing until long after they complete the game.

 

[ScientificNinja]

Street Fighter 2
Final Fight
Ghost 'n Goblins
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Quake
Tobal 2
Virtua Fighter 3
Vagrant Story
Ico
Tetris

 

[Tabris]

Final Fantasy VII, Xenogears and ICO.

 

[Catapult Beetle]

The Longest Journey

 

[dog$]

Sadly, the majority of the games out there are no "The Godfather", "Citizen Kane", or "Vertigo"

-Final Fantasy VII
-NFL 2k

You'll have to provide a lot of justification if you're insisting this isn't a "post your favorite game" thread by you using a contrite, horrible looking and sounding RPG and a 5 year old sport game as some of your examples.

 

[KarishBHR]

You'll have to provide a lot of justification if you're insisting this isn't a "post your favorite game" thread by you using a contrite, horrible looking and sounding RPG and a 5 year old sport game as some of your examples.

I posted NFL2k because it brought sports gaming into the realistic realm.... I also put FFVII in there because I consider that the first next-gen title... the one that lead the way to better graphics, story, and gameplay

 

[Mr. Lemming]

Pong

I'm completely serious.

 

[xsarien]

You'll have to provide a lot of justification if you're insisting this isn't a "post your favorite game" thread by you using a contrite, horrible looking and sounding RPG and a 5 year old sport game as some of your examples.

Wording aside, I agree with the sentiment. If you're pulling out the "Citizen Kane" card in this comparison, you have to think very carefully about the question you're putting on the table. What games have made serious, bonafide contributions to gaming? What games have used the medium in exclusive ways? What is their cultural impact? Have they become so pervasive in our culture that the characters they introduced are as popular as more traditional icons?

You're really looking for watersheds.

For example:
I'd put Mario 64 and Final Fantasy VII on equal ground. Both of the games introduced their respective genres to the "next generation." Nintendo all but invented the 3D platformer, and did it well; Square turned an already popular genre and series into a mini-epic with, at the time, unprecedented graphics and maintained familiar and loved gameplay. Halo, as much as I personally don't like the game, proved to the world that a first-person shooter can live on a console without sucking (apparently.) Gran Turismo eschewed arcade physics for realism, not that it was the first, but it was arguably the best. And don't forget Resident Evil, which combined survival games and horror games in a nice, tight little package.

Looking back, I don't think anyone's going to argue with Pong being on the list, the game is pretty much responsible for the modern arcade. Space Invaders continued that momentum. Return to Castle Wolfenstein brought the world (for better or for worse) the first-person shooter; and speaking of The Jazz Singer, King's Quest IV was the first PC game (according to Sierra) to take full advantage of sound cards. Want the Wizard of Oz of gaming? An argument can be made for King's Quest I (not to the exclusion of others, of course), which was written to "show off" the color and overall graphic capabilities of IBM's PCJr.

In fact, you're probably going to find much more "important" games the further back you go. And by "further back," I mean beyond 4-5 years.

 

[KarishBHR]

Wording aside, I agree with the sentiment. If you're pulling out the "Citizen Kane" card in this comparison, you have to think very carefully about the question you're putting on the table. What games have made serious, bonafide contributions to gaming? What games have used the medium in exclusive ways? What is their cultural impact? Have they become so pervasive in our culture that the characters they introduced are as popular as more traditional icons?

I agree... you dont think FFVII had that impact?

NFL2k IMO is like the Jazz Singer... football games were there (as were movies) but NFL2k made them FOOTBALL (like the Jazz Singer gave movies life)

 

[User 406]

Nothing from Electronics Arts. Ever.

Fuck you.

 

[Duck of Death]

This is a difficult topic to consider. There certainly is an argument that games are an art form. It is also interesting to note that some of the history of gaming compares well to the history of comic books and films as they became considered art forms.

I won't comment on the early history of video games. Early gaming can be looked at as an "attraction," much like the first decade of film was received. One could say that the inclusion of a narrative in later games was a significant step in the growth of games as an art form, but it is unfair and untrue to strictly say that narratives make something an art.

Someone with more knowledge of video games ought to examine the development of the craft and technique of video game design. After the "primitive" years of gaming, what sort of rules and formal techniques did video game designers begin to use? And what sort of counter-movements (if any) arose from these developing formal "rules?" This could yield a compelling study of the art, and hopefully someone with extensive knowledge of video games can help here.

This becomes even more difficult when one considers the differences between PC and console gaming. In terms of artistic merit I would suggest that PC developers have been ahead of console developers, but how can we formulate rules of form with this difference?

Again, these issues are someone in the industry would be more qualified to expand upon and answer. As for myself I am attracted to the cinematic qualities of a game. That's just who I am, so I am not a fair judge of the medium as a whole. Because of this a few of my favorite games are RPG's for the PC, who (along with point-and-click adventures) have made the most strides in advancing the narratives of the medium. There is aesthetic potential in games, and there are two games that I consider to be achievements in this sense.

Fallout

This is my favorite game. It does everything right and is a complete aesthetic experience. It has a unique and compelling visual and aural styles, a strong narrative, and is simply fun to play. If there was ever a game that could take video game films to a respectable level, it is this one. It also took gaming to a respectable level for myself.


Planescape: Torment

This might be the most beautifully written and visually realized game I have ever played. The fault of the game itself might be that the narrative is so well-done that it distracts from the mechanics of the game. Does the game actually play well? I can't remember, I was so engrossed in the story.

And that's enough of my whacky philosophical and analytical rambling. Now, to bring myself down to earth:

Dead or Alive: Extreme Beach Volleyball

I like boobs.

 

[way more]

Will Wright Sim games.

One of the MMORPG.

 

[Father_Brain]

I think the person who posted the topic meant "legitimatize the medium."

 

[Alex Anderson]

I don't think video games will ever be seen as an "artform" as such except to a very limited number of people. But there have been games that have led to wider acceptance and exposure for the medium. These are the games I'm going to focus on.

Going back to the 80's, I think games like Pac-Man, Donkey Kong, and after them on the Nintendo, Super Mario Bros. went a long way toward showing that games not about violence and death could succeed and be very popular.

I don't think any games in the SNES/Genesis era had much effect on the way games were perceived by the general public, at least not positively. Remember the whole fuss by politicians over games like Mortal Kombat and in the introduction of the ESRB.

On the PC, Doom was extremely influential. Who hasn't played Doom?

For better or worse, hits on the PlayStation like Final Fantasy VII and Metal Gear Solid were insanely popular largely due their cinematic qualities.

More recently, the Madden and GTA series have attracted older players and kept the interest of those who grew up with video games.

The Sims on PC have attracted a lot more female gamers.

Realistically, I don't think video games are ever going to be seen as "art" in the way that music and films are.

 

[KarishBHR]

bumpo

 

[rastex]

Thanks for the bump, I thought of a few others

Breakdown - incredible sense of immersion. A unique world that despite some EXTREME repetition overall turns out to be deep and interesting.

sports games - how many times has Madden been right about the Superbowl? People are offered the ability to be the players they idolize, create the plays they wish the real coaches would run, and manage the team the way they see fit.

Tribes/Starcraft/CS - All these games effected a dedicated community that elevated these games to a new field of competition where prizes and money could be won. Introduction of the first sponsored gamers.

 

[White Man]

Radiant Silvergun